Pippi's Gotten Used to Things

Old 07-28-2014, 04:35 PM
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Pippi's Gotten Used to Things

I have always adapted well. Too well.

Went to the US and was in two 3-hour mediation sessions with xah, his lawyer, mine, and a mediator. Very expensive undertaking. We proposed settlements, we got nothing real back. He didn't even hand in his financial statement until mid-way into the second session - 5 weeks past due.

He's hid $70,000 since March of extra earnings. Didn't put a penny into fixing up our house that he's been wrecking, or his credit card debt that he blames on me.

I did get much of my stuff out of the house. That made me feel better, though I have no place to put any of it.

Then today we had what I thought might be the final two hours of mediation and then we'd be divorced. I went for literally the best most beautiful run of my life. Then half an hour later he proposed that I stay on the mortgage with him for the next 7 years. 7. He started by asking for one year and it has steadily risen.

When I went to the house last week to get my things, rain was falling through the skylight onto the unprotected hardwood floor, making a puddle. Again, as there was evidence of much damage in and around the skylight. There's an infestation of carpenter ants in the beams. The deck has rotted away and the whole chimney could slide off the roof at any moment. The house smells. There's cat hair and dust everywhere. There's half empty boxes in five of six bedrooms. The beautifully green well kept property is a mess of hay and tall weeds.

I feel checked out. The lawyer and mediator think he is depressed, controlling, potentially suicidal.

I just want to be free. I go about my life as though everything is great. People seem so nice. Colors so bright.

At the end of the mediation, after 7 hours of acting like he wanted the house, he started to suggest that DD14 would want to live there with him. And DS11, too. Then, shortly thereafter, he declared during tonight's mediation number 3 that he wanted to sell the house, charging me for half the repair costs, and move to Europe.

The mediator wanted to know what I thought of that. I told her that that was rather sudden after thinking with 7 hours of mediation behind us that we might be done already. And that it was healthy to want to be by his children. And that he's abusive so this would be hugely problematic in my own life.

When I think of him moving to Europe, the first thing that I think of is my life being suffocated by his. Next, that he'll kill me.
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Old 07-28-2014, 04:45 PM
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Pippi- Hang in there it is almost over

I know what I know I want to say but I will refrain and send you hugs
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Old 07-28-2014, 04:47 PM
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Oh Pippi, I don't know what to say, but my heart is with you.

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Old 07-28-2014, 05:21 PM
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What an a-hole.

What do you think is the best response?

I sure wouldn't let him see any panic about him coming to Europe or he will for sure.

Poker face.

Do you think he is suicidal and crazy, or is it another manipulation?
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Old 07-28-2014, 05:26 PM
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surely the attorneys can both see that he is completely irrational, wasting all the negotiating time by frittering back and forth..he wants to keep this going on and on because it is his last shred of control, he is hanging on by his fingernails that he has chewed off...7 years on the mortgage...if you could hope he would expire by then? but he will keep going.

I hope the judge awards that he be responsible for YOUR attorney fees.
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Old 07-28-2014, 05:34 PM
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I think he's all 3, Hawkeye. Crazy, suicidal and manipulative.

His parents stayed with him at our decrepid house with 3 of our children visiting too. Apparently, they were very upset by the state they found -him?, the house? Children? - that they left days early. They have always stood by him up until now.

He has lived for their approval.

I just have to keep steady. My children are counting on me.

I am home with DD7, DS11 and DS17. But DS17 leaves to join xah and DD14 at the (crazy) house tomorrow.

He doesn't want to go. I have no ability to control any of this. I have to trust God that everything will be okay.

Agree with Fandy. He's hanging on by his pinky nail with all his might. It isn't pretty.
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Old 07-28-2014, 05:48 PM
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Well, he's gonna need a titanium pinky nail if he keeps this crap up.

I'm glad you got most of your stuff at least.

