Is It Possible?
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Is It Possible?
Our marriage counselor gave us some homework last week and I was just writing in preparation for our meeting with her on Wednesday and it got me thinking - is it even possible to have a relationship with emotionally and mentally unhealthy and abusive people and not be effected by them?
Last Thursday night RAH took a call from his sister (she's an active, in denial, know it all alcoholic who has been drinking to excess for 30+ years now) because she was calling him multiple times a day and he wanted her to just stop calling him so much so he answered. She belittled rehab and AA and basically everything RAH is doing because none of it "works" for her. At the end of their call she told RAH that he needs to call their mom more because she's going to die someday and it would make their mom really happy to hear from RAH more (like everyday).
The next morning, RAH was basically a jerk to me and immediately apologized but it was a big WTF. On Friday he went to work and to a good evening AA meeting and made plans to meet with a potential sponsor. That evening he came home and told me about the previous' night's call with his sister. I went "ah-ha!" but didn't say anything to him about it. He's still semi in denial about the degree of screwed up-ness of his FOO. It's not my place to shake him out of that denial or point it out to him. If he wants to believe that rainbows shine out of their butts that's his prerogative. However, when reality hits and they abuse the **** out of him I will not tolerate being his emotional dumping ground. And truly, he only "acts out" (for lack of a better term, it's really just an out of the blue, random a-hole episode) after he's been interacting with or jumping through hoops for his FOO. Everything else here is pretty darn manageable until RAH inserts his family into his life and via him into my life. I am no contact with those fools and for good reason.
So I guess, what I'm wondering, is that if it is even possible for RAH to have a relationship with people who are still very sick and who have no intention of ever entering recovery. Can he actually have a phone call with them and not be effected?
For me, that answer is no. My mom's text messages and voicemails trigger me. But just because I cannot accept a really sick, abusive person into my life doesn't meant that others have not done it successfully.
* And I'm totally aware that I'm all over his side of the street on this. The WHY isn't important as it pertains to his behavior towards me but I have a hard time not crossing over to his side of the street. Which is where the basis of this thread is planted.
Last Thursday night RAH took a call from his sister (she's an active, in denial, know it all alcoholic who has been drinking to excess for 30+ years now) because she was calling him multiple times a day and he wanted her to just stop calling him so much so he answered. She belittled rehab and AA and basically everything RAH is doing because none of it "works" for her. At the end of their call she told RAH that he needs to call their mom more because she's going to die someday and it would make their mom really happy to hear from RAH more (like everyday).
The next morning, RAH was basically a jerk to me and immediately apologized but it was a big WTF. On Friday he went to work and to a good evening AA meeting and made plans to meet with a potential sponsor. That evening he came home and told me about the previous' night's call with his sister. I went "ah-ha!" but didn't say anything to him about it. He's still semi in denial about the degree of screwed up-ness of his FOO. It's not my place to shake him out of that denial or point it out to him. If he wants to believe that rainbows shine out of their butts that's his prerogative. However, when reality hits and they abuse the **** out of him I will not tolerate being his emotional dumping ground. And truly, he only "acts out" (for lack of a better term, it's really just an out of the blue, random a-hole episode) after he's been interacting with or jumping through hoops for his FOO. Everything else here is pretty darn manageable until RAH inserts his family into his life and via him into my life. I am no contact with those fools and for good reason.
So I guess, what I'm wondering, is that if it is even possible for RAH to have a relationship with people who are still very sick and who have no intention of ever entering recovery. Can he actually have a phone call with them and not be effected?
For me, that answer is no. My mom's text messages and voicemails trigger me. But just because I cannot accept a really sick, abusive person into my life doesn't meant that others have not done it successfully.
* And I'm totally aware that I'm all over his side of the street on this. The WHY isn't important as it pertains to his behavior towards me but I have a hard time not crossing over to his side of the street. Which is where the basis of this thread is planted.
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Originally Posted by Stung 
It's not my place to shake him out of that denial or point it out to him.
* And I'm totally aware that I'm all over his side of the street on this. The WHY isn't important as it pertains to his behavior towards me but I have a hard time not crossing over to his side of the street. Which is where the basis of this thread is planted.
You can guess how that worked out.
