Why can't A's give straight answers????
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Why can't A's give straight answers????
I have been speaking to my AH today about our relationship & why he was low the life he's living was what he wanted that was why he left right?? And all he. Could say was I don't know I'm still unhappy so tough sh$t on me!! He started talking about us and how I deserve better. I said to him this isn't about me deserving better this is about you rather losing me and ur family rather than giving up drink. He said it's not that I'd rather but I can't cope with the guilt when I fail and I don't know if I want to give up drinking or if I want to try again. I told him it was obvious he wasn't in love with me as he is prepared to lose me. He said I don't know how I feel but how can I be in love with you if I'm putting you through this when I don't want to be at home. I asked him so you don't want to be with me. And he said I don't know I'm f$$ked up. I said to him your right your not in love with me and you don't want me. He then said those are your words and assumptions not mine He said again I don't deserve to be happy and he have brought this all on himself so tough sh$t on him, I don't know if I have the confidence to try and stop drinking again as I have failed before. I told him he hasn't tried before he has given up for a few weeks then talks himself round to being able to manage then it's worse than ever. I explained that that's his alcoholic voice talking and that he is surrounding himself with,people who don't care about him and walked away from the people who truly care about him and love him. I told him I want a divorce as I can't keep my life on hold forever he said I do know I don't want a divorce!!! I mean seriously he doesn't know if he wants to give up drink, if he wants to be with me, if he's in love with me but he knows he doesn't want a divorce??
Why can't they ever give a straight answer to questions?? I still struggle with the whole idea that alcohol has such a powerful hold on him that he would walk out and at times still think it's because he fell out of love with me & doesn't want to be with me even though he told me he did before he left, well you all know what he told me and continued to tell me for awhile after he left. but he won't tell me straight he skirts around it but he knows he doesn't want a divorce. He still wears his wedding ring and says he will never take it off and has asked for all these pictures of us together??
I know today I have been seeking validation from him but when he was answering I didn't fall apart with the exception of a few tears before work I continued on with my day and focused on my work which is progress but I still want to know how he feels and wants. It's as if I need him to tell me straight that he doesn't want me or in love with me before I can move on, almost like I need his permission?? I have been having a bad few days and really miss him and the thought of being without him has me in tears. I've been questioning how he could do this again and I don't know why I'm doing that I've been through that!! I know I'm not back to square one but I have taken a back step!!
I am confused why give vague answers and refuse to answer questions about how he feels and wants yet when I say I want a divorce he says he doesn't want one??
I am worried about him though his depression is bad and with him was saying about still being unhappy even though he's drinking when he wants and doing what he wants. I want to support him but I know I can't for my own sanity he has to want to seek the help and by me being there I'm propping him up. It was hard but I told him that while he is drinking I want nothing to do with him except when it comes to the kids and that if he is ever serious about giving up drink and seeking proper support I will support him through it! I just don't know if I have done the right thing with his depression being so bad I feel that I've walked away from him when he's hurting and that doesn't sit easy with me.
Why can't they ever give a straight answer to questions?? I still struggle with the whole idea that alcohol has such a powerful hold on him that he would walk out and at times still think it's because he fell out of love with me & doesn't want to be with me even though he told me he did before he left, well you all know what he told me and continued to tell me for awhile after he left. but he won't tell me straight he skirts around it but he knows he doesn't want a divorce. He still wears his wedding ring and says he will never take it off and has asked for all these pictures of us together??
I know today I have been seeking validation from him but when he was answering I didn't fall apart with the exception of a few tears before work I continued on with my day and focused on my work which is progress but I still want to know how he feels and wants. It's as if I need him to tell me straight that he doesn't want me or in love with me before I can move on, almost like I need his permission?? I have been having a bad few days and really miss him and the thought of being without him has me in tears. I've been questioning how he could do this again and I don't know why I'm doing that I've been through that!! I know I'm not back to square one but I have taken a back step!!
I am confused why give vague answers and refuse to answer questions about how he feels and wants yet when I say I want a divorce he says he doesn't want one??
I am worried about him though his depression is bad and with him was saying about still being unhappy even though he's drinking when he wants and doing what he wants. I want to support him but I know I can't for my own sanity he has to want to seek the help and by me being there I'm propping him up. It was hard but I told him that while he is drinking I want nothing to do with him except when it comes to the kids and that if he is ever serious about giving up drink and seeking proper support I will support him through it! I just don't know if I have done the right thing with his depression being so bad I feel that I've walked away from him when he's hurting and that doesn't sit easy with me.
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I'm not sure. What I do understand is how can he actually love you in the emotional way you would like if he doesn't love himself? Have you tried alanon? Do you really want to stay with someone when you feel you are settling? For me my AH always says he wants to change when he feels his backs against the wall. Maybe he honestly doesn't know what he wants. What do YOU want?
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I think a divorce is an excellent idea--you shouldn't put your life on hold
and he has chosen to walk away from his family.
Right now it's about him and the drink over everything.
If he does decide to take steps and stop drinking, you can always remarry
down the road if you feel strongly about him and the relationship still.
Why should you be in limbo for years while he "thinks about it"?
You deserve better Butterfly
and he has chosen to walk away from his family.
Right now it's about him and the drink over everything.
If he does decide to take steps and stop drinking, you can always remarry
down the road if you feel strongly about him and the relationship still.
Why should you be in limbo for years while he "thinks about it"?
You deserve better Butterfly
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Like alcoholics, we codependents suffer from denial and rationalization, which can keep us in pointless relationships much longer than we should be. I suggest Alanon, which saved my sanity and pointed the way to clear thinking and accepting that I am powerless over other people.
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And, how was that merry-go-round ride?????? How many times have you had this conversation with him since he left? My head was spinning reading it, because I've btdt. You start to think that you have more knowledge, you finally found a different way of saying things that he might understand, but it just doesn't work. You start to feel like you are talking to a brick wall !!!!!!
So after a conversation like this, I would go back and try to think of a different way to say things, something that would penetrate, and that he would just have to give me an answer to that, I would still wind up with the same conversation, it would just go round and round.
I started to think that maybe if I just recorded the conversation, that I wouldn't have to waste my time and breath, trying to explain again, or to get some validation, or support, or any answers from him.
Has he ever been diagnosed with clinical depression? Or is this an excuse that you want to give him?
If he indeed is "depressed" he may not have the answers you are looking for, but they answer to this would be that he would need to stop drinking, look at his depression and get treated for that. He doesn't seem like he is willing to do this.
I know what "limbo" is, I spent many years stuck there.
(((((((hugs))))))))
So after a conversation like this, I would go back and try to think of a different way to say things, something that would penetrate, and that he would just have to give me an answer to that, I would still wind up with the same conversation, it would just go round and round.
I started to think that maybe if I just recorded the conversation, that I wouldn't have to waste my time and breath, trying to explain again, or to get some validation, or support, or any answers from him.
Has he ever been diagnosed with clinical depression? Or is this an excuse that you want to give him?
If he indeed is "depressed" he may not have the answers you are looking for, but they answer to this would be that he would need to stop drinking, look at his depression and get treated for that. He doesn't seem like he is willing to do this.
I know what "limbