Stung

RAH and I are in the honeymoon period of his post rehab stay so we're trying really hard to stay on our own sides of the street and keep them clean. In an attempt to continue to do that, I'm coming here to hopefully let go of my fear, anxiety, and guilt.

Backstory: I haven't talked to my NPD mom in a few months now. I completely blocked her and more recently I unblocked her but I am just not responding to her calls or voicemails. I haven't even listened to her last voicemail because she triggers me so bad. The last time that we communicated she was telling me that she was going to have a relationship with only my daughters (who are 1 and 2 years old) and not me. In not so many words she told me that the things that we're happening in my life are deserved.

This morning she sent me a text that is classic gaslighting and NPD behavior. It was very short and said that she would like to be able to give my daughters their birthday presents (my youngest turned 1 in July, my oldest turns 3 next week) and celebrate with them. The last line of her text says "this seems very silly over something so small." Basically I need to get over my feelings because she's not getting what she wants: narcissistic supply.

There has been no apology. No request to talk things out. The message from her has been consistent: your feelings are wrong, I still want to see the girls so get out of my way.

I am starting to feel like maybe I am in the wrong because my almost 3 year old has said during the last two weeks that she misses grandma. Which I can understand, she's actually great with my kids, but she treats me like garbage. And my daughter's 3rd birthday is almost here, maybe I should just suck it up and get over it. Plus, my therapist is on vacation so I missed our session this week and I won't see her again until this coming Saturday. I went to an Al-anon meeting once where a woman said that she started going to Al-anon because of her husband but continued going because of her mom. That's exactly how I feel.

Thank you for allowing me to come here and let this out. I hate doubting my own feelings.

readerbaby71

Your feelings are perfectly valid. She is trying to manipulate you with the same old shi!t about how everything is your fault. I'm sorry, but you know there will never be any apologies from her. It's probably time to block her again. You don't need to be triggered like this, especially now when you and your husband are so fragile in early recovery.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It must hurt so much. Much love and hugs to you. xo

Also, she doesn't get to define what her relationship with your daughters will be. You do.

biminiblue

My mother died when I was 45. She never once validated any feeling or emotion I had and she went on to condescendingly comment on them any time I had real issue...like divorce or miscarriage. Always minimizing my pain and calling attention to how it made her so stressed out.

It never changed. I still doubt the validity of any feelings I have. Always. The only thing that worked for me was limited contact.

SeriousKarma

My concern, Stung, would be that she actually wants you to stay "in her way". That maybe she gets a charge out of yanking your chain.

Try not to second guess yourself. Your instincts are better than you think.

Having said that, the way I sometimes handle difficult decisions like this is to simply let someone else (like a trusted friend, sponsor, therapist) make it for me. It's my little spin on the First Step of Alanon. Since I am incapable of managing this one aspect of my life, I bring in some help. Otherwise my mind spins out of control and productive movement doesn't happen.

ShootingStar1

You get to decide what YOU want. Your mother does not.

From my experience, having a crazy mother who dissed me, be wary of triangles that they can create with your children. My mother loved to create triangles with other people in my family where she could align with them and blame me for whatever she wanted to at the moment. She got to blame me, and she got support from the other person, and she got to further hurt me by convincing them that I was wrong, bad, whatever her word of the moment was.

If you don't feel that you want your kids to see her, or if you don't feel comfortable dealing with her right now while so much else is going on in your life, there is no urgency to acede to her demands.

Take care of yourself and your daughters first.

ShootingStar1

TalenCrowhaven

Pardon me, but gag!!!

Your abuser has absolutely no rights to your children. Zip/Zero/None. Period. End of story.

Certain NPD mothers will only use your children as tools to provide themselves Narcissistic Supply and further hurt you in the process. Two birds with one stone. Nice.

Bottom line is, if they (NPDs) are toxic to you, they are toxic to your kids. Fortunately, your children are young enough to never really know her.

Please, feel free to PM me anytime.

(((Stung)))

EmmyG

Stung, I relate so much to this. Through therapy and a lot of reading, I understand more why I feel the way I do about my mother. She has never acknowledged my feelings. A few years ago, when I was pregnant with my youngest, I stopped talking to her. She showed up at my house unannounced. When I told her I needed time away from her, she said "I'll just tell everyone my daughter and grandson are dead, because that's what it's like. What did I DO to you???" My sister and I begged her to go to counseling with her and told her we really needed it. She went to one session. I feel like she is an emotional vampire with our kids. She loves the attention and the good parts, but NEVER is there for me to offer a hand with them in a real way. She says when I was a baby, I would always push her away when she tried to cuddle me. To this day, if she tries to hug me or rub my arm, I cringe. It took me years to figure out why, because to the outside she is this great mom. But it's just a front. I've never been able to talk to her about anything remotely real.

