Lol FireSprite, I was tempted to say this same thing. BUT, having grown up with a mother who "got rid of her problem", as she likes to say, by leaving my alcoholic father, I know it's not that simple. She simply turned her codependent energy to other areas of her life. Mostly on my brother and me, but also to her other relationships as well (work, family, friends). She also suffers from paranoid schizophrenia, which makes it extra fun.
For anyone on either side who is not truly working a recovery I think that scapegoating and lack of self-reflection will always be weapons which are used to bludgeon others.
Anyone who comes from a toxic family of origin can make that choice not to spend time with people who verbally or emotionally abuse them.

I stayed because of dysfunctional coping mechanisms and thought patterns, lack of boundaries and/or no skills to identify and uphold boundaries, emotional enmeshment, fear, love, desire for family, pity, stubbornness, obligation, and I was raised in a family just like the one I helped create so it is all I knew.

I could write pages of why I stayed. It is kind of like asking why are you an addict. There are a lot of complex factors.

Yup. That is kind of why we hang out here.

Actually everyone is going to decide for themselves what they face up to. Many alcoholics die drunk and many co-dependents die bitter and broken. What are you going to do? All I can do is determine which direction I'm going to go.

There is a solution to that you know. Here and in real life. Just like we (F&F) have the power to get away from people that are damaging us - so do you. Do you find it ironic that you are all fired up and frustrated about other people? You come here complaining about how much this forum and your family annoy you because they complain about other people instead of staying in their own hula hoop. Because I have to tell you - it is very familiar.


Yup. That is why we are here and in al-anon etc. It is a messy difficult process and if it annoys you, look away.

Coming here to bitch at us doesn't look like looking inward. It looks a lot like looking at and worrying about someone else's problems. I recognize that because I've invested a lot of time in it over the years but now that I am learning a new way to live - I realize what a colossal waste of life that was.

And I stayed for 16 years - and then I left. We all reach our bottom eventually - of whatever particular hole we are in.

Thumper, wonderful post!

Dragoninthesky is a troll. This poster trolled the alcoholics forum, then announced he/she was quitting the forum and left. Now he/she is trying to get everyone here agitated. Don't let yourselves get worked up by someone who has no intention of engaging in a dialogue but is just here to insult and demean.

A year ago Dragoninthesky's post would have absolutely infuriated me. Now, I often find myself asking the same questions when I read people's shares here. Many us on the friends and family board DO have very unhealthy attachments to people who have shown over and over that they are not trustworthy, healthy partners. We think we can change them, we think we can fix them. And oh, the pain we put ourselves through before we finally accept that we can't. I think you hit the nail right on the head, Dragoninthesky.

I spent years in denial, trying to make things work, trying to fix my partner, doing everything I could to rewrite the simple fact that I had chosen badly when I chose my partner. But the truth is, you cannot rewrite reality. And trying to do so is called DENIAL. The past few months have been the best of my life because I have chosen to live in reality rather than in Denial Land. I finally broke up with my partner and started putting myself first.

Yes, Dragoninthesky's delivery could have been a bit more gentle, but speaking as someone who has been the codie in a relationship with an addict, I think sometimes we need to be shaken up a bit in order to wake up and see what's really happening in our lives. Think about this if you feel angry while you read his message. In my opinion as a recovering codie who has stepped away from the madness, he is absolutely 100% right.

And just to be clear, I am not better than anyone else -- I spent years, YEARS in an unhappy relationship before I finally understood that I could only change myself.

While I do not care for the tone of the OP's post and I think that the answers have been wonderful, I have to admit that I do not know who I am more frustrated with, my alcoholic mother or my codie father. I have nicknamed them in my head, Sick One and Sick Two. I have come to the point of giving up hope fo either one of them. I just offer this as insight for those of you who are parents and are thinking that your kids are only angry with the alcoholic. I should say that I would be proud and thrilled and supportive of either one of them if they were to honestly admit that they have problems and work on getting real help.

