Al Anon Step Question
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Took me a month to answer one question in the Blueprint book.. was worth it. Eventually I figured it was time to just get on with things so put down my essay answer and moved on. I'll probably go back to it sooner or later.
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Well, I thought I had taken my Step One, but when I REALLY took my Step One, I knew it. It was when my XAH was admitted to a psych hospital for the first time. I felt like screaming at him, but having been divorced for several months and finally away from the chaos, I finally saw how futile and insane my reaction was. There is nothing I can do to
change or manage or fix or handle or control another person. And it makes me crazy to try to attempt it. I was unmanageable.
When that realization snapped, truly down to my
core, I had taken Step One.
change or manage or fix or handle or control another person. And it makes me crazy to try to attempt it. I was unmanageable.
When that realization snapped, truly down to my
core, I had taken Step One.
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Last week she asked me if I wanted to be right or happy. I said happy but thought to myself that I am happy when I'm right…
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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I didnt read the other responses but MY answer would be to "work the steps" until your feelings match what you know to be "the right answers". It aint easy! But realizing how difffidult this is for me, helps me have compassion and empathy for my RA
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
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stung...step work is NOT a test.....there are no RIGHT or WRONG answers....you simply write about where you are RIGHT NOW. you will not be graded. that alone is your illusion of control.....if i just put the RIGHT WORDS down, everything will be ok.
take a deep breath. get back inside your body. take the shoulds out of the equation. and the ought to's.
Bill W, AA co-founder, wrote a series of prayers for each step and also specific situations. now i'm not sure how you are with prayer and higher power/God, etc, but you could probably just insert Universe or Cosmic Spirit, whatever floats your boat. obviously his wording centered around alcoholism.
The Set Aside Prayer:
"Dear God please help me to set aside everything I think I know about [people. place or thing] so I may have an open mind and a new experience. Please help me to see the truth about [people. place or thing]. AMEN." (This prayer comes from the Chapter to the Agnostic, primarily pages 47 and 48).
First Step Prayer
Dear Lord, Help me to see and admit that I am powerless over my alcoholism. Help me to understand how my alcoholism has led to unmanageability in my life. Help me this day to understand the true meaning of powerlessness. Remove from me all denial of my alcoholism. (This prayer is developed from the chapter, More About Alcoholism)
here's the link should anyone find this a useful tool.
Friends of Bill W. - Twelve Step Prayersfromthe Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous
take a deep breath. get back inside your body. take the shoulds out of the equation. and the ought to's.
Bill W, AA co-founder, wrote a series of prayers for each step and also specific situations. now i'm not sure how you are with prayer and higher power/God, etc, but you could probably just insert Universe or Cosmic Spirit, whatever floats your boat. obviously his wording centered around alcoholism.
The Set Aside Prayer:
"Dear God please help me to set aside everything I think I know about [people. place or thing] so I may have an open mind and a new experience. Please help me to see the truth about [people. place or thing]. AMEN." (This prayer comes from the Chapter to the Agnostic, primarily pages 47 and 48).
First Step Prayer
Dear Lord, Help me to see and admit that I am powerless over my alcoholism. Help me to understand how my alcoholism has led to unmanageability in my life. Help me this day to understand the true meaning of powerlessness. Remove from me all denial of my alcoholism. (This prayer is developed from the chapter, More About Alcoholism)
here's the link should anyone find this a useful tool.
Friends of Bill W. - Twelve Step Prayersfromthe Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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You know, I don't think I can really accept it emotionally while trying to have a relationship with my husband. He is so sick that I cannot be in a relationship with him and believe that I should not try to intervene in some fashion. I know he hasn't gotten dry since his last relapse but he is so stupid that he keeps trying to cheat his own system and he thinks that I don't know.
I cannot not tell him that I know. I know. His employees, I'm sure they know. His business partner, friends, everyone. I'm sure they all know and he's sick enough to think that we don't know that he's an alcoholic. Everyone knows that he's an alcoholic and I'm sure that he knows too but he's trying to convince himself that he's not.
I'm pretty sure that he comes here, blows in his SoberLink, and then after he leaves he drinks but just a little bit and then he can blow sober again in another 12ish hours. He's cheating but it's his own system. He's cheating only himself and I cannot restrain myself from letting him know that I KNOW!!! I feel like maybe if he knows that I know that it will change something but OMG I KNOW that there is literally NOTHING that I can do to change anything that he does. It's the most infuriating experience and thought process I've ever experienced. And I keep doing this crap over and over again. What the hell?!