Follow your instincts and don't let the guilt get to you. If you feel that strongly, I'm sure there is a reason.

NWGRITS

Don't let her near the children. My own NPD and A mother went around telling people was going to adopt my son. Um, what the f*ck?!? My son adored her because she spoiled him rotten (DD didn't exist to AM), and he was the perfect source of narcissistic supply. DS still has delusions of grandeur about himself sometimes because she built him up so much in order to build herself up. It's going to be a long process of undoing that damage.

And the triangles. I don't miss that at all. Nobody for her to pit against each other now, since we all left her high and dry.

Stung

Thanks everyone.

I didn't respond to her and I was able to manage my emotions as to not try to lean on RAH. He has his own FOO garbage to deal with and both of our FOOs are on our own sides of the street.

I think it would be wise for me to block her again but I get a serious case of "what ifs" when I block her. Sadly, I also still look for validation from her too. I initially unblocked her thinking 'doesn't she miss me?' the answer is yes but no. She misses me as a narcissistic supply but apparently nothing more. I was talking to my therapist about my mom about a month ago and my therapist reminded me that my mom just isn't capable of showing me empathy because she doesn't feel it. She also does triangulation with all of our family and her friends. It leads to a lot of "everyone agrees with me" conversations. "Everyone thinks you're a worthless *******, ungrateful daughter, complete ****-up, etc. they all agree with me that you're wrong and that I'm doing everything that I can. You're just such a difficult person." But my al-anon friends are all like surrogate mom figures for me and they all give me the impression that I'm a pretty awesome daughter, which makes it gut wrenching to repeatedly hear my own mother telling me that she doesn't want a relationship with me. Yet, here she is calling and texting me weekly.

The worst part is that every time that I don't respond to my mom I fear that I'm making my punishment for this somehow worse. I cannot stop feeling like I'm going to be made to suffer because I'm not communicating with my mom. I know that my relationship with her has never been functioning or healthy but I feel like you're supposed to have a mom. I don't know exactly how she could punish me at this point but it doesn't stop me from fearing her. It's like I'm waiting for her to tell me I'm adopted and she never loved me anyway or something. IDK. I really hate that I don't know how to deal with her.

Florence

This is all very familiar.

My method is detachment and distance. I blocked her on Facebook, and I don't answer every text, and I don't answer every question. I don't look to her for validation or comfort. She is a lady who I've known for a VERY long time, she is old, and she can be a real jerk, but she's not always awful, and because I'm a single mom I need her for some stuff, and for better or worse, she delivers on this front.

But then there's stuff like this. This week, the anniversary of both my wedding day and the day I kicked out my XAH for the last time, a time which is a little fraught, she was texting me, asking me whether I remembered the "wedding of my former marriage." It was gross and I didn't respond. A couple of days later she showed up at the babysitter's house while I was there picking up DD3 and handed me a check for $500. Major trigger, major trigger. After I left the sitter, I called her and said, what was that about? She said, Oh, I know you're having a hard time. I said, but what's the check for? Never got an answer. I cashed it -- for better or worse, I don't turn down checks -- it's getting used to pay down debt.

People like this can be so damaging and confusing to kids -- and adults, heh. What I tell my older child is that people are a mixed bag and that in most situations you have the privilege of deciding how much or little you want to deal with them or reveal to them. So that's how I "deal with" my mom, by doing little. I try to neither be a source of supply nor a source of negative supply. I manage my expectations. I am no longer a wreck after holidays and while I sometimes long for a closer, more functional family life, I try to practice acceptance and appreciate what works and reject what doesn't.

When I started this process, she did what your mom was doing. She triangulated with other family members, who agreed with her that I'm selfish and difficult, she insulted me, undermined me, and baited me. It hurt, but I did nothing. I went on with my life, making decisions she continued and continues to disagree with. I wonder about her a lot, and I am still processing how my new reckoning with her has re-colored by perceptions of my childhood, in particular my teen years, but she has ceased to be a looming presence in my psyche.

hopeful4

Oh Stung, I am sorry. I don't have any gem of advise but want to let you know I am here, supporting you.

Tight Hugs!

redatlanta

What's wrong with replying "no. until you can (at the least) treat me respectfully and take accountability for your past actions you will not be seeing the girls"?

I can't imagine cutting a parent out of life, yet I know many who have and needed to. Perhaps as you and RAH grow stronger and closer you can eventually come up with a way to stand together and deal with her.

