This Weekend
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 8
This Weekend
I listened to SR member’s advice last week and decided to talk to my thirteen year old daughter about her mother’s drink problem over the weekend. I started by explaining to our daughter that via the internet, I had discovered possibly four levels of alcohol problem her mom could be at:
a) Social Drinker (social drinking is very much part of the fabric of life in the UK, almost everyone drinks socially)
b) Drink Problem – drinks regularly to excess
c) Drink Dependent – has to drink a lot, every day
d) Alcoholic – needs to drink almost all day, every day.
Together we decided my wife is somewhere between b and c. This is because some weeks her drinking is relatively low compared to other weeks. We discussed why this variation may be. We concluded it was probably to mask an underlying mental problem she could have had since childhood, hence her heavy drinking since age sixteen. I explained if we can stop her drinking then the underlying condition will be exposed and maybe it can be treated.
I then asked our daughter how much she thought her mom drank each week. I found her answers to be remarkably close to what I thought it to be. I explained alcohol units and that the UK health advice is for women not to regularly exceed 14 units per week. We concluded my wife drank around 70 units on good (low consumption) week, around 120 units on a normal week and 180 units on a bad week. We estimated we get roughly one good and one bad week in every eight, the other six being normal.
My daughter is very much aware of her mom’s drink problem. Like me she regularly gets away from her mom when she is drunk. This if often when I am out at work. However, she is thirteen and cannot go out as much so she spends a lot of time in her room when I am not at home. She even asked me to fit a bolt to the inside of her bedroom door as her mom regularly tries to enter her room when she is drunk.
I am really pleased I discussed the situation with my daughter. Together we have discovered that the subject is not taboo any more. What we now need to do is to try and get my wife to accept that she has a drink problem. You will all know that this is the difficult bit, any advice on how we can start this process off would be welcome.
a) Social Drinker (social drinking is very much part of the fabric of life in the UK, almost everyone drinks socially)
b) Drink Problem – drinks regularly to excess
c) Drink Dependent – has to drink a lot, every day
d) Alcoholic – needs to drink almost all day, every day.
Together we decided my wife is somewhere between b and c. This is because some weeks her drinking is relatively low compared to other weeks. We discussed why this variation may be. We concluded it was probably to mask an underlying mental problem she could have had since childhood, hence her heavy drinking since age sixteen. I explained if we can stop her drinking then the underlying condition will be exposed and maybe it can be treated.
I then asked our daughter how much she thought her mom drank each week. I found her answers to be remarkably close to what I thought it to be. I explained alcohol units and that the UK health advice is for women not to regularly exceed 14 units per week. We concluded my wife drank around 70 units on good (low consumption) week, around 120 units on a normal week and 180 units on a bad week. We estimated we get roughly one good and one bad week in every eight, the other six being normal.
My daughter is very much aware of her mom’s drink problem. Like me she regularly gets away from her mom when she is drunk. This if often when I am out at work. However, she is thirteen and cannot go out as much so she spends a lot of time in her room when I am not at home. She even asked me to fit a bolt to the inside of her bedroom door as her mom regularly tries to enter her room when she is drunk.
I am really pleased I discussed the situation with my daughter. Together we have discovered that the subject is not taboo any more. What we now need to do is to try and get my wife to accept that she has a drink problem. You will all know that this is the difficult bit, any advice on how we can start this process off would be welcome.
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 577
not sure about availability in your area, but there's a great program called Alateen. It helps the kids understand that they didn't cause their parent's addiction, they can't control it, and they can't cure it.
glad to hear the talk went well for you two.
glad to hear the talk went well for you two.
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,792
I vote for the bolt on the door your daughter asked for. Not only will it prevent a scene if your wife is out of control, but it will help your daughter learn/maintain a sense of personal boundaries.
Good luck to both of you.
Good luck to both of you.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
EnglishHusband I commend you for having a very frank and open talk about your wife's drinking, it sounds very informative.
Gently, I ask that you please be wary of giving her any signal, implicit or explicit, that your daughter is somehow responsible for getting your wife to recognize that she has a problem. That is a tremendous burden for anyone, particularly a teenager. Your daughter's job is to be 13. To go to school, to have friends, to focus on boys and friends and clothes and all of that good old teenager stuff. She is too young, however mature or knowledgeable she seems, to bear the weight of 'getting mum well' on her shoulders. Counting units is not an activity for kids.
That being said I want to reiterate kudos to you for making sure she knows she has a safe place to talk about what she is dealing with.
Gently, I ask that you please be wary of giving her any signal, implicit or explicit, that your daughter is somehow responsible for getting your wife to recognize that she has a problem. That is a tremendous burden for anyone, particularly a teenager. Your daughter's job is to be 13. To go to school, to have friends, to focus on boys and friends and clothes and all of that good old teenager stuff. She is too young, however mature or knowledgeable she seems, to bear the weight of 'getting mum well' on her shoulders. Counting units is not an activity for kids.
That being said I want to reiterate kudos to you for making sure she knows she has a safe place to talk about what she is dealing with.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Originally Posted by EnglishHusband 
What we now need to do is to try and get my wife to accept that she has a drink problem. You will all know that this is the difficult bit, any advice on how we can start this process off would be welcome.
As much as it's tempting to imagine you can out-think alcoholism, it simply doesn't work. If all it took to fix a drinking problem was to identify how bad it was and then rationally discuss it w/the drinker, this site would not exist. Have you seen this thread yet, from the stickies at the top of the page? http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html
The 3 C's of Alanon are: You didn't Cause the drinking. You can't Control the drinking. And you can't Cure the drinking. This little saying holds a whole lot of truth, EnglishHusband. Please try to take it to heart.
The thing that you really DO need to do next? Educate yourself (and your daughter, as far as it's appropriate for her age) about what alcoholism really is (a relentless disease that can't be reasoned away) and what you can and can't do about it. SR is a great resource for that, as is Alanon. I'd strongly suggest Alanon for you and Alateen for your daughter. (But I Don’t Want to Go to Al-Anon!) There, you'll learn that the only person whose behavior you can control is your own. You cannot make your wife get sober, but you most definitely can find a lot more peace and happiness for yourself and your daughter, regardless of what your AW does or doesn't do. As you start your own recovery, you'll begin to see your path more clearly.
Take care of yourself and DD.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
"I explained if we can stop her drinking then the underlying condition will be exposed and maybe it can be treated"
Caution...Caution...Caution...do not let a 13 year old, or yourself, feel you are responsible OR ABLE to get your wife/her mother to stop drinking. When she does not (and it's likely she will not unless she decides it's an issue and stops) your daughter will feel she failed b/c she could not get good ol mom to stop drinking. When there is a mental issue it makes it much harder to try and get someone to see the ramifications of their drinking.
I would say the problem is bigger than you think. If your 13 yr old wants a bolt on her door it has escalated before in a big way in my opinion. I have a 15 yr old DD so I understand this quite a bit. I would take the focus off your wife and put it on you and your daughter. I second Alateen or Celebrate Recovery has a program called the Landing at some if these are available in your area that would be a great resource for your DD.
I do think it's great you are talking to your DD about all of this. Keep yourself wide open as a support system for her, she will need that.
Good luck to all of you!
Caution...Caution...Caution...do not let a 13 year old, or yourself, feel you are responsible OR ABLE to get your wife/her mother to stop drinking. When she does not (and it's likely she will not unless she decides it's an issue and stops) your daughter will feel she failed b/c she could not get good ol mom to stop drinking. When there is a mental issue it makes it much harder to try and get someone to see the ramifications of their drinking.
I would say the problem is bigger than you think. If your 13 yr old wants a bolt on her door it has escalated before in a big way in my opinion. I have a 15 yr old DD so I understand this quite a bit. I would take the focus off your wife and put it on you and your daughter. I second Alateen or Celebrate Recovery has a program called the Landing at some if these are available in your area that would be a great resource for your DD.
I do think it's great you are talking to your DD about all of this. Keep yourself wide open as a support system for her, she will need that.
Good luck to all of you!
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by hopeful4
I would say the problem is bigger than you think. If your 13 yr old wants a bolt on her door it has escalated before in a big way in my opinion. I have a 15 yr old DD so I understand this quite a bit. I would take the focus off your wife and put it on you and your daughter. I second Alateen or Celebrate Recovery has a program called the Landing at some if these are available in your area that would be a great resource for your DD.
You have made an incredible first step here in talking with your daughter - that is SO HARD for a lot of parents to do; I give you enormous Kudos for addressing the elephant in the room. Keep educating yourselves about addiction & seeking help for YOU - every single thing we know for sure tells us that no one can make an addict choose recovery until & unless THEY are ready. You can express your discomfort with her drinking & how it impacts you but ultimately the only thing you can control is yourself & helping your daughter navigate her way through this as a young girl trying to grow up. You've gotten great advice in this & your other thread so I won't repeat it all, but I hope you stick around & keep reading here at SR.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: My mind wanders a lot, but I try to stay in the present.
Posts: 1,007
EnglishHusband, Everything you've already read here is exactly right, so I won't repeat.
