Is It Possible?
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mmmmmm
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Stung, your H was local. In rehab for 28 days. You re-homed a dog that was a gift from him without talking to him about it? He has a right to be upset with you. He is upset about the emotional part of this decision that it seems you are dismissing. He was sober and available for you to discuss this situation. At least broach it and say let's think about it and make a decision when you are out...The dog is a pawn or a symbol for both you and your H regarding control in your family.
Hawks I think is trying to make you see you have the right to determine the dog is too much for your family right now, but you could have involved your H in this decision. H is mad bc he probably sees you often just unilaterally making decisions and the dog is just the latest in his view? Maybe he sees he was re-homed way before the dog since he lives away due to his A?
You both are acting out behaviors you have learned from FOO. Sharp little drama triangles.
In my marriage counseling it looks like Yukon Cornelius scaling mountains... A 20 year drama triangle range of mountains... I'm not really sure we will ever entirely tear them all down, but maybe we can make a safe passage?
Making your own unilateral decisions make you feel strong and separate from your mother - perhaps your H is just a place marker in some sense? Since he is often dealing with his addiction and recovery and work, he let's you regularly run things. You want to show him you can survive without him in your marriage? Or really You want to show your mother you can do it all on your own and run triathlons too? Just think about it. Talk to your counselor.
There is more going on here than an argument over a dog Rehoming and restraining yourself from blocking his FOO from his cell phone without him knowing. We adore you here on SR and you will figure this out!
Hawks I think is trying to make you see you have the right to determine the dog is too much for your family right now, but you could have involved your H in this decision. H is mad bc he probably sees you often just unilaterally making decisions and the dog is just the latest in his view? Maybe he sees he was re-homed way before the dog since he lives away due to his A?
You both are acting out behaviors you have learned from FOO. Sharp little drama triangles.
In my marriage counseling it looks like Yukon Cornelius scaling mountains... A 20 year drama triangle range of mountains... I'm not really sure we will ever entirely tear them all down, but maybe we can make a safe passage?
Making your own unilateral decisions make you feel strong and separate from your mother - perhaps your H is just a place marker in some sense? Since he is often dealing with his addiction and recovery and work, he let's you regularly run things. You want to show him you can survive without him in your marriage? Or really You want to show your mother you can do it all on your own and run triathlons too? Just think about it. Talk to your counselor.
There is more going on here than an argument over a dog Rehoming and restraining yourself from blocking his FOO from his cell phone without him knowing. We adore you here on SR and you will figure this out!
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 106
Stung, hang in there, I love that you are continuing on a path of self discovery and awareness. You know already you are on his side of the street in regards to his family. I think bringing up the issue with the counselor about better communication with him when he is angry over something , and you learning how to deal with his anger in a way that best suits your own well being (without building resentments) is a good thing. Keep up the great work and keep that focus where it belongs on your side of the street!
As for the toxic people, I think it's pretty clear here that some people can and some people can't. It's an individual thing and neither way is the only way depending on the people involved.
On the dog thing, I totally get it. You said you understood why he was angry and that seems to lead me to believe that had he been readily available, you would have welcomed his input on the decision before making it final. Is this not part of his own consequence in some degree (stung didn't do it as a punishment for him, however the fact that he wasn't available because he's finally working on sobriety is his own doing, no?) ? could she have waited until she could contact him..maybe..hindsight is 20/20, I'd like to think that she's aware enough to know what works and doesn't work in their particular situation and will re-assess if something similar comes up in the future if necessary. Just my perspective on it anyway.
As for the toxic people, I think it's pretty clear here that some people can and some people can't. It's an individual thing and neither way is the only way depending on the people involved.
On the dog thing, I totally get it. You said you understood why he was angry and that seems to lead me to believe that had he been readily available, you would have welcomed his input on the decision before making it final. Is this not part of his own consequence in some degree (stung didn't do it as a punishment for him, however the fact that he wasn't available because he's finally working on sobriety is his own doing, no?) ? could she have waited until she could contact him..maybe..hindsight is 20/20, I'd like to think that she's aware enough to know what works and doesn't work in their particular situation and will re-assess if something similar comes up in the future if necessary. Just my perspective on it anyway.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
Frankly when it comes to decisions like this, it's sometimes better to apologize than ask permission. When it came to the cats, it broke my heart, it broke my DS14's heart, but XAH wiped his hands clean of them and I couldn't take care of them well on my own. So I just did it.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by Florence 
it's sometimes better to apologize than ask permission.
I can see the POV that the dog is a symbol of the power struggle, etc. but my initial, honest reaction is that it's simpler than that & not intended maliciously against anyone else. She's just doing what she needs to do FOR HER.
Stung has been single-mom-ing it for a while now (close to a year?), has 2 high needs, YOUNG children & has made huge strides in identifying her own codependency & other issues. Her needs have changed, her awareness has changed & she suddenly realizes that she can't lovingly manage having this pet in their home any longer. She has her OWN sense of failure to overcome in that decision - sometimes the hardest thing is to ask for help. It was probably an impossibly difficult decision for her to make.
