OT - Married Guy #3
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
There are married men who will cheat and others who won't. They're not hard to discern. Cheaters put off a vibe. The instant I pick up that vibe, MY vibe becomes, "No, I'm not interested." Verbally or non-verbally you can let them know that you have respect for the women they're married to and you're not going to tread that ground. Not to mention that you have respect for yourself.
Do you find it flattering that a man finds you attractive in your sweaty, smelly state? I feel like that's what you're hinting at because you've pointed it out more than once. As in, "He must really truly like ME because it's definitely not about my appearance right now." Be careful not to find too much flattery in that, Pippi. It doesn't make MG#3's intentions any more honorable just because you're not in full hair, makeup, and expensive perfume. Cheaters are cheaters and they prey where there is opportunity.
A former co-worker of mine found herself in a situation very, very similar to yours several years ago with her abusive alcoholic husband. They are now divorced, but before the divorce was final, she had already involved herself with married men. She continued her behavior after the divorce and has established her reputation as a cheater herself. Women don't trust her around their husbands, and she's lost friends. She still carries on as if other women are oblivious to her actions. Women aren't dumb. Anyone even near the perimeter of her social circle picks up her vibe. People spot cheaters, Pippi.
I also have a life-long best friend who had affairs with married men (four that I know of) over a long period of years. The first affair ended her marriage...she was unhappy in her marriage...that was how she justified the affair. The next two were flings. And this last one nearly destroyed her. She fell HARD. It was deeply romantic, they 'connected' on emotional and physical levels...it was all 'perfect'. He kept telling her how badly he wanted to leave his wife and be with her, but he couldn't because of his children. Well, it turns out he never had any intentions of leaving his family. The affair is over now, but it has taken my friend years to heal. The good news is that she actually FEELS remorse for the first time in her life for all of the pain that she has caused so many people, especially the wives of each of these men. She is just now admitting the depth of what she has done. She said she always knew she was hurting others, including herself, but figured out ways to rationalize.
You know, Pippi, you don't have a right to other women's husbands. And you owe yourself more respect than to convince yourself it's okay to be with them. You owe it to your children. They are smart. They WILL find out, one way or another, maybe soon, maybe later, but they WILL find out. No matter how you justify it, someone always gets hurt.
Do you find it flattering that a man finds you attractive in your sweaty, smelly state? I feel like that's what you're hinting at because you've pointed it out more than once. As in, "He must really truly like ME because it's definitely not about my appearance right now." Be careful not to find too much flattery in that, Pippi. It doesn't make MG#3's intentions any more honorable just because you're not in full hair, makeup, and expensive perfume. Cheaters are cheaters and they prey where there is opportunity.
A former co-worker of mine found herself in a situation very, very similar to yours several years ago with her abusive alcoholic husband. They are now divorced, but before the divorce was final, she had already involved herself with married men. She continued her behavior after the divorce and has established her reputation as a cheater herself. Women don't trust her around their husbands, and she's lost friends. She still carries on as if other women are oblivious to her actions. Women aren't dumb. Anyone even near the perimeter of her social circle picks up her vibe. People spot cheaters, Pippi.
I also have a life-long best friend who had affairs with married men (four that I know of) over a long period of years. The first affair ended her marriage...she was unhappy in her marriage...that was how she justified the affair. The next two were flings. And this last one nearly destroyed her. She fell HARD. It was deeply romantic, they 'connected' on emotional and physical levels...it was all 'perfect'. He kept telling her how badly he wanted to leave his wife and be with her, but he couldn't because of his children. Well, it turns out he never had any intentions of leaving his family. The affair is over now, but it has taken my friend years to heal. The good news is that she actually FEELS remorse for the first time in her life for all of the pain that she has caused so many people, especially the wives of each of these men. She is just now admitting the depth of what she has done. She said she always knew she was hurting others, including herself, but figured out ways to rationalize.