Sort of reminds me of me/us at times. Here we are with a Main Battle Tank of a Program. Even our group/platoon on the flanks. But we just feel compelled to go off and drive alone into the Poop.
Works out about the same as things did back then.
Stay in YOUR Lane, YOUR Program, YOUR Recovery.
Huah?
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My ah's parents are toxic. Extremely toxic. I have told ah I cannot be around them. I have explained the concept of "no contact" to him and told him it is his decision. I have made mine for me and our kids. That is the most, and the best, I can do.
He has chosen to contact them here and there, always with disastrous results. Recently he asked me about that "no contact" thing again. I explained it, and told him again that it is his choice, I have made mine for me and the kids. At the moment, he is not in contact at all with them.
You can only lead a horse to water...
He has chosen to contact them here and there, always with disastrous results. Recently he asked me about that "no contact" thing again. I explained it, and told him again that it is his choice, I have made mine for me and the kids. At the moment, he is not in contact at all with them.
You can only lead a horse to water...
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Stung..... I, personally, have never had in laws that were very likeable. So I understand that part.
This is what I had to learn: No matter what your personal feelings about them are---even if they really are a vile bunch of mouth breathers.....The bottom line is that he has to have the where-with-all to deal with him himself...... If he doesn't ?....well, there will never be a damn thing you can do about it.
Another slice of reality.....sigh.....
dandylion
This is what I had to learn: No matter what your personal feelings about them are---even if they really are a vile bunch of mouth breathers.....The bottom line is that he has to have the where-with-all to deal with him himself...... If he doesn't ?....well, there will never be a damn thing you can do about it.
Another slice of reality.....sigh.....
dandylion
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First there's Hammer with The Art of War:
Next comes MissFixit, The Queen of Brevity:
God, I love you people!!!!
Yeah. Sometimes I am reminded of the stories we studied (Army) of Rommel (German General) and Montgomery (British General) in North Africa WW2. The Germans had the upper hand, but the Brits observed a habit the German tank drivers had of driving over Camel Poop. It was supposed to be "Good Luck." So the Brits would plant landmines under the piles of Camel Poop.
No.
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My AH was taken away from his biological family when he was around 5 years old due to abuse. He was eventually adopted by one of his foster families. At times he and his biological siblings tried to have a relationship. It has been an on again off again situation for years. Well, about 2 years ago he decided to cut the strings. They live in drama and love to create drama that we don't have time for. About a month ago, one of his siblings called him (with a new phone number) and he answered it not knowing who it was. For about a week, he was a different person but he realized it. I am telling you all of this to say that in my husband's case, it is not healthy to have a relationship with those people. After all, he went to a 48 hour detox one time in 2002 and as soon as he got out he wanted to go see his sister. He was still visibly shaking from withdrawal and the first thing she did was pour him a drink!! It's best to just cut strings sometimes.
I wish you luck!!
I wish you luck!!
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he has to have the where-with-all to deal with him himself
I asked him if he was happy with these relationships with them and he told me no but they COULD change and they COULD find recovery. I very nicely and sincerely told him that they aren't even the slight bit interested in recovery today so if they were going to be just like this for the rest of their lives (very plausible) would he want these relationships - he said no.
I'm not sure if this is just a matter of boundaries or what. But they make him angry and I don't like him when he's angry. If he can't figure out a way to deal with them so that it doesn't bleed into my marriage and my life then I'm going to have to figure something out so that he's less a part of my life. Which truly sounds really dramatic but it's kind of not. I'm not feeling like compromising on much these days in terms of what I will or will not accept.
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Originally Posted by Stung
I guess I'm asking if some people do have the wherewithal to deal with toxic people. ,
Maybe since we can acknowledge this is a Spiritual Program -- we can substitute "Evil" for "Toxic?" Went you see the lineage and hierarchy of service and alignment, you will start to figure out they are the same thing.
Maybe let me jump to a Jebus reference just by way of example. HE could go toe-to-toe with Evil . . . but only after/as part of His Program -- 40 days fasting and praying, baptized, all that (see -- ANY Program will do, the only ones "lost" are the folks who will not humble themselves to even work one)
But once you have cleared your path, and stay close with the Angels . . . perhaps you, too.
I do not . . . .
).WHEN you have worked through YOUR Program, you will likely be granted access to Strength and Power you cannot yet imagine.
