meggygoround30

This is a long rambling post about domestic violence and alcoholism. I go to a DV support group which is amazing, I don't know how I would have survived the past few months without it. But it seems like a lot of the abusers they talk about are narcissistic. And I feel like my experience is a little different because I was with an alcoholic who really seemed to turn abusive after the alcoholism really changed him.

My XAB did have warning signs, such as being very intense, professing his love for me right away, was very charming- I ignored my gut instinct maybe he isn't right for me. I was extremely naive and lonely when I met him. I thought he would grow out of it. But then his alcoholism began. Well I suppose it started before I met him, but he was only 19 and I know it got A LOT worse when he turned 21 and we got an apartment together.


It first started with punching holes in the walls. He didn't start physically abusing me until a year after we moved in together, when he lost his job because he would go to work drunk all the time.

I'm really confused about the alcoholic vs the abuser. I know alcoholism doesn't cause the violence, it's a choice and is about power and control. But how much of an effect, scientifically, does it have on the brain? Actions speak louder than words, he apologized but continued the abuse and with more severity each time. It was definitely Jekyll and Hyde. He was manipulative, as all alcoholics are. But when he was depressed, I felt like that wasn't him trying to make me feel bad for him, I felt like he was hurting so much and needed love desperately (even though the only love he needs is for himself, he's his own worst enemy). There were times when he was sobbing in frustration and emotional pain to have to suffer this horrible disease. I wanted so badly to take his pain away. We're his tears just a game to get me to stick around and be the enabler?

I don't know if anyone can relate or grasp what I'm trying to say. I am trying to forgive myself for being part of the problem- enabling, frantically searching for bottles, calling him a loser and piece of **** constantly (that kills me because I know he didn't need anyone else telling him he's a loser, he already felt that way), throwing things and shaking his head trying to "wake him up" out of anger, frustration, and not understanding. I know now I should have set boundaries but I was so caught up in the emotions.

I guess what I'm asking is- how much does alcoholism effect a person who is very angry at the world and at himself, and someone who has abusive personality traits? I go from being angry that he was abusive, to feeling compassion because he was such a broken person. I know there is NEVER an excuse for abuse, but it's so hard to understand that when someone is under the influence.

As far as I know he is almost 9 months sober, which is great. I am trying extremely hard to not care but it's so hard because I really do despite the pain he caused. I know he's engaged to another recovering addict, apparently she's two years sober. I don't know how that will work out, I don't know how much accountability he has over how he treated me. I don't have any control over it and am trying to focus on myself- what I CAN control and what I have learned I need to work on within myself.

NWGRITS

Honestly, he was probably the same at 19 as he was at 21. You just weren't living with him every day, so this all seemed "new" to you. That's usually how it goes. They present themselves as sweet, charming, and all about you. And then you move in together and they've already got you hooked, so they can drop the charade. That's how abuse generally works. You get conditioned, they get control, and the dance continues until you either leave or you're dead.

Alcoholism and abuse are two separate things. He was already abusive when you met. He was already drinking when you met. Chances are you weren't the first to be exposed to his dark side, and you likely aren't the last, either. Unless he's working on what makes him feel he can abuse women, it doesn't matter if he's sober 20 years. He'll still be an abuser. None of this is your fault, and what happens to the new gf isn't your problem. (((HUGS)))

ladyscribbler

I understand. My ex wasn't narcissistic (at least not on the level of personality disorder) and he really did change from when I first met him. He suffered three separate TBIs while we were deployed (I met him while we were training together, getting ready to deploy). The alcohol issues run in his family, but I never saw the violence until the alcohol really took hold of him. Drinking truly changed him into a different person. Combined with the brain damage it really accelerated the course of his disease.
On my part, I was so used to living in a war zone that the raging and adrenaline rushes seemed normal to me for a long time. I had a lot of my own unresolved issues that contributed to the situation. On many occasions I was violent in return, and sometimes I even attacked him unprovoked.
(brain damage+PTSD+alcohol) + (PTSD+codependency+anger issues) = a bad relationship

CodeJob

Meg,

At the end, this man is both an alcoholic and an abuser. Although you are kind and compassionate, you correctly see that only he can repair his own lack of self love. He is of one body and mind and only he can make a run at stabilizing himself.

In my situation, I focus on what did I think I would get by saving such a fellow? Did I really think I was his answer? Did I really think saving him was going to save me? Best to work on me so Ido t follow that life plan again.

meggygoround30

I reread all of my previous posts and the stickes about abuse. I think I need to constantly tell myself the reality of who he is because it's still hard to not blame the alcoholism. tough love for myself.

