BlueChair

Yes we can disagree Dee. I think my understanding is very good and goes along with the in depth non 12 step counseling Ive had.

I think this phrase is often taken too literally "you make me drink" can also mean "you trigger me to drink"

Family can be a trigger. Poor family dynamics can be a trigger. Coming home to a wife who curses you out and throw skillets at your head can be a trigger.

The coping mechanism belongs to the person drinking or using, but the person who is cursing and throwing pans also has issues.

And they issues are not always related to codependency.

Just my opinion and as valid as yours.

AnvilheadII

The coping mechanism belongs to the person drinking or using, but the person who is cursing and throwing pans also has issues.


but whatever those ISSUES might be they do NOT force or cause the other to drink or use. the world does not arrange itself so the addict will not have issues with COPING. triggers are developed and defined BY the addict. no one else is responsible for another's addiction. even those who have born the brunt of horrific abuse, horrid circumstances, the worst case of bad luck ever....drinking and using are NOT solutions. sh!t happens...many just deal with it, roll with it...and some don't.

to think we have any ability to control or moderate the addictive behavior of another is complete EGO.

imho of course.

Dee74

Triggers aren't self determining tho.
We can choose to respond to them in a myriad of ways

'You trigger me to drink' is, to me, a total abrogation of my responsibility as an adult.

This really is my experience btw.
Nothing to do with dogma or schools of thought at all

I don't want to hijack the thread and I'll bow out now - but I think it's important the OP knows it's really not her fault.

Have a good weekend BC

D

readerbaby71

I always laugh at "the cat's birthday" excuse. It cracks me up every time!

BlueChair

my counselor didnt focus on ego. but your into 12 step right, do they focus on ego? I wouldnt know.

The point is sometimes the person using or drinking puts blame on anyone in their path and its an excuse. But sometimes when they say "you cause me to drink" they dont mean it literally. They mean "you trigger me and I drink".

cookiesncream

Lots of good insights here. Is everyone married to an addict a perfect person? Umm not to offend my s/o here but no. Is stress frequently a trigger? Ummm, raising hand GUILTY. Is life easier now that he is also focusing on his side of the street and we're not fighting like pit bulls? Ummm yes. Would I have been a heck of a lot smarter if I had looked in the mirror and developed my own boundaries rather than getting drunk? Ummm very much yes. However as Anvilhead and many others have said at the end of the day my addiction was MY PROBLEM. It was NOT his fault, it was MINE. It would be awfully nice if life was clear sailing all the way but it isn't. That said not your fault not your fault not your fault.

NWGRITS

IMO "you trigger me to drink" is just more blame-shifting and complete quacking BS to make the A feel better about their choosing to drink. It's still putting the burden of drinking onto someone other than the A. Nope. Not flying with me. You are not responsible for his drinking. Not one bit. He can't cope with life, and that's not your fault. No matter how good a wife you are, an alcoholic is going drink because that's just what they do. Period.

Santa

Blue chair, the OP stated up front that she has tried to be "good" so let's assume she isnt't cursing and throwing pans. What do you suggest she do to avoid triggering her alcoholic husband? I'd love to know.

LightInside

This is a great discussion.

If the partner makes the A drink, then the A could leave, right? Mine did and basically blamed his drinking on the relationship and some of it on my character defects. But then he kept drinking. It only took about 11 months for him to stick his a$$ in treatment.

I'm definitely on the side of each person being responsible for their own responses to triggers. Maybe we could even say that a person (any person who gets triggered) is really being triggered to experience an emotion, not to drink. The drinking is the chosen response to either alleviate or enhance the emotion. Saying an A can be triggered to drink is like saying a physical abuser is triggered to hit, a codependent is triggered to scream, "I f#@cking hate you," a proud parent is triggered to throw a graduation party. In actuality, the abuser and codependent are triggered to feel threatened or angry, but they choose the responses. The proud parent is triggered to feel proud and happy, but chooses the response as well.

I have some pretty awful character defects and I can see how I was hard to live with at times. A lot of us blame ourselves for having depression or other pretty bad problems. Still, healthy partners would be supportive and not blame. Healthy partners could get annoyed, angry, disappointed, saddened by our actions. Healthy partners would then use healthy communication and healthy coping mechanisms to deal with it.

I used to frequent an Al Anon mtg. where a lady would say, "There's a fourth C. We can contribute." We contribute by enabling, as far as I'm concerned.

My X and I were kind of a "perfect" dysfunctional fit. Half the blame I took on wasn't from him. It was from me. When we were told there was an abnormality in my son's fetal ultrasound, I immediately asked my midwife what I had done wrong (nothing). When our dog died a few months before the breakup, I went on and on about how it was my fault because I didn't take to the doctor a day sooner (it couldn't have been prevented). It might be good to think about how easily you put yourself into the scapegoat role in other life scenarios.

allforcnm

I agree this is a very interesting discussion

To Soverylost…

These are my opinins… if your husband is truly an alcoholic then it’s a medical condition. You didn’t cause it any more than you could cause him to have cancer.

Has your husband ever been to therapy, or had any professional treatment for his drinking issues? (Im sorry I havent read all your posts here). He does need to find out why he drinks… root cause is important to recovery.