I cannot not tell him that I know. I know. His employees, I'm sure they know. His business partner, friends, everyone. I'm sure they all know and he's sick enough to think that we don't know that he's an alcoholic. Everyone knows that he's an alcoholic and I'm sure that he knows too but he's trying to convince himself that he's not.
I'm pretty sure that he comes here, blows in his SoberLink, and then after he leaves he drinks but just a little bit and then he can blow sober again in another 12ish hours. He's cheating but it's his own system. He's cheating only himself and I cannot restrain myself from letting him know that I KNOW!!! I feel like maybe if he knows that I know that it will change something but OMG I KNOW that there is literally NOTHING that I can do to change anything that he does. It's the most infuriating experience and thought process I've ever experienced. And I keep doing this crap over and over again. What the hell?!
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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ever heard the saying that you should NEVER accuse a woman of being pregnant until you see the baby coming out??? cuz otherwise we are making ASSUMPTIONS.
same thing here....look at how many KNOWS, SURES and PRETTY SURES are in the following statement:
I know he hasn't gotten dry since his last relapse but he is so stupid that he keeps trying to cheat his own system and he thinks that I don't know.
I cannot not tell him that I know. I know. His employees, I'm sure they know. His business partner, friends, everyone. I'm sure they all know and he's sick enough to think that we don't know that he's an alcoholic. Everyone knows that he's an alcoholic and I'm sure that he knows too but he's trying to convince himself that he's not.
I'm pretty sure that he comes here, blows in his SoberLink, and then after he leaves he drinks but just a little bit and then he can blow sober again in another 12ish hours. He's cheating but it's his own system. He's cheating only himself and I cannot restrain myself from letting him know that I KNOW!!!
if you think you know...why isn't that enough? is it about the need to be RIGHT? to have him validate what you think you know? or is the fact that you think you can somehow tell him something he doesn't already know? as in - you have a drinking problem? cuz trust me....he already knows that.
same thing here....look at how many KNOWS, SURES and PRETTY SURES are in the following statement:
I know he hasn't gotten dry since his last relapse but he is so stupid that he keeps trying to cheat his own system and he thinks that I don't know.
I cannot not tell him that I know. I know. His employees, I'm sure they know. His business partner, friends, everyone. I'm sure they all know and he's sick enough to think that we don't know that he's an alcoholic. Everyone knows that he's an alcoholic and I'm sure that he knows too but he's trying to convince himself that he's not.
I'm pretty sure that he comes here, blows in his SoberLink, and then after he leaves he drinks but just a little bit and then he can blow sober again in another 12ish hours. He's cheating but it's his own system. He's cheating only himself and I cannot restrain myself from letting him know that I KNOW!!!
if you think you know...why isn't that enough? is it about the need to be RIGHT? to have him validate what you think you know? or is the fact that you think you can somehow tell him something he doesn't already know? as in - you have a drinking problem? cuz trust me....he already knows that.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Well Stung - when I was in your shoes there was a bit of an internal war because it was all tangled up in trying to mold my future. I could only get my pre-planned life/future if I could control all the pieces of the puzzle. I was very invested in other people's outcomes because it was the only way to get my picture perfect life. I knew things were unmanageable but I had to let go of that vision in my head and stay in today before I could really accept that I had no control.
I let go of that picture in my head, and then the control, the addiction, his actions, the outcomes, all of it. It fell like dominoes and that was hands down the most freeing thing I've ever experienced.
I let go of that picture in my head, and then the control, the addiction, his actions, the outcomes, all of it. It fell like dominoes and that was hands down the most freeing thing I've ever experienced.
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The problem is that one of the primary benefits of trying to sustain our marriage is that I do have full control over the custody of our kids. If we real deal separate then he'll have them 50% of the time completely unsupervised.
Whether he is or isn't drinking right now is really of no consequence to me because he's hiding it really well (besides his body letting off the tell tale stench of booze) so it doesn't really effect me except that he is lying to me about not drinking and pretending like he's going to meetings, or maybe he actually is going to meetings, I don't know. I don't know why I can't just stay on my side of the street. The lying is killing me. It feels like a direct insult to my intelligence. But at the same time I know the lies and the drinking has absolutely nothing to do with me. So why does it p i s s me off so much? It makes me angry. I don't know how to not be angry about it.