In answer to "why do we stay," in my case, my therapist once told me that I was "in thrall" with my AH. So, frankly, I had heard that in the context of mythology and fairy tales, but I had to look up the definition:


Definition of THRALL

1a : a servant slave : bondman; also : serf
1b : a person in moral or mental servitude
2a : a state of servitude or submission <in thrall to his emotions>
2b : a state of complete absorption <mountains could hold me in thrall with a subtle attraction of their own — Elyne Mitchell>

I suppose that explains it to a degree. I have asked your question to myself a million times and have not yet figured out an answer.

Last week, I attended my uncle's funeral. It was SO GREAT to be with my family, because we are part of a mutual admiration society, and being with them just makes me happy. So in spite of sad circumstances, I did have some great conversations with my cousins and aunts.

They know of my situation, even though I hardly get to see them. One cousin said to me after she asked how AH was doing (subtext: how's the drinking going), "Boy, you took til death do us part literally!"

Then, when I went to say goodbye to my aunt who was leaving (it was her husband who had died), she literally grabbed my hands and said, "do you regret staying?" I mean, it kind of came out of nowhere, and I had no answer, and I still don't.

I love my husband. He's a huge jerk when he's drunk, but a fun and loving and wonderful guy when he's not. And my family represents the principle of math that two negatives = a positive, because my children are absolutely wonderful, responsible, caring, with-it human beings. So I'm not backtracking on that. Maybe if I regret anything it's my own lack of gumption with regard to behavior that could have actually helped the situation instead of just going along with it.

Feel free not to. Nobody dragged you to the friends and family forum. If I went to the alcoholics' forum (which I don't and never will), I wouldn't post that I'm sick of what they're saying over there.

Very interesting question despite the vitriol.

The reasons I staid were and not in any particular order:

1. I grew up in an alcoholic home, to a large degree what I experienced was normal.
2. I was in denial. I was sure there was some other reason for her behavior.
3. I thought I could save her. There had to be something I could do, I just didn't know what.
4. I loved her so much. I couldn't imagine not being with her
5. I loved me so little. I never realized how small my self esteem was until I started recovery.
6. Guilt, how would she survive without me.
7. Fear, how would I survive without her.
8. There was so much I didn't know about her disease and mine.

I left 3 years ago and am in the middle of a divorce at this point. I have a strong recovery program and have achieved a measure of serenity. I continue to post to let others know recovery works and there is hope, if not for their qualifier at least for them.

When I came to this forum I too was full of hate and anger. My world had just fallen apart and i was lost. Most newcomers to here are in the same boat. We are all at different points in our recoveries and many are struggling with all the issues that in a large degree were thrust on them by loving an alcoholic.

I have found that compassion for the plight of others often helps me put my perspectives back in place.

Your friend,

Humdinger of a post.

I love target shooting with my .22lr.
I happen to think I'm pretty good at it.
Probably because I practiced my whole life.

I don't love my AW.
I happen to think I suck at taking care of me and working on my own issues.
Probably because I haven't been practicing for it my whole life.

I'll try if you will.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.

Edit: Thank you for allowing me to practice something long over due.

Shellcrusher, welcome back. I'm not here as much as used to be but its been awhile since I've seen you post. Hope things are going well.

Your friend,

It's not that easy when there's a family involved I don't think, my parents tried to work things out for the good of myself and my sister.

My mum didn't suddenly throw in the towel on her marriage of 15yrs at that time, she spent time trying to repair and gauge the best thing to do, she was holding down a full time job, raising 2 kids, it wasn't so black and white as get up and leave.

I don't think she even knew how to deal with the issue, she was on her own struggling on with my dad's alcoholism, until finally she gained the courage and strength to say "no more" and finally my parents divorced.

Dragon you make it sound so simple, but I assure growing up amongst the chaos of alcoholism, it's far from it!!

My 2 cents :)

Why do I stay?

Simple. I'm a dysfunctional human. Just like you. Hi, Pot. I'm Kettle.

Also, I know that simply leaving my marriage doesn't really solve the whole problem just as when an addict just stops using it doesn't really solve the whole problem. Alcoholism is but a symptom. Same thing works here.

