Opinions requested - on NOT divorcing
Stoic
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wash D.C.
Posts: 321
Opinions requested - on NOT divorcing
Background:
I’m currently still technically married to AW, living approx 4 hours away with sole custody of our children. We’ve been in this situation for almost a year and a half, while AW lives in our home that I pay the mortgage on, and I rent an apartment with the children here.
I am the only source of income for the family, and have been for the entire 13 years of our marriage. AW hasn’t ever been employed during our marriage, and apparently never held a job more than a month or two prior to our marriage. Even in the year and a half we’ve lived in the current arrangement, she has not gotten a job, and just basically sat in the home and did what A’s do best. Her health is extremely poor, and has had numerous hospitalizations due to her alcohol abuse. Seizures, every other month detoxes, jaundice…the works. Frankly, I am surprised she is still alive. Her addiction will certainly kill her sooner, rather than later.
I’m active duty military, and I retire from that in a little less than a year. My plan is to move the children and I back to my home state, and plant roots there. There isn’t any issue with that legally, as I have sole custody, and there is a protective order against her for the children until their 18th birthday.
Now that the background is out of the way…
I, of course, was raring to go for a divorce. A friend said something to me the other day, that completely changed my outlook on the situation. They were asking me how I was going along with filing for divorce, and that I needed to hurry up and get it done so that “I can stop funding her lifestyle”.
That got me thinking. Right now, I am only paying the mortgage on our home, the utilities for the home, and the payments on the vehicle she has. The only reason for this, mostly, is because the loans are in my name. (I used to try to pay ALL the bills for both households, but after getting thousands in debt, and her never stepping up to help the family financially, I realized that wasn’t sustainable and had to stop paying the debts that were in her name)
So, right now, I’m not really “funding her lifestyle” at all. Yes, she’s living in a full-sized family home for free…but there’s nothing I can do to change that at the moment.
However, were I to file and go forward with the divorce, I really WOULD be funding her lifestyle. Right now, due to being married, I am under zero (legal) obligation to provide anything for her. With a court involved, once everything is split, and with her never working previously, I would absolutely be forced to declare bankruptcy. There is no doubt of that. I would be held responsible for half the debt that she currently has full responsibility for. I would have to pay her a large amount of spousal support. It’s likely that she would not allow the sale of the home, and I’d continue to be responsible for the mortgage as well.
The financially prudent thing to do would be for me to NOT divorce her….to simply move to the new state, and still be married. She will not last more than a couple years, her self-destruction is painted on the wall. There are no issues with dating while still married. I have zero interest in any new relationships. My focus is on making sure the kids have a safe and stable home life, not in finding another person to bring into our lives.
Has anyone ever considered this before? It seems to fly in the face of everything that is the social norm. What is a divorce, after all, other than the court ordering assets divided, and a permission slip to start another relationship? If I don’t care about other relationships, and I want to still be able to provide the lifestyle to my children that they are used to…I don’t see why a divorce makes any sense.
To be clear, I don’t feel like I owe my AW anything. She is a grown adult that refuses to take responsibility for herself, and criminally neglected our children while they were in her care. Having a court-involved divorce would quite simply take AWAY from the children’s well-being, and transfer that well-being to my AW. That is not ok in my book.
Thoughts? Do I owe it to my AW to divorce her, only to have her complete her path of self destruction within a year or two anyways?
Has anyone else considered just living their lives and NOT getting a divorce from their Alcoholic Spouse (AS)?
I can see where divorcing an AS would be a good thing if the AS is/was the sole or major financial provider for the family...but if the AS provides zero financial support to the family, divorce seems to make no sense whatsoever...other than for the mental satisfaction of not being married to the AS anymore.
Am I being selfish? Is this a "d**k-move", yes, but possibly justified due to the ultimate goal in providing the most for the children? I need some non-involved rational opinions, haha...thank you!
I’m currently still technically married to AW, living approx 4 hours away with sole custody of our children. We’ve been in this situation for almost a year and a half, while AW lives in our home that I pay the mortgage on, and I rent an apartment with the children here.
I am the only source of income for the family, and have been for the entire 13 years of our marriage. AW hasn’t ever been employed during our marriage, and apparently never held a job more than a month or two prior to our marriage. Even in the year and a half we’ve lived in the current arrangement, she has not gotten a job, and just basically sat in the home and did what A’s do best. Her health is extremely poor, and has had numerous hospitalizations due to her alcohol abuse. Seizures, every other month detoxes, jaundice…the works. Frankly, I am surprised she is still alive. Her addiction will certainly kill her sooner, rather than later.