You know, Pippi, you don't have a right to other women's husbands. And you owe yourself more respect than to convince yourself it's okay to be with them. You owe it to your children. They are smart. They WILL find out, one way or another, maybe soon, maybe later, but they WILL find out. No matter how you justify it, someone always gets hurt.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 284
Hi Pippi,
You know I'm mostly as clueless as you are when it comes to men now, but I just wanted you to know that I hear you with the crazy town of grown up adult relationship dynamics. Things seemed very simple to me too when I was married. They WERE simple for me because I made the rule for myself to be faithful. Apparently, not all people make that rule for themselves. And, yes, it's probably very naive to expect that from people. You know... we are still in charge of making our own rules about who we will be involved with. It's just not as simple as it once was.
Now, I don't generally know single men. Heck! I don't really even know any men! How does one find them? I don't know. I'm not really excited about online dating. And, my interests are more in line with other women's interests I guess. I'm thinking about starting to swim again at an adult masters level, and I'm sure I would meet some men there. In my past experience though, these men can be very into themselves. Dunno if I would find anyone I could relate to personally. And, who knows if any of them would be single anyway? Either way, my motivation for joining a club will be for me, not for finding a partner. That, for me, is one of my lowest priorities at the moment. If I happen to find someone I can have fun with a share some nice moments with, great. Otherwise, I'll be working on those gentle let downs.
Anyone have some good ones we can practice with?
Peace,
Fathom
You know I'm mostly as clueless as you are when it comes to men now, but I just wanted you to know that I hear you with the crazy town of grown up adult relationship dynamics. Things seemed very simple to me too when I was married. They WERE simple for me because I made the rule for myself to be faithful. Apparently, not all people make that rule for themselves. And, yes, it's probably very naive to expect that from people. You know... we are still in charge of making our own rules about who we will be involved with. It's just not as simple as it once was.
Now, I don't generally know single men. Heck! I don't really even know any men! How does one find them? I don't know. I'm not really excited about online dating. And, my interests are more in line with other women's interests I guess. I'm thinking about starting to swim again at an adult masters level, and I'm sure I would meet some men there. In my past experience though, these men can be very into themselves. Dunno if I would find anyone I could relate to personally. And, who knows if any of them would be single anyway? Either way, my motivation for joining a club will be for me, not for finding a partner. That, for me, is one of my lowest priorities at the moment. If I happen to find someone I can have fun with a share some nice moments with, great. Otherwise, I'll be working on those gentle let downs.
Anyone have some good ones we can practice with?
Peace,
Fathom
Keeping it simple!
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 3,282
Originally Posted by PippiLngstockng 
I didn't process it until I got home. I had just had an intense workout, was disgustingly smelly and sweaty, got home put kids to bed took a bath and then realized what had just happened.
I am slow like that.
I am slow like that.
I really wasn't going to post this but here it goes. When I was caught up in my drinking I did go out with married men. For the same reasons you stated in your previous thread. No complications because I wasn't looking to take them away. And it gave me some control because my life and drinking was so out of control. And I can admit it, it did make me feel powerful.
I was not at all interested in dating these men or having any kind of future with them. I just wanted them to buy me booze and make myself basically feel good and make me feel some kind of power that I could make them stray. This is hard to write as I was never, ever this kind of person. I have been cheated on in the past and I swore I would never do this to anyone else.
At least call it what it is. It's really not rocket science in that aspect. We look for these people. It's a ****** thing to contribute to the breakup of someone else's marriage.
I would encourage you to go to some of the infidelity sites and read some of the stories from the betrayed spouses over there. It's not victimless even though we are not trying to take these spouses away. The heartbreak these spouses feel is horrible and is a real eye opener.
I am still ashamed to this day. There is no going back once you cross that line. You live with it for the rest of your life.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
Stung - I trusted MG #3. He doesn't seem like anyone but the greatest, smartest, nicest young family guy. I felt like we were friends. I probably told him things that I shouldn't have once. Because sometimes I go to a training and we run for 2 hours together and things surface when you run. But when I look at him I just see a nice sensitive family guy. I never ever saw cheater. I saw a really good person. I saw a friend.