How is he behaving with your kids so far?
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Old 07-28-2014, 05:56 PM
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It's like banging your head against a brick wall isn't it?
One minute this, the next minute that.
No logic whatsoever & you have to pay to hear this stuff??
I pray that this will all be over soon for you.
Just keep being the wonderful mum you are & one foot in front of the other.
Hugs.
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Old 07-28-2014, 06:06 PM
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I think you are kicking a** and I am so blown away but your strength!

Don't stay on that mortgage for one second. OH NO WAY. Read my previous posts there are several on here about bankruptcy after divorce. If he is that unstable who knows what will happen - you don't want to be tied to a foreclosure or bankruptcy after you are done.

Hoping for a peaceful ending.
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Old 07-29-2014, 02:05 AM
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All this is teaching me that I don't care. I don't care! He's all about himself and his threats and manipulations. I just got to step to the side and let him wear himself out.

If he moves here I'll figure things out too. I can always move back there, to the US then :-)
And get a decent job. I just need to keep happy and strong.

This is what happened with the mortgage. The deal on the table was the following: i stay on the mortgage with the agreement that he pay to fix up the house and we sell it later or he buys it from me( started with one year, then 3, then 5 then yesterday he wanted7 years!). In the meantime, he cosigns any lease for a rental property that I want to move to. This would allow the children and I to secure a larger and/or cheaper apartment. Right now the landlords are not crazy about the single foreign mother with four children and an American source of income thing, to say the least.

What the lawyers saw in his response to this proposal is:

a. He didn't seem to get that this is a fair trade, putting us each at risk financially on the other. And how this arrangement would be positive for the children.

b. he apparently 'came alive' at the possibility of my having the freedom to relocate. This was the only time he'd become animated in 7 hours of mediation. They saw it as his wanting to control me and thus that is why he cancelled all possibility of settlement and decided to move to Europe.

Alas. I thought I might be free after last night.

He doesn't want me to be free. Ever.

The lawyers think he is depressed, potentially suicidal, controlling and unpredictable. His lawyer looks positively shaken and eager to lose her client. She seems like a nice gal. I don't know how she can work for him. But someone has to defend the murderer.

In divorce, they allow all sorts of horribleness to go on without consequence. It is legal to hide money from your children and your spouse. To drag out a divorce intentionally until the spouse hasn't a penny left for legal fees. To leave four vulnerable children in the hands of a lunatic addicted abusive father. As long as he's rich.

I don't care. When I care too much I become incapacitated. I have a life and children to cherish today.

Word of advice: don't marry an addict or a narcissist. Let my story be a warning to you!
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Old 07-29-2014, 04:16 AM
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I dunno.

That he has let the property fall into such shambles I am not sure that he has the ability for whatever reason to "fix the house up". And he is so vindictive……..

I gotta say again I wouldn't personally walk away from that table with my name on the note. A divorce decree does not supersede a contract - you will still be liable for that note no matter what your divorce decree says the stipulations are. The bank does not care - and it will be on your dime to bring him back to Court to enforce those stipulations though you may be able to get attorney fees after the fact (certainly should be part of the agreement). That he is making money but continuing to rack up debt a huge red flag. I would take that option of selling even with the quackery of moving to Europe with a very strict timeline.

His attorney probably hates him. I am sure they had a negotiated plan going in and if she could have would have been pulling her hair out at the table. This man is just insufferable.

Hope today you achieve freedom!
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Old 08-04-2014, 03:01 PM
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The lawyer and mediator think he is depressed, controlling, potentially suicidal.
So much more reason for them to help you get out of that entanglement as soon as possible. Keep your chin up.
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Old 08-05-2014, 04:32 AM
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Chin fell hard today, Lillamy.

I dropped 3 kilos last month. I have no desire to eat. I can't sleep that often. A couple of hours here and there.

I just feel like giving up. You know how people protest by not eating? I think I am doing that.

