torquemax777

My husband has a tendency to quack about legitimate issues that even tug on my heart strings; sometimes even to the point of causing me to think, "Am I the crazy one?" I'm only now just beginning to see thru the "veiled" quackiness of it all. It's the worst when he is having a sober couple of days and we are discussing his drinking. Also, if he has just cracked open the first beer or two, and I go from perky and friendly to suddenly "disengaged" he has a knack for reminding me of "all the fun we used to have when we drank together..." Even his "blaming" is quite insidious; he knows EXACTLY which "buttons" to push, and points out flaws in my character that are actual flaws. For example, we both smoke cigarettes, but when he is drinking, he will say things like, "How is drinking any different than smoking? They are both addictions that effect or health, finances, and other people and they both can kill us, yet if you think 'quitting' something is so easy, then why don't you quit smoking?" He also uses my weight/dieting as a "quack/blame" in the same way. There are other examples, but the point is, his favorite ways to "quack" are throwing himself a pity party about issues I know are painful to both of us (like our 4 stillbirths) and/or comparing his drinking to legitimate flaws that I do indeed struggle with. Has anyone ever experienced this "advanced" form of quacking? BTW: I don't entertain these quacks anymore. I just "zip my lip" so to speak, but to myself I am thinking, "well, he DOES have a point!"

Hammer

General Alanon standard response is something like:

"Well you may be correct . . .. " [and then under breath or to self] "in some odd Alcoholic Universe."

Like you observed, zip the lip, take care of your stuff.

hopeful4

He is gaslighting you, trying to make you feel skewed in what you will tolerate or not. It is huge quacking, you are correct. I have said this over and over, and will say it again here. You cannot control his actions, but you can control your own reactions. My X tried very hard to make me feel crazy, and very nearly succeeded.

I can only say that now that I am divorced, my sanity is amazingly restored! Put on your BS filter and keep it on!

torquemax777

thanks! "gas-lighting" I vaguely remember seeing that term used before, but it was in a list that didn't "define" the meaning of it. Makes sense! What's also annoying is that when he is sufficiently "buzzed" he starts ranting and rambling about all the wrongs he has suffered in life and all the people who have been involved in these "wrongs." Once again, these are legitimately crappy things and people that have hurt him; however, it gets to the point where he is literally screaming at them as if they were there and he had the opportunity to really "give it to 'em!" It's not like I feel threatened, but it's embarrassing/annoying and I'm sure the neighbors think we are in the middle of a giant fight and he is yelling at me. The frustrating part, is that we live in a 27 travel trailer (camper) in his tiny hometown. I don't have anywhere I can go; well, I have gone out in the woods and "camped" for several days, but that won't work in the winter. And this is a town that shuts down after 9pm. EVERY business; which consists of an Alco, Family Dollar, A&W, and a Clarks grocery (which is closed all day Sunday) So when it gets to be winter, I guess I will just have to bundle up and go sit in my truck on the side of the road somewhere. I don't have friends or places to just go hang out at while he is on one of these kicks, which is just about everytime he drinks.

hopeful4

I understand. I usto take my kids and go on these little "outings." We eventually got sick of it and they had homework to do, stuff like that. It just did not work. I told him if he was going to drink not to come home, but he did, every time.

Now my house is mine, and it's a man free zone except the cat and dog LOL!

My heart goes out to you. Keep posting, you are not alone.

WendyOR

I think this is a common thing as well. My xabf's favorite line in these moods was.... well when you have been through what I have been through, or... another good one was... it changed in the past three years like everything else has changed (his parents both passed and he had a dui and got divorced, a band he had been in for over 20 years broke up and another band was formed... had to move into his auntie's house who had also passed away, then his folks house with alcoholic brother and then found a place to buy of his own)....

Obviously some of those things were out of his control, such as the deaths....

I kept thinking, he was pretty lucky in a lot of aspects through it. He had a place to live for nearly three years until he found a place to buy, rent free.... (didn't save a penny during that time.... )

My point is... again, they never take any ownership in any of the hurts, and for the ones that they have no control over, what they do have control over, is how they deal with each of them... yet, here they sit, on the pity party, on a daily basis. They use to consume their hurt and their guilt. We seem to be ok, in their eyes when we completely stand by them during the pity party, and let them emotionally drain us, in a sense we no longer have any self worth. They still have it made at that point as they still have someone to listen to all the self wallowing on a constant basis. They are using us like a therapist, venting... getting out all of their hurts that they mask to others, and cover with a blanket of alcohol, and we, simply don't have the knowledge or training of a therapist.

I am sorry your living conditions sound very isolating. I am sure it is very hard to stay so detached in such tight living quarters. I am sending you special thoughts and prayers.

