boundaries
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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boundaries
With AH gone on business, i am working on myself. One thing I want to work on is boundaries. Is it OK for me to say I do not want to be around him while he is trying to quit unless he is working on a program? He's tried to quit so many times by himself, white knuckling,and always falling. I cant keep going down this road. Also, is it fair to bring it up if he hasn't been drinking? Do i only bring it up after a drunken night? I feel like if I bring it up and he hasn't been drinking that I'm "focusing on the negative" or at least that's what AH will say.
I've tried to set boundaries before, and he's said I'm trying to control him. Not my reason for doing it, they were for me, but because they were ones like I wouldn't talk with him when he's drinking (because we fight) or he can't sleep in our bed (because he stinks, i get nauseous and our little boy climbs into bed at night and doesn't need to smell that either) he says I'm being cold and unfeeling and tryingto control him. that he has a right to sleep in his own bed, which is true. he also says he has the right to work or not work a program - also true. But i know if he doesn't, he'll fail. how do you counteract those arguments? This road is getting too tiring.
I've tried to set boundaries before, and he's said I'm trying to control him. Not my reason for doing it, they were for me, but because they were ones like I wouldn't talk with him when he's drinking (because we fight) or he can't sleep in our bed (because he stinks, i get nauseous and our little boy climbs into bed at night and doesn't need to smell that either) he says I'm being cold and unfeeling and tryingto control him. that he has a right to sleep in his own bed, which is true. he also says he has the right to work or not work a program - also true. But i know if he doesn't, he'll fail. how do you counteract those arguments? This road is getting too tiring.
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soverylost.....like you said, boundaries are for you. To protect you. You don't need anyone's approval or go by any set of "protocols" made by anyone else.
The way I see it---you want to protect yourself from the virtually certain relapse down the road. It is up to him to react any way he wants to to your boundary.
******You are under no obligation to justify, Explain, or Defend (if you don't want to). You just need to enforce a boundary once you make it--otherwise, you are just using hollow words.
Almost universally, an alcoholic will not like any boundary that involves their drinking.
If you are a people-pleaser type or try to keep the peace at any cost......you are probably going to have to do a lot of work to overcome this. Your priorities and needs have to come first.....or you will become unhappy in any relationship. If a person is not able to live with your priorities......well, they should not be in a relationship with you.
Tough realities, I know.......
The way I see it---you want to protect yourself from the virtually certain relapse down the road. It is up to him to react any way he wants to to your boundary.
******You are under no obligation to justify, Explain, or Defend (if you don't want to). You just need to enforce a boundary once you make it--otherwise, you are just using hollow words.
Almost universally, an alcoholic will not like any boundary that involves their drinking.
If you are a people-pleaser type or try to keep the peace at any cost......you are probably going to have to do a lot of work to overcome this. Your priorities and needs have to come first.....or you will become unhappy in any relationship. If a person is not able to live with your priorities......well, they should not be in a relationship with you.
Tough realities, I know.......
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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Going through something similar. You say what you have to say and you must stick to it. There is an action, and there is a consequence. I do not think you have to counteract anything. There will be lots and lots of accusations, and yelling and screaming, and periods of niceness if he thinks that he can soften you that way. But you have to stay strong and do what you said you would do if he ... (you can put here whatever you want) ...
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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Thank you for your replies. It will be hard, it was hard before, but I did it and ultimately I allowed my boundaries to drop. I need to do them again.
Another question: it is fair/reasonable/ok for me to give him an ultimatum? This would only be if he got drunk and belligerent again. But can I tell him that he needs to chose, get help or leave? I am heartbroken it's come to this.
Another question: it is fair/reasonable/ok for me to give him an ultimatum? This would only be if he got drunk and belligerent again. But can I tell him that he needs to chose, get help or leave? I am heartbroken it's come to this.
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Boundaries and ultimatums are two very different things and YOU need to be prepared to follow through on both, other wise YOU are just quacking and he'll know that and not respect them.
My question to you would be, saying you don't want to be around him unless he is following some kind of a program that will help him quit, what does that mean to you? Are you prepared to move out? Do you have family, friends where you can go and stay if he choses NOT to work a program?
The same with the ultimatum, where would YOU go and is that your deal breaker? If he drinks again are you prepared to leave the marriage?
My question to you would be, saying you don't want to be around him unless he is following some kind of a program that will help him quit, what does that mean to you? Are you prepared to move out? Do you have family, friends where you can go and stay if he choses NOT to work a program?
The same with the ultimatum, where would YOU go and is that your deal breaker? If he drinks again are you prepared to leave the marriage?
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That's really a hard one. I don't have anywhere to go if I give him that ultimatum. I know i need to be able to follow thru, and I also know I'm hoping that just saying it will be enough. I don't want to end our marriage but i also know it cant continue this way. I know i need to be serious if i say it, so I guess I need to consider my options, as few as they are.
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Don't say anything you don't mean. If you give him an ultimatum, you need to be prepared to follow through immediately.
