God Never Gives You More Than You Can Handle

Old 09-10-2014, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Stung View Post
The world is just a chaotic, random place.
There is perfect order everywhere you look.

A tree being just one example.

Randomly pouring sawdust out a window, in a chaotic fashion, won't net you a tree.

The universe operates on immutable laws.

One of those is the reason you walk and don't float.
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Old 09-10-2014, 11:18 PM
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Have you done the enneagram? You must be a 1 too.

I just try so hard to find some kind of logical or rules based reasoning behind this stuff but there is none. I can ask "why" questions all day to the freaking Pope and there wouldn't be sufficient answers to satisfy me. I just don't understand God or what God does since I feel like God can't really do anything but yet causes some stuff but only good stuff. I get that I'm powerless over some things but there is so much responsibility on my shoulders that it makes it difficult to reconcile the differences between powerlessness and control. I am both things at the same time. So where's God?
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Old 09-10-2014, 11:49 PM
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Can I ask what your current beliefs are as to how life came to be on earth?
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Old 09-11-2014, 04:19 AM
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Stung - I have been struggling with much the same.

I had always been told that your 40's were great years free of the insecurities and drama of your 20's and 30's. I vote it the worst decade of my life. I wouldn't mind going back to my biggest problem being that I spent my bill money on a new pair of shoes.

I don't get told "God doesn't put more on you than you can handle" though I know that quote and did think it was in the Bible. I get told often "that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger". Puh-lease. The past two years in particular have just sucked. Both of my parents have been critically ill for 15 months, and I opened a new business at the same time with a lousy excuse of a human being.

As of late I find myself daydreaming of handing back all responsibilities I have in life, house, business, parents, husband, and just running away. It has given me perspective why people become homeless and/or become suicidal. I am neither of those things - yet I get why life becomes so overwhelming and tiresome that one would just give up.

I am spending more time on my relationship with God whom I always believed in, but didn't spend much time with. Perhaps that is the purpose of all this. I think what gets me through is that somewhere inside me I believe it will get better because I don't see a lot of room for it getting much worse. I do have faith that has not left me. I have compartmentalized my life into facets rather than looking at the whole. The whole has a black cloud over it yet the facets have areas of joy and happiness.

I do think I have the ability to make things better and I am trying. Its very hard when many days the only thing I want to do is stick my head in the sand and pretend for a day that everything is ok. It doesn't seem like that would be a bad thing to do for a day but then the day turns into dayS and its worse than before. The business I can control - the parents are a situation similar to yours with RAH that I have no control over rather feel like I am an aimless ball just rolling around and waiting to see what the day or week will bring. I begin my day at 630 looking at my phone to see if anyone is in the hospital or if an emergency has occurred. It sucks.

Anyway I will be saying some prayers for you that this period of life will make a turn because I believe it will. Get your rest - most important. Stress on top of no sleep and exhaustion is a bad cocktail.

Hoping things get better soon.
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Old 09-11-2014, 04:44 AM
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Stung, it took me 8 months to work out my concept of my Higher Power on Step 3. Most of that time was allowing myself to let go of my 'gang' affiliation. Some people feel you need to trot through the steps as if you will fall into the pit of despair. For me not being an A, I feel like the 12 steps is helping me systematically review my life processes and try to get rid of what really doesn't work. My concept of God was a mash up and not working for me. For me, I knew I had to take the time to work my HP out in my head at 3 or I'd be stuck when I got to 5,6,7....

I did a lot of thinking driving to and from work and when I couldn't sleep. I left my HP nebulous, which was a nod to my human limitations.

A lot of us here take a lot of faith from coincidence. But in actuality coincidence is scientifically in your numbers realm BUT the scientists also realize our brains are wired to seek meaning. This Radio Lab episode is quite entertaining about this issue.

Stochasticity - Radiolab

You'll work it out though it is unlikely to be a neat Excel spreadsheet or some sort of systems model. For you with young kids, you might want to decide do you want them raised in a faith community.