Whether he is or isn't drinking right now is really of no consequence to me because he's hiding it really well (besides his body letting off the tell tale stench of booze) so it doesn't really effect me except that he is lying to me about not drinking and pretending like he's going to meetings, or maybe he actually is going to meetings, I don't know. I don't know why I can't just stay on my side of the street. The lying is killing me. It feels like a direct insult to my intelligence. But at the same time I know the lies and the drinking has absolutely nothing to do with me. So why does it p i s s me off so much? It makes me angry. I don't know how to not be angry about it.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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I think it's just a change of mindset.
One of my brothers - now an active alcoholic - was addicted to cocaine for a while. I will never forget him sitting there and telling me how easy he had found it to come off the drug, and would not be using it again... while all the while his face was showing those rippling tremors that amphetamine and cocaine users get... I had to stop myself laughing. I mean, who was he really trying to convince?
It wasn't about me. Your partner's lying isn't about you. It's about the fact that he has a disease, and this is one of the symptoms of it.
One of my brothers - now an active alcoholic - was addicted to cocaine for a while. I will never forget him sitting there and telling me how easy he had found it to come off the drug, and would not be using it again... while all the while his face was showing those rippling tremors that amphetamine and cocaine users get... I had to stop myself laughing. I mean, who was he really trying to convince?
It wasn't about me. Your partner's lying isn't about you. It's about the fact that he has a disease, and this is one of the symptoms of it.
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I wasn't implying you should leave.
I get what your saying about being mad about the lying. It is offensive. You do not have to pretend to believe him though. *You* don't have to lie. You can proceed with your truths. You can just leave him alone for now, which is what you are doing. I agree with Rosalba about the mindset. If you can get to a place where you can see it as part of his disease and not something he is doing to you, it will help. I wish I had some wisdom on how to get there.
I get what your saying about being mad about the lying. It is offensive. You do not have to pretend to believe him though. *You* don't have to lie. You can proceed with your truths. You can just leave him alone for now, which is what you are doing. I agree with Rosalba about the mindset. If you can get to a place where you can see it as part of his disease and not something he is doing to you, it will help. I wish I had some wisdom on how to get there.
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Originally Posted by Stung 
The lying is killing me. It feels like a direct insult to my intelligence. But at the same time I know the lies and the drinking has absolutely nothing to do with me. So why does it p i s s me off so much? It makes me angry. I don't know how to nuot be angry about it.
Studied it pretty hard, too.
The condition, that is, more than her, per se.
Seems about 5 to 10% of *them," get that constant lying HARD their first year. Not just about the Alcohol (or other Addiction). The lying becomes an Addiction in itself, and sort of creates a buzz or high.
Guess I have mentioned the "100 Lies in 100 Days," God Box for me and the kids? You know how those work?
Talked to more than a few Long Term Serious AA-ers about it. Was so strange My Old Folks Alananny Angels were not at all familiar.
The recommended path out (all on the A side) is:
1. Very Serious HARD Sponsor
2. Very Dedicated to the Program.
3. Serious Outside (like T) Help.
In our case, she choose NONE of them, and has less than favorable results.
HOWEVER -- You and I can choose to do all three and become VERY Happy with the Results -- for us.
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Maybe you're so pissed about the lyeing because you feel like YOU are not making progress? That when (if) he tells the truth you feel like you have some grip on his recovery, because you know whats going on?(control) Giving you some temporary relief, like maybe you are winning the battle? The lyeing shows you you have no/cant controll, fix, change him? Anyways I think thats why the lyeing pisses me off... Its like hitting a brick wall! One more step backwards, another day with no progress...but thats MY problem...expectations, control, not letting go and letting God...those things I can work on and fix on me. A woman in my al anon meeting says she learned NOT to pray for her AH because he has his own higher power...I had to think on that one a while. It finally made sence.
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Originally Posted by Stung
The problem is that one of the primary benefits of trying to sustain our marriage is that I do have full control over the custody of our kids. If we real deal separate then he'll have them 50% of the time completely unsupervised.
Whether he is or isn't drinking right now is really of no consequence to me because he's hiding it really well (besides his body letting off the tell tale stench of booze) so it doesn't really effect me except that he is lying to me about not drinking and pretending like he's going to meetings, or maybe he actually is going to meetings, I don't know. I don't know why I can't just stay on my side of the street. The lying is killing me. It feels like a direct insult to my intelligence. But at the same time I know the lies and the drinking has absolutely nothing to do with me. So why does it p i s s me off so much? It makes me angry. I don't know how to not be angry about it.
