Too conflicted. Is acceptance an option?
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: melbourne vic
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Too conflicted. Is acceptance an option?
I am so confused about my relationship with my ABF. I am torn between loving and accepting him and wanting him to change. He is a sweet man, loves me very much and treats me like a queen. We are very close, we can talk about anything, we cook together every night, spend a lot of time together and make love often. Our relationship is perfect except he drinks every day, he is an alcoholic.
This is where I am conflicted, when I complain or comment about his drinking he becomes distant and defensive. It makes it very difficult to address his problem or set any boundaries because I am afraid of how it will impact his trust for me and our relationship. Then I feel like that by getting along so well and having a good relationship, I am enabling him, because why would he see a problem or need to change when every thing is so great?
I don't want to stop being so close, laughing together, enjoying our loves together but I do want him to address and eventually work through his issues.
I am not sure if I should just keep going the way things are, or raise my concerns more often. My main concern is his health, because I want him around for a long time, to have a healthy future with me and to tackle his anxiety and depression.
I am hoping somebody understands my confusion and confliction and can offer me some wisdom and/or support.
This is where I am conflicted, when I complain or comment about his drinking he becomes distant and defensive. It makes it very difficult to address his problem or set any boundaries because I am afraid of how it will impact his trust for me and our relationship. Then I feel like that by getting along so well and having a good relationship, I am enabling him, because why would he see a problem or need to change when every thing is so great?
I don't want to stop being so close, laughing together, enjoying our loves together but I do want him to address and eventually work through his issues.
I am not sure if I should just keep going the way things are, or raise my concerns more often. My main concern is his health, because I want him around for a long time, to have a healthy future with me and to tackle his anxiety and depression.
I am hoping somebody understands my confusion and confliction and can offer me some wisdom and/or support.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Alcoholism is progressive.
It will get worse. You will see personality and functionality changes - no one escapes that forever.
Your choice is to live with it or not - you cannot convince him to change, as you have found. I would not marry him or have children with him, it will become a big problem in the future.
His drinking causes the anxiety and depression, but you won't be able to convince him of that either. He will continue to up his amounts as tolerance increases and anxiety and depression worsens. It's a vicious cycle.
It will get worse. You will see personality and functionality changes - no one escapes that forever.
Your choice is to live with it or not - you cannot convince him to change, as you have found. I would not marry him or have children with him, it will become a big problem in the future.
His drinking causes the anxiety and depression, but you won't be able to convince him of that either. He will continue to up his amounts as tolerance increases and anxiety and depression worsens. It's a vicious cycle.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
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jeszaxox, you can wish for him to change, you can bring up how much you'd like him to be sober, you can turn yourself inside out trying to make him stop drinking, but in the end, there is only one person that can make that change, and it's him. Has he given you any indication that he wants to get sober?
I can pretty much guarantee that an active alcoholic will not "be around for a long time, have a healthy future w/you and tackle his anxiety and depression." In fact, quite the opposite. Biminiblue is absolutely correct--alcoholism is progressive, and the way things are now is the best they will ever be. It's all downhill if he keeps drinking.
As far as any useful info or advice, I'd say the same things I said in your first thread here: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...alcoholic.html
Glad you came back--keep reading and posting.
I can pretty much guarantee that an active alcoholic will not "be around for a long time, have a healthy future w/you and tackle his anxiety and depression." In fact, quite the opposite. Biminiblue is absolutely correct--alcoholism is progressive, and the way things are now is the best they will ever be. It's all downhill if he keeps drinking.
As far as any useful info or advice, I'd say the same things I said in your first thread here: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...alcoholic.html
Glad you came back--keep reading and posting.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
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I apologize--I didn't answer the question in your thread title. Yes, of course acceptance is an option. It is absolutely up to YOU to decide how much you want to take and when to say "enough."
However, your thread mentions many times how you wish he'd change. That's not acceptance, that's wishful thinking. Again, your choice, but I'd recommend against it.
However, your thread mentions many times how you wish he'd change. That's not acceptance, that's wishful thinking. Again, your choice, but I'd recommend against it.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: tx
Posts: 101
Hi, there.
I am very understanding of your feelings and even your actions.
My husband and I met right after high school. He was prince charming. I thought the world of him and still do.
But alcoholism changes a person. It's progressive.
My husband went from being the nicest guy in the world. Couldn't hurt a fly. To putting me and our new born in extremely dangerous situations. My very protective husband stopped protecting me.