NWGRITS

It sounds ridiculous, but keeping a list of reasons why you left can be really helpful when you start missing him. Literally make a list of alkyl those horrible words and actions and carry it with you everywhere. When you start feeling weak, pull it out and read it. I decided to finally really leave my ex-husband because of one seemingly insignificant incident in a grocery checkout line. It was that one simple reminder of his behavior that screamed at me. I wasn't willing to live with unacceptable behavior any longer. And neither are you.

Ifnotforgrace

There is the substance and there is the personality of an individual.. both affect a persons actions. Alcoholism is a lot like the devil, it gets a lot of credit for what is simply a poor choice of an individual.

If we believe in the good in people I wonder why it is so hard for us to believe there are people who are not so good. Just because I value something..does not mean it has to hold value in your eyes, even if it be a characteristic like honesty.

Judge a person by their actions not their words, for it is action that speaks the truth-all else is just rhetoric. Love does not harm it's partner..not verbally, emotionally and certainly not physically or sexually. Whatever trauma bond you have..it does not equal a healthy loving relationship if it involves one person causing the other repeated pain and it needs to be dissolved ASAP.

PurpleWilder

This is from a very old previous post of mine in another thread but fits what you are asking....

There is a book called, "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men". It is written by a man who has spent many, many years working with men sentenced by courts to take domestic violence counseling. The author is honest, savvy and to the point. My DV counselor photocopied the first 3 chapters and gave them to me; I soon bought the whole book which is now dogeared and pencilmarked. An excellent book that I wholeheartedly recommend.


Here is a quote directly from the book that I posted a million years ago - I skimmed through my old posts because I think it would be very helpful to you at this point:

If your partner's behavior becomes much worse when he's intoxicated you may tend to focus your attention on trying to manage his drinking so that you never fully realize how abusive he is when he's sober. His substance abuse problems can thereby create a huge diversion from critical issues.

Alcohol does not change a person's fundamental value system. People's personalities when intoxicated, even though somewhat altered, still bear some relationship to who they are when they are sober. When you drink you may behave in ways that are silly or embarassing....but do you knock over old ladies for a laugh? Probably not. Do you sexually assault the clerk at the convenience store. Unlikely. People's conduct while intoxicated continues to be governed by their core foundation of beliefs and attidudes, even though there is some loosening of the structure. Alcohol encourages people to let loose what they already have simmering below the surface."

--Lundy Bancroft

TonightTonight

Oh sweetie. First, I'm so so sorry that you had to go through that, and I am glad you are out of that situation. You've already had some great and very helpful responses. I just wanted to let you know that I too have wondered about alcoholism's contribution to abuse, how it all works etc.

Sure, alcohol does lower inhibitions, as others have pointed out. And I think there's a pretty large statistic that a high % of domestic violence occurs under the influence. But while discussing alcoholism and abuse, some friends of mine have gotten upset as they have very loving caring people in their lives who are alcoholics and are not abusers. I'm glad they spoke their peace, because I do see the difference - it seems that some facets of the disease manifest as abuse (projected shame, isolation can mean emotional neglect, etc.) but just as PurpleWilder pointed out, I could drink and not have the thought pop into my head that I should say, shove my H across the room, or throw something and break it near him, or worse. Those thoughts would never occur to a lot of people, alcoholics or not.

The Bancroft book that PurpleWilder pointed out is really insightful. One passage I remember, and I'm paraphrasing, but he is interviewing an abuser about a recent episode, and Bancroft says: "So you have her on the ground, she's laying there in front of you - why not kick her head in? Stomp on her face?" And the response was to the effect of "Well I couldn't do *that*, that would kill her!" So the idea is, they do what they feel is acceptable to them, what they allow themselves to do, and also at times what they feel they can get away with, without consequence.

I know you are trying to see your side of the street but unacceptable behavior is unacceptable. For me - and i understand that I don't know all your incident details - I had to remind myself of the times when I was pretty sure he was sober and he was still abusive. It would start from a completely irrational reaction that would blow up into a very scary ordeal. Yes, the times he was the most physical, he had been drinking quite a bit. It's harder to tell when they seem to be drinking everyday, or suffering withdrawals. And looking back, he's just always been this way, it's just gotten worse over time.