Staying with abusive people doesn't make much logical sense, right? That's how I view addiction. I have compassion for people who are addicts but at the end of the day, I'll never understand the compulsion to consume substances just like I don't expect you to understand what it's like over here to stay with someone who hurts you.

Lately when I find myself thinking about why other people do what they do (or feeling like calling people out for their own dysfunction), I realize that I'm looking for a distraction from figuring myself out or an excuse to prove that I'm not THAT bad.

it should also be noted the original OP hasn't found his own way to JUST STOP yet.......

It has taken me a while to learn this, but I often find that reading a member's earlier posts will help me know how to respond to a current post. In this case, I found it very helpful to read the earlier posts. I'd recommend it to anyone who is reading/posting here in order to get some perspective.

I have just now had the time to read many of the posts in this forum, (I'm still not finished) and before I respond to any, I must respond to this: I am absolutely 100% NOT A TROLL totallytrying. As a matter of fact, I find it quite interesting that you would call me out as a troll when you have no more than four posts of your own. If you took the time to read any of my other threads I think you would recant that statement.

I've been through ups and downs on this forum, but have never, ever posted anything just to try and get reactions from others or hurt people's feelings. I knew my post would come off as insensitive to some of you, and I understand why...but it is the way I feel and the state I was in at the time. I know some of it came off as harsh and could have been stated differently, but that's not how I work. I don't water down my words, and if some people get mad or offended, so be it. That doesn't make me a troll totallytrying....learn the difference, please.

Even so, I appreciate all of the responses thus far, and please believe that I am taking to heart all of the sincerity, honesty and truth that is coming from so many of you. I have a crazy day to day, but will try my best to respond to many other posts when I get the chance.

Okay, time for one more "easy" response before I have to head out. My cat's name is Tremolo (my husband and I are both musicians...hence the name lol), and we (well I) found him at the humane society. He's a Turkish Angora, and is quite the stinker. He has seriously been the light of my life some days when I just don't want to get out of bed and face the world. He has an amazing, calming purr, and is so loving. The truth is, I would have been gone from this world a long time ago if it wasn't for animals. Here's another picture where you can see his gray tail. His nose isn't normally gray...he must have been digging in one of my plants! lol

Interesting read so far. I am an A myself, but also an ACoA and was in a relationship before my drinking problem took off with someone who was addicted to chaos.

I am in recovery, 12 steps, and what I have found is that I wished I would have found it years ago. To deal with my parents, the abusive drinking father and the codependent hypochondriac mother. To deal with that relationship where I was clearly (only after I discovered what this even meant) codependent and strived to fix her despite the chaos and the horrible things she did and said.

Working a recovery program taught me to focus on me. If something bothers me, it is me. Sometimes I am reacting or thinking incorrectly. And sometimes, it isn't my cup of tea and I can establish a boundary. It is simple. It is beautiful.

I sometimes wonder too when I read some of these stories, why stay. So I try to offer insight on what I've been through or a kind word. I do the same with other As who struggle because that is what we do. But everyone has to learn in his or her own way.

Sometimes I think of the phrase "cast the first stone" when I think about my own alcoholism!!

Did I quit alcohol immediately when I first realised it was affecting my life? no chance, I denied there was even a problem for a long time, and then when I started to come around to the idea that I may need to reassess my drinking, I then started to try and moderate and control my drinking, that then continued for a long time, until finally I made the decision that abstinence was the only answer!!

But from drinking, to realising there was a problem, to finally becoming Sober, I am literally summing up a period of YEARS!!

So the idea that someone looking in on addiction could flick that switch and reach a quick fix is unrealistic, when in fact the addict themselves may not be able to do it either!!

In fact if it was that easy, what would be the point of SR? is it time to shut up shop as it's easy? how about we close the whole Forum down? no point in wasting time on something so easy!! (I exaggerate to make my point)

My point is it's not easy, support, time, advice and learning are all required to get people through the situation they are dealing with, and that is fine with me, as god knows I needed a lot of time to sort my own addiction out, so why shouldn't those looking in on addiction warrant the same grace in coming to grips with their loved one's addiction?!!