He became withdrawn, lazy, dirty, fat, and careless. I still know that it's the illness. But I've been through many ups and downs with him.
I couldn't change him or save him. You won't be able to either.
He stopped drinking. Then started again. And each time it was seven times worse.
We are separated now. We have a child. Hopefully he stays sober this time. For himself.
I was once a carefree girl. I was positive. Excited about life and love.
Now, I'm bitter, angry, hurt, alone,and a codependant.
Please know your love will not save him. there is NOTHING you can do to make it better. He has to want it for himself.
Our love, our marriage, our health, and even our miracle baby wasn't enough. He has to hit rock bottom. And I'm still not sure if he'll make it. But what sucks is my baby and I have also had to hit rock bottom.
I'm not trying to be mean or negative. I'm being honest.
I still love him. But loving him has caused many pains. I've done things I never expected myself to do.
Please think about what it will feel like to completely lose yourself for him and have nothing left and he will not be responsible for it.
Are you willing to sacrifice your life, your hopes, your dreams, your family, your soul? This illness kills steals and destroys.
I am very understanding of your feelings and even your actions.
My husband and I met right after high school. He was prince charming. I thought the world of him and still do.
But alcoholism changes a person. It's progressive.
My husband went from being the nicest guy in the world. Couldn't hurt a fly. To putting me and our new born in extremely dangerous situations. My very protective husband stopped protecting me.
He became withdrawn, lazy, dirty, fat, and careless. I still know that it's the illness. But I've been through many ups and downs with him.
I couldn't change him or save him. You won't be able to either.
He stopped drinking. Then started again. And each time it was seven times worse.
We are separated now. We have a child. Hopefully he stays sober this time. For himself.
I was once a carefree girl. I was positive. Excited about life and love.
Now, I'm bitter, angry, hurt, alone,and a codependant.
Please know your love will not save him. there is NOTHING you can do to make it better. He has to want it for himself.
Our love, our marriage, our health, and even our miracle baby wasn't enough. He has to hit rock bottom. And I'm still not sure if he'll make it. But what sucks is my baby and I have also had to hit rock bottom.
I'm not trying to be mean or negative. I'm being honest.
I still love him. But loving him has caused many pains. I've done things I never expected myself to do.
Please think about what it will feel like to completely lose yourself for him and have nothing left and he will not be responsible for it.
Are you willing to sacrifice your life, your hopes, your dreams, your family, your soul? This illness kills steals and destroys.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 413
Of course you have the option to stay with him. You actually have three options in this situation:
1: Stay, and hope he'll change, help him, try to teach him, provide positive reinforcement when he's good, nag him or withdraw when he drinks too much, and generally try to get him to see life the way you do,
2: Stay, accept him for who he is, and go about your own business of being happy in your own life regardless of what he does,
and 3: Leave him.
To me, #2 and #3 are options where you can salvage some happiness. #1 is the option where the most misery for you will lie. Your BF has expressed no interest in recovery. The other commenters are correct, addiction is progressive. It does get worse.
Oh, and think twice about having kids if you choose #2 -- an alcoholic parent leaves life-long scars.
1: Stay, and hope he'll change, help him, try to teach him, provide positive reinforcement when he's good, nag him or withdraw when he drinks too much, and generally try to get him to see life the way you do,
2: Stay, accept him for who he is, and go about your own business of being happy in your own life regardless of what he does,
and 3: Leave him.
To me, #2 and #3 are options where you can salvage some happiness. #1 is the option where the most misery for you will lie. Your BF has expressed no interest in recovery. The other commenters are correct, addiction is progressive. It does get worse.
Oh, and think twice about having kids if you choose #2 -- an alcoholic parent leaves life-long scars.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Jesza......I do understand your conflict and have sympathy. I think that just about everyone on this forum can understand how you feel.
From what you write...it sounds like things are pretty much to his satisfaction...but, not so much for you....otherwise you wouldn't be writing, here....LOL.
You say that you all can talk about everything....well, then you will need to be honest and come clean about your feelings about this very real issue.
If you are completely honest with him....one of two things will happen.....#1..He will hear your concerns and decide that it is important enough to become sober.
#2. He will deny that it is a problem and be very defensive about the subject. This is actually the most common--by far--reaction.
If he selects #2.....I say to end the relationship and move on to something more healthy for you. It will not get better unless he sees the problem and wants to change it. It will get worse over time and you will become more negatively affected by it.