Else Steps 11 and 12 would have little meaning or purpose.
So do well on YOUR journey. As though your life and children's depend on it.
They do.
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Actually, I think Evil is a misplaced word here. My humble opinion is that I think Evil is GROSSLY overused and actually applies to a very select few like Hitler, rapists, murders, etc. MIL, as much as a dirty little troll that she is, is just toxic and really sick is more apropos - ditto for my mom. If MIL were to find recovery someday she would have one hell of a story. I think my mom might be a lost cause. She still calls me weekly threatening to have relationships with only my kids. Last week she was sorry for me because my life is too chaotic to have time to speak with her. She's sick.
Step 11 in conjunction with Step 2 have me at a checkmate.
P.S. Thank you for your previous poop story. Anytime poop can be worked into a conversation I appreciate it!
Step 11 in conjunction with Step 2 have me at a checkmate.
P.S. Thank you for your previous poop story. Anytime poop can be worked into a conversation I appreciate it!
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You asked if some people have the where-with-all to deal with toxic people...?
The way I view it is that we all come into contact with toxic people in our lives--sooner or later. So we all deal with it (for better or not). It looks like it is a matter of how much one protects one's self. I think of those people like a rattlesnake. So...self protection is the main goal. As opposed to interacting with it or hanging out with it or engaging with it. Respecting--first of all that it will kill you without regret.
Survival would dictate that leaving the rattlesnake's area completely is the most effective move. Barring completely leaving...STAYING OUT OF STRIKING DISTANCE is the next best move.
Harboring no illusions or false hope that the rattlesnake is ever going to change.
This reminds me of the example: Thinking that the bull is not going to gore you because you are a vegetarian.
Oh, well......
These are my thoughts on the subject....
I suspect the controling part of you wants to convince your husband to go no contact with his family (thus removing them as a trigger for his anger....therefore benefitting you).
Stung...you don't have or shouldn't have that much control over him. It is your job...as I see it..is to deal with your feelings and reactions to your husbands anger. It doesn't matter WHAT made him angry. It still all comes back to you as to how you handle yourself in this relationship (doesn't it always...LOL!).
dandylion
The way I view it is that we all come into contact with toxic people in our lives--sooner or later. So we all deal with it (for better or not). It looks like it is a matter of how much one protects one's self. I think of those people like a rattlesnake. So...self protection is the main goal. As opposed to interacting with it or hanging out with it or engaging with it. Respecting--first of all that it will kill you without regret.
Survival would dictate that leaving the rattlesnake's area completely is the most effective move. Barring completely leaving...STAYING OUT OF STRIKING DISTANCE is the next best move.
Harboring no illusions or false hope that the rattlesnake is ever going to change.
This reminds me of the example: Thinking that the bull is not going to gore you because you are a vegetarian.
Oh, well......
These are my thoughts on the subject....
I suspect the controling part of you wants to convince your husband to go no contact with his family (thus removing them as a trigger for his anger....therefore benefitting you).
Stung...you don't have or shouldn't have that much control over him. It is your job...as I see it..is to deal with your feelings and reactions to your husbands anger. It doesn't matter WHAT made him angry. It still all comes back to you as to how you handle yourself in this relationship (doesn't it always...LOL!).
dandylion
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Originally Posted by Stung
Actually, I think Evil is a misplaced word here. My humble opinion is that I think Evil is GROSSLY overused and actually applies to a very select few like Hitler, rapists, murders, etc. MIL, as much as a dirty little troll that she is, is just toxic and really sick is more apropos - ditto for my mom. If MIL were to find recovery someday she would have one hell of a story. I think my mom might be a lost cause. She still calls me weekly threatening to have relationships with only my kids. Last week she was sorry for me because my life is too chaotic to have time to speak with her. She's sick.
Step 11 in conjunction with Step 2 have me at a checkmate.
P.S. Thank you for your previous poop story. Anytime poop can be worked into a conversation I appreciate it!
Step 11 in conjunction with Step 2 have me at a checkmate.
P.S. Thank you for your previous poop story. Anytime poop can be worked into a conversation I appreciate it!
As for the rest -- no debate from me, either way -- Maybe for fun sometime -- Read "People of the Lie" and tell me what you think of it?