What if my radar doesn't work? Xah was someone I met and my very first strongest impression was that here was a man I could trust. So did everyone else. But I have always believed in my radar and since Xah disclosed himself to be the most horrible person I have ever met, I thought I still had good radar but he is just exceptionally gifted at portraying himself as trustworthy. Heck, most people still swear up and down what a fantastic guy he is and loving, responsible father. You should see the letters he brought to court from colleagues and the family doctor detailing what a wonderful fellow he is.
But then I also trusted MG #2 when I met him. So nice and quiet and down to earth. I did not get that he was a). Married and b). A cheater.
Then MG #3? I can't believe it.
What if my radar doesn't work? Xah was someone I met and my very first strongest impression was that here was a man I could trust. So did everyone else. But I have always believed in my radar and since Xah disclosed himself to be the most horrible person I have ever met, I thought I still had good radar but he is just exceptionally gifted at portraying himself as trustworthy. Heck, most people still swear up and down what a fantastic guy he is and loving, responsible father. You should see the letters he brought to court from colleagues and the family doctor detailing what a wonderful fellow he is.
But then I also trusted MG #2 when I met him. So nice and quiet and down to earth. I did not get that he was a). Married and b). A cheater.
Then MG #3? I can't believe it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
HWC - i can't have a reputation because I have never touched a man in this country since I moved here 4 years ago. And going back to what I just wrote about my radar, I am wondering about the entire premise of the whole 'vibe' thing. I don't know. MG #2 actually told me to be careful because he said I seem to be in an unusual state and that makes me appealing but vulnerable. I do feel strangely appreciative of all the people - women and men - in my life, who all seem so wonderful compared to divorce lawyers and xah, anyway. I guess I feel receptive to people. I feel glad to be amongst sober adults is all. I am glad to have escaped xah!!! It's like I am getting out of the longest darkest creepiest tunnel into the light, and when I arrive with the sun on my face I want to thank God and hug (platonically!) the people that just happen to be walking by near the tunnel exit.
I didn't imagine that with all this great sunlight and air, some of those folks don't understand my joy and aren't necessarily the right people to be smiling happily at.
I didn't imagine that with all this great sunlight and air, some of those folks don't understand my joy and aren't necessarily the right people to be smiling happily at.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
Hi Fathom,
Thank you. I appreciated waking up to your post!
Swimmer guys are lovely. If they are gorgeous and have big pecs ( many are/do!), yeah, they probably know it. I never knew swimmers until recently but I have loved learning to swim. It has changed my outlook and my life. Worth every painful floundering, gasping for breathe humiliating moment of the past two years in the pool.
I don't do sports to meet men. And tons of women swim - most much better than I. But I am going to imagine you a nice wholesome single unaddicted swimmer guy. Why not?
Thank you. I appreciated waking up to your post!
Swimmer guys are lovely. If they are gorgeous and have big pecs ( many are/do!), yeah, they probably know it. I never knew swimmers until recently but I have loved learning to swim. It has changed my outlook and my life. Worth every painful floundering, gasping for breathe humiliating moment of the past two years in the pool.
I don't do sports to meet men. And tons of women swim - most much better than I. But I am going to imagine you a nice wholesome single unaddicted swimmer guy. Why not?
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 4,225
Originally Posted by PippiLngstockng
I did say no, in my own way!!! I told him I met someone I really like and was happy about.
To be honest, telling him you met someone you like is avoiding the issue. He is married. No go zone. I would be expressing my disgust at him for dishonouring his wife by making such an advance.
Or are you interested in him except for the fact you are seeing someone else? Because that is the response you gave him.
None of my business. But these kinds of men need to be told this is not OK, and to me is an insult to your own morals for him to even consider that you may say yes.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
Ladyin BC - thanks for your honesty. I am sorry you had those days in your life that make you feel ashamed now.