Anne Lamott has some irreverent books on her faith that you might like too. She writes with a bubbly enthusiasm so it isn't dry. This one thing in your life - faith - does not have to be orderly. It will fall into place, but it might always be a ball of yarn threatening to spill out of the basket and roll all over...

http://www.amazon.com/Traveling-Merc...B7N61J775A5HT4
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Old 09-11-2014, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by whalebelow2 View Post
Agreed Pete, it does seem odd that God would lend a hand to alcoholics but not cancer patients.

The only explanation I have is this.

The Big Book tells us that the problem is two fold, in our body & in our mind.

Perhaps & this is just my opinion, God brings about a "psychic" change, sufficient to be rid of the compulsion. As any alcoholic who has drank again after having that compulsion removed, can tell you, the physical side of it certainly isn't removed.

Maybe that is the difference. Mental or Psychic change vs Physical.

I don't know, it is only the thing that seems to make any sense.

Is that a choice God makes or is it something he cannot effect on earth ie: physical change ?

Again, I don't know.

I know when my Father died, my faith as to where, I believe, his soul was going, gave me great comfort. Hardly a tear.
i know when my mum and dad died and i was sober at the time i hurt, i cried, i felt lost and empty for a while but it passed, i certainly wasnt tortured the way i have been over my son
i certainly never question gods existence the way i do today etc
when my parent died it was a natural process its the way life should be we live have kids and die and they go on

i can not really put into words how empty life becomes when your child is gone i love my kids more than anything in the world, i am there god as they need me and depend on me to put things right when there wrong, to make them feel safe, to look after them etc

then to have one of the kids suffer with an illness i can do nothing about nor can anyone else in the world and you have to just be there for them and watch it unfold
well it certainly does open your eyes to suffering in the world that is going on all around

i can not turn a blind eye to it anymore like i used to when it hadnt happened to me

can you just picture what my posts would look and read like had my son been saved ?
i would be posting up that my son had been saved from an incurable illness and only a god could of made that possible and i would believe it with all my heart, like others do who have had the luck on there side

so its me who has had to make sense of a hp v a god and as far as my alcoholism goes aa treats that and helps me live with it, the fellowship of aa never promised me my kids wouldnt die if i came along, but what they do tell me is if things go wrong in my life i never have to pick up a drink on it again ever no matter what goes on

in my case its true i have never wanted or needed a drink all the way through my sons ordeal and even after he died
i wanted to die and not live anymore but i never wanted to drink

i am not a super human i am just a drunk who got sober thanks to aa and who has worked his steps and lives a program in his life daily
there is a change in me today than there was 10 years ago i dont think the same nor react the same but its been a long process of working on me and coping with things that come up along the way in a different way than normal

hence i believe i can not do this on my own i need help and for this drunk even admitting i need help and opening up to anyone is a huge turn around

the key i believe is faith i have faith in aa the fellowship of aa, and what it stands for and the principles behind the steps

try to be good and kind, try to think of others, help if i can, when i can start to live a life were its not all about me me me then i am living the way i should in my eyes
the problem is no matter how much i try to not live me me me its always there just i am a little bit better at it today where i can think of how others feel rather than me

but i will never be perfect ever and i will still upset people or get cross but today i dont have to spend all day living like that i can stop it and say sorry and get back on with trying to live good

after 10 years i am a bit better than i was and i hope i can still grow and learn and get better
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Old 09-11-2014, 09:01 PM
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Can I ask what your current beliefs are as to how life came to be on earth?
All joking aside, I really don't have an opinion - and that's a good thing because THOSE are the kinds of questions that will lead me AWAY from the God concept. I'm stuck on WHYS and personally, I believe science does a better job explaining that particular why than the Bible does - and I'm too self absorbed right now to give any real thought or argument to that question, I want to fix my problems not ruminate on the origin of life. That doesn't help fix my problems. No offense if you disagree with me and I don't knock anyone else that believes differently than I do. I just don't think God is responsible for ALL of space and time. I just don't. And that's okay. And I don't need to reconcile those two principles and beliefs (that God is all powerful but not responsible for his own creation and the creation of all matter, sorry God, I choose Egg over Chicken) and I don't know who has the authority to tell me otherwise. Except for God, and if he wants to smack me upside the head and tell me how it is, I welcome the smack.

