a question about rock bottoms
torquemax777
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Montrose CO
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a question about rock bottoms
Why do some alcoholics hit their rock bottoms after their first big "scare", while others seem to have many and far more severe? Do they get sort of " desensitized " to the negative consequences of their behavior? Is there a point of no return? Or is there always a slight chance?
Last edited by torquemax777; 10-05-2014 at 12:51 AM. Reason: was not showing up on the forum list
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I don't know that there is an answer to the question why, torquemax. Recovering A's are sometimes referred to as "high bottom" or "low bottom." The high bottom ones will seek recovery after a relatively minor incident like a first DUI or a warning at work, hitting their bottom at a higher point. The low bottom ones are those who don't seek recovery until things are much worse, having lost a job, their home, their marriage.
And then there are those who are "no bottom" A's, those who never get to the bottom where they decide they need help.
I don't think there is a point of no return; there is always a chance, right up until the A dies. I don't think anyone can give odds on any specific thing happening at any specific point, though.
You might want to check the Alcoholics part of the forum here to see if there is helpful info there, or perhaps post your question there to get feedback. I'm sure there is some amazing experience to be shared there.
And then there are those who are "no bottom" A's, those who never get to the bottom where they decide they need help.
I don't think there is a point of no return; there is always a chance, right up until the A dies. I don't think anyone can give odds on any specific thing happening at any specific point, though.
You might want to check the Alcoholics part of the forum here to see if there is helpful info there, or perhaps post your question there to get feedback. I'm sure there is some amazing experience to be shared there.
Keeping it simple!
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Every alcoholics rock bottom is different.
Mine came when I was basically sick and tired of being sick and tired and wanted to be sober more than I wanted to be drunk.
I'm lucky that mine happened before I lost everyone and everything.
Mine came when I was basically sick and tired of being sick and tired and wanted to be sober more than I wanted to be drunk.
I'm lucky that mine happened before I lost everyone and everything.
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Hi Torquaymax
When my partner was drinking and terrible things were happening I kept thinking surely this has got to be his rock bottom, but then he would carry on drinking. I couldn't understand how he could carry on after these bad things were happening it was like he didnt see the consequences.
When he did decide to stop drinking ( he is over a year sober) it wasn't the result of a major incident he just said one day that he had had enough that was his rock bottom.
When my partner was drinking and terrible things were happening I kept thinking surely this has got to be his rock bottom, but then he would carry on drinking. I couldn't understand how he could carry on after these bad things were happening it was like he didnt see the consequences.
When he did decide to stop drinking ( he is over a year sober) it wasn't the result of a major incident he just said one day that he had had enough that was his rock bottom.
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My rock bottom was when I had just had enough. I couldn't bear to carry on daily drinking to blackout any longer. I felt done.
Horrible things had happened along the way but they didn't cause me to quit. I reacted to them by making loud dramatic declarations that I was 'never going to drink again' which lasted till about noon the next day.
When I did quit, I was kind of quiet and just got my head down and did what I needed to do. First to physically detox and then to work my recovery program. I have about four years now.
Horrible things had happened along the way but they didn't cause me to quit. I reacted to them by making loud dramatic declarations that I was 'never going to drink again' which lasted till about noon the next day.
When I did quit, I was kind of quiet and just got my head down and did what I needed to do. First to physically detox and then to work my recovery program. I have about four years now.
Sober since 10th April 2012
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Some alcoholics drink themselves to death, knowing that's what they're doing but unwilling or unable to stop.
Some go for years and finally stop drinking after losing everything.
Others, like me, are able to stop before major consequences or damage.
Some go for years and finally stop drinking after losing everything.
