Waiting
Hammer,
It's been much improvement for me. I have regained my sanity, my serenity, my focus. I have regained my sense of humor and can laugh at myself again instead of taking everything so seriously. I have found new hobbies and rekindled old ones, and having money in the bank to do things I enjoy. Spent time with family I didn't spend time with while married. I no longer have butterflies in my stomach when I am driving home, wondering what kind of hell my night is going to be. I can make decisions again and stand firm in my boundaries. I know what I want out of life again, instead of trying to figure out how to make ends meet while all the money is being spent. I have seen the mistakes I made and no longer want to rescue someone from their own choices.
So yes I have gained a lot, and no she has had nothing to with it.
It's been much improvement for me. I have regained my sanity, my serenity, my focus. I have regained my sense of humor and can laugh at myself again instead of taking everything so seriously. I have found new hobbies and rekindled old ones, and having money in the bank to do things I enjoy. Spent time with family I didn't spend time with while married. I no longer have butterflies in my stomach when I am driving home, wondering what kind of hell my night is going to be. I can make decisions again and stand firm in my boundaries. I know what I want out of life again, instead of trying to figure out how to make ends meet while all the money is being spent. I have seen the mistakes I made and no longer want to rescue someone from their own choices.
So yes I have gained a lot, and no she has had nothing to with it.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,066
I think you're smart and are overthinking this actually.
I think you are afraid to act and are overwhelmed with the possible outcomes so you become too overwhelmed to act period and then find something to justify your arrested state.
I ask you, WHAT are you waiting for? She already filed for child support, you've met with a mediator. Sometimes, Hammer, the best defense really is a spectacular offense. Are you trying to reconcile with your RAW?
I think you are afraid to act and are overwhelmed with the possible outcomes so you become too overwhelmed to act period and then find something to justify your arrested state.
I ask you, WHAT are you waiting for? She already filed for child support, you've met with a mediator. Sometimes, Hammer, the best defense really is a spectacular offense. Are you trying to reconcile with your RAW?
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
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For me, waiting is always hand in hand with the Serenity Prayer. Whether or not it's prudent to wait in any given situation depends what's going on...
For example, life had taught me to wait a year after the end of a relationship before trying to start another one - that's because none that I'd attempted before that length of time had elapsed actually lasted more than a few weeks. I was interested to see that 12-Step programs advocate the same.
However, if it's a situation where I'm waiting and hoping that someone else will change... well, I learned not to do that one a long time ago!
For example, life had taught me to wait a year after the end of a relationship before trying to start another one - that's because none that I'd attempted before that length of time had elapsed actually lasted more than a few weeks. I was interested to see that 12-Step programs advocate the same.
However, if it's a situation where I'm waiting and hoping that someone else will change... well, I learned not to do that one a long time ago!
SOME of my prayers. SOME of the time. I have found that in strengthening my gut instincts & getting to a point where I trust MYSELF again I don't question the "when's" so much anymore. When it's right, I KNOW it & I don't fumble with 2nd guessing whether I am reading my signs correctly (as much).
I have a recovery saying for myself, "It's not that I *just* started hearing voices in my head (gut), I just started *listening* to them."
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Just to be contrary, I gotta point out that THIS is what stuck out to me ^^
SOME of my prayers. SOME of the time. I have found that in strengthening my gut instincts & getting to a point where I trust MYSELF again I don't question the "when's" so much anymore. When it's right, I KNOW it & I don't fumble with 2nd guessing whether I am reading my signs correctly (as much).
SOME of my prayers. SOME of the time. I have found that in strengthening my gut instincts & getting to a point where I trust MYSELF again I don't question the "when's" so much anymore. When it's right, I KNOW it & I don't fumble with 2nd guessing whether I am reading my signs correctly (as much).
I have a recovery saying for myself, "It's not that I *just* started hearing voices in my head (gut), I just started *listening* to them."
But this conversation with my sponsor goes about like this:
Sponsor: Thanks for the update. What is your plan?
Hammer: Plan? For me and the kids? I am sticking with God Airlines. I am pretty sure I checked the baggage all the way through to the end. And I have met some of the ground maintenance crew, and some of the Alananny Angel flight crew. I think we are in good hands.