It is better to face it right now---it would be more pain than you can imagine if you were to marry and/or have children with him!!
tough advice...I know. You probably don't like to hear it. But, my dear...there is simply no way to sugar coat this. Sorry.....
dandylion
From what you write...it sounds like things are pretty much to his satisfaction...but, not so much for you....otherwise you wouldn't be writing, here....LOL.
You say that you all can talk about everything....well, then you will need to be honest and come clean about your feelings about this very real issue.
If you are completely honest with him....one of two things will happen.....#1..He will hear your concerns and decide that it is important enough to become sober.
#2. He will deny that it is a problem and be very defensive about the subject. This is actually the most common--by far--reaction.
If he selects #2.....I say to end the relationship and move on to something more healthy for you. It will not get better unless he sees the problem and wants to change it. It will get worse over time and you will become more negatively affected by it.
It is better to face it right now---it would be more pain than you can imagine if you were to marry and/or have children with him!!
tough advice...I know. You probably don't like to hear it. But, my dear...there is simply no way to sugar coat this. Sorry.....
dandylion
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: melbourne vic
Posts: 4
Thank you all for the responses. I am aware it is progressive, and there is nothing I can do or say to change anything. I guess I deep down know the answers, denial is not just a symptom of the alcoholic. I guess I just need to vent and communicate with people who know where I am coming from. Its not easy to see someone you love and care for so much go through this, oblivious to what they are doing. I am very thankful for this forum and all the people on here.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 685
Our relationship is perfect except he drinks every day, he is an alcoholic.
This is where I am conflicted, when I complain or comment about his drinking he becomes distant and defensive. It makes it very difficult to address his problem or set any boundaries because I am afraid of how it will impact his trust for me and our relationship.
This is where I am conflicted, when I complain or comment about his drinking he becomes distant and defensive. It makes it very difficult to address his problem or set any boundaries because I am afraid of how it will impact his trust for me and our relationship.
Of course acceptance is an option. You are free to accept him as he is, including his alcoholism. Actually dear, as long as you stay with him you *must* accept the alcoholism since he shows no interest in changing. You seem happy in spite of his drinking.
If you read around this forum you'll find you are choosing a difficult path. Loving an addict includes a lot of pain which increases as time goes on. Some find their way out of their addiction but most don't. Your guy has to want sobriety for himself and so far he doesn't.
Take care of yourself and keep your eyes open for signs that his drinking is changing his behavior. Ask yourself, honestly, if life with an alcoholic is what you want. Good luck to you.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: tx
Posts: 101
[QUOTE=Needabreak;4872529
Oh, and think twice about having kids if you choose #2 -- an alcoholic parent leaves life-long scars.[/QUOTE]
It's true. When you choose to have a child you also choose to be soley responsible for that child. He will not be there financially or emotionally. He might have a job. But you'll still be the only parent. I'm a married woman but I'm a single mom.
Also prepare to always feel guilty for bringing a child into a bad situation. Then prepare to feel guilty for even thinking of a world without your child. Prepare to feel guilty for any hurts your child experiences due to alcohol even tho you might not drink.
Or if you stay with him prepare to not be a mom. Ever. That's if you choose him over having a baby. Either way there are sacrifices to make.
I chose to be selfish and brought a baby into the world. I love my baby but I wish I could have given a healthy world for her to live in. And of course her birth is my fault and he claims no responsibility because I was the sober one.
Oh, and think twice about having kids if you choose #2 -- an alcoholic parent leaves life-long scars.[/QUOTE]
It's true. When you choose to have a child you also choose to be soley responsible for that child. He will not be there financially or emotionally. He might have a job. But you'll still be the only parent. I'm a married woman but I'm a single mom.
Also prepare to always feel guilty for bringing a child into a bad situation. Then prepare to feel guilty for even thinking of a world without your child. Prepare to feel guilty for any hurts your child experiences due to alcohol even tho you might not drink.
Or if you stay with him prepare to not be a mom. Ever. That's if you choose him over having a baby. Either way there are sacrifices to make.
I chose to be selfish and brought a baby into the world. I love my baby but I wish I could have given a healthy world for her to live in. And of course her birth is my fault and he claims no responsibility because I was the sober one.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Jesza.....think about this.....you are already accomodating his drinking...playing your part in the "dance". You are stuffing your feelings about this and tiptoeing around him on the issue---because you sense the "wall" he has built around it to protect his ability to continue drinking.
This is a subtle form of enabling....because it allows him to drink in more comfort than he otherwise could. It is a passive way of giving him approval to bring this into the fabric of your relationship.