Others, like me, are able to stop before major consequences or damage.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,778
There is no straight answer to that question. My friend who's been sober for almost 20 years quit when he got a DUI. I quit when I was so very depressed I knew I'd probably kill myself if I continued drinking. My BF is still struggling after many, many brushes with injury/possible death and getting in trouble with the law ten years ago. I think part of it has to do with self-esteem and putting the work in. Getting sober is not easy.
torquemax777
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Montrose CO
Posts: 350
Thank you ALL for your insightful replies! :-) in was also really impressed with how many recovering alcoholics responded. This was sort of a retorical question, in that I kinda already knew the responses. Sometimes though, a person just needs to hear it again. Plus, it's always nice to get a fresh perspective. Mine is definitely a low bottom; sometimes when I watch intervention or some show like that, I'm thinking; "wow! Mine has done WAY more crap than that." But don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting anyone else's experience, it's just that sometimes I get curious and need positive reinforcement. Thank you all for being my new "family."
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We only need to ask the same of ourselves as codependents to understand why "bottom" is so different for individuals.
We can look or hear what some F&F of A's have out up with, losing their livelihoods, health, homes, friends, sanity, and we think "How could they not have walked away sooner? Didn't they recognize the severity of the situation?"
We can look or hear what some F&F of A's have out up with, losing their livelihoods, health, homes, friends, sanity, and we think "How could they not have walked away sooner? Didn't they recognize the severity of the situation?"
RIP Sweet Suki
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I don't believe "rock bottom" is an event. I believe it is a state of mind. I continued to drink after getting a DWI. That would have been a "bottom" event for some people, but I still hadn't had "enough." That came after another two years of drinking and found myself waking up while at my computer around 1:00 in the morning, knowing I had to go to work the next day. That was my "bottom." I had had enough. That is when I reached out for help. Checked myself into a detox program that same night/morning.
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I think often there is something else going on...dual diagnosis with depression, or incredibly painful memories, shame, etc,...sometimes the drinking is an analgesic for something that hurts much more than the consequences of the drinking as horrible and as destructive as the consequences can be... These other things going on need to be dealt with as the bottom of the drinking would have to get much deeper than the bottom of their pain...and that can too, too dangerously low.
I think there is a piece missing sometimes in the precepts as they were set up, and that it is o.k. to use lots of love to support someone struggling to get sober, no matter how many slip-ups, of course not putting up with any abuse, detaching from their struggles and their moods, moving out, or having them move out if need be, but "loving the alcoholic, hating the disease" pouring light into their souls...
Love won't cure their drinking, but as drinking is often just a symptom, it can help with their feelings of hopelessness and worthlessness when they are honestly struggling to find their way out.
I really believe in what Dr. Gabor Mate is doing in Canada - "Using punishment to try to rehabilitate people who have already suffered years of punishment doesn't work"
I tried to post a link, but as I read much more than I have written, I don't have enough posts yet to put link in right...
I think there is a piece missing sometimes in the precepts as they were set up, and that it is o.k. to use lots of love to support someone struggling to get sober, no matter how many slip-ups, of course not putting up with any abuse, detaching from their struggles and their moods, moving out, or having them move out if need be, but "loving the alcoholic, hating the disease" pouring light into their souls...
Love won't cure their drinking, but as drinking is often just a symptom, it can help with their feelings of hopelessness and worthlessness when they are honestly struggling to find their way out.
I really believe in what Dr. Gabor Mate is doing in Canada - "Using punishment to try to rehabilitate people who have already suffered years of punishment doesn't work"
I tried to post a link, but as I read much more than I have written, I don't have enough posts yet to put link in right...
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
On this board we might think about our own. How low do we have to go to find our own bottom? How much are we willing to lose, sacrifice, or pass by? How much are we willing to live with, accept, condone, or participate in? How long are we willing to wait for someone else to change so we don't have to? How much hoping and wishing is enough to get us to admit we have to start owning and recovering?
We are each different and get there when we get there. Took me a real long time. I hit bottom before he did.
We are each different and get there when we get there. Took me a real long time. I hit bottom before he did.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
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Thanks to those who pointed out that we on the other side of the street have a bottom too, and they are all different. Honestly, it had never occurred to me in quite this way. It's eye-opening to me to see it like that.