(next day)
Hammer: Have pondered this a bit more. Plan. Hammer does not need one. God has one. Think I will just study His and copy His homework. His plan says "Wait on the LORD." I think I am good with that.
Sponsor: Ok. Remember to keep an eye for the signs.
Hammer: There are signs? I am just flying along on autopilot. Signs?
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I ask you, WHAT are you waiting for? She already filed for child support, you've met with a mediator. Sometimes, Hammer, the best defense really is a spectacular offense.
Good Gordies. Waiting on an A. Was caught in that for a while. Grim.
I do not really view this as defense/offense, but rather Sanity/Mental Illness. Having worked through the details. There is not a lot of Sanity of on the other side of things. Even less than I once thought.
There is a caution among military planners, generally attributed to Napoleon -- “Never interrupt when your opponent self-destructs”
Which sort of goes along with AA/Alanon philosophy of not saving the A from their consequences.
Are you trying to reconcile with your RAW?
Except Step #11.
It may make more sense when you get there.
I do not mean to be even a little dismissive in that, so my apologies in advance. But the view is quite spectacular.
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''so I was dismayed when a member suggested that I make no major changes for six months after coming to Al-Anon'' am not sure if I agree with this advice , what is the man is violent? People DIE from domestic violence , so wait 6 months and risk being killed?
Is there a different ''rule'' for domestic violence cases?
Surely you just do what feels right for you?
We all c*ck up and make mistakes but when is too soon and when is too long? It is a fine line I suppose and I do sometimes think of the ''what if's'' which is NOT helpful really
All I know is I had to leave when I did , the ''what if's'' are about what if I'd left sooner?
It is how it is right now I HATE how it is right now have already left the situation but the consequences live on and I have no CHOICE but to wait now and you are right , if I do something HASTY I usually regret it not because there is a time limit on it but because I want to PUSH things forward rather than wait patiently and the fear is ''I don't want to wait in vain'' but then I express the fear and pain etc and get everything else which goes with it off my chest and then there is some perspective to the suffering at least
Is there a different ''rule'' for domestic violence cases?
Surely you just do what feels right for you?
We all c*ck up and make mistakes but when is too soon and when is too long? It is a fine line I suppose and I do sometimes think of the ''what if's'' which is NOT helpful really
All I know is I had to leave when I did , the ''what if's'' are about what if I'd left sooner?
It is how it is right now I HATE how it is right now have already left the situation but the consequences live on and I have no CHOICE but to wait now and you are right , if I do something HASTY I usually regret it not because there is a time limit on it but because I want to PUSH things forward rather than wait patiently and the fear is ''I don't want to wait in vain'' but then I express the fear and pain etc and get everything else which goes with it off my chest and then there is some perspective to the suffering at least
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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Posts: 2,066
Except Step #11.
Let us know when God gives you your orders.
Hammer,
I don't know all the details of your situation and I don't think I fully understand what your asking.
Of course all of my problems were not because of the A. When I was living with her it was very hard to stand up to her and not give in to what she wanted, she would make life he'll for me. So that problem is solved.
I was miserable living with someone who needed to be taken care of like a child, I wasn't able to do things on my own without being pestered as if she was 3. I have rediscovered things I enjoy simply because I don't have to be at her beckon call. I can go to work without being called an a-hole because I didn't stay home with her for (enter some reason here).
I am happier without her, was she the reason I felt the way I did, no. Was she a major contributed to my misery, yes. I believe are the "signs" in my case.
As far as the napoleonic advice, I guess it depends on why you are waiting for the self destruction. In my case she is still self destructing, I don't want any part of it, I am happy alone. She isn't contributing to my happiness, all signs to act for me.
I don't know all the details of your situation and I don't think I fully understand what your asking.
Of course all of my problems were not because of the A. When I was living with her it was very hard to stand up to her and not give in to what she wanted, she would make life he'll for me. So that problem is solved.
I was miserable living with someone who needed to be taken care of like a child, I wasn't able to do things on my own without being pestered as if she was 3. I have rediscovered things I enjoy simply because I don't have to be at her beckon call. I can go to work without being called an a-hole because I didn't stay home with her for (enter some reason here).
