What's progress?
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Alaska
Posts: 276
What's progress?
Wasn't sure whether to post this in the F&F of Addicts forum or here, so I guess I'll just cross-post? My husband is a recovering heroin addict, but since we met & got married, our biggest problems have always been caused by his approach to alcohol.
I'll try to keep this background as brief as possible: My husband freely admits that during periods of his life-namely when he was still using also, or when he wasn't, but also wasn't actively in treatment-he would get "falling down drunk" regularly. Three years ago, he finally sought permanent help & has been on a Suboxone & counseling program ever since. I know, I know-Suboxone is a "Bandaid", but we really can't turn our noses up at the only thing that's kept him clean, employed, & healthy since age 20-something.
Anyway, his upbringing was SO toxic as to still be a barrier for him. His mother is, without going into too much details, judgmental, dramatic, gossipy, pushy & cray-cray. She tells anyone who will listen that his father "was an alcoholic" & she "raised the kids alone"; she's the type whose philosophy is that never drinking, ever, at all, is the only way. She's even gone so far as to tell me that my husband "wasn't drinking at all" when we met, & now he is, because of me.
Newsflash, lady: he's just really good at hiding it. How do I know this? Because when we were dating, he had entire 12-packs of beer in his room, & his room was a pigsty (he was living with his parents at the time), because it prevented her from going in there.
I also know this because, over the course of our year-long marriage, I've had to confront him about finding his hidden stashes more than once. He doesn't hide all of his booze, mind you-just the hard alcohol (as other people here have said, why is it always crappy vodka?!).
Maybe I'm naive...or overconfident...or? But to me, the problem is NOT that he can't handle his liquor. Not at all. The problem is that he's been conditioned to believe that he can't, & therefore, he thinks that he has to be sneaky or hide things, because otherwise, I'll judge him, corner him, & start harping on him about how "he can't handle his alcohol", "look what happened with your father", etc.
I do not believe that he's an alcoholic. On the contrary, I think he's perfectly fine having a drink after work, or a couple of beers while fishing, or whatever. (This may sound completely contradictory given that HE has said he used to get falling down drunk.) He doesn't get "falling down drunk", & I've asked him many a time whether he believes he has a problem (the answer is no), or if he really thinks his dad was an alcoholic (again, no).
Is this a completely ridiculous way to look at it? Should I, too, be telling him he can't drink at all, that he has a "family history" & a personal history that say he shouldn't? I feel like I should be supporting him in a way that his family hasn't (especially his mother), & that that means trusting him with adult decisions like whether or not to buy a six-pack or have a drink after work, not shaming him into hiding things again. We have finally just gotten to the point where he will store his liquor for mixing drinks in the freezer, instead of hiding it under the bathroom sink or something...
Maybe I'm going at this all wrong? Maybe I'm trusting him TOO much because of how far he's come & how well he responds to the conversational, "this is a discussion" type approach, compared to how poorly he responds to direct confrontation & my getting angry at him?
I keep telling him that I am proud of him, that he has come so far & is being so proactive about his treatment, going to his appts., counseling, etc; I tell him that it is not the drinking that bothers me, but the fact that he feels he needs to hide it, because that means that he doesn't trust me enough, & that he must feel that I too am going to judge him & make him feel ashamed. I tell him that if something WERE wrong, I wouldn't be able to help him or listen to him if he continued to hide things, & that we're a team, & it hurts me to think that he really must believe that I'll just get mad at him.
What should I consider progress? For example-the other night, out of sheer curiosity, I went through various places in the house that could be hidey-holes, & pulled out a bunch of empty bottles that he's had hidden over the course of the year. When he got home from work, I sat him down & asked him to explain it to me; we had a productive, long talk that ended on a good note-he apologized for having been secretive, & he agreed to make some extra counseling appointments & be more open with me.
The next night, he bought himself some juice & vodka. It went straight in the fridge/freezer, where I could plainly see it.
Should I consider that progress? Or am I just fooling myself here?
Sorry it's so long...
I'll try to keep this background as brief as possible: My husband freely admits that during periods of his life-namely when he was still using also, or when he wasn't, but also wasn't actively in treatment-he would get "falling down drunk" regularly. Three years ago, he finally sought permanent help & has been on a Suboxone & counseling program ever since. I know, I know-Suboxone is a "Bandaid", but we really can't turn our noses up at the only thing that's kept him clean, employed, & healthy since age 20-something.
Anyway, his upbringing was SO toxic as to still be a barrier for him. His mother is, without going into too much details, judgmental, dramatic, gossipy, pushy & cray-cray. She tells anyone who will listen that his father "was an alcoholic" & she "raised the kids alone"; she's the type whose philosophy is that never drinking, ever, at all, is the only way. She's even gone so far as to tell me that my husband "wasn't drinking at all" when we met, & now he is, because of me.
Newsflash, lady: he's just really good at hiding it. How do I know this? Because when we were dating, he had entire 12-packs of beer in his room, & his room was a pigsty (he was living with his parents at the time), because it prevented her from going in there.
I also know this because, over the course of our year-long marriage, I've had to confront him about finding his hidden stashes more than once. He doesn't hide all of his booze, mind you-just the hard alcohol (as other people here have said, why is it always crappy vodka?!).