I just wanted to add that 12/13 was around the age that I started being completely upfront with my daughter about her father's drinking. Being honest with her was an important shift in my own recovery, as well as hers.
That same daughter, now 17, has been attending Alanon/Alateen since she was 14. The first time she sat in a meeting and heard a bunch of older women describe their lives as ACOA's she was visibly changed. When the meeting was over she said to me "I have to go back."
It was the single best thing I've ever done as a parent.
Good luck to your whole family.
I just wanted to add that 12/13 was around the age that I started being completely upfront with my daughter about her father's drinking. Being honest with her was an important shift in my own recovery, as well as hers.
That same daughter, now 17, has been attending Alanon/Alateen since she was 14. The first time she sat in a meeting and heard a bunch of older women describe their lives as ACOA's she was visibly changed. When the meeting was over she said to me "I have to go back."
It was the single best thing I've ever done as a parent.
Good luck to your whole family.
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: OREGON
Posts: 228
I am an odd one out here, and that is ok with me. I am not an expert at this as I am just learning it all myself.
I think that the table that was given can be misleading. Not all alcoholics drink tons and tons every night... maybe just two or three... but it is how that affects them in their lives. Two or three a night doesn't exclude them from being an alcoholic. The behaviors that go along with it might be the same as someone that drinks 10 to 12 a night... if that makes sense? So it doesn't matter if she is a, or b, or c, or d, or z! If it is affecting her life, your lives, and those around her, it is a problem even if it is two or three....
You, and especially your daughter, is not responsible for letting her know she is an alcoholic. She already knows this I am sure. She won't admit it. Most of them don't in the beginning for varying reasons.
Your job and your daughter's job is to try to maintain the healthiest life possible, even though your wife is not. It is important to understand her quacking and placing blame on those around her, so you know it is just that. It is so you do not internalize her words and actions as something that you did. She needs to own her responsibilities. She most likely will not, until she gets the help she needs. So in the meantime, it is you two living your lives as healthy as possible, even when she tries to pull you into the tornado.
I also worry about the bolt on the door. The rage that people can have, especially when drinking, and not getting their way. I can't imagine being your daughter on the other side of that door if the rage started. Banging, yelling, insults, threats, coming from the other side of the door.
I think it would be better to have a discussion as a family and your daughter states that at her age she wants some privacy and her room is that place, so if you as her parents can knock before coming in, etc... it would be appreciated.
On the other side of the fence, if your wife has hit her or physically abused her, it is time to leave. No ands, ifs or buts about it.
I think alateen, which has been suggested, is a great thing to get your daughter involved with. I think that therapy is another good thing. It is such a hard age in the first place as kids are trying to find their direction in life, so it might be something so beneficial to her.
Also, it might be a great time to let her get involved in other activities, sports, choir, music, dance, art classes, etc, in which she can do when you are at work so she is not home by herself with a lot on her plate to deal with by herself.
For you, are you going to get help for yourself through alanon? Or a therapist?
It is a good thing you are identifying the problem, now it is helping yourself, and your daughter. Your wife might seek help, and she might not.
Blessings to you and the decisions you have to make for your and your daughter.
I think that the table that was given can be misleading. Not all alcoholics drink tons and tons every night... maybe just two or three... but it is how that affects them in their lives. Two or three a night doesn't exclude them from being an alcoholic. The behaviors that go along with it might be the same as someone that drinks 10 to 12 a night... if that makes sense? So it doesn't matter if she is a, or b, or c, or d, or z! If it is affecting her life, your lives, and those around her, it is a problem even if it is two or three....
You, and especially your daughter, is not responsible for letting her know she is an alcoholic. She already knows this I am sure. She won't admit it. Most of them don't in the beginning for varying reasons.
Your job and your daughter's job is to try to maintain the healthiest life possible, even though your wife is not. It is important to understand her quacking and placing blame on those around her, so you know it is just that. It is so you do not internalize her words and actions as something that you did. She needs to own her responsibilities. She most likely will not, until she gets the help she needs. So in the meantime, it is you two living your lives as healthy as possible, even when she tries to pull you into the tornado.
I also worry about the bolt on the door. The rage that people can have, especially when drinking, and not getting their way. I can't imagine being your daughter on the other side of that door if the rage started. Banging, yelling, insults, threats, coming from the other side of the door.
I think it would be better to have a discussion as a family and your daughter states that at her age she wants some privacy and her room is that place, so if you as her parents can knock before coming in, etc... it would be appreciated.
On the other side of the fence, if your wife has hit her or physically abused her, it is time to leave. No ands, ifs or buts about it.