Just because she didn't ask his opinion before rehoming the dog doesn't mean they haven't discussed it before or that he was unaware that there was an issue. Just because he's sober right now & in rehab (at the time) doesn't automatically grant him equal decision-making rights after all that they've been through, does it? For all she could predict, he could have relapsed the first night out of rehab & she'd be back in the same boat facing the same decisions.... I consider this extenuating circumstances. (glad that wasn't the case though
)She's the one left with the house, the kids, the pets, the day-to-day management of everything while he's been off relapsing & recovering. I don't think it's unreasonable that she made a decision in her best interests as well as the best interest of the dog himself without getting expressed permission from him.
Maybe part of the lesson here is as much for HIM to learn to not take everything so personally & step back & say, yeah, wow, that must've been hard for you but I can understand why it had to happen..... & to support HER decision?
Jumping down now...... 
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Stung, I really love your posts because you frequently dig into stuff that I haven't. It's really helpful.
As for whether you can have relationships with toxic people without being negatively influenced... my spontaneous reaction is maybe you can, but why would you want to? I realize you're talking about your husband and his relationship with his sister now, and that it's his side of the street and not yours -- but I think you can definitely bring this observation up in marriage counseling and point out to him that you saw a change in his behavior that seemed to be a direct consequence of his talk with his sister.
I'm dealing with similar-but-different with a kid right now -- getting a teenager to be observant of how her mood and general feeling of well-being is affected by the people she chooses to associate with. She's got both codie and addict personality traits which makes her a bear for me (with my codie traits) to handle, but this is something that she actually found helpful when she started considering it.
I'm not a person of compromise in my post AXH life. I've decided I'd rather be a hermit than deal with people who affect me negatively. I've limited contact with family members who are negative influences. I'm super picky with friends and have a really low tolerance for negativity and triggering stuff. Maybe when I get further along in my recovery, I'll have the mental and emotional resources to deal with that, but I don't yet.
I don't know if that's a way you could bring it up in counseling-- telling him it's totally acceptable to limit his exposure to people who trigger him (if he agrees that his sister does) until he's gotten stronger in his recovery?
As for whether you can have relationships with toxic people without being negatively influenced... my spontaneous reaction is maybe you can, but why would you want to? I realize you're talking about your husband and his relationship with his sister now, and that it's his side of the street and not yours -- but I think you can definitely bring this observation up in marriage counseling and point out to him that you saw a change in his behavior that seemed to be a direct consequence of his talk with his sister.
I'm dealing with similar-but-different with a kid right now -- getting a teenager to be observant of how her mood and general feeling of well-being is affected by the people she chooses to associate with. She's got both codie and addict personality traits which makes her a bear for me (with my codie traits) to handle, but this is something that she actually found helpful when she started considering it.
I'm not a person of compromise in my post AXH life. I've decided I'd rather be a hermit than deal with people who affect me negatively. I've limited contact with family members who are negative influences. I'm super picky with friends and have a really low tolerance for negativity and triggering stuff. Maybe when I get further along in my recovery, I'll have the mental and emotional resources to deal with that, but I don't yet.
I don't know if that's a way you could bring it up in counseling-- telling him it's totally acceptable to limit his exposure to people who trigger him (if he agrees that his sister does) until he's gotten stronger in his recovery?
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
I re-read this thread. There is a lot of thought provoking stuff in this thread.
Your question was if it is possible for him to ever deal with his toxic family and not have that toxicity leak out onto you/into your marriage.
You mention your very toxic mother and how she calls you weekly. Is it possible for *you* to have this relationship and not be affected by it? Does anything leak out into your marriage?
FWIW displacing emotions and toxic fall out onto the wrong people (by intensely over reacting to something/someone unrelated) was one of the things that led me to my bottom. I certainly knew I wanted to change that. I rarely have that problem today and if I do I can immediately recognize it and have some steps to take so I don't get stuck in that awful place. So my answer is that yes it is possible. It took me some work getting there and in some cases I had to sever relationships and in others I worked on boundaries and self awareness and keeping to my hoola hoop, but it rarely happens today.
Your question was if it is possible for him to ever deal with his toxic family and not have that toxicity leak out onto you/into your marriage.
You mention your very toxic mother and how she calls you weekly. Is it possible for *you* to have this relationship and not be affected by it? Does anything leak out into your marriage?
FWIW displacing emotions and toxic fall out onto the wrong people (by intensely over reacting to something/someone unrelated) was one of the things that led me to my bottom. I certainly knew I wanted to change that. I rarely have that problem today and if I do I can immediately recognize it and have some steps to take so I don't get stuck in that awful place. So my answer is that yes it is possible. It took me some work getting there and in some cases I had to sever relationships and in others I worked on boundaries and self awareness and keeping to my hoola hoop, but it rarely happens today.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
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Hmmm well as for rehoming the Dog - I see both perspectives. However, its clear that for the past year Stung has had to manage the house and the children while RAH has dabbled in recovery currently seeming to have delved in finally.
I am such an animal lover that first response is why should the dog suffer? But really, choosing to rehome a pet when you can't give the animal the attention it needs is the most loving thing to do. Hard decision, sometimes the best decision.
I can't say it was right or wrong not to consult with him because he left you holding the bag to manage the household and the kids, and work, and life in general.
I think you are doing the best you can and succeeding.
I am such an animal lover that first response is why should the dog suffer? But really, choosing to rehome a pet when you can't give the animal the attention it needs is the most loving thing to do. Hard decision, sometimes the best decision.
I can't say it was right or wrong not to consult with him because he left you holding the bag to manage the household and the kids, and work, and life in general.
I think you are doing the best you can and succeeding.
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