CodeJob

Torque,

Do you have any friends? Do you belong to a church? What skills can you turn into a paying gig? Is the college town your daughter is at large enough to have a shelter you could get hooked into their services?

You are living in a 27 ft trailer with an A. This is not a good situation.

Being visual, I thought this PDF was a good way to assess my situation. You might be surprised to see some of your A's behavior towards you on this wheel.

http://www.theduluthmodel.org/pdf/PowerandControl.pdf

Here is a link to the DV Hotline for UT. Call and have a chat. See what is out there to help you work through your situation. I would prefer you bug out with the clothes on your back than become a statistic. A lot of us are so emotionally worn down that we accept UNACCEPTABLE behavior.

Violence & Injury Prevention Program

Please be seriously careful.

torquemax777

Oh wow! It's not that I am "glad" you had to go thru that, but I sure am grateful I found a place where others can "relate" what a comfort! A big thank you to you and the other posters as well.
Isn't their reasoning just insane? Yet at the same time it sorta kinda made sense in some twisted sort of way? One of his big things right now is that back in 2011 he blacked out and broke a bunch of things and pushed to of my daughters and my ex husband slapped a permanent restraining order on him for life. Which sadly, has caused me not to be able to see my own daughters as often or for as long at a time (there are no court ordered restrictions on me, its just logistically it doesn't work) anyway, he gets on his pity pot, "I miss you girls, (sob sob sniff sniff) I'm so very very sorry for what I did to you! I don't care if you never want to be with me ever ever again; just please, don't take it out on your mom, she loves and misses you guys...." Sometimes for dramatic purposes, he kisses a photo of them as he gently caresses the frame. And the whole time I'm thinking; "dumbass!! if you are so 'sorry', why are you doing the very thing that got you into this spot in the first place?!?!?" And even if you never see them again, wouldn't you be deathly opposed to the "thing" that drove your family away?" He also gets this sobby thing going with the loss of our 4 babies. His dad, who was the typical deadbeat, absent, no child support guy, recently died. We got a phone call out of the blue from a current wife (now widow) of his dads. He tried living with the guy once when he was 18 for about 3 months because he was an out of control teenager (used to drink Everclear chased with gin) long story short, his dad not only drank with him, he introduced him to hard drugs and after only a few months, that whole situation went down the drain and he almost killed his dad with his bare hands. So now when my husband drinks, he's like, "I never got to tell my dad sorry, I never got to say what I needed to say...blah blah" or he will turn and start ranting about his dad was never there for him. Oh the list could go on, and like I said, some of it is legitimately sad, but COME ON!!! It's like he is this martyr or something. Sometimes though (and this really pisses me off) he makes a big joke out of and tells everyone, "Oh I could invent the perfect pity pot..." (he goes on into detail about it's physical/symbolic features. Another thing (sorry this has turned into a vent) that drives me nuts, is when he gets around other people when he's drunk, he gets overly friendy with other people, sickening praise and nicknames (that sometimes **** the other guy off like Bubba or calling ladies "Mame") and this is the part that REALLY pisses me off; he gives our stuff away!!! One time he gave away an $80 Bible that I bought him that was sorta "ours" then he turned around and yelled at me for not being more "generous" and that if I really knew the Bible I should be willing to pass the word of God on to others... I put my foot down on that one though and he got the Bible back, but only after going and purchasing the dude one for almost the same price!!! SIGH!!! so many irritating things! Oh and now that we are living back in his home town where as he likes to tell everyone (another excuse for his drinking) "if you aint Mormon or you aint a Navajo, you learnt to fight and drink to get by in this town." and so now, 20 years later at 36 years old, he is "re-living his glory days" and actually had the nerve to tell me, "I'm glad you are witnessing how I had to grow up, and what I had to deal with! Now do you get it why I drink? Huh!?!? Do you get it?!?! Do you?!?!"
Sorry for the LONG reply, but WHEW!!! That sure did feel good! Like getting some sort of emotional vomit up and out; unpleasant at the time, but oh what a relief it is when its done! Thanks for "listening" ;-)

AnvilheadII

so when he pushed your daughter and your ex slapped the lifetime RO on him....what was your thought process to stay with someone who A) abused your child and B) by virtue of being with him reduces the amount of time you can see your own children? and to continue to this day to put up with the same BS that caused it in the first place? i'm curious what bargains you made with yourself and why?

hopeful4

I am sorry for what brings you here, but sure am glad you are here. Keep posting, you are not alone!!!