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Originally Posted by soullong 
I think often there is something else going on...dual diagnosis with depression, or incredibly painful memories, shame, etc,...sometimes the drinking is an analgesic for something that hurts much more than the consequences of the drinking as horrible and as destructive as the consequences can be... These other things going on need to be dealt with as the bottom of the drinking would have to get much deeper than the bottom of their pain...and that can too, too dangerously low.
I think there is a piece missing sometimes in the precepts as they were set up, and that it is o.k. to use lots of love to support someone struggling to get sober, no matter how many slip-ups, of course not putting up with any abuse, detaching from their struggles and their moods, moving out, or having them move out if need be, but "loving the alcoholic, hating the disease" pouring light into their souls...
Love won't cure their drinking, but as drinking is often just a symptom, it can help with their feelings of hopelessness and worthlessness when they are honestly struggling to find their way out.
I really believe in what Dr. Gabor Mate is doing in Canada - "Using punishment to try to rehabilitate people who have already suffered years of punishment doesn't work"
I tried to post a link, but as I read much more than I have written, I don't have enough posts yet to put link in right...
I think there is a piece missing sometimes in the precepts as they were set up, and that it is o.k. to use lots of love to support someone struggling to get sober, no matter how many slip-ups, of course not putting up with any abuse, detaching from their struggles and their moods, moving out, or having them move out if need be, but "loving the alcoholic, hating the disease" pouring light into their souls...
Love won't cure their drinking, but as drinking is often just a symptom, it can help with their feelings of hopelessness and worthlessness when they are honestly struggling to find their way out.
I really believe in what Dr. Gabor Mate is doing in Canada - "Using punishment to try to rehabilitate people who have already suffered years of punishment doesn't work"
I tried to post a link, but as I read much more than I have written, I don't have enough posts yet to put link in right...
Alcohol numbed pain and settled anxiety. Addressing those so they never get bad enough that she has to fight that urge is working.
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Originally Posted by Thumper
On this board we might think about our own. How low do we have to go to find our own bottom? How much are we willing to lose, sacrifice, or pass by? How much are we willing to live with, accept, condone, or participate in? How long are we willing to wait for someone else to change so we don't have to? How much hoping and wishing is enough to get us to admit we have to start owning and recovering?
We are each different and get there when we get there. Took me a real long time. I hit bottom before he did.
We are each different and get there when we get there. Took me a real long time. I hit bottom before he did.
This was true for us. I hit bottom first and quickly. It was a 3am decision that she was going to a hospital or getting dropped with her family and I wasn't persuadable. I was done - it broke both of our hearts and she said sitting at her brothers house for the next week missing us and hating life was the turning point. She wanted to come home and finally the pain alcohol was causing was too great for alcohol to numb. The only thing that worked to ease that was being sober
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Torquemax777,
My husband didn’t find his rock bottom until he was already undergoing treatment for his addiction, encouraged by family members...This is what he tells me… before this he was caught in a pattern of stops and starts with foggy thoughts. He quit one substance but couldn’t stop the others, etc.
I don’t put emphasis on rock bottom beause its truly irrelevant in many ways. People can get help at any time & then reach the aha moment "I never want to go back to the way I was living” ... we never know when it will come, or what will bring it about as its really a state of mind. Also alcoholism and drug addiction are classified as a brain disease... mental illness..
Since your topic was on Rock Bottom I wanted to share this from the National Institute of Drug Abuse.. I personally believe this is true.
My husband didn’t find his rock bottom until he was already undergoing treatment for his addiction, encouraged by family members...This is what he tells me… before this he was caught in a pattern of stops and starts with foggy thoughts. He quit one substance but couldn’t stop the others, etc.