Part of this is the history of your relationship and how she has pushed your buttons. The response has to change. Its really the only way that you can possibly have a relationship with her.

Seems to me that seeing the kids is important to her - is it? Or is this just a way to niggle back into the fold? If she wants to see those kids bad enough, and is kept away from them long enough, perhaps she can learn to behave at least as far you are concerned.

Florence

My experience is that telling her to shape up or ship out was just me spinning my wheels. The only response that *could* change was mine. Any contact we have now and in the future will be about me maintaining my boundaries internally, and without any negotiations with her, because she's not capable of it.

Typically NPDs chill out with age, too. My mom is in her early seventies and between her aging and my attitude adjustment we can finally have fireworks-free interactions.

I have really limited our time hanging out together, and she is more careful in her interactions with me finally, after learning that crying and triangulating and lashing out don't work anymore. It took a couple of years. Family members picked sides. Having the kids around *is* really important to her -- whether for narcissistic supply or no -- and 90% of the time she has learned to ask and will only drop by with a treat after having called ahead (in the past she would have walked into my house and told me how it was going to be -- unacceptable!) for an hour or so. This is fine with me.

One big thing that made a real difference was talking to other family members about it. I wouldn't bring it up, but if they did I wouldn't hesitate to say that my mom had been a real source of difficulty for me and that she was challenging to deal with, and gave examples. People made excuses for her at first, then over time the cracks started to show through her own behavior. Some people will never come around (like one of my two sisters), so I have to decide how to interact with them going forward. OTher people have had similarly difficult interactions with her, and my talking about it happened to fill in the gaps.

I don't talk about NPD specifically, because I'm not a psychologist and the label is really just a way for ME to understand her and formulate methods of emotional and behavioral management. I also feel like laypeople get grossed out by the labels, and stop listening.

MissFixit

I wouldn't count on her behaving the way you want her to for very long, if she does at all.

My dad does this stuff too, although its more like ignoring me and not responding to me for months and then out of the blue he emails or calls with a sweet message, never addressing the horrible things he previously said or months/years since we last spoke/saw each other. I find it maddening and crazy-making.

For me I choose not to engage. I send bday cards, fathers day cards and xmas gifts, but have no meaningful communication. The cards/gifts are more to clear my conscious than anything else.

He is in europe for a month and i got a postcard from him. this is odd. I haven't received a trip postcard from him in maybe 10ish years. And he goes on lots of trips. It was sweet and lovey dovey, like what someone in a grace kelly movie would write. 2 months ago (our last communication) he left me a scathing voicemail saying that us working on our relationship was "worthless" and I should get over MY problems. Jerk. Oh well, I cannot win no matter what I do, so I choose not to play the game. It is my only way to save my sanity.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Stung

She thinks she is treating me respectfully. That's the thing. She won't treat me differently (because she isn't capable of treating me the way that I want her to) and she really does think that I'm in the wrong. She is trying in earnest to make me act and feel a certain way. It is the nearly definition of narcissistic supply.

She really does think that it's silly that my feelings are hurt. She sees me as a child, probably more like a teenager but still a juvenile person, and she's trying to teach me a lesson. I don't like being a 29 year old mother to two, who has put herself through college, has a gainful career and is doing a ton of work to repair my own emotional health and here she is telling me what's wrong with me and how she's going to teach me a lesson - after all, everyone agrees that I need to act differently. No one tells her that she's a problem besides me, which would clearly indicate that I really am the problem.

I don't have the serenity to accept her as she is, and I may never have that. I don't want a mother who is constantly trying to manipulate me or putting me down. But that's all I have. So my choices are accept her as she is or the current state. Neither of them feel good.

SparkleKitty

I don't think my AMom is NPD, but I do think she is incapable of seeing past her own despair. She tries the triangulation thing between her kids and her brother/sisters, but I stopped playing that game a long time ago. I hope my siblings eventually follow suit but that's on them.

I just wanted to say I am so excited you've signed up for an acting class. I learned as much training to be an actor as I did in therapy. It really helped me stop judging myself all the time (that might sound contradictory at first, but it isn't, I swear - when you are focused on just listening and responding to another actor you really do stop worrying about what to do with your hands), to explore the complexities of relationship dynamics, and to let go of the things I can't control. One of my old teachers used to say "it takes twenty years to become an actor" -- and it's only now 20 years later that I understand what he means. I used to think he meant you had to practice the craft and take classes for 20 years, but now I see he meant you have to have experiences to bring to your development of any character. You have to know YOU in order to behave honestly as someone else. Oh dear. I could go on, but this not the thread for that!

What I really want to say is ENJOY!