This is how a person can get sucked into the quicksand before they consciously realize it. Don't wait until you get sucked in up to your neck before you decide to deal with it.
Don't deny your feelings and your needs. They are important. You matter in this.
If you sacrifice yourself....the relationship won't save you!
I'm just saying.....
dandylion
This is a subtle form of enabling....because it allows him to drink in more comfort than he otherwise could. It is a passive way of giving him approval to bring this into the fabric of your relationship.
This is how a person can get sucked into the quicksand before they consciously realize it. Don't wait until you get sucked in up to your neck before you decide to deal with it.
Don't deny your feelings and your needs. They are important. You matter in this.
If you sacrifice yourself....the relationship won't save you!
I'm just saying.....
dandylion
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Hi J, you say he drinks every day. Is he drinking to drunkeness or blackout? I've know people who drink daily who I wouldn't class as alcoholics. Has his intake been increasing over time? Does he drink in the morning at all? Hide bottles?
His defensive reaction to your concerns is a red flag because it means he doesn't feel comfortable with sobriety. I'm pretty sure I would have reacted that way when I was drinking too.
One question you could ask yourself is whether the person you are interacting with is ever sober. If he starts after work every day, is your good relationship based on him being under the influence?
His defensive reaction to your concerns is a red flag because it means he doesn't feel comfortable with sobriety. I'm pretty sure I would have reacted that way when I was drinking too.
One question you could ask yourself is whether the person you are interacting with is ever sober. If he starts after work every day, is your good relationship based on him being under the influence?
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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The hardest part is he was like this when we met. Back then he got drunk a lot, pretty much everyday. I xpressed concern and he switched from hard liquor to beer. Then he was drinking everday but getting drunk once a week. Now he hasn't been drunk foe a couple of weeks and has vouched to have a day off drinking once a week and continue to cut down. Should I accept these small changes as positive and a willingness to change or is that more wishful thinking.
He has been an everyday drinker for a long time, over 5 years. He says he was much worse before and when we first met, said he was severely depressed and did nothing but stay inside and drink all day, had no friends no life, now he is very active and positive but still suffers from his addiction.
I will continue to educate myself and do some more soul searching. I apologise if I seem all over the place, crontradicting myself and not making sense. I'm in a strange place.
He has been an everyday drinker for a long time, over 5 years. He says he was much worse before and when we first met, said he was severely depressed and did nothing but stay inside and drink all day, had no friends no life, now he is very active and positive but still suffers from his addiction.
I will continue to educate myself and do some more soul searching. I apologise if I seem all over the place, crontradicting myself and not making sense. I'm in a strange place.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: tx
Posts: 101
You don't need to apologise for being all over the place. It's part of the cycle. His drinking makes you feel crazy and sometimes act crazy.
I can't tell you how many times he would turn things around on me and I would believe him. It wasn't him drinking...I was seeing things. That bottle was not his.
He didn't buy beer. Yet, money was gone and bank statements state "wine and beer"
Just because he switched his choice of alcohol didn't mean he won't get drunk. It's a trick. A promise he didn't intend to keep. A trap. A manipulation.
He is talking about only one day. I've heard that before. I'm only drinking on the weekend. And he might actually believe it. But the fact is you are holding on to things that aren't real. You are setting yourself up for disappointment.
I've done it to many times to count
I can't tell you how many times he would turn things around on me and I would believe him. It wasn't him drinking...I was seeing things. That bottle was not his.
He didn't buy beer. Yet, money was gone and bank statements state "wine and beer"
Just because he switched his choice of alcohol didn't mean he won't get drunk. It's a trick. A promise he didn't intend to keep. A trap. A manipulation.
He is talking about only one day. I've heard that before. I'm only drinking on the weekend. And he might actually believe it. But the fact is you are holding on to things that aren't real. You are setting yourself up for disappointment.
I've done it to many times to count
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Jesza.....it is very common for an alcoholic to try various means to "cut back" or to "cut down". Their desire is to do "controlled" drinking---thereby not having to give up their best friend (alcohol). Unfortunately this does not work very long for the true alcoholic. The alcoholic wants more and more and more. It is a compulsion to drink alcohol--regardless of the consequences.
That lifelong abstainence is the only way to put alcoholism into remission....is not a concept that they will embrace while they are still in denial that drinking is a problem for them.
Do continue to educate yourself about alcoholism.