Red - Big hugs, lady. I'm on the same page as you with wanting to run away. My only draw back is that I know that I'm the real problem here so my problems are guaranteed to follow me wherever I go. That doesn't stop me from daydreaming about how my life could be in a few years though. Right now it's just tough.

CodeJob - The community aspect is actually the most attractive component of organized religion for me. But because I don't know what I want for myself in this realm I feel a little sheepish pushing them into any one religion. Maybe I can do an annual rotation of religions with myself and my kids, one year we'll explore Judism, the next Methodist, the next Muslim - but I'm definitively anti-Catholic until they allow women to be priests or the Pope. There is no way I'm teaching my daughters that a penis makes you closer to God than those born without a penis. I look forward to the day that the Pope addresses that one.

What I think I'm really struggling with here is cause. I am really having the concept drilled into me that I'm not powerful enough to cause the crap that is happening in my life - RAH and his drinking, NPD mom, severe food allergies in my youngest daughter. And while I readily and now happily accept that I am powerless over RAH, his choice for recovery, and if and how he chooses to follow his recovery that is all eclipsed by my baby daughter and these freaking food allergies. I think I can accept that I didn't cause her to have food allergies and I think I can accept that it's not my fault that there are so many of them or that they're so severe but if it's not my fault then I either want to blame God or it's not God and it's just random. This is just life.

Let's say that God didn't cause her to have allergies either I'm looking at God for an answer and God shrugs his shoulders at me - Not My Fault Either! - then we'll say it can eventually be explained by science because it can't be explained by science YET - but where is God right now in all of this then? My kid is hyper sensitive to damn near every food group to the point of anaphylaxis and I can't find God in any of this. God didn't cause it, God can't cure it, I didn't cause it, I most certainly cannot cure it because if I could I would give everything I have to cure it and I feel like I'm left here controlling it because I have to, there literally are no other options. I just don't understand what God does if God doesn't cause things or cure things.
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Old 09-11-2014, 09:58 PM
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Actually, scratch all of that. I remember that my sponsor told me that she views God as the ultimate mothering figure. God doesn't cause things or cure things but God is always there to comfort you if you welcome God into your life. She thinks that God looks at me the same way that I look at my kids except that God is way more hands off with me than I am with my kids.

I need to get out of blame mode and move forward. ugh.
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Old 09-11-2014, 11:25 PM
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Science has no more concrete proof on the origins of life than believers have concrete evidence of God.

Abiogenesis has been attempted many times by science.

What there is 100% concrete evidence of, everywhere we look on this planet, is that life MUST come from life.

Quite simply, Creation, should, based on the overwhelmingly abundant evidence that we have, be the default standpoint.

Most theologians agree, the Bible is allegory, not to be read as a literal account.

The only people who like to read literally of the Bible, are fundamentalists and Atheists.

The latter like to make fun of the former for doing so, ironic no?
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Old 09-12-2014, 01:45 AM
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desypete I'm really sorry for what you've been through. I cannot imagine losing a child. xx
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Old 09-12-2014, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Stung View Post
I just don't understand what God does if God doesn't cause things or cure things.
Stung, as far as I can tell -- The Steps are soooo simple, that just about ANYONE -- except a Religious Person can follow them.

More generally it seems to be US (and Religious Folks) that cannot cure.

From my 3rd Grade Reading of Step #6 and #7 -- God CAN and DOES cure things.

#6 Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

#7 Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

Maybe hit the Big Book a bit? From Chapter 5 "How it Works"

================


Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after, have been designed to sell you three pertinent ideas:

(a) That you are alcoholic and cannot manage your own life.
(b) That probably no human power can relieve your alcoholism.
(c) That God can and will.

If you are not convinced on these vital issues, you ought to re-read the book to this point or else throw it away!