The other questions I see coming to light in your thread is the topic of blaming you for his drinking… and the question if you are really triggering him to drink.

Carelessly throwing blame at you for his drinking is irresponsible, and at the end of the day he is the only one responsible for his responses to the happenings in his life, and in this case his drinking. However if he is an active alcoholic then his thinking and reasoning is compromised. So he will not always be logical.

But triggers are something different IMO.

If you are interested in delving into this subject… what are your husbands triggers, and can you do anything to change his pattern of behavior… then I would suggest looking to a method like CRAFT – Community Reinforcement and Family training which can be learned on its own, or as part of the SMART recovery program.

As a family member we generally have lots of information on what triggers our loved ones… we probably even see it coming in advance.. often times we react prior to the actual event, we become conditioned to respond a certain way… the drinker will then responds to us… and often by escaping with a drink. We do influence our loved ones and their behavior IMO.

This does not put blame on you, not at all...

The CRAFT method will teach you to examine both his behaviors and yours.. it can help you alter your actions and reactions.. Changing the pattern… and possibly changing his response… and drinking pattern.

The goal of Craft is to encourage loved ones to seek professional treatment, teaching you how not to enable but how to provide positive reinforcement for positive behavior.. AND the other important part of CRAFT is to help you take care of yourself, and prevent the false beliefs from overtaking you. You are not bad.. None of us are perfect, me specifically. LOL But Craft will help you examine your life also, perhaps you have been neglecting yourself in some way due to this situation? Setting goals, challenging yourself these are components of CRAFT.

So the topic is interesting to me because I have often questioned what the “I didn’t cause it “phrase means to family members ….and how this affects their behavior and attitudes.

If you are interested in CRAFT, you can google it. I would also suggest these books:

LadyinBC

I don't see any difference really, you can change the word excuse to trigger and it just means the same thing at the end of the day.

Just sounds like a work around to still place blame elsewhere. Why make it complicated? Just my opinion that is all.

allforcnm

Interesting.. I don't view triggers as excuses in my program, I see them as real psychological and biological reactions that happen due to stimuli.

We all have such varying ideas... what a helpful thread.

PinkCloudsCharley

Lol, to answer above, i rarely curse and I've never thrown a pan. I've thought of it but haven't. I did, however, throw a loaf of bread once. Wasn't that satisfying.

Throwing stuff and cursing is AH's game. And yelling, really loudly. Sarcasm and condescension work well for him too. Or at least he thinks they do.

So tonight he wasn't even drinking and I'm a horrible person. He's at a hotel that we can't afford. Tells me our family is over. All my fault because he didn't want me to talk to him and I did after four hours of leaving him alone. It's always my fault.

LadyinBC

It's interesting isn't it. I should have put in there the word me. For me triggers are nothing more than excuses. But like I said, I try not to make it complicated as I use to and can complicate almost anything if given the chance .

allforcnm

I don't think Bluechair was implying you threw pans... LOL I think she was replying in general terms to comments made by Dee about how bad behavior can be on both sides in certain situations.

Its not your fault he left Soverylost. Don't let him get in your head that way... At this point you can only control your reaction to his going to a hotel tonight.

Eauchiche

Saw an interesting post on Facebook the other day, debunking the old saying that God doesn't give us more than we can handle. The author contends that he DOES, so we will turn to him to relieve us of the burden.
What can we do when things are so bad, but turn to our higher power?

CodeJob

Alrighty, SVL wants to refuse the three C's. Why toss out such a bulwark of dealing with an A? Because somehow she is different? She has a magic wand and is able to trigger her A with a little flick of her wrist? Time to see you want to be a part of the drama. You are getting something out of it. Instead of using the available magic of the a Three C's you want to keep doing what you were doing?!

readerbaby71

Blue Chair never stated that the OP did anything to trigger her husband to drink. In fact, she never stated that anyone triggers anyone to drink, just that triggers are real. Addicts sometimes use their triggers as an excuse to drink, and she did not refute that. People DO affect (not cause) each other's behavior. I think she is being very misunderstood in this thread. Just because she has a differing opinion (that she has explained very well if you read all her posts), she does not deserve to be attacked or talked down to.

PinkCloudsCharley

Code, you're right. I need to figure out those three c's and start believing them. the only thing I'm getting out if this is stress. It's enough. I realized this morning that it has to change. I have to change.

I understand what BC was saying. I don't think BC was blaming anyone, just showing that our spouse can trigger when in a bad situation. BC didn't condone it, only explained it. I hadn't thought about things that way and I need to evaluate how i present myself. Either I need to set a boundary and stick to it, which I have problems doing, or i need to be supportive, whatever the situation calls for.

The situation, my situation, changes with me. I control it. I finally get it. It's crazy how i didn't see this before.

Santa

I wasn't attacking Blue Chair or talking down to her. I think 'cursing and throwing pans' as an example of triggers is simplistic and condescending. Who throws pans?

Some (many?) of us spent years as codependents trying to remove all triggers from our addict's environment....a sublimely frustrating, anxiety-producing, fruitless exercise. For someone to say that it may be the nonalcoholic spouse's entire personality that is a trigger - that borders on the blaming and shaming we hear from the addict. I think that is a very false and damaging concept. In fact it's a rage trigger for me. Just my opinion to which I also am entitled.