He isn't going to stop until he destroys our lives. He's worse than ever. The divorce counter proposal his lawyer sent me is the craziest piece of sh*t I have ever seen.

I blame the judicial system for allowing him to destroy us and our home financially, emotionally. They just take the money until we have nothing.

I've been on this super happy high until today. It was to counter the darkness that he is that is suffocating me.

If I fight or if I give up, it is all the same in the end. He leaves us with nothing.

My spirit is tired of fighting. I am exhausted. If I wind up in the hospital, if I give up, he'll still try to kill me though. He won't stop until I am extinguished.

As a footnote, I didn't take anyone's advice on the married man front. Go ahead and kick me. I met someone fabulous while in the US. I had the most romantic, loving, incredible time with someone who is married, bright, sensitive, sexy as h*ll, and it feels awfully genuinely like the right choice. He lives on yet another continent and writes beautifully every day and scheduled a trip here to see me next month and then again in October.

At the same time, my married neighbor is asserting himself rather thoroughly in my life and he's awfully nice and smart and kind to me. I haven't touched him but it feels like a matter of time at this point.

I figured out why the married ones. Because a single man could get all wound up with me and next thing I know they are obsessed and trying to control my life just like xah is doing now. These two guys are distracted by their wives, successful careers, fortune-building, egos and progeny. They might adore me but they are sober, calculating and self-interested. They aren't about to obsess about anything regarding me. I am just a pleasant diversion on a warm summer day.

I don't care!!! I just want some good moments before the roof caves in and xah finally kills me!!!
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Old 08-05-2014, 05:07 AM
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Oh wow Pippi - you have really been through hell. I am so sorry that this continues to be such an ordeal for you. XAH can only destroy you if you let him. I get that you are tired of this fight. Eventually though it has to end. And it will end with you alive.

As for the marrieds - I get that too at least I get that you are enjoying the "strings free" attention. Getting caught in an affair is a cluster f**k like you can't imagine. But I am not going to sit here and lecture you about bringing something else negative into your life (like a wife finding out about you) because I see it is your escape, and a waste to try.

Wishing you peace and strength - and praying that this will all end soon you have really been through enough.
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:13 AM
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I'm not going to pass any judgment on you for what you are doing... but 2 wrongs don't make a right either.

As for myself, I practice the old "Do the right thing". I don't think I could cause that kind of pain for another woman, Karma and all. not to mention what it can do to the kids if they suspect.

Your divorce will become final one way or another and you will move on, get a job, your kids will grow up, you'll sleep and be able to eat without a hole burning through your stomach eventually.

or you can just walk away without as much as you think you deserve and be done with him....get your name off the mortgage most importantly.

please believe me when I tell you that 10 years from now, none of the possessions will matter much, you earn your own money and buy your own real estate.
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:53 AM
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Let me share with you what just happened to me as it might help in some fashion.

In the midst of dealing with all the back-and-forth with my STBXAH, my old boyfriend contacted me last year. This is the man I was with before my husband and who broke my heart into 20 million pieces, who said all the right things, couldn't live without me, etc etc. Until the day came that he could live without me.

After 7 years of NC, he reached out to me last year to make amends. Apologized for breaking my heart, told me over all these years he didn't move out of the neighborhood b/c he didn't want to be away from me (we lived 3 blocks away), for years he dreamed of us married with kids, and when he saw that I got married he went into a depression and therapy. Said he lived in regret forever as we were a "once in a lifetime love." (Hearing all this caused some agony, as my STBXAH was not anywhere close to treating me like a "once in a lifetime love")

This happened several months after my marriage started splitting apart and after I found the cheating text messages between my husband and his work colleague and after the drinking had already spiraled out of control.

At first this provided some relief - my old boyfriend was making amends! He was validating the pain he caused me years ago and he was genuinely sorry! I felt great about it, and that he was actually seeing the real me and my feelings, and actually cared about them.