Hope this helps. Hugs to you. You're not alone.

killerinstinct

My ExA was never abusive when he was drunk... He was a flirt and a show off... and actually nice to me. However when he was Sober he was abusive. .. And cruel and horrible.

redatlanta

If abusive or a cheater or a liar when drunk they are always abusive, a cheater and a liar.

Alcohol simply lowers the wall.

meggygoround30

Thank you everyone. I keep going to the DV group every week hoping it will sink in this time. This time maybe I will stop making excuses. This time I will stop feeling bad for HIM and think about what i went through. I'm afraid to feel those deeper emotions.

I have heard of the Why Does He Do That book and am definitely going to read it.

Bullfrog

I've had all these questions myself. I know that mine was verbally abusive way before the addictions took hold, and he was raised by a verbal abuser. The addictions took it to a new level. But I think that the disrespect and the belief that I "deserved" the abuse was always there-- it's the root. And it took me a long time to realize that belief of his would never change. If I stayed, my children would grow up seeing worse and worse.

In the end, you can make yourself nuts trying to figure it out. Al Anon encourages us not to accept unacceptable behavior but to stop overanalyzing (I know, easier said than done.)

healthyagain

I can so relate.

Especially this:
"I am trying to forgive myself for being part of the problem- enabling, frantically searching for bottles, calling him a loser and piece of **** constantly (that kills me because I know he didn't need anyone else telling him he's a loser, he already felt that way), throwing things and shaking his head trying to "wake him up" out of anger, frustration, and not understanding. I know now I should have set boundaries but I was so caught up in the emotions."

Emotions are controllable. Trust me. But you can control and are only responsible for your emotions and actions. He is responsible and accountable for his. What helped me most was reading and educating myself about alcoholism and the relationship dynamics. Once alcoholism or addiction is involved, you cannot act normal around that person. I had to greatly lower my expectations once I finally realized and accepted he was an alcoholic. However, we had/have another problem. Domestic abuse and me responding to his baiting and name calling. At first I did not know any better. And I was taught to fight back and always stand up for myself, and always play fair. And it is great of my parents they taught me that, BUT this is not applicable when you are provoked by someone who is addicted! Then you learn that you have to set boundaries. And you set them. But again, someone who is abusive will try to crush them.

I am trying to change my impulse of fight into flight. So far, it works.

Katiekate

Sounds like you have been through a terribly traumatic time, I am deeply sorry.

Forgiveness can be such a difficult hurdle after the experiences we go through. It sounds like you are getting some good solid support.

I finally realized that it really didn't matter what caused the abuse, for me, us , my x and I, breaking up was the best and really only thing to do. Maybe some day he will stop, maybe he won't, but I know in my heart of hearts that I will never trust him to not drink, and there in lies the problem. My relationship with him burnt itself out. Did I enable him yes, do I feel bad about it, not anymore, simply, I did the best I could, I'm sure you did too. He was lucky to have you, but now it's time for both of you to move on. Today I dwell on today, the what ifs, the confusion, the depression and the endless questions will eventually go away.

Forgive yourself for your behavior in the storm, you are human, the key is , is that you survived, good things are just around the corner.
Sending hugs your way, Katie

pixilation

My ex did get worse once the alcohol started, but he was always abusive. I just didn't see it that way until years down the road.

littlefish

There are alcoholics with gambling addiction, others have sex addiction, others are violent or and criminal, some are bi-polar, some are also chronic depressed....the list goes on. That not including all the alcoholics who have well documented mental disorders.
Many halfway houses are designed for alcohol or drug recovery for people with dual diagnosis: substance addiction and mental illness.
You can have two problems, IMHO most are not related, some people are just double winners...

peaceofpi

Alcohol is a toxic chemical that erodes the brain, especially the frontal lobe, which controls moral reasoning, impulse control, and empathy. It takes a long time for that part of the brain to recover. There are no problems and mental conditions that alcohol can't make worse.

Making amends (especially, to yourself) can free you from guilt about how you acted at a time when you didn't have as much information as you do now.

AnvilheadII

meggy - right now you are bargaining with yourself and with the facts.....

you're trying to make the argument that IF it was all YOUR fault, then you could FIX it and everything would be happily ever after.

that IF it was the ALCOHOL, all he has to do is sober up, come back, and it will be happily ever after.

that IF the abuse wasn't really THAT BAD, you could deal with it, understand it, and........all would be well.

it was what it was. he did what he did. he is who he is.

and....it's over. once you accept that, you'll be amazed at the sense of freedom. as the saying goes:

there are no problems, there is only resistance to the solutions.

our pain is in our resistance.