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It doesn't matter WHAT made him angry.
I do want to control the situation - I cannot tell you how many times I have thought about nabbing his phone in the middle of the night and blocking them all - none of them would know it had happened. But that would only make things bad for me and no one else because eventually someone would figure out what was going on. This situation really has zero to do with me. RAH is smart but he has a lot of emotional familial baggage to sort through in addition to his sobriety. He'll either choose them or choose himself. I hope he chooses himself sooner rather than later. Maybe I should just be more patient. But he needs to stop getting angry with me about other people not respecting his non-existent boundaries.
Control + RAH = bad. Wanting to do controlling things doesn't mean I'm going to do controlling things. My control ship (as it pertains to him) has sailed.
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Stung....if it wasn't his sister that made him angry it could be anything else in the world. It is his Anger that you have the issue with.
You wish you could make him that angry (as his sister does)....Really?!! Surely you cannot mean that...?!! You really want him to get angry with you...or ...... is it that his relationship with his sister gets your hair standing on end....."
Is it possible that you hate his sister and you project your feelings onto your husband (in this particular instance).
dandylion
You wish you could make him that angry (as his sister does)....Really?!! Surely you cannot mean that...?!! You really want him to get angry with you...or ...... is it that his relationship with his sister gets your hair standing on end....."
Is it possible that you hate his sister and you project your feelings onto your husband (in this particular instance).
dandylion
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Again, I agree but this is the instance that I'm dealing with. I can't make up hypotheticals to talk about in marriage counseling. This particular recent incident is regarding the previous phone call with his sister. Could have been anyone else but this time it was her.
I meant that somewhat sarcastically but I'm too much of a needs anticipator to really **** him off. When he was away at rehab I re-homed my dog (which he tried to claim was HIS dog) and that made him really angry too, but getting rid of the dog without any input from him is kind of a big thing and I don't make huge waves like that very often. And then I was even more pissed that he was pissed off at me to begin with. Our daughter almost died from anaphylactic shock while he was away at rehab and he was upset about the DOG?!
And I actually don't hate his sister. I hate his mother and I strongly dislike his father. His sister is a friendly alcoholic and she's been mostly nice to me. I don't like that she calls RAH while she's drunk but I think she might be drunk more than sober. IDK. I haven't spoken to any of his clan in more than a year now.
I meant that somewhat sarcastically but I'm too much of a needs anticipator to really **** him off. When he was away at rehab I re-homed my dog (which he tried to claim was HIS dog) and that made him really angry too, but getting rid of the dog without any input from him is kind of a big thing and I don't make huge waves like that very often. And then I was even more pissed that he was pissed off at me to begin with. Our daughter almost died from anaphylactic shock while he was away at rehab and he was upset about the DOG?!
And I actually don't hate his sister. I hate his mother and I strongly dislike his father. His sister is a friendly alcoholic and she's been mostly nice to me. I don't like that she calls RAH while she's drunk but I think she might be drunk more than sober. IDK. I haven't spoken to any of his clan in more than a year now.
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Stung.....WOW....I get the feeling that the two of you are equally matched combatants!
It is like I can hear the clash of battle and clanging of swords from here....
Oh, Dear! I must get off this forum, tonight....I am starting to sound like Hammer!
dandylion
It is like I can hear the clash of battle and clanging of swords from here....
Oh, Dear! I must get off this forum, tonight....I am starting to sound like Hammer!
dandylion
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btw, not to let THIS slip . . .
Step 11 in conjunction with Step 2 have me at a checkmate.
huh. No kidding.
Problems in your steps and problems in your life.
At the same time.
Who would have ever figured that?
Keep going. You will do fine.
Originally Posted by Stung
Step 11 in conjunction with Step 2 have me at a checkmate.
Problems in your steps and problems in your life.
At the same time.
Who would have ever figured that?
Keep going. You will do fine.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by dandylion
Stung.....WOW....I get the feeling that the two of you are equally matched combatants!
It is like I can hear the clash of battle and clanging of swords from here....
Oh, Dear! I must get off this forum, tonight....I am starting to sound like Hammer!
dandylion
It is like I can hear the clash of battle and clanging of swords from here....
Oh, Dear! I must get off this forum, tonight....I am starting to sound like Hammer!
dandylion
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