Well as the year progressed and my marriage continued to unravel we kept in sporadic contact (how are you, etc). I had met him once last year for a platonic dinner during the making amends phase and it was healing.

Then he began to bring his feelings into the present day. Saying he wanted to have me over to see his apartment but was afraid he would kiss me, so let's just meet for drinks somewhere. I deferred that - I wanted to wait until I was through dealing with my mess of a marriage. Then he told me he was in a relationship and I thought great - I have my clarity - there is nothing here. Then he told me he was out of his relationship. Then he told me he wanted to meet again (the sooner the better he said). Then he told me again he has feelings for me, but that now he didn't want to meet b/c he didn't trust himself that he wouldn't kiss me and he is in a relationship so let's postpone. This all happened in a matter of 6 weeks. I finally had enough - don't contact me EVER again I said.

My point? While it made me feel good to hear all these great things about his feelings for me while my marriage was unraveling, it has just hurt all the more in this latest round to hear he has feelings for me but won't act on them. It is another hurt on top of the marriage implosion.

My learning from this that might be relevant for you is that you may be opening yourself up for even more hurt. It is so easy for them to say what we want to hear and when we are in our vulnerable states we believe it - every word. It feels good, since it is a distraction from the awful reality of our marriages/daily lives, and we think that they genuinely care - since why would someone who is not an A say something that they don't mean? Then at some point something happens, the jig is up and we are left holding the same damn bag of hurt and pain.

Do you want to keep taking that kind of risk with your heart?

While nothing physical happened with my ex-boyfriend, the sting of the rejection is particularly acute on top of the disintegration of my marriage. The fantasy was great while it lasted. Now it is just more pain and sadness.
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Old 08-05-2014, 08:40 AM
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My perspective comes from Pippi's side as I once had as affair with a married. It's like a drug I have to say - that kind of passion that most affairs have. And everything is so perfect, the person is perfect, you are perfect and that pesky demonic spouse who gets in the way. The lengths you will go through to be with each other only and your little secret that adds to the obsession.

But we got found out as most do.

Then it went from perfection to hell. I got lucky that the wife focused all her energy on maintaining her marriage than revenge on me. I know another who was not so lucky and her life was destroyed by a wife whose hatred went on for a couple of years and ended with warrants for harassment and lawyers.

Aside from all that was the loss of my lover who I THOUGHT would leave his wife for me. I had been told he would after all she was such a horrible person and all and we were best friends. Not so much. He was the horrible ******* person and so was I. He used to tell me all the bad things his wife said about him and I would sit there and just hold his hand and say "I'm so sorry she treats you this way". Well guess what, everything she said about him was TRUTH.

After the recovery and in reflection affairs are just fake bubbles. We presented the best to each other so we never had to deal with our flaws. Nothing about it resembled a real relationship. It wreaked havoc on my life for a year and half and he simply wasn't worth it. A liar, is a liar, is a liar. Of course there were others other than me……..

That was 7 or 8 years ago. He still contacts me here and there. I used to write "f**k off lose my number" but even that was encouraging. Now I don't respond at all just delete.

Anywho you have to walk your own path.

As for the neighbor a word of advice, don't s**t where you sleep.
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Old 08-05-2014, 09:50 AM
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Well, I think I have figured out this. Treat these married guys as though they are the nice, loving, masculine fellows they want to portray. Enjoy them at their best, compliment, benefit. They can be absolutely lovely.

Then make no question about it. They are liars and cheats. Who knows what else. Don't let them think you are a fool. And don't be a fool. Don't wait around for them, but find them a line or two in your dance card. Let them chase.

Married guy #1, he lives with his family on the other side of the world completely. His wife is unlikely to come find me. He doesn't intend to leave his wife but he really needs to talk. We act like we are totally in love. He basically says he is in love with me. I know not to expect anything from him and then he will come to me on his own. At least for now. He's done this before. Maybe a lot.