I am happier without her, was she the reason I felt the way I did, no. Was she a major contributed to my misery, yes. I believe are the "signs" in my case.
As far as the napoleonic advice, I guess it depends on why you are waiting for the self destruction. In my case she is still self destructing, I don't want any part of it, I am happy alone. She isn't contributing to my happiness, all signs to act for me.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
''so I was dismayed when a member suggested that I make no major changes for six months after coming to Al-Anon'' am not sure if I agree with this advice , what is the man is violent? People DIE from domestic violence , so wait 6 months and risk being killed?
Is there a different ''rule'' for domestic violence cases?
Surely you just do what feels right for you?
We all c*ck up and make mistakes but when is too soon and when is too long? It is a fine line I suppose and I do sometimes think of the ''what if's'' which is NOT helpful really
All I know is I had to leave when I did , the ''what if's'' are about what if I'd left sooner?
It is how it is right now I HATE how it is right now have already left the situation but the consequences live on and I have no CHOICE but to wait now and you are right , if I do something HASTY I usually regret it not because there is a time limit on it but because I want to PUSH things forward rather than wait patiently and the fear is ''I don't want to wait in vain'' but then I express the fear and pain etc and get everything else which goes with it off my chest and then there is some perspective to the suffering at least
Is there a different ''rule'' for domestic violence cases?
Surely you just do what feels right for you?
We all c*ck up and make mistakes but when is too soon and when is too long? It is a fine line I suppose and I do sometimes think of the ''what if's'' which is NOT helpful really
All I know is I had to leave when I did , the ''what if's'' are about what if I'd left sooner?
It is how it is right now I HATE how it is right now have already left the situation but the consequences live on and I have no CHOICE but to wait now and you are right , if I do something HASTY I usually regret it not because there is a time limit on it but because I want to PUSH things forward rather than wait patiently and the fear is ''I don't want to wait in vain'' but then I express the fear and pain etc and get everything else which goes with it off my chest and then there is some perspective to the suffering at least
Question was -- when letting an A "experience the consequences" of their actions -- how far does one let things go?
Same as ISPAZ wisely stated. Do not allow others (other than the A) to come to harm. Do not allow children to be harmed. Do not allow innocent drivers, pedestrians, etc. to get harmed. Call 9-11 if the A is about to harm themselves.
It is really about ceasing to be a rescuer to an A. Do you know the Karpman Drama Triangle?
But as far as the A -- Since "Pain Drives the Train" as they say -- it is best to let the A feel the pain, as the pain (and response to) is what tends to drive an A's behavior.
But do you follow -- the whole "waiting" (on not), has Very Little to do with an A, at all? It is all about us.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Hammer,
I don't know all the details of your situation and I don't think I fully understand what your asking.
Of course all of my problems were not because of the A. When I was living with her it was very hard to stand up to her and not give in to what she wanted, she would make life he'll for me. So that problem is solved.
I was miserable living with someone who needed to be taken care of like a child, I wasn't able to do things on my own without being pestered as if she was 3. I have rediscovered things I enjoy simply because I don't have to be at her beckon call. I can go to work without being called an a-hole because I didn't stay home with her for (enter some reason here).
I am happier without her, was she the reason I felt the way I did, no. Was she a major contributed to my misery, yes. I believe are the "signs" in my case.
As far as the napoleonic advice, I guess it depends on why you are waiting for the self destruction. In my case she is still self destructing, I don't want any part of it, I am happy alone. She isn't contributing to my happiness, all signs to act for me.
I don't know all the details of your situation and I don't think I fully understand what your asking.
Of course all of my problems were not because of the A. When I was living with her it was very hard to stand up to her and not give in to what she wanted, she would make life he'll for me. So that problem is solved.
I was miserable living with someone who needed to be taken care of like a child, I wasn't able to do things on my own without being pestered as if she was 3. I have rediscovered things I enjoy simply because I don't have to be at her beckon call. I can go to work without being called an a-hole because I didn't stay home with her for (enter some reason here).
I am happier without her, was she the reason I felt the way I did, no. Was she a major contributed to my misery, yes. I believe are the "signs" in my case.