I think alateen, which has been suggested, is a great thing to get your daughter involved with. I think that therapy is another good thing. It is such a hard age in the first place as kids are trying to find their direction in life, so it might be something so beneficial to her.
Also, it might be a great time to let her get involved in other activities, sports, choir, music, dance, art classes, etc, in which she can do when you are at work so she is not home by herself with a lot on her plate to deal with by herself.
For you, are you going to get help for yourself through alanon? Or a therapist?
It is a good thing you are identifying the problem, now it is helping yourself, and your daughter. Your wife might seek help, and she might not.
Blessings to you and the decisions you have to make for your and your daughter.
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 256
Just my two cents, if you decide to put a bolt on the door so your DD can keep her mom out make sure that she has a way to contact someone via phone from inside her room in case her mom starts raging on the outside of the door and she needs some support.
I also would be concerned that if DD got hurt or very sick in her room and had the door bolted that there is someway to get into her room if there is an emergency.
I also would be concerned that if DD got hurt or very sick in her room and had the door bolted that there is someway to get into her room if there is an emergency.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 8
Thanks for the input everyone. Some useful points there. The conversation around how much my wife is drinking helped my daughter and I reach common understanding in that we both agreed it is way too much and some weeks are far worst than others. I will not bring up the subject again with her.
I have read the articles you suggest and now know where the local Alateen and Alanon services meet. The issue will be getting myself and my daughter there without my wife finding out as the meetings are in the evening. The lock on the bedroom door will be fitted and sold as part of my daughters 'right to privacy'. She has her mobile with her at all times and she can call many family members and friends who live locally if needed.
Thanks again.
I have read the articles you suggest and now know where the local Alateen and Alanon services meet. The issue will be getting myself and my daughter there without my wife finding out as the meetings are in the evening. The lock on the bedroom door will be fitted and sold as part of my daughters 'right to privacy'. She has her mobile with her at all times and she can call many family members and friends who live locally if needed.
Thanks again.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
Posts: 5,068
I think you did great, but 2 observations:
1) 120 units/week on average is 17 per day. That is much, much closer to a 4 than a 2 on the scale. In fact IMHO she is an alcoholic.
2) Alcoholics do not have to drink all day, every day. Alcoholics can go weeks or months without a drink, but once we do pick up - it's on! And lord knows when you'll get off that merry-go-round.
1) 120 units/week on average is 17 per day. That is much, much closer to a 4 than a 2 on the scale. In fact IMHO she is an alcoholic.
2) Alcoholics do not have to drink all day, every day. Alcoholics can go weeks or months without a drink, but once we do pick up - it's on! And lord knows when you'll get off that merry-go-round.
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 537
Big time kudos to you. I know how incredibly hard it is to have that first conversation with your child/ren about their alcoholic parent.
I'm a few months down the track of first talking to my kids about alcoholism. I have a 12 yo daughter so a similar age to your girl. One thing I have learned is that to KEEP talking about it is as important as having that first conversation. My daughter does a lot of thinking and takes time to process...things I think she has got I later find out that she hasn't, or has an odd slant on things, and then sometimes she'll bring up new thoughts and feelings that we need to talk about on an ongoing way. I also find with her and my 9 & 5 year old is that as their psyche develops or is ready for more information I need to provide it, and open a conversation as their understanding and feelings change or are ready for more.
I have a counsellor who is helping me with 'dialouging' with the kids. I am very solutions focused and she's helping me learn that I need to discover their thoughts and feelings and discuss, rather than just providing lots of factual information. I ask them lots of questions and help them work out what they are feelings or thinking at that moment.
I've also found I need to go over, and over, and over that this isnt their fault...they didn't cause this, it has nothing to do with them, they can't fix it, control it....it doesn't matter how good they are, or how angry they are, or how many facts they have....this is not about them. And that no matter what day's behaviour is like, he does love them...and that they can love him, whilst not liking or accepting his behaviour.
I thought the kids had this....but it goes DEEP. My 5 yo can tell me he knows this is nothing to do with him, but today he knocked a pot plant over and went to pieces. He was sobbing, really upset...and said "if I hadn't broken the plant daddy might want to not drink". I know your dd is 13 but I bet she harbours those thought too. I'm in my 40's and heck, I still have those feelings. Keep working with her on this.
Great job at raising the issue.....keep going, don't feel that you should never mention it again!
I'm a few months down the track of first talking to my kids about alcoholism. I have a 12 yo daughter so a similar age to your girl. One thing I have learned is that to KEEP talking about it is as important as having that first conversation. My daughter does a lot of thinking and takes time to process...things I think she has got I later find out that she hasn't, or has an odd slant on things, and then sometimes she'll bring up new thoughts and feelings that we need to talk about on an ongoing way. I also find with her and my 9 & 5 year old is that as their psyche develops or is ready for more information I need to provide it, and open a conversation as their understanding and feelings change or are ready for more.