Married guy #2 I haven't touched. He is being my training partner. He is about a perfect match to my sports abilities. I couldnt ask for better. All can seem pretty friendshipy. But his face completely changes with the phrase 'the children will be with their father for a few days'. Like, who is he suddenly? He looks like he is concentrating very seriously and he looks driven. Hmmm.

How does any of this nonsense benefit me? As long as they are nice, I am sick of waiting around for the right guy. At the rate xah is going, he or I or us both of us are going to be dead before long. I want every day possible to be a gift. And these guys are smart, strong and they make me smile. I will learn from and enjoy them as long as they behave themselves. They are both well established cheats and liars so I don't expect a wife to fixate on me. I also don't intend to stick around too long.

This is like a drug and now that I let go of that boundary, you could say that I am going to be in trouble. I don't think this phase will last that long.

Eventually a nice man will come around and I will be ready for him. Unless xah destroys me first.
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Old 08-05-2014, 10:08 AM
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pippi, I ain't no saint here. I had a "friends with benefits" after I left my ex. I also considered a married man.

The "friends with benefits" ended, because we were only meant to be friends. It would have been like jumping from the fire back into the frying pan. The reason it worked for awhile was because he needed to keep his "mask" on. If he took his "mask" off and exposed his real self, we would have had a biiiiiigggggg problem. We decided we just wanted to be friends, so that we could have each other in our lives. If we continued, it would have been a disaster.

Married men, I thought about that for awhile. I was so envious of good marriages. I wanted one of those men. But what would I have actually gotten?

I realized that I was afraid of making another mistake. I didn't want to be serious with anyone, but I wanted to feel loved and cared about. I think in a way I also wanted to feel attractive, and someone who might be worthy of another man.

I wanted to "practice" dating. I wasn't feeling too good about myself, and these men were safe because it wouldn't go anywhere. I didn't want to rebound to someone who was actually available. That would scare the cr@p out of me.

I did find out that I needed to love myself and appreciate myself. That I didn't need a man to make me feel attractive. It was OK for me to just love me for who I was. I'm close to 6 years out after a 25 "in" marriage. I am just starting to think of a different future for me, and that I might be able to handle one.

We've been so beaten down, made to feel undesirable, that we tend to seek any kind of positive attention shown us. But is this what we really want?

I think sometimes at the end of the day, I knew it was just a farce, and it didn't make me feel any better.
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Old 08-05-2014, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by PippiLngstockng View Post
Eventually a nice man will come around and I will be ready for him. Unless xah destroys me first.
I guess my concern for you is this; Will you really be ready like you say in the above sentence? If you are settling for more crumb-taking in these Band-Aid relationships, is it REALLY helping you further your ability to develop healthier future relationships? I fear that you are setting yourself up for more drama & eventual hurt because you have bigger expectations of these relationships than you are acknowledging.

That just maybe you are Acting Out from a Place of Hurting, without regard to who else YOU are hurting in your path & that one day you will wake up & say, "This isn't who I wanted to become in my recovery". Like someone else said, 2 wrongs don't make it right.

I won't lie - as a married woman no matter how much I *understand* your POV I can't condone it. It would devastate me to be on the receiving end of this treatment & while I've certainly had the opportunity for this many times over in my lifetime, it's definitely a hard boundary for me.

I'm sorry you are feeling low & hurting Pippi, and I'm sorry that your Ex is continuing to put you through these ridiculous paces. If it is looking like in the end you'll have lost everything of value to either neglect or legal fees, why hang on to ANYTHING? (I think you recently managed to get possession of most if not all of your material things left behind?) Why not just agree to walk away & worry more over child/spousal support instead? Get your name off of any kind of liability, let him have the assets he's going to ruin anyway & start over RIGHT NOW instead of letting him jerk you around like this? (Sorry if I'm oversimplifying or if you've already answered this questions ad nauseam...)
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