As far as the napoleonic advice, I guess it depends on why you are waiting for the self destruction. In my case she is still self destructing, I don't want any part of it, I am happy alone. She isn't contributing to my happiness, all signs to act for me.
Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get ... - Margalis Fjelstad - Google Books
Of course, she is not happy about her #1 Caretaker (me) ceasing his service to her. And so now her outrage.
For me, there is only one #1 Priority. It is the kids. None of the Kids are named Mrs. Hammer. So I know it is not about her.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Ha! MY sponsor said this is the only step you can do out of order. Truly, it's the only one I'm working on. Listen to God and try to hear God, then think about doing what you think God is suggesting to you. I just hope that I hear god and not me. Hard to tell the difference sometimes.
Let us know when God gives you your orders.
Let us know when God gives you your orders.
But as far as knowing My Will and My Way from His . . . it is easy for me to tell the difference.
At least it has always seemed so.
This is not my first rodeo.
We (God and I) sound VERY different.
Maybe something like this.
=================
Hammer: whine, whine, whine, whine. (that is what I sound like)
God: sit down. shut up. (at least that is how it starts)
Hammer: (hopefully I say) yes, Sir.
God: Got something for you. BOOM!
==============
Sing Along?
Bobby Bare Dropkick Me Jesus - YouTube
Gotcha hammer. I too have done a lot of reading on not care taking for BPD or NPD. As far as I know she isn't diagnosed but when I first discovered it and researched it more I felt like I was reading my autobiography, being a "non". Never wanted to diagnose her but you know the whole looks, walks and ducks theory.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Gotcha hammer. I too have done a lot of reading on not care taking for BPD or NPD. As far as I know she isn't diagnosed but when I first discovered it and researched it more I felt like I was reading my autobiography, being a "non". Never wanted to diagnose her but you know the whole looks, walks and ducks theory.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...er-thread.html
"I guess what they call a Non for me, and an undiag. BP or BP-traits for her. Not that I am trying to label any of it as one thing or another, just much shorter-hand than saying, Alcoholic+Addict+Self-Injury+Eating-Disordered, etc., etc. all in one package. We have been together about 12 years, so I know pretty much the whole deal."
How intriguing to discover one can do Step 11 out of order!? I looked at the intro on it here and I'm like - CHECK!
As for waiting. I can plot and wait for a sign fairly well. My plotting is most of the time now not obsessive. God gave me this mind and I figure I should use it. Meditating shuts off my self chatter almost always - even when I fall asleep like today. Prayer.. Well I do that for those who believe. I also have a few daily readers I cycle thru. Step 11 helps me wait.
Now near 17 mo sober, RAH and I are re-trying marriage counseling. I've been working my bum off in individual and Steps 4-5 so I'm not too worried about myself. If RAH can't wrestle his demons, I know my loneliness will spit me out eventually. I have two assessment time points set as I do need fair times to reflect. My level of serenity about this is mostly good. Step 11 truly helps with that too.
As for waiting. I can plot and wait for a sign fairly well. My plotting is most of the time now not obsessive. God gave me this mind and I figure I should use it. Meditating shuts off my self chatter almost always - even when I fall asleep like today. Prayer.. Well I do that for those who believe. I also have a few daily readers I cycle thru. Step 11 helps me wait.
Now near 17 mo sober, RAH and I are re-trying marriage counseling. I've been working my bum off in individual and Steps 4-5 so I'm not too worried about myself. If RAH can't wrestle his demons, I know my loneliness will spit me out eventually. I have two assessment time points set as I do need fair times to reflect. My level of serenity about this is mostly good. Step 11 truly helps with that too.
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Join Date: Jul 2014
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We all have to wait for what we want and need sometimes. However, I feel that as long as the argument is "I'm waiting because God will provide" that it stifles all discussion. I think it should be pointed out that a lot of damage can be done to our families while we're waiting for God to show us the way. As I believe Anvilhead pointed out earlier, it's also a good excuse for inaction (and put our children through suffering, as they have no choice) while waiting for our loved one to "change" or "sober up". Again, I realize it's impossible to argue with "I believe God wants me to do this", but there is a negative side to waiting. If you check out the ACOA forum, you can see some of that downside to "waiting".
I'm done waiting.
I'm done waiting.
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