torquemax777

No friends here, at least not yet ;-( the only people I know here so far are people that are like him or even worse! I have been considering the church avenue, there is only one here that isn't Mormon; and he is right about one thing, if you aren't Mormon, it is a little difficult to fit in this predominantly Mormon town. They have 4 churches and 8 wards here, and one Southern Baptist Church. So I'm hoping it's a good fit for me, cuz my options are slim pickin's. As a matter of fact, they don't even have AA or Alanon here, and the nearest meetings are over 80 miles away in any direction? See the pickle I am in??? The college town where I would like to move to is (hoping I'm not breaking rules here-though our location is listed by our name) Durango CO. It's a very expensive touristy town. Most people in my situation have roommates in order to afford the cost. My problem is I have two dogs that I just can't bring myself to give away or leave behind. like that saying goes, "dogs are not my whole world, but dogs make my world whole..." so, that's tricky in a roommate situation.... SO, I have a lot to think about and prepare for. He is not physically abusive to me other than the yelling, so I think I may just have to sit tight and bide my time and look for a job in this po dunk town. Oh! and I am a CNA (Colorado license) so if I did go to Durango, I would probably do that. I listed a "housekeeping" ad in their (Blanding UT) "monthly" local newspaper classifieds for $50, but never got one single call (not gonna keep spending money for that) and I have also posted houskeeping/caregiver ads on bulletin boards in various stores, and took an ad out on craigslist... that's for jobs here in Utah, so I can save to go to CO. I posted this next part on a different thread, but: "what comes first? do I get a job in the different town and then "hope" to find a place to live with my two dogs? or do I get a place to live and then "hope" to find a job before rent is due the next month?" it would just be so damned more easy if he would just blanketty blank quit drinking AND get into recovery/on to meds or WHATEVER the hell it would take to save this marriage before it comes to all that!!! KAH! sigh! I'm working on either plan A or B; it's sad when the more scarey, expensive, risky plan, is STILL more appealing than staying with them. :

torquemax777

I'm not proud of my reasons to stay... I guess it comes down to what it does for a lot of codependents; I just found out I was pregnant (with the 4th baby we had lost at 7 months into my pregnancy) and that "appeared" to be his rock bottom, as he did indeed quit for over a year, and my daughters were starting to want reconciliation. So, at that point, I believed that it truly was his rock bottom and he also "appeared" to be "walking the walk and talking the talk." While most likely a lame response/excuse/justification for my staying, it is, my reason none-the-less. It is so true the saying that goes, "he is addicted to alcohol, while i am addicted to him...."

hopeful4

I so understand this. I stayed for years b/c I thought my X had hit his bottom and would do the right thing for our girls. Nope, now they are both in counseling and he has told them a lot of lies and hurt them a lot.

fluffyflea

[


I believe it could go under verbal and emotional abuse.


QUOTE=torquemax777;4846754]My husband has a tendency to quack about legitimate issues that even tug on my heart strings; sometimes even to the point of causing me to think, "Am I the crazy one?" I'm only now just beginning to see thru the "veiled" quackiness of it all. It's the worst when he is having a sober couple of days and we are discussing his drinking. Also, if he has just cracked open the first beer or two, and I go from perky and friendly to suddenly "disengaged" he has a knack for reminding me of "all the fun we used to have when we drank together..." Even his "blaming" is quite insidious; he knows EXACTLY which "buttons" to push, and points out flaws in my character that are actual flaws. For example, we both smoke cigarettes, but when he is drinking, he will say things like, "How is drinking any different than smoking? They are both addictions that effect or health, finances, and other people and they both can kill us, yet if you think 'quitting' something is so easy, then why don't you quit smoking?" He also uses my weight/dieting as a "quack/blame" in the same way. There are other examples, but the point is, his favorite ways to "quack" are throwing himself a pity party about issues I know are painful to both of us (like our 4 stillbirths) and/or comparing his drinking to legitimate flaws that I do indeed struggle with. Has anyone ever experienced this "advanced" form of quacking? BTW: I don't entertain these quacks anymore. I just "zip my lip" so to speak, but to myself I am thinking, "well, he DOES have a point!"[/QUOTE]