===================
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Old 09-12-2014, 03:51 AM
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The only people who like to read literally of the Bible, are fundamentalists and Atheists.

The latter like to make fun of the former for doing so, ironic no?
Not sure if you're calling me an atheist. I'm just anti authoritarian. Don't tell me what to believe and we'll be cool.

#6 Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

#7 Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
Maybe it's because I'm an a-hole, but this talks about us doing things, not God. Just because you ask God to do things doesn't mean God WILL or CAN do them. I'm ready for God to do lots of things and I've asked God to do them. Maybe those steps are about humility rather than literal action? I'll have to ask my sponsor.

At any rate, the Big Book is just a book. It could say that God likes to breakdance on Tuesdays and just because it says it doesn't make it a fact. And obviously individual opinions and experiences on whether God can cause and cure will vary.

I think maybe all God can and will do is comfort people. Honestly, if that's what I'm going to get from God it teaches me a lesson in expectations of myself and others. I think step 6 and 7 are about being honest with yourself and humbling yourself enough to do those things in a meaningful way, beyond just asking for a quick fix. I don't think God is capable of changing people or he would change a lot of REALLY bad people. I do however think we're capable of changing ourselves through diligent hard work and experiences. God is just there holding your hand through it all, gently trying to remind you that you're loved. God cannot remove my a-holeness, I can choose to be more aware of it and keep it in check. God loves me whether I'm actively being an a-hole or not.
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Old 09-12-2014, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Stung View Post

my sponsor told me that she views God as the ultimate mothering figure
For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. — Romans 8:15-16

And the Number One verse regarding the love of the Father is this amazing truth– no matter how far you have wondered, you can still come home! Regarding the prodigal son, Jesus tells us:

1. “When he came to his senses, he said… “I will set out and go back to my father” –Luke 15:17


MM
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Old 09-12-2014, 04:24 AM
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The best I can figure out is this. I used to think or question the existence of God based on WHYS - why do children suffer? why do human beings starve? Why does a Tsunami wipe out a population and the like. For a kind God then its hard to compute that an entity that created and loves doesn't stop those things.

Secondly I would question when my prayers weren't answered. I think we all know that praying for a winning lotto ticket isn't going to happen - yet reasonable prayers such as "heal my parents", well why not? Why not a miracle?

Over the years I came to realize that I was thinking and praying all wrong, so my relationship with God was wrong. As to why bad things happen I concluded that I don't need to know why bad things happen, any more than I need to delve into why good things happen which no one ever questions, but is the same question. We are given free will to live which is a gift; therefore, the Yin and Yang is that both good and bad things will happen in our lives and the lives of others.

As for prayer and praying for needs - I stopped praying for specific needs to be met. I just don't think it works that way. I think its more like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz when the good witch tells her she always had the power to go home she just didn't know it. I believe we all have the power within ourselves to accomplish and survive what needs to be done. Now I pray for guidance rather than to wake up and everything be fixed (though I still fall into that pattern at times and have in the past year). I believe that God is gracious in giving us a fairly clear road map and signs of what we should be doing. The more we hand that over to him and open up to faith the better our lives become.

I had every sign in the world that my business partner needed to go pretty early in. I ignored it and tried to manage it. I prayed that God would fix it. God couldn't fix my business partner because he has free will to live his life however he chooses. What God did do is reveal to me what was happening. This cycle of praying for my business partner to change (and he got worse) only made me angry. I should have been praying for guidance toward accomplishment. Business partner was the problem in achieving it and God showed me that every-single-day, I just chose to ignore it.

Thank you for starting this thread Stung. I always go into a funk when my parents are hospitalized which happened for the past two weeks. What everyone has said here, and spending a little introspective time on where I am spiritually, has pulled me out of the negative zone. I appreciate it!
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Old 09-12-2014, 05:33 AM
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I'm an atheist. I love the spiritual. I dislike the supernatural. For me, spirituality are the feelings of being connected to a larger group or idea or thing, the feeling of my cup overflowing, feeling grateful to be alive in this world. The supernatural? Stuff like transubstantiation and dead rising. I can't grok it. I'm fascinated that you can pull a giant otherworldy crystal out of a dark cave, and that it took thousands of years to develop. The existence of everything from dragonflies to silver is unfathomable to me.