I’m active duty military, and I retire from that in a little less than a year. My plan is to move the children and I back to my home state, and plant roots there. There isn’t any issue with that legally, as I have sole custody, and there is a protective order against her for the children until their 18th birthday.
Now that the background is out of the way…
I, of course, was raring to go for a divorce. A friend said something to me the other day, that completely changed my outlook on the situation. They were asking me how I was going along with filing for divorce, and that I needed to hurry up and get it done so that “I can stop funding her lifestyle”.
That got me thinking. Right now, I am only paying the mortgage on our home, the utilities for the home, and the payments on the vehicle she has. The only reason for this, mostly, is because the loans are in my name. (I used to try to pay ALL the bills for both households, but after getting thousands in debt, and her never stepping up to help the family financially, I realized that wasn’t sustainable and had to stop paying the debts that were in her name)
So, right now, I’m not really “funding her lifestyle” at all. Yes, she’s living in a full-sized family home for free…but there’s nothing I can do to change that at the moment.
However, were I to file and go forward with the divorce, I really WOULD be funding her lifestyle. Right now, due to being married, I am under zero (legal) obligation to provide anything for her. With a court involved, once everything is split, and with her never working previously, I would absolutely be forced to declare bankruptcy. There is no doubt of that. I would be held responsible for half the debt that she currently has full responsibility for. I would have to pay her a large amount of spousal support. It’s likely that she would not allow the sale of the home, and I’d continue to be responsible for the mortgage as well.
The financially prudent thing to do would be for me to NOT divorce her….to simply move to the new state, and still be married. She will not last more than a couple years, her self-destruction is painted on the wall. There are no issues with dating while still married. I have zero interest in any new relationships. My focus is on making sure the kids have a safe and stable home life, not in finding another person to bring into our lives.
Has anyone ever considered this before? It seems to fly in the face of everything that is the social norm. What is a divorce, after all, other than the court ordering assets divided, and a permission slip to start another relationship? If I don’t care about other relationships, and I want to still be able to provide the lifestyle to my children that they are used to…I don’t see why a divorce makes any sense.
To be clear, I don’t feel like I owe my AW anything. She is a grown adult that refuses to take responsibility for herself, and criminally neglected our children while they were in her care. Having a court-involved divorce would quite simply take AWAY from the children’s well-being, and transfer that well-being to my AW. That is not ok in my book.
Thoughts? Do I owe it to my AW to divorce her, only to have her complete her path of self destruction within a year or two anyways?
Has anyone else considered just living their lives and NOT getting a divorce from their Alcoholic Spouse (AS)?
I can see where divorcing an AS would be a good thing if the AS is/was the sole or major financial provider for the family...but if the AS provides zero financial support to the family, divorce seems to make no sense whatsoever...other than for the mental satisfaction of not being married to the AS anymore.
Am I being selfish? Is this a "d**k-move", yes, but possibly justified due to the ultimate goal in providing the most for the children? I need some non-involved rational opinions, haha...thank you!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
My opinion is to get a free consult from an attorney. You are in the military. Are you entitled to a pension from that when you leave? She will most likely be entitled to a portion of that. In a divorce, it could force the sale of the house with the equity divided 50/50.
How long are you married? Is she capable of working. If she is capable of working, she will be imputed with income.
With a free consult you may be able to get a clearer picture on this.
She would also have to pay child support.
How long are you married? Is she capable of working. If she is capable of working, she will be imputed with income.
With a free consult you may be able to get a clearer picture on this.
She would also have to pay child support.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
An attorney for sure !!!!! Do you have a thrifts savings plan? Any IRA's? Get all facts and #'s on these. It may actually be better to stay married if you really think that she will drink herself to death, but if not the longer are married the bigger her percentage would be for things like this.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,349
Seconding the 'check with a lawyer' suggestion. I don't know where you live but I know the laws are different in VA than they are in MD or DC, having lived in the DC metro area. It really might depend on how they actually split the assets and whether you are in a community property state (or province).
I'm sorry for your situation, I can't imagine how difficult this must be for your children, too.