torquemax777

It is a form of abuse, but the way it is presented is sooo insidious. He will actually look down and all bashful or nostalgic and say things like "Remember when we used to drink and be like little kids having fun together?" (sigh from
him) or in a soft gentle pseudo-humble tone, "You know how hard it is to quit smoking or lose weight.... well, that's how it is with me and the booze" sometimes he says it sarcastically, but usually it's more of the boo hoo hoo!!! Poor me/Pour me syndrome. I was just wondering if anyone else could relate to this form of "abuse" or whatever you want to call it. It makes me "crazy" because the way he goes about it seems so kind, humble and in a way, even like he's desperately wanting my insight and advice, all the while either cracking open a beer or manipulating to go get some. Another thing he does that makes me INSANE is he "asks" my permission as if I was his mother. I told him time and time again that if he wants to drink, that is his choice, he is a big boy, but don't make me "responsible" by asking me beforehand. He will also say things like "Hey thanks Goose (his pet name for me) thanks for: "letting me have fun" or "letting me kick back" or "letting me cut loose" DAMN that makes me mad! What am I supposed to say, "no problem sweety! You work so hard for us! You deserve to drink now and then!" NOT!!! I don't see the reasoning in this behavior??? It's like ok you got your drink, now go shut up and leave me alone! and for SURE don't thank me in any way that even remotely "connects" me to that vile disgusting substance! It's just a little "new" for me to think of "abuse" in that light. Maybe I am guilty of harboring stereotypes in my head of walls being destroyed, yelling, name calling, etc... it's just a little unfamiliar to me to call the above examples "abuse" though I am starting to see the connection.

fluffyflea

Abuse can be very insidious and it can be very forthright.

And it takes time to be able to identify and see the abuse.

That's where the three A's come in:Acceptance,Awareness and Action.

Be gentle with yourself and when he's quacking envision SICK on his forehead.

Missus

I think you would find that most people, when exposed to this "silent" abuse, don't immediately recognise it for what it is - we all have the expectation that advise is black eyes, slaps, and so on. Abuse comes in many forms, verbal, emotional, financial - it's about control and grabbing that control in any way that seems to fit. Just because you don't have physical scars doesn't mean it's not abuse.

You are becoming aware of it now, and eventually you may see your path more clearly - take care of yourself :-)

CodeJob

Hi Torque,

Some churches run Celebrate Recovery. Is that any more accessible?

torquemax777

There was nothing in the phone book. But if I start going to that one church that isn't LDS, I'll check into it. Good idea! This being a Mormon town, the nearest place to buy alcohol is three miles outside of town. That's another one of his quacks; that it is only 3.2 low alcohol convenience store beer, not the full strength beer or hard liquor that he used to drink. He is well educated through several years of court ordered treatment to know that ANY alcohol, regardless of the strength, will get you drunk; if you drink enough of it fast enough! And he has bought three 30 packs on Friday and they are gone on Monday! That is 90 beers in about 48 hours! I can't believe I fell for the whole, "lets move back to Utah where I can make $15/hr (my job as a CNA in CO had my hours cut in half, so we were weighing our options) and it will be great moving back there because I will be so busy working 12 hours a day and won't have time to drink...blah blah" Well he makes that much alright and I have yet to find a job for me! SO he justifies in his alcoholic mind, that since he works so hard and his wife doesnt work at all, he "deserves" to drink a little--cough cough ehem... ALOT, and his wife has no room to bitch! Anyway, he forgets that if it weren't for all his false promises, I would have stayed in CO, where I had grown up and have more contacts/resources. Now I am stuck in this po dunk town with extremely scarce opportunities! Sure it was only a part time job there, but at least it was a job, and I could have picked up hours there, gotten a second part time job, or a whole brand new one by now. But Noooo! I felt bad for him, having to sit all last winter in our camper in an RV park while I worked full time. He did some odd jobs, but with the economy as it is and employers can be "pickier" because of it,(picky employers mean that they will rule him out for his alcohol related background check/5 DUI's) he was unable to get a job while I was working full time there. He almost went insane, yet he didn't start to drink until the very end when he started working for the RV park, and all his bosses drank and the liquor store was with in walking distance. i believed him when he said, "even though the RV park is an awesome job, i will be too tempted to drink if I stay there, we should go back to UT where I have gauranteed work, making enough for the both of us! you won't even have to work if you don't want too!" The truth is, he HATED there in CO for reasons that are WAY too long to get into here; but the point is, he found a away to con me back here and now its ME that cant get a job and I am stuck!

torquemax777

I looked into Celebrate Recovery. Sadly, the nearest one is 2 and a half hours away; incidently in the town "I" would eventually like to move to. ;-( Seems like that in this town, where everyone is, for the most part Mormon, (and "supposedly" they don't drink) the rest of us are left to fend for ourselves; no AA, Al Anon, or Celebrate Recovery. Guess they have the "bury their heads in the sand" and sweep the problem under the rug philosophy here! ;-( maybe that's why he wanted to move here; cuz he knew he would have an excuse not to get treatment, "what, it's not my fault they don't have therapy/AA here!" he would say..... SIGH!!!! I've really gotten myself into a pickle moving here!