Whether he is or isn't drinking right now is really of no consequence to me because he's hiding it really well (besides his body letting off the tell tale stench of booze) so it doesn't really effect me except that he is lying to me about not drinking and pretending like he's going to meetings, or maybe he actually is going to meetings, I don't know. I don't know why I can't just stay on my side of the street. The lying is killing me. It feels like a direct insult to my intelligence. But at the same time I know the lies and the drinking has absolutely nothing to do with me. So why does it p i s s me off so much? It makes me angry. I don't know how to not be angry about it.
Being real for a minute. Do you really think that he would want or be able to take care of your daughters alone 50% of the time? Honestly? Would he really step up and handle business? Because right now you are doing basically everything with/for them if I'm remembering your past posts correctly. The man can't even handle an epi pen lesson. Does he do poop diapers? Potty time? Three (allergy friendly) meals a day? Playtime? Naps? Bath? Bedtime? Tantrums?
That list could go on ad infinitum, but I think I've made my point. Just because he theoretically could get half custody doesn't mean he will eagerly and aggressively seek it out.
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Involved, everything you said resonated. When he was sober from Jan - May he was telling the truth like his life depended on it. He was being open and upfront with EVERYTHING. Like it was almost annoying he was so upfront. And I'm probably expecting at least that he isn't telling me bold faced lies but he is. I know he's been skipping meetings recently. He wanted to side step those lies with what his definition of recently actually means to him. I think you nailed it with temporary relief but not because I'm winning necessarily but because if he isn't in crisis mode it makes it infinitely easier for me to focus on myself.
LadyScribbler, if we split it'll be because I am initiating it. He doesn't want to split. He won't leave me. If I for real file for divorce or legal separation it's going to be like starting a war. He's also convinced that I'll divorce him and I'll try to control the situation so that he'll NEVER see our kids. Further, even if he wouldn't fight me tooth and nail, MIL would. She's out of the picture because I basically am running the show here single handedly. He could bring her back into the picture as his "support." Which would suck because I have no family behind me but he has one big seriously dysfunctional family behind him and I don't think the courts will care that AH and his dad and siblings are all active alcoholics. None of them have been arrested or in any legal trouble. I'm not afraid because no matter what AHis their dad but I'm planning for the worst. A wounded AH and crazy MIL teamed up against me and fighting over my kids is bad, bad news for my kids.
LadyScribbler, if we split it'll be because I am initiating it. He doesn't want to split. He won't leave me. If I for real file for divorce or legal separation it's going to be like starting a war. He's also convinced that I'll divorce him and I'll try to control the situation so that he'll NEVER see our kids. Further, even if he wouldn't fight me tooth and nail, MIL would. She's out of the picture because I basically am running the show here single handedly. He could bring her back into the picture as his "support." Which would suck because I have no family behind me but he has one big seriously dysfunctional family behind him and I don't think the courts will care that AH and his dad and siblings are all active alcoholics. None of them have been arrested or in any legal trouble. I'm not afraid because no matter what AHis their dad but I'm planning for the worst. A wounded AH and crazy MIL teamed up against me and fighting over my kids is bad, bad news for my kids.
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Stung - it wasn't until I fully accepted that I was powerless over others that I stopped obsessing if he was or wasn't. When I stopped obsessing, he got pretty honest about his addiction, which wasn't any better then the lies.
Keep working on you, it will all click in time. But as long as i had an emotional investment in what he was doing, I couldn't stop obsessing.
Keep working on you, it will all click in time. But as long as i had an emotional investment in what he was doing, I couldn't stop obsessing.
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Understood. My dad did the same when my mom left him. His folks bankrolled his legal fees and his mom was unrelentingly nasty from start to finish, drawing everything out, interrogating me and my brother. It got ugly.
So you and your daughters's best interest is for him to work recovery. Second best is for him to totally crash and burn to some irretrievable point at the same time that his mom keeled over dead, which would be sad but also give you an advantage.
I sometimes forget how lucky I was to just be able to take my kids and go. One dead ex husband and another nonfunctioning alcoholic baby daddy are looking pretty good right now.
So you and your daughters's best interest is for him to work recovery. Second best is for him to totally crash and burn to some irretrievable point at the same time that his mom keeled over dead, which would be sad but also give you an advantage.
I sometimes forget how lucky I was to just be able to take my kids and go. One dead ex husband and another nonfunctioning alcoholic baby daddy are looking pretty good right now.
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