I don't feel fabulous about MG #s 1 and 2, either. Drat it. I don't go to bars and I don't drink - but MG #2? That was like getting wasted in some respects. I know. And once I dropped that boundary, what next? That is why I am posting and thinking like crazy.
I do feel for the wives. Ridiculously, I am just like their wives. But even older, with yet more children!!! I am not a 20 or even 30-something year old nitwit that they are picking up in the wee hours of the night. Yesterday I was just like their wives. Today I am too, only I am free of their laundry and getting home late and annoying habits. Stupid xah. He went to other women too, probably. And I and all the lovely sacrificing wives were/are also underneath it just as sexy and fun and fantastic - more so - than any gal they happen to meet.
I don't feel fabulous about MG #s 1 and 2, either. Drat it. I don't go to bars and I don't drink - but MG #2? That was like getting wasted in some respects. I know. And once I dropped that boundary, what next? That is why I am posting and thinking like crazy.
I do feel for the wives. Ridiculously, I am just like their wives. But even older, with yet more children!!! I am not a 20 or even 30-something year old nitwit that they are picking up in the wee hours of the night. Yesterday I was just like their wives. Today I am too, only I am free of their laundry and getting home late and annoying habits. Stupid xah. He went to other women too, probably. And I and all the lovely sacrificing wives were/are also underneath it just as sexy and fun and fantastic - more so - than any gal they happen to meet.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
Croissant - I really am slow. I wasn't getting what he was saying hardly until I got home and thought. I did tell him I had met someone but I did that instinctually. I don't know why I am so stupid, but my mother is also really slow to process things and it takes her days of thinking to sort out people stuff.
I would never go near MG #3!!!
I would never go near MG #3!!!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
The last 2 threads you have started have the same theme as this one and have gotten closed.
You want to discuss your titillating married men "friends" and justify your behavior, people respond with sound reasoning, you continue to play the naive victim role.
Great, you learned to swim ! Great, you have a healthy hobby....but your mindset is way off base. You seem to enjoy attention any way you can get it...what are you teaching your kids, especially your 14 year old daughter?
Why don't you make friends and chitty chat with women you train with? Or find a sport with a women's team?...
You want to discuss your titillating married men "friends" and justify your behavior, people respond with sound reasoning, you continue to play the naive victim role.
Great, you learned to swim ! Great, you have a healthy hobby....but your mindset is way off base. You seem to enjoy attention any way you can get it...what are you teaching your kids, especially your 14 year old daughter?
Why don't you make friends and chitty chat with women you train with? Or find a sport with a women's team?...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
My threads didn't close because of me, but because the replies got out of hand, as I understand it. If this topic bugs you, Fandy, I did say it was OT...
My mindset is not stuck. My life is in massive transition, like a lot of us here. I come here to figure things out because it is a place far from the people I interact with and I have learned a lot from what folks in similar circumstances have experienced. Isn't that why you are here, too?
If I had it all figured out and had done all the things according to strict Al anon guidelines, I could post things that might get lots of approbation. Unfortunately, I find myself being very human at the moment. I was being a good al anon disciple, but something rebellious seems to have kicked in.
My mindset is not stuck. My life is in massive transition, like a lot of us here. I come here to figure things out because it is a place far from the people I interact with and I have learned a lot from what folks in similar circumstances have experienced. Isn't that why you are here, too?
If I had it all figured out and had done all the things according to strict Al anon guidelines, I could post things that might get lots of approbation. Unfortunately, I find myself being very human at the moment. I was being a good al anon disciple, but something rebellious seems to have kicked in.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
I didn't say your mindset was "stuck", I said it was "way off base", in that you ONLY seem to seek out married men for friendship and share confidences. your "trust" is in what you know is someone else's husband.
what you didn't answer is why you don't confide in women or seek out women friends from your athletic teams. Or join a women's team.
major transitions don't have to mean behavior that is harmful/hurtful to others and yourself.
Just because you are broke and don't have a job, you wouldn't go to the grocery store and steal food and produce. (just an analogy, I am not implying that you would shoplift).
