Woodman123

thanks to all of you who responded to my last post- good thoughts/advice- as always.

so, different question here... well, maybe not question so much as comment. Now that my AW has sobered up (by virtue of being in the psych ward), she is back to the "Hi honey" and "I love yous" again, 1 day after the vitriol of "I hate you... you've abused me... blah, blah, blah". We all know the alcoholic spews so much crap, but what is it about this effing disease that prevents them from acknowledging, or at least being sorry for what happened? I know they likely don't remember much, if anything. But why can't they acknowledge they did or said things when confronted by witnesses? I understand if it's just me telling her, but when my MIL or FIL or DD or DS also concur with the behavior, there's NO ability for my AW to own up to it.

It's not just the alcohol. I've been drunk before- very drunk- and said and done some not too nice things. And even being in a complete stupor and barely remembering the previous day, I sure as hell never denied what happened, particularly if more then one person told me what I did/said. Then I was quick and profuse in my apologies/amends.

I guess that's a key difference with respect to the alcoholism pathology (and i've read some really great articles posted on this site about this). It tricks the brain into not only denying, but not even opening up the possibility that bad things happen- all to protect the demon of the bottle. I know I'm just stating what is well-known in this forum, but just had to comment as I'm always dumbfounded by it.

happybeingme

Its shame and embarrassment in my opinion that keeps the alcoholic from believing or acknowledging the truth. I also believe that until a person is willing to do this they will remain sick.

Also booze arent a demon. Its just a substance. I think that by calling booze demon it is giving it a power that doesnt exist and its a built in excuse for relapse. The demon alcohol was just stronger than my resolve. Thats bunk.

BTW I am a recovering alcoholic woman

dandylion

Woodman....do I EVER get what you are saying. At times, it seems that they are just tu rning reality upside down. LOL.
Actually, in their own mind---filtered through the alcoholic voice that is always "whispering" to them.....their reality is completely different than ours.

I think you read the articles by Floyd P. garrett, M.D. I go back to those and re-read them all the time---to remember what I am up against. It helps to keep me from personalizing to much. To hate the disease and not the person......

dandylion

Woodman123

Thanks for the correction Happy- you're right.

Woodman123

Yes Dandylion, I have read them- they are great. You may have posted these at one point?

I know that the amends part is much later in recovery, so I'm not expecting that in any way. But to be told (by 3 people) of heinous things that were said little more than 48 hrs ago, and for the alcoholic to completely deny this??... it's sheer madness!

Fly N Buy

Quite simply, the alcoholic is the perfect self-centered, ego maniacal evolutionary ( or lack there of ) machine.

Remember in Jaws the comment Dreyfus made about the shark? it is an eating a machine - a model of perfect evolutionary miracle. It eats, swims and makes other sharks.
We are like sharks with our self will and ego.

Drinking is but the symptom ........

Open the AA Big Book online - it's free. Read about the nature of the alcoholic. There are different types but self-centeredness tops the list of defects of all.

hopeful4

In my opinion she suffers from severe mental issues. One of those issues are the inability to be wrong and the inability to own up to their rotten behavior. That's her talking, not the alcohol. They are one in the same.

It's likely she knows what is about to happen and the manipulation starts up again.

Woodman123

Oh My do i know this!! unfortunately, this is a character trait my AW, MIL and her sister all share to the nth degree. Long before alcohol was a factor, there's this pathology of never admitting wrong, even in the face of incontrovertible evidence!. Had I seen the 'runway' on this personality trait 24 years ago, I'd definitely have taken off at a different airport!

Plays right into my codie behavior, because I'm always admitting my mistakes and apologizing for them.

Hammer

a+

Hammer

Woodman, you (or others) may get some insight from Paul Henry. Recovering A, working hard on the Program and WHY it works.

Assessing the “Alcoholic Personality”? | Inside the alcoholic brain

Looking at doing some PhDiddlely type stuff with this guy.

hopeful4

Thanks Hammer, I feel like I just got my head patted!

Shellcrusher

Ummmm.
Did you start this thread, or did I? j/k

It never ceases to amaze me at how broad and all encompassing the subject is that someone will always say something that is exactly the same as what I'm thinking, experiencing, questioning, etc.

m1k3

Can't speak about others but my father and wife truly fit the description for being a narcissist. The only thing that is real to them is themselves.

Your friend,

Butterfly

Dandylion do you still have the links??

TalenCrowhaven

Personally, I've found the alcoholic brain to be very similar to brains with borderline and narcissistic personality disorders.

Woodman123

Butterfly and others: I just googled Floyd Garrett (thanks Dandylion!) and found a whole page of his publications- some great reading!

Original Papers on Addiction & Recovery

Hammer

yeahhhh. That is where a LOT of this is heading . . . fMRI, Genome/Genetics, even the Behavioral Psych folks. The currently acceptable buzz term is "Emotional Dysregulation."

BUT that does not mean ALL folks who mis-use, over-use, or abuse Alcohol and various Drugs have Personality Disorder issues. Some folks do it from traumatic issues, and other mis-coping -- however a LOT of Personality Disorder folks do have Alcohol and Drug Abuse problems -- and those tend to be some of the more extreme.

My early guess on it that is going to come in along the spread of the 4 levels of Alcoholics that the AA Big Book made by observation (Chapter 8, To Wives) almost 80 years ago.

totfit

There is no Alcohol pathology, or disease of alcoholism that makes people act different when they are not drinking. In spite of "recovery speak", these are just issues that a person has otherwise. Now they may have contributed to alcoholism or being under the influence for more often than not can also contribute to some social/psychological difficulties over time, but there is no alcoholic tendency, pathology, disease, that make a person act different when they are sober. If there are issues left after quitting, then it is something else and needs to be treated as such.

AnvilheadII

well put tofit...if i was to add anything it would be that bad habits are hard to kick....and alcoholics can develop some BAD habits...not just the drinking, but how their lives become centered around drinking and all that must be done to protect and defend that. alcoholics certainly haven't cornered the market on lying, but the entire process almost demands it from time to time - whether that be lying to themselves OR to others. and then there are the three horseman of rationalization, justification and denial. skewed ways of thinking that become ingrained, second nature, HABIT.

so when the alcoholic puts down the drink there are still this plethora of bad behaviors, stinking thinking, rituals and habits that don't just melt away overnight.

and then sometimes, people are just not very nice drunk OR sober!!! or as has been stated here have other underlying issues, mostly of the mental realm, that are driving forces.

dandylion

LOL....guys.....I know how to turn mice into alcoholic mice!!!!!!

I can turn cute little white mice, grey field mice and great big ol' New York City Rats.......

Then I can turn them back..... What I get are the same kind of rodent that they were before....IF they didn't get too much brain damage.....and, I give them long enough time to heal. Only problem.....I have to keep the whiskey locked up because they want to get into it if I give them a chance.

THIS IS A JOKE JUST TO MAKE ONE SMALL POINT.......
to bring a bit of comic relief........Hammer seems to bring this out in me.....

dandylion