Don't make the mistake by going by what his logic says. GO BY YOUR OWN KNOWLEDGE OF THE DISEASE.
It sounds like you already know more than he knows about it.
Once you have the knowledge--you can no longer ignore the facts.
dandylion
That lifelong abstainence is the only way to put alcoholism into remission....is not a concept that they will embrace while they are still in denial that drinking is a problem for them.
Do continue to educate yourself about alcoholism.
Don't make the mistake by going by what his logic says. GO BY YOUR OWN KNOWLEDGE OF THE DISEASE.
It sounds like you already know more than he knows about it.
Once you have the knowledge--you can no longer ignore the facts.
dandylion
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
As long as you cheerfully go along with his daily drinking things will remain fine. For a while. Alcoholism is progressive and he will simply get worse, drink more, as time goes on. The thing is, he has another, much bigger, love: alcohol. For alcoholics booze is their higher power, God, great love of their life. You've noticed he won't even discuss it -- that should tell you everything you need to know. It's your choice to stay or go. But I hope you read a lot of postings on this forum to get a better idea of where you're headed.
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
Alcoholics cannot cut back or moderate their drinking. That's a classic manipulation to try to make you think you're "winning" the fight against alcohol. Sweetheart, this is not a happy, good, perfect, wonderful relationship. The whole thing has been built on lies and deceit. You don't even really know this man. You've never known him truly sober, and chances are you never will. You deserve so much better. However, if you do decide to stay, please don't ever have children with him. Children are innocent and don't come into the world asking for the abuse that comes at the hands of alcoholic and codependent parents.
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our relationship is perfect except.....
we can talk about anything except....
he drinks EVERY day....altho he SAYS he might take a day off now and then.
he was like this when you met. and for a long time prior to that.
THIS is who he is. what he has to offer. you have yet to see him NOT under the influence so you've never met the SOBER him. maybe he did used to drink more, or the harder stuff, but HE'S STILL DRINKING and all alcohol keeps the addiction alive and thriving.
maybe the former bank robber now only holds up the local 7-11, but he's still a thief. it's just a matter of degree.
it concerns me that you are afraid to put this all out on the table for fear of how he might react......that you fear he may take this as a violation of TRUST. as long as you keep your place and mind your mouth, don't rock the boat, you think can keep it altogether and not "lose" him. so it's up to you to CONFORM, live by his rules. that's not equality....that m'dear is codependency, of which one description is:
an insecure attachment which is a universal experience for anyone who is in a painful or stressful relationship.
we can talk about anything except....
he drinks EVERY day....altho he SAYS he might take a day off now and then.
he was like this when you met. and for a long time prior to that.
THIS is who he is. what he has to offer. you have yet to see him NOT under the influence so you've never met the SOBER him. maybe he did used to drink more, or the harder stuff, but HE'S STILL DRINKING and all alcohol keeps the addiction alive and thriving.
maybe the former bank robber now only holds up the local 7-11, but he's still a thief. it's just a matter of degree.
it concerns me that you are afraid to put this all out on the table for fear of how he might react......that you fear he may take this as a violation of TRUST. as long as you keep your place and mind your mouth, don't rock the boat, you think can keep it altogether and not "lose" him. so it's up to you to CONFORM, live by his rules. that's not equality....that m'dear is codependency, of which one description is:
an insecure attachment which is a universal experience for anyone who is in a painful or stressful relationship.
Sober since 10th April 2012
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Originally Posted by jeszaxox 
The hardest part is he was like this when we met. Back then he got drunk a lot, pretty much everyday. I xpressed concern and he switched from hard liquor to beer. Then he was drinking everday but getting drunk once a week. Now he hasn't been drunk foe a couple of weeks and has vouched to have a day off drinking once a week and continue to cut down. Should I accept these small changes as positive and a willingness to change or is that more wishful thinking.
The golden rule with alcoholics is disregard the words and only look at the actions. OK he's decided to have a day off every week; is he actually doing that? He's cut down to the point where he's not getting drunk (BTW early stage alcoholics can process a lot of alcohol without appearing to be drunk because their bodies have become very efficient), that's an action. 2 weeks is early days, but it's positive.
Lots of us have seen or had small improvements. Truthfully, they often don't last because most alcoholics can't moderate forever. How it works out for your AH remains to be seen.
Red flags are:
- increase in intake
- hiding drinking from you
- drinking before work
- unable to take a day off
I really hope he continues to cut down. If you're not ready for an ultimation, then watch and see how he goes.
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