meggem

So.. it’s been a few weeks since the restraining order and my soon to be EX has been playing nice and acting human. Our only communication is about the kids picking up, dropping off.

I can feel the hate from him when we do the exchange, but I had to talk to him on the phone yesterday about the kids (super quick exchange) and his voice sounded calm and normal and I started to think (my first mistake) that maybe we could actually discuss a little more about the kids and have some co-parenting discussions (the PFA indicates kid talk only) and then I started thinking about how I totally stiffed him on a few bills and now that it’s “calmed down” maybe I could cop to that….maybe the hostility is subsiding. I thought I might tell him that when it came time for taxes, maybe he should keep the whole return –

Sometimes I feel bad at night when he calls for the kids and they really don’t want to be on the phone with him, only because where we moved there are tons of kids and my 5 year old is very overstimulated and wants to just play with them and not talk on the phone and I felt like explaining that so he understood more of what our life is like. I’m not disrespecting the PFA, if he needed a judge to tell him he can’t be abusive then so be it.. that won’t change. Since he is following the guidelines of the PFA, I thought maybe he gets it now and realizes he can’t behave that way.

So, while on the way to get the kids last night I decide I am going to say “hello” when he starts to get them out of the car instead of pretending he’s not there and overcompensating the awkwardness by focusing on the kids.

I said “hey, can we talk on the phone later about a few things?” (I didn’t want to talk at all about anything to do with us, just the kids) – He said…and he was almost excited to say this “No – Can’t – You put a stop to that – call a judge!!” His body language was defensive and he had stupid mannerisms and snickering and he just sounded so ignorant. So so ignorant. I mean yes, I was granted a PFA to stop his abuse but he sounded ridiculous and it just reminded me of what a simpleton he is. It’s like he blamed me! No, Gina, we can’t talk on the phone later because of what YOU did. YOU put a stop to THAT. See what you did??? And he didn’t say it in a disappointed or disheartened way, he said it with “HA-HA” pride. If that makes sense.

Then while I was getting ready to pull out I see him crying on his steering wheel.

Can someone help me understand all of this? Was I wrong? or codependent? or did I just do something a normal person would do? Or am I still thinking he is going to be normal one day? I can’t be the only person who has tried this before.

hopeful4

Well, you left out that you wanted to speak to him about a couple things about the kids. Also...he has likely been waiting to say that for a while, so he said it when it's not really fitting. Don't forget why you have a PFA, don't expect normal from this man.

I understand. Every single time I think my X is a bit normal, he does some little thing to remind me.

Detatch, walk away from it.

AnvilheadII

so because he "acted nice" for a few weeks AFTER the restraining order was in place your mind went here:

I started to think (my first mistake) that maybe we could actually discuss a little more about the kids and have some co-parenting discussions (the PFA indicates kid talk only) and then I started thinking about how I totally stiffed him on a few bills and now that it’s “calmed down” maybe I could cop to that….maybe the hostility is subsiding. I thought I might tell him that when it came time for taxes, maybe he should keep the whole return –

you instinctively want to REWARD him for NOT acting like a complete ass for a short period of time AND told yourself it's on it's way to getting better. to the point of thinking of offering to let him keep the whole tax return.

that PFA is only effective if YOU keep to the restrictions. he is not changing....he is not going to be the nice guy. sorry, but he just isn't....

there is another thread going right now which speaks to the psychology of the Intermittent Chicken - it might be a good read for you right now!!!!

biminiblue

Right, I'm with anvil.

*waves*

No feeling sorry for him, that ship sailed long before the PFA. He probably likes the no-contact just as much as you do - AND - he's going to take any and every opportunity to snipe at you like always.

Stick to the PFA that you requested. Kids only. The courts will work out the financials. The end.

iamthird

Sadly they cannot have normal conversations. No matter how much we want to co-parent, they are ill and until they find recovery it will always be this way.

DD6 has been sick past few days and I text separated AH last night that she wasnt going to school. As fate would have it, she woke up fine and not coughing. I think she needed extra long rest and meds yesterday. Well I just got her to school myself even though normally separated AH does because I had already told him last night she wasnt going. He text me this morning asking how she was and I said fine that she went to school and now hes mad about that I didnt ask him to take her. However, If I would have tried to text him this morning to take her he would have told me I cant throw things at him last minute, etc....My point is, no matter what you do, you are always going to blame you until they get healthy.

Remember if he was rational, things would not be where they are right now. Do not forget that no matter how "nice" he appears to be. Underneath, there is a lot of wiring that needs re-wiring before the machine can give you a different result.

meggem

great insight you guys thanks. Everything makes sense. The abuse stopped dead in its tracks as soon as the order was granted. So... I should have no communication with him whatsoever aside from imperative information that he needs to know regarding the kids, stitches, illness, scheduling, or "I'm on the way" - stuff like that correct?

I am not to be lead to believe that I can shoot the breeze with him about the daily life of the kids and what not's. correct?

I guess my brain is thinking - he got the message loud and clear. His abuse will not be tolerated so now we can maybe start a small co-parenting dialogue that goes beyond picking up and dropping off.

I'm on the ledge of a cliff aren't I.

meggem

can someone tell me where the intermittent chicken thread is - I can't find it

FireSprite

I just bumped it for you

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...hick-en-3.html

AnvilheadII

meggem....what does the PFA state about contact? and what are the current custody/visitation agreements?

meggem

He has them every other weekend and wednesday for dinner. I am to dial the phone every night and hand it to the girls so they can talk to him.