So, I say I'm non-supernatural having signed up to have a PALM READING this weekend. Why? It's close to Halloween, and my BFF gets morose this time of year and likes to go on adventures, and this is one of them. It hurts nobody, it's campy, it's fun, it might even freak me out a little. I'm in this for experiences.

Maybe I'm not an atheist, I'm a Grecian Urnist: "Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all / Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know."

Tonight I'm attending a memorial service and fundraiser for a friend of mine who died this spring. He was a young man, about 35, and was traveling the country on his bike, shooting a movie about how biking changes communities. He was a really wonderful and positive guy -- so far as most of us knew -- but he committed suicide by himself in the middle of nowhere in an extremely jarring and violent way. His family, who are wonderful and beautiful despite grieving in this very public way, is trying to get the movie completed. Whenever I think of all this it's so damn bittersweet -- he was so loved and yet he is gone. It's just life. One of our friends just the other night said, "I'm sick of people dying!" and we all knew what he meant, but you know, this is how it is. We all get a slice, don't know how big or little it is until it's gone.
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Old 09-12-2014, 05:35 AM
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Oh Stung, thinking through all of this for me (is) part of the process. This is such an intriguing thread!

DS first went to a Nazarene church youth program where my neighbor belonged. She and her husband kindly drove him and a bunch of other kids each week! He loved it and he was in a few holiday musical pieces too so I attended their services several times over the years. This group had a knock out children's program. They had weekly programming and a children's service running tandem to their adult service. They had a full time children's pastor. I was OK staying right there, but I had conceded to my H that if we had a boy - we'd raise him Catholic.

But I absolutely agree with you to find a 'gang' with a great children's program! My DS & I plan to experience some different faiths after he confirms next May. We have told him he will have a base, and he can find his own path...

It is a journey. Ask around and you'll find a church with a great kid program.

Oh Mountainbob my H and I often talk about the parable of the Prodigal Son. It makes me so MAD that the 'good' son gets dissed. He is there doing the right thing and it is the loser who gets a party after blowing his inheritance? My H just chuckles and says it always comes down to money with your family. Well being loyal has NOT been particularly rewarded in my FOO. My 'place' in my FOO has not been respected. Who gets money & attention IS how power flows in my family. So of course I am self righteous and every time this is the gospel I want to cry out, let's talk about the insulted son here! In my family it is not my father who is in charge. The word of law in my family comes down through the mother. I'm sure all the women in the kitchen are spouting off what a waste and what a dumba-- the patriarchal father is in this parable! I wouldn't be surprised if they said, let's swap out the calf as this party is a serious waste of resources...

Perhaps the Bible best describes who is in control in the OT story of Jacob snagging his father's blessing thanks to his wily mom Rebekah. Mom might have no true authority but women make things happen. Women are scrappy despite having the downfall of man blamed on us.

You'll figure it out Stung. I have faith in you!
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Old 09-12-2014, 05:43 AM
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I see people "get" more than they can handle...all the time. It is what it is. Life on life's terms.

We can only change our perceptions, thoughts, and actions. That is where the work is.
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Old 09-12-2014, 06:31 AM
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I think I stand a better chance of teaching my dog how to play poker, than any chance of helping you out here Stung.

Good luck with it all.
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Old 09-12-2014, 07:23 AM
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Thank you soooooooooo much for this! #goldmine!

Over the years I came to realize that I was thinking and praying all wrong, so my relationship with God was wrong. As to why bad things happen I concluded that I don't need to know why bad things happen, any more than I need to delve into why good things happen which no one ever questions, but is the same question. We are given free will to live which is a gift; therefore, the Yin and Yang is that both good and bad things will happen in our lives and the lives of others.