I'm sorry for your situation, I can't imagine how difficult this must be for your children, too.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
You don't know that this will be over in two years. This situation could go on for a very very long time. There are things like growing debt load to consider as well as possible liability for legal issues that could crop up. You'd be surprised at the debt your name is on by virtue of being married - doesn't matter where you live or who took out the loan/debt etc. This may have long term consequences for your credit, opportunities (home ownership, car loans, credit checks for apartments even), and financial situation down the road.
You for sure need the advice of an attorney in your area that knows the state laws etc.
You for sure need the advice of an attorney in your area that knows the state laws etc.
Stoic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wash D.C.
Posts: 321
Ahh yes, I forgot all about that Amy, thank you. With a divorce, she'd be entitled to approx 38% of my military retirement. (based on time married while I was in the military 13 years)
Staying married, I'd get my entire retirement check.
She's technically able to get a job, yes. Reality, not a chance in heck. Her health and dependance is such that she can barely make it six hours without getting violent withdrawal symptoms.
Social security has denied her filings for disability.
Another thing I didn't mention, the divorce would end up costing me tremendously in lawyer fees, of course. It's almost assured that her side would also file that I be responsible for her legal fees as well...she'd said as much.
In any case, yes, I need to do a legal consult on this.
I was hoping to get some moral opinions on this though. =)
i.e., there are SO many posts here about divorce, and how happy everyone is once they are final, etc. I certainly can see the appeal in that. But, I never see anyone post how they just left their AS in the dust and not bothered to worry about the divorce...leaving their AS to fend for themselves.
Staying married, I'd get my entire retirement check.
She's technically able to get a job, yes. Reality, not a chance in heck. Her health and dependance is such that she can barely make it six hours without getting violent withdrawal symptoms.
Social security has denied her filings for disability.
Another thing I didn't mention, the divorce would end up costing me tremendously in lawyer fees, of course. It's almost assured that her side would also file that I be responsible for her legal fees as well...she'd said as much.
In any case, yes, I need to do a legal consult on this.
I was hoping to get some moral opinions on this though. =)
i.e., there are SO many posts here about divorce, and how happy everyone is once they are final, etc. I certainly can see the appeal in that. But, I never see anyone post how they just left their AS in the dust and not bothered to worry about the divorce...leaving their AS to fend for themselves.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
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You have a rare situation here. I agree with getting the legal low-down. Realllly run those numbers & see if the overall cost would be as high as you think - once you are no longer carrying her insurances, etc. you may be surprised. (maybe)
Legally I'd also want to know what other exposure I had - if she's driving, you have some potential liability there alone. What if she drives drunk & kills someone? What if she creates huge amounts of property damage? Are you currently filing a joint tax return in the US; would it make sense to sacrifice some deductions & credits to file Married-Separately to show intent to be separated from her fully/legally/etc.?
How IS she funding her addictions without income & you only paying the mortgage/utilities/loans? What happens when that source dries up? Do you financially become responsible for more at that point anyway? What if she opens more credit accts & racks up tons of debt unknown to you?
Health-wise - don't be quick to judge that she's that close to death by bottle. One of my good friend's mom was a lifetime alcoholic, drinking hard liquor heavily for DECADES & went through this stage you talk about (jaundice/seizures/etc.) for YEARS before she succumbed. It was horrid, she insisted until her last breath that he daily vodka intake had zero impact. She literally held on in the poorest health for something like 7-8 YEARS in that stage alone. It showed me how truly amazing the human body can be in it's resilience.
Legally I'd also want to know what other exposure I had - if she's driving, you have some potential liability there alone. What if she drives drunk & kills someone? What if she creates huge amounts of property damage? Are you currently filing a joint tax return in the US; would it make sense to sacrifice some deductions & credits to file Married-Separately to show intent to be separated from her fully/legally/etc.?
How IS she funding her addictions without income & you only paying the mortgage/utilities/loans? What happens when that source dries up? Do you financially become responsible for more at that point anyway? What if she opens more credit accts & racks up tons of debt unknown to you?