Hoping he will change by threatening is manipulation and will blow up in your face.
As long as he's not violent, you can take a little time to make a plan before you tell him your ultimatum.
Hoping he will change by threatening is manipulation and will blow up in your face.
As long as he's not violent, you can take a little time to make a plan before you tell him your ultimatum.
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So, would it be fair to ask him to leave instead of me leaving? It would be easier on the kids if they could stay in their home. He would go, that i know, if that's what he chooses. Is that fair to say? Either start working a program or leave?
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Just saying it will not be enough. Trust me. Been there, done that. Not good. You will lose credibility. Think of the things that you can accomplish. You cannot control his drinking, but you can control your environment, your actions. And if you think that you can really make him leave, then it is fair.
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Originally Posted by soverylost 
So, would it be fair to ask him to leave instead of me leaving? It would be easier on the kids if they could stay in their home. He would go, that i know, if that's what he chooses. Is that fair to say? Either start working a program or leave?
He continued to drink, promising that he would stop drinking hard liquor, as he felt that was the real problem.
I left, thereby enforcing my boundary. The house belonged to him outright, so I was not in a position to make him leave.
If he isn't ready to choose sobriety for himself, no amount of trying to control a recovery for him is going to bring about a positive outcome if he is just going through the motions to appease you.
You are within your rights to set and enforce a boundary, and even to issue an ultimatum, but based on your posts I see a lot of your hopes being dependent on his choices. I was extremely disappointed in my ex's choice to continue drinking instead of working to keep our family together. I would have been better off if I had managed my expectations. I definitely underestimated the power of the disease, and my mistake was to take his choices as a personal rejection. Today I see them as a sad testament to the power of alcoholism, but that is after many months of working my Alanon program.
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Can some do it on their own without help?
some can, but that's not the point. how is HIS DIY sober up program going? is he sober NOW. and by sober I mean committed to not drinking at all EVER? is he dedicated to doing everything in his power to stay stopped and work on being a good husband and father?
he probably won't go when asked.
he probably won't go if threatened.
this isn't about what's FAIR, because you really mean what is fair to HIM....and it's HIS nonsense that has brought this situation into your lives.
it's not fair that your little boy has to live in a house ruled by the iron fist of a drunk. it's not fair that you can't trust him. or that there will ever be a time when he's sober and rational that you two can have an adult conversation about what is best for the children.
there is only one person in your AH's life that he really gives a sh!t about - and it ain't you.......or the kiddos.
some can, but that's not the point. how is HIS DIY sober up program going? is he sober NOW. and by sober I mean committed to not drinking at all EVER? is he dedicated to doing everything in his power to stay stopped and work on being a good husband and father?
he probably won't go when asked.
he probably won't go if threatened.
this isn't about what's FAIR, because you really mean what is fair to HIM....and it's HIS nonsense that has brought this situation into your lives.
it's not fair that your little boy has to live in a house ruled by the iron fist of a drunk. it's not fair that you can't trust him. or that there will ever be a time when he's sober and rational that you two can have an adult conversation about what is best for the children.
there is only one person in your AH's life that he really gives a sh!t about - and it ain't you.......or the kiddos.
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The difference between setting boundaries and controlling the other person is that, with boundaries, you are keeping your side of the street clean - which may involve keeping him out of it. It would be controlling if you were trying to influence what he's saying and doing whilst keeping him out of your bit, but it doesn't sound as though you are.
One of the most useful pieces of information I ever received from a therapist is that when someone tells us: "You're selfish/cold/insensitive/rigid (insert derogatory remark of your choice here)" what they're actually saying is "You're not doing what I want you to do", in a manipulative way. Don't even bother arguing. I've found a useful response is something along the lines of "Well, I'm sure I am on occasion!" without justifying, getting defensive or engaging with it.
Alcoholics will react angrily to any boundaries which will stop them getting their own way, with drinking especially, but really with anything which challenges their feelings of entitlement.
I get his feeling that he has the right to sleep in his own bed - but you are not obliged to be in there with him. Is there anywhere else you can go? Similarly, it's up to him whether or not he engages with a program - but you are not obliged to be with him if he doesn't.
In reality, do you have an escape strategy? Think about that before issuing ultimatums.
One of the most useful pieces of information I ever received from a therapist is that when someone tells us: "You're selfish/cold/insensitive/rigid (insert derogatory remark of your choice here)" what they're actually saying is "You're not doing what I want you to do", in a manipulative way. Don't even bother arguing. I've found a useful response is something along the lines of "Well, I'm sure I am on occasion!" without justifying, getting defensive or engaging with it.
Alcoholics will react angrily to any boundaries which will stop them getting their own way, with drinking especially, but really with anything which challenges their feelings of entitlement.
I get his feeling that he has the right to sleep in his own bed - but you are not obliged to be in there with him. Is there anywhere else you can go? Similarly, it's up to him whether or not he engages with a program - but you are not obliged to be with him if he doesn't.
In reality, do you have an escape strategy? Think about that before issuing ultimatums.
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