As for prayer and praying for needs - I stopped praying for specific needs to be met. I just don't think it works that way. I think its more like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz when the good witch tells her she always had the power to go home she just didn't know it. I believe we all have the power within ourselves to accomplish and survive what needs to be done. Now I pray for guidance rather than to wake up and everything be fixed (though I still fall into that pattern at times and have in the past year). I believe that God is gracious in giving us a fairly clear road map and signs of what we should be doing. The more we hand that over to him and open up to faith the better our lives become.

I had every sign in the world that my business partner needed to go pretty early in. I ignored it and tried to manage it. I prayed that God would fix it. God couldn't fix my business partner because he has free will to live his life however he chooses. What God did do is reveal to me what was happening. This cycle of praying for my business partner to change (and he got worse) only made me angry. I should have been praying for guidance toward accomplishment. Business partner was the problem in achieving it and God showed me that every-single-day, I just chose to ignore it.
I think the only part that still gets me is the idea of handing things over to God. I need to think about that a little bit more and what that means. I get to meet with my sponsor next week and I look forward to asking her more about this stuff. I get the powerlessness stuff but I think that's more about free will and happen chance more than God. IDK. I have to think on this.

I think I stand a better chance of teaching my dog how to play poker, than any chance of helping you out here Stung.
Goodness, that was rude. I hope you realize that you weren't tasked with either chore and you're inability to do either is not a reflection of you. That comment on the other hand, that's all you. Like I said, don't tell me how to believe and we'll be cool. I am very open minded when it comes to hearing what you believe.
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Old 09-12-2014, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by redatlanta View Post
Over the years I came to realize that I was thinking and praying all wrong, so my relationship with God was wrong. As to why bad things happen I concluded that I don't need to know why bad things happen, any more than I need to delve into why good things happen which no one ever questions, but is the same question. We are given free will to live which is a gift; therefore, the Yin and Yang is that both good and bad things will happen in our lives and the lives of others.

As for prayer and praying for needs - I stopped praying for specific needs to be met. I just don't think it works that way. I think its more like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz when the good witch tells her she always had the power to go home she just didn't know it. I believe we all have the power within ourselves to accomplish and survive what needs to be done. Now I pray for guidance rather than to wake up and everything be fixed (though I still fall into that pattern at times and have in the past year). I believe that God is gracious in giving us a fairly clear road map and signs of what we should be doing. The more we hand that over to him and open up to faith the better our lives become.

I had every sign in the world that my business partner needed to go pretty early in. I ignored it and tried to manage it. I prayed that God would fix it. God couldn't fix my business partner because he has free will to live his life however he chooses. What God did do is reveal to me what was happening. This cycle of praying for my business partner to change (and he got worse) only made me angry. I should have been praying for guidance toward accomplishment. Business partner was the problem in achieving it and God showed me that every-single-day, I just chose to ignore it.
^ This. I learned that ~for myself~ I wasn't connecting with the idea of God for many reasons.... one being raised with crazy religious hypocrisy within my own extended family (incredibly confusing, "do as I say not as I do" type of BS) and another being that I was asking for all the wrong things. I was expecting miracles & when those miracles didn't arrive I just felt let down... and there's only so many times I'll keep going to a dry fountain before I look for another source of water. My prayers now are more in line with Red's - I pray for the wisdom to see the signs in my path, I pray for the greatest good to occur within a situation, even if it doesn't seem like the *right* answer to me at the time. That means I have to have faith that *I* don't always know what's right for every person/situation, including myself at times.

A 3rd reason was that I never found COMFORT in religion in the way that I think people should, the way that those that DO have blind faith find for themselves inside their belief system. I felt measured & judged, not comforted. When I expanded my view of religion to include all things spiritual I sorta found comfort in the chaos & freedom in the creative ways it opened me up to express myself spiritually. That there can be no single right answer, that we are all just scurrying across this planet trying to make the best of each day, not knowing how much time we have to enjoy it... and as long as we are doing it peaceably, I don't care how we individually find that peace.

Seriously, The Shack! It isn't earth-shattering but it may shift your perception here by just 1 degree, and sometimes that's all you need to start that domino effect that creates change in your POV. As always, just my $.02. Again.
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