I don't practice al anon or AA so I cannot comment on their principles, but this is just more issues on top of your vicious divorce fight.
what you didn't answer is why you don't confide in women or seek out women friends from your athletic teams. Or join a women's team.
major transitions don't have to mean behavior that is harmful/hurtful to others and yourself.
Just because you are broke and don't have a job, you wouldn't go to the grocery store and steal food and produce. (just an analogy, I am not implying that you would shoplift).
I don't practice al anon or AA so I cannot comment on their principles, but this is just more issues on top of your vicious divorce fight.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Originally Posted by PippiLngstockng
My threads didn't close because of me, but because the replies got out of hand, as I understand it. If this topic bugs you, Fandy, I did say it was OT...
My mindset is not stuck. My life is in massive transition, like a lot of us here. I come here to figure things out because it is a place far from the people I interact with and I have learned a lot from what folks in similar circumstances have experienced. Isn't that why you are here, too?
If I had it all figured out and had done all the things according to strict Al anon guidelines, I could post things that might get lots of approbation. Unfortunately, I find myself being very human at the moment. I was being a good al anon disciple, but something rebellious seems to have kicked in.
My mindset is not stuck. My life is in massive transition, like a lot of us here. I come here to figure things out because it is a place far from the people I interact with and I have learned a lot from what folks in similar circumstances have experienced. Isn't that why you are here, too?
If I had it all figured out and had done all the things according to strict Al anon guidelines, I could post things that might get lots of approbation. Unfortunately, I find myself being very human at the moment. I was being a good al anon disciple, but something rebellious seems to have kicked in.
Calling you out here. You instigate a bit of drama here by posting controversial threads. Most people here have been affected by cheating in some way, you know that at this point.
Now you can post whatever you want and the mods can decide to keep them up or not, but I find it insincere for you to act surprised/naive/fill in the blank when folks call you on your inconsistencies (victim on the one hand with ah, predator on the other with other women's husbands).
You seem like a nice person who has been emotionally drained and is trying to fill a void with unhealthy relationships. No relationship is better than a toxic one. It seems like you should know that given your ah. I am sure you are lonely and it is scary raising 4 kids alone, but it won't be forever and your kids do sound fairly balanced and responsible. Things could be much worse on that front.
Why not just enjoy the flattery of someone flirting with you without leading them on or giving into an attached man? I have been hit on by many marrieds over the years and just smile and walk away. I don't make big deals out of any of it and certainly never get romantic with them.
Do you think you are acting out?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
A big moment for me in all this was realizing how the vibes I put off with men repulsed the nice guys and attracted the not-so-nice guys. I'm still attracted to the not-nice guys, but I know better than to wade into that pool, because I'm a self-reflective adult.
I had NO BOUNDARIES. Guys who abuse and use LOVE ladies who have NO BOUNDARIES.
There's no mystery here. You like the attention, that's fine. I get it. You've been missing out on a lot in and out of your marriage, and you feel vulnerable and needy and maybe these guys (with their own user/codependent issues) want to "help" you in whatever (codependent/user) way seems fun at the time. But. You're treading some morally choppy waters here and refusing to recognize that you absolutely play a role in it.
If you're someone who is known to play with married guys, the married guys looking to get some strange are making a beeline for you. No mystery.
The only common denominator here is you, Pip.
I had NO BOUNDARIES. Guys who abuse and use LOVE ladies who have NO BOUNDARIES.
There's no mystery here. You like the attention, that's fine. I get it. You've been missing out on a lot in and out of your marriage, and you feel vulnerable and needy and maybe these guys (with their own user/codependent issues) want to "help" you in whatever (codependent/user) way seems fun at the time. But. You're treading some morally choppy waters here and refusing to recognize that you absolutely play a role in it.
If you're someone who is known to play with married guys, the married guys looking to get some strange are making a beeline for you. No mystery.
The only common denominator here is you, Pip.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