Maybe I'm naive...or overconfident...or? But to me, the problem is NOT that he can't handle his liquor. Not at all. The problem is that he's been conditioned to believe that he can't, & therefore, he thinks that he has to be sneaky or hide things, because otherwise, I'll judge him, corner him, & start harping on him about how "he can't handle his alcohol", "look what happened with your father", etc.
I do not believe that he's an alcoholic. On the contrary, I think he's perfectly fine having a drink after work, or a couple of beers while fishing, or whatever. (This may sound completely contradictory given that HE has said he used to get falling down drunk.) He doesn't get "falling down drunk", & I've asked him many a time whether he believes he has a problem (the answer is no), or if he really thinks his dad was an alcoholic (again, no).
Is this a completely ridiculous way to look at it? Should I, too, be telling him he can't drink at all, that he has a "family history" & a personal history that say he shouldn't? I feel like I should be supporting him in a way that his family hasn't (especially his mother), & that that means trusting him with adult decisions like whether or not to buy a six-pack or have a drink after work, not shaming him into hiding things again. We have finally just gotten to the point where he will store his liquor for mixing drinks in the freezer, instead of hiding it under the bathroom sink or something...
Maybe I'm going at this all wrong? Maybe I'm trusting him TOO much because of how far he's come & how well he responds to the conversational, "this is a discussion" type approach, compared to how poorly he responds to direct confrontation & my getting angry at him?
I keep telling him that I am proud of him, that he has come so far & is being so proactive about his treatment, going to his appts., counseling, etc; I tell him that it is not the drinking that bothers me, but the fact that he feels he needs to hide it, because that means that he doesn't trust me enough, & that he must feel that I too am going to judge him & make him feel ashamed. I tell him that if something WERE wrong, I wouldn't be able to help him or listen to him if he continued to hide things, & that we're a team, & it hurts me to think that he really must believe that I'll just get mad at him.
What should I consider progress? For example-the other night, out of sheer curiosity, I went through various places in the house that could be hidey-holes, & pulled out a bunch of empty bottles that he's had hidden over the course of the year. When he got home from work, I sat him down & asked him to explain it to me; we had a productive, long talk that ended on a good note-he apologized for having been secretive, & he agreed to make some extra counseling appointments & be more open with me.
The next night, he bought himself some juice & vodka. It went straight in the fridge/freezer, where I could plainly see it.
Should I consider that progress? Or am I just fooling myself here?
Sorry it's so long...
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Posts: 6,516
Well... you're asking in a forum for friends and family of alcoholics... I'm NOT saying that's the wrong place to ask, you are very welcome here and I'm glad you found us -- but I think you may get different answers here from other places, just because of the experiences people here have.
What first got my ears to perk up in your post was this:
My take on that? No. No, you shouldn't. You shouldn't be involved in his choices at all. He's an adult. If he wants to stay clean, he will stay clean. If he wants to drink, he'll drink. I think I would be less concerned about what constitutes progress for him and more concerned about how much I would want to center my life around the habits of my spouse.
I don't know your situation and shouldn't speak to it -- but I can tell you about mine: I used to be married to a guy who did different drugs AND drank. Of course, I didn't know this, naive as I was. When I found out, I told him the second I found illegal drugs in the house, I would walk, and I would divorce him. He ditched the drugs, and became an alcoholic. And claimed it was my fault he had to drink, because I had forced him to stop smoking pot and snorting coke.
After 20 years in an alcoholic marriage, I have pretty much no tolerance for drugs and alcohol. So in that respect, I can relate to your MIL. If my adult kid lived under my roof, I would have a zero-tolerance policy, too. But other than that, what an adult does -- even if it is my kid (I have a grown son), that's his business. Not mine.
It just sounds like you spend an awful lot of time and thought on his drinking or not, his stashing alcohol or not. Whether he can be classified or diagnosed as an alcoholic is less important than the fact that his relationship with alcohol clearly creates problems for you personally, and in your marriage. Have you considered going to a few Al-Anon meetings? It might be helpful for you to find tools for how to think about it all!
What first got my ears to perk up in your post was this:
Should I, too, be telling him he can't drink at all, that he has a "family history" & a personal history that say he shouldn't?
I don't know your situation and shouldn't speak to it -- but I can tell you about mine: I used to be married to a guy who did different drugs AND drank. Of course, I didn't know this, naive as I was. When I found out, I told him the second I found illegal drugs in the house, I would walk, and I would divorce him. He ditched the drugs, and became an alcoholic. And claimed it was my fault he had to drink, because I had forced him to stop smoking pot and snorting coke.
After 20 years in an alcoholic marriage, I have pretty much no tolerance for drugs and alcohol. So in that respect, I can relate to your MIL. If my adult kid lived under my roof, I would have a zero-tolerance policy, too. But other than that, what an adult does -- even if it is my kid (I have a grown son), that's his business. Not mine.
It just sounds like you spend an awful lot of time and thought on his drinking or not, his stashing alcohol or not. Whether he can be classified or diagnosed as an alcoholic is less important than the fact that his relationship with alcohol clearly creates problems for you personally, and in your marriage. Have you considered going to a few Al-Anon meetings? It might be helpful for you to find tools for how to think about it all!
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Fl
Posts: 118
I feel for you and the situation you are in. But regardless of his using how are you doing? It is hard living with an addict but I have been practicing detachment. Which is so hard at times but it helps me. I do go to alanon. I'm not sure what progress is exactly. I know in my home if my husband isn't using he is dry.
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