I don’t put emphasis on rock bottom beause its truly irrelevant in many ways. People can get help at any time & then reach the aha moment "I never want to go back to the way I was living” ... we never know when it will come, or what will bring it about as its really a state of mind. Also alcoholism and drug addiction are classified as a brain disease... mental illness..
Since your topic was on Rock Bottom I wanted to share this from the National Institute of Drug Abuse.. I personally believe this is true.
When is the best time to get someone into treatment?
It is a myth that an addict must hit "rock bottom" to be ready for treatment. The reality is, treatment works regardless of whether a person has hit rock bottom; and catching a person earlier in the addiction cycle, may mean fewer accompanying problems and a better overall prognosis for long-term recovery. Further, "rock bottom" is a dangerous place to be, and for many addicts, that point is when a near-fatal overdose or other serious health or criminal justice consequence has occurred. If you think a loved one is in need of treatment, it is advisable to do everything in your power to help them find the courage, determination, and means to seek treatment as early as possible
It is a myth that an addict must hit "rock bottom" to be ready for treatment. The reality is, treatment works regardless of whether a person has hit rock bottom; and catching a person earlier in the addiction cycle, may mean fewer accompanying problems and a better overall prognosis for long-term recovery. Further, "rock bottom" is a dangerous place to be, and for many addicts, that point is when a near-fatal overdose or other serious health or criminal justice consequence has occurred. If you think a loved one is in need of treatment, it is advisable to do everything in your power to help them find the courage, determination, and means to seek treatment as early as possible
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Originally Posted by soullong
I think often there is something else going on...dual diagnosis with depression, or incredibly painful memories, shame, etc,...sometimes the drinking is an analgesic for something that hurts much more than the consequences of the drinking as horrible and as destructive as the consequences can be... These other things going on need to be dealt with as the bottom of the drinking would have to get much deeper than the bottom of their pain...and that can too, too dangerously low.
I think there is a piece missing sometimes in the precepts as they were set up, and that it is o.k. to use lots of love to support someone struggling to get sober, no matter how many slip-ups, of course not putting up with any abuse, detaching from their struggles and their moods, moving out, or having them move out if need be, but "loving the alcoholic, hating the disease" pouring light into their souls...
Love won't cure their drinking, but as drinking is often just a symptom, it can help with their feelings of hopelessness and worthlessness when they are honestly struggling to find their way out.
I really believe in what Dr. Gabor Mate is doing in Canada - "Using punishment to try to rehabilitate people who have already suffered years of punishment doesn't work"
I tried to post a link, but as I read much more than I have written, I don't have enough posts yet to put link in right...
I think there is a piece missing sometimes in the precepts as they were set up, and that it is o.k. to use lots of love to support someone struggling to get sober, no matter how many slip-ups, of course not putting up with any abuse, detaching from their struggles and their moods, moving out, or having them move out if need be, but "loving the alcoholic, hating the disease" pouring light into their souls...
Love won't cure their drinking, but as drinking is often just a symptom, it can help with their feelings of hopelessness and worthlessness when they are honestly struggling to find their way out.
I really believe in what Dr. Gabor Mate is doing in Canada - "Using punishment to try to rehabilitate people who have already suffered years of punishment doesn't work"
I tried to post a link, but as I read much more than I have written, I don't have enough posts yet to put link in right...
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Posts: 11,589
think about as if someone at the office gets a cold........some people get REALLY sick, others just get the sniffles and annoying cough, some don't get sick at all. it's the same "infliction" but human physiology reacts to it differently.
that's why WE should never think WE can predict or CAUSE another's bottom, or that we can provide the catalyst. we can provide information on help that is available, the numbers to the crisis line, AA hotline, a couple local treatment centers, but we can't make them go or even WANT to go. what they do with the information is out of our control.
that's why WE should never think WE can predict or CAUSE another's bottom, or that we can provide the catalyst. we can provide information on help that is available, the numbers to the crisis line, AA hotline, a couple local treatment centers, but we can't make them go or even WANT to go. what they do with the information is out of our control.
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