I have a counsellor who is helping me with 'dialouging' with the kids. I am very solutions focused and she's helping me learn that I need to discover their thoughts and feelings and discuss, rather than just providing lots of factual information. I ask them lots of questions and help them work out what they are feelings or thinking at that moment.
I've also found I need to go over, and over, and over that this isnt their fault...they didn't cause this, it has nothing to do with them, they can't fix it, control it....it doesn't matter how good they are, or how angry they are, or how many facts they have....this is not about them. And that no matter what day's behaviour is like, he does love them...and that they can love him, whilst not liking or accepting his behaviour.
I thought the kids had this....but it goes DEEP. My 5 yo can tell me he knows this is nothing to do with him, but today he knocked a pot plant over and went to pieces. He was sobbing, really upset...and said "if I hadn't broken the plant daddy might want to not drink". I know your dd is 13 but I bet she harbours those thought too. I'm in my 40's and heck, I still have those feelings. Keep working with her on this.
Great job at raising the issue.....keep going, don't feel that you should never mention it again!
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 537
Oh and the other thing I thought I'd say is that protecting your wife from the discomfort of knowing her drinking is causing you to go to alanin and your daughter to alateen is NOT more important than getting you and your daughter the help and support you both need.
In fact it's protecting her from the concequences of her drinking which ultimately isn't helping her at all.
Hope that doesn't found harsh, but personally I've really been helped by folks on SR helping me challenge my own thoughts and decisions.
In fact it's protecting her from the concequences of her drinking which ultimately isn't helping her at all.
Hope that doesn't found harsh, but personally I've really been helped by folks on SR helping me challenge my own thoughts and decisions.
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by EnglishHusband
Thanks for the input everyone. Some useful points there. The conversation around how much my wife is drinking helped my daughter and I reach common understanding in that we both agreed it is way too much and some weeks are far worst than others. I will not bring up the subject again with her.
I have read the articles you suggest and now know where the local Alateen and Alanon services meet. The issue will be getting myself and my daughter there without my wife finding out as the meetings are in the evening. The lock on the bedroom door will be fitted and sold as part of my daughters 'right to privacy'. She has her mobile with her at all times and she can call many family members and friends who live locally if needed.
Thanks again.
I have read the articles you suggest and now know where the local Alateen and Alanon services meet. The issue will be getting myself and my daughter there without my wife finding out as the meetings are in the evening. The lock on the bedroom door will be fitted and sold as part of my daughters 'right to privacy'. She has her mobile with her at all times and she can call many family members and friends who live locally if needed.
Thanks again.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: OREGON
Posts: 228
The beauty of this is that you don't have to hide the fact that you and your daughter are going to alateen, and alanon. That doesn't need to be a secret. If she asks you why, you can say that you are getting help for you and your daughter, in which is the truth. Don't worry if she knows or not!!! You are working on you and your daughter is working on herself.... it is what is healthy. If your wife wants to work on herself, she is more than capable of doing so.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I encourage you not to hide the fact that you are going to Alanon/Alateen from your wife. I also encourage you to continue to converse w/your daughter about all of this, she obviously needs you as a support system, and that involves more than one conversation.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Your wife knows she has a problem.
You and your daughter know she has a problem.
Why would you not want help for your daughter? Of course you want help, and what the alcoholic says about you getting help is her issue. Let her stew in it. Yes, she'll pitch a fit - because you are looking for a solution and deep down she will know the solution will likely include her not drinking or you leaving.
You and your daughter know she has a problem.
Why would you not want help for your daughter? Of course you want help, and what the alcoholic says about you getting help is her issue. Let her stew in it. Yes, she'll pitch a fit - because you are looking for a solution and deep down she will know the solution will likely include her not drinking or you leaving.
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: OREGON
Posts: 228
Agreed about keeping an open line of communication open for your daughter and to not quit talking about it. Keep talking. If your wife does not stop drinking, it will get worse... it will progress. You need to keep talking as your feelings are going to change as well with each episode. Each occurrence. She is going to say and do things that hurt, even when you are detaching emotionally to protect yourselves from it, it still takes strength. I believe in strength on our own, but also in numbers. Look at this site... we all come here for support and strength, just as with therapy and alanon, alateen.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Attempting to model appropriate behavior with an A for a child's benefit can be challenging. However honesty and developing trust is important for all. I would tell your wife the truth compassionately... It would be a gift and opportunity for self reflection.
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