Pick and drop off is at the library (inches away from the police station).

He is allowed at school functions and such but can't be near me.

The PFA states that the custody agreement remains the same because I did make it clear that I did not have any concerns about him and the kids.

The PFA is for 18 months. I don't think PA has "No Contact" I hear that alot around here and I'm not sure if that is a different order or another way of saying PFA. This is a Protection from Abuse. I don't know.... I don't NEED to shoot the breeze with him about the kids. I really don't value his opinion. I guess Anvil, you are right, I wanted to reward him for good behavior.

dandylion

meggem.....one basic thing is that a relationship with an addict (or someone who is sober, but still THINKS like an alcoholic) is that they are toxic in relationships.
To engage in an intimate relationship with them means that you enter a dysfunctional "dance" with them. A toxic dance".

Stuff that will work well in a healthy relationship will most usually just backfire in an addictive relationship. This goes for peronality disorders, etc., also.

If you try to assume that he will think like you do or just think "logically"...you will be disappointed on a regular basis.

He is an individual totally distinct and different than you. That is why you have so little control over him. That is why you must get your head out of his head.......
You will have to deal with what is...not what you want it to be....

dandylion

meggem

I wish I could figure out what my agenda is, what my true motive is deep down. It was not even 1 month ago that I was on the verge of complete emotional collapse. And now I want to shoot the kid breeze with him and say "hello"?

He still makes me sick. I think. No, he does. I wonder......do I still think he.....dare I say it... Do I still think he could change???? Is that what I'm thinking? (rhetorical)

Maybe I should just stop thinking and move on. Nice people like to do nice things and I'm a nice person. Maybe it is just that simple.

SparkleKitty

I think the more distance you put between you and him the more clarity you will find. Choose to limit contact to the bare minimum (no matter what else you might be feeling) with the goal of understanding YOURSELF better, rather than focusing on him and whatever he might be going through. He is HIS problem.

NYCDoglvr

You have unrealistic expectations. Active alcoholics are angry, depressed people incapable of taking responsibility. Anyone can sound ok in a one minute phone conversation but don't let denial trip you up. Perhaps it's better to keep all communication about the children to texts/email, and at a minimum. Short, and to the point, nothing personal.

biminiblue

megg, that's exactly it.

You've heard of projection? You know, whatever you think is what you think other people should be or are thinking?

You are trying to be reasonable, like a reasonable person would do. So you think he will be, too.

It isn't just dysfunctional people who project.

Thumper

Based on my experience this is a very important time to get out of his head and get into your own.

In my case I had that urge to reconnect etc. as a result of very poor boundaries and a lot of emotional enmeshment. You can explore that with a counselor or there is a boat load of stuff if you google it to see if it 'fits' for you.

It came as quite a shock to me honestly. I am an independent person and I knew, for a fact and with no doubt, that I wanted away from him. I actually had some pretty rigid and high walls that prevented true intimacy but I discovered that the swing between engulfment and abandonment, the complete lack of boundaries in some areas and very high and rigid boundaries in others was all very typical of emotionally enmeshed relationships and while my alcoholic partner fed into that - those were all my issues before he came along.


Bottom line I came to see that for me - I had two things to really accept. 1 - He was not healthy and I should not expect a typical healthy response and it was better to steer clear. 2 - I was not healthy and my difficulty with that separation (even though I was mentally clear I wanted it) was all about me and work I needed to do internally. It wasn't enough to really accept his dysfunction. If I wanted to feel better I had to accept my own.

dandylion

meggem....in addition to my last post....I would like to add one more thought.
Parents love to share about their children!! We do..we just do. The typical proud parent will share baby pictures with a stranger on the street if they are a willing participant...LOL.

The desire to share about the kids is a natural urge, I believe.

It is just the reality that he can't co-operate. So....you have to deal with the reality of what is......sigh.....

dandylion

Sikofit

SO true, Dandylion! I've often been excited to come home and share about a funny story about DD or DS, and then AH is passed out already...that's in addition to the two times recently he's gotten sick. But he's still not THERE for me--and that's sad. To think you can't depend on and share with someone who helped you make those wonderful children...

Thumper

That is very true. That is up there with the top three things that I find hard about single parenting. The sharing the good things and just growing, the discussions about the decisions that need to be made, and no option to take a break - which is actually changing a lot now that they are older. I can leave them alone and take a walk or go get milk without getting snow boots and coats on 4 kids first, lol.

The reality we have to pick the best of what we have to choose from and for me that was to create a home free of alcoholism. My ideal wasn't in that list of choices so it is what it is. {hug}

redatlanta

I think that you need to adhere to the terms of the PFA. If it states that you are only to contact him regarding emergencies and the like then its important that you only do that.

I understand you were trying to reward good behavior - but really, that's not your decision to make. What you don't know is what he was told regarding this PFA by an attorney or by whomever served him. If instructed not to talk to you or have discussions with you other than really important matters concerning the kids then…….he shouldn't talk to you about other things even if you are offering. On your end this could also be looked at as violating the PFA and it could result in a dismissal of it. I have seen this before - where the victim becomes comfortable. Then phone conversations start - texts, emails, more visitation etc. The abuser reverts back to abusing and when the victim pulls the PFA card the abuser then goes to Court with proof of violation and you are sh!t out of luck.

Perhaps the best thing to do is to contact your attorney about what limitations there are in contact and how you can contact. If possible to email that might be your best option for now. If you don't really need to shoot the breeze with him about the kids then forget about it.