Health-wise - don't be quick to judge that she's that close to death by bottle. One of my good friend's mom was a lifetime alcoholic, drinking hard liquor heavily for DECADES & went through this stage you talk about (jaundice/seizures/etc.) for YEARS before she succumbed. It was horrid, she insisted until her last breath that he daily vodka intake had zero impact. She literally held on in the poorest health for something like 7-8 YEARS in that stage alone. It showed me how truly amazing the human body can be in it's resilience.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
My moral opinion is get out as quick as possible and don't look back. She is obviously living a toxic life and it does not sound she has any interest in changing that? Honestly, marriage is much much more than a piece of paper, and it sounds like you have not really been married in a long time. You deserve a life, and your children, no matter their ages, deserve piece of mind and stability.
I don't say that to be unkind. I support you and my heart hurts for all you and your children have obviously been through.
Financially, get the attorney.
I don't say that to be unkind. I support you and my heart hurts for all you and your children have obviously been through.
Financially, get the attorney.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
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You absolutely have my moral support if you decide to stay married to screw her. I would have done the same. (lol). I am currently in a new fight with my ex re: division of his csrs pension, and my csrs pension.
I can definitely see where are coming from.
Just first find out the numbers !!!!!
They will most likely impute her with wages, if she is deemed capable of working, but just chooses not to.
I can definitely see where are coming from.
Just first find out the numbers !!!!!
They will most likely impute her with wages, if she is deemed capable of working, but just chooses not to.
Stoic
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wash D.C.
Posts: 321
Originally Posted by Thumper 
You don't know that this will be over in two years. This situation could go on for a very very long time.
This would almost be a gamble...the 100% of my bankruptcy in a divorce, vs. the chance that she somehow lives through this and is able to be coherent enough in the future to rehabilitate.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
Originally Posted by ResignedToWait
I was hoping to get some moral opinions on this though. =)
ETA: and you are funding her lifestyle. She has a free house and a free car and this allows her to continue to circle the drain in relative comfort. I would say that is skating on thin ice morally. That is me throwing stones while living in a glass house because I enabled a lot. In the middle of it I didn't see it the same way as I do now. That enabling came from two places. One was a place of pity and wanting to help/fix things and/or save him and the other was me manipulating things to get the outcomes I thought best for myself. It didn't work. My life got better when I quit all that and just did the next right thing even though it was complete chaos in the short term.
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Join Date: May 2012
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Morally - you gotta do what is right in your own heart & soul, IMO. I don't think it's as black & white as it sounds when there are this many important factors to consider. Personally, I would crave that peace of mind of being fully separated without worrying if/when another shoe may or may not drop in my & my kids' lives.
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i must be missing something here ?
but if you have custody of the children what up keep is she providing ?
why is she in the family home and you and the kids are not in that home ?
unless laws are different for men v women i think she would be forced to move out and you and the kids can live there until the kids are grown up. also she will have to pay to help you for the kids up keep,
but if you have custody of the children what up keep is she providing ?
why is she in the family home and you and the kids are not in that home ?
unless laws are different for men v women i think she would be forced to move out and you and the kids can live there until the kids are grown up. also she will have to pay to help you for the kids up keep,
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Another thing that you need to consider is if she does drink herself to death, a lien will probably be put on the house so that they can collect the money she owes.
You possibly could come out ahead in this.
That 38%. Well it's 38% of 50% of your benefit.
You must know that I am at war with my ex right now, and I really would just like to erase him from the face of this earth at the moment.
You possibly could come out ahead in this.
That 38%. Well it's 38% of 50% of your benefit.
You must know that I am at war with my ex right now, and I really would just like to erase him from the face of this earth at the moment.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
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Don't wager on someone not being able to live through addiction. While they may rob the lives of those around them, they can amazingly hold on for a long, long period of time, forcing others to take care of them b/c they refuse to take care of themselves.
So so sorry.....
So so sorry.....
Stoic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wash D.C.
Posts: 321
Originally Posted by FireSprite
Legally I'd also want to know what other exposure I had - if she's driving, you have some potential liability there alone. What if she drives drunk & kills someone? What if she creates huge amounts of property damage? Are you currently filing a joint tax return in the US; would it make sense to sacrifice some deductions & credits to file Married-Separately to show intent to be separated from her fully/legally/etc.?
How IS she funding her addictions without income & you only paying the mortgage/utilities/loans? What happens when that source dries up? Do you financially become responsible for more at that point anyway? What if she opens more credit accts & racks up tons of debt unknown to you?
Health-wise - don't be quick to judge that she's that close to death by bottle. One of my good friend's mom was a lifetime alcoholic, drinking hard liquor heavily for DECADES & went through this stage you talk about (jaundice/seizures/etc.) for YEARS before she succumbed. It was horrid, she insisted until her last breath that he daily vodka intake had zero impact. She literally held on in the poorest health for something like 7-8 YEARS in that stage alone. It showed me how truly amazing the human body can be in it's resilience.
How IS she funding her addictions without income & you only paying the mortgage/utilities/loans? What happens when that source dries up? Do you financially become responsible for more at that point anyway? What if she opens more credit accts & racks up tons of debt unknown to you?
Health-wise - don't be quick to judge that she's that close to death by bottle. One of my good friend's mom was a lifetime alcoholic, drinking hard liquor heavily for DECADES & went through this stage you talk about (jaundice/seizures/etc.) for YEARS before she succumbed. It was horrid, she insisted until her last breath that he daily vodka intake had zero impact. She literally held on in the poorest health for something like 7-8 YEARS in that stage alone. It showed me how truly amazing the human body can be in it's resilience.
I have her dropped from our insurance. I know...if she causes damage due to that, she can be sued. They can go after her assets (essentially, the vehicle and the house). There isn't anything I can do to mitigate that.
I file head of household, and don't claim her as a dependent...so I am good tax-wise.
I have disputed the debts that were in her name that she's not paying, because they showed up on my credit report. All the disputes were successful, and none of it is credited to my reports any longer...so I don't have any worries about her opening up a million $'s in credit and defaulting on it...knowing that it's not my responsibility. It would only become my responsibility if we were to divorce.
She is currently funding her lifestyle with a live-in boyfriend (40 y/o tattoo artist from down the street that live(d) with his parents until he moved part-time into the home with her) He's her enabler at the moment.
Ugh..your friend's mom IS my wife. She insists alcohol has nothing to do with her health problems at all, and it's all the fault of something else or another.
I know that she may live a lot longer than I am expecting...sometimes I feel like she'll outlive everyone. The term immortal alcoholic seems so apt sometimes.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
Originally Posted by ResignedToWait
You're absolutely right about that. 
This would almost be a gamble...the 100% of my bankruptcy in a divorce, vs. the chance that she somehow lives through this and is able to be coherent enough in the future to rehabilitate.
This would almost be a gamble...the 100% of my bankruptcy in a divorce, vs. the chance that she somehow lives through this and is able to be coherent enough in the future to rehabilitate.
The divorce could go differently than you expect.
You could hold the status quo and nothing would change.
You could hold the status quo and many crisis could crop up that makes it financially worse than a divorce. You'd be that much further down the line making it even more complicated.
You could divorce her and when **** got real maybe she'd find recovery (this was the scenario for my xah).
and i'm sure there are a lot more.
I know from experience that it is easy to latch on to specific outcomes (especially when I was so invested in predicting the future and wanting to make sure I did xyz to get the outcomes I wanted). It was fear. I was so afraid of doing the wrong thing and that fear made me want to control all the variables.
In addition to the legal advice it is certainly OK to do nothing right now and work on your own recovery. Maybe you already are - you don't mention - but your answers might be more clear to you after some recovery work of your own through al-anon, counseling, or whatever fits.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Talk with an attorney. Sounds like it is cheaper to keep her...
However, any bad debt/crap she gets into while married to you might affect you, right? What if you want to date/marry again and she is still around, then what? She might get real vindictive if another woman is around and decide to take you to the cleaners.
You are banking on her dying in a couple years, but A's without stress or any responsibilities can live for decades while you pay the bills. Why did you not divorce her earlier before you had 13 years of paying her bills? (Just curious, not blaming).
However, any bad debt/crap she gets into while married to you might affect you, right? What if you want to date/marry again and she is still around, then what? She might get real vindictive if another woman is around and decide to take you to the cleaners.
You are banking on her dying in a couple years, but A's without stress or any responsibilities can live for decades while you pay the bills. Why did you not divorce her earlier before you had 13 years of paying her bills? (Just curious, not blaming).
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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I'm going with the divorce.
If she has a live-in boyfriend you may not have to pay any alimony at all.
Please call for a free consult asap. It might actually be better that way.
If you need help with a list of things that you would need to bring with you, we can help you with all that.
If she has a live-in boyfriend you may not have to pay any alimony at all.
Please call for a free consult asap. It might actually be better that way.
If you need help with a list of things that you would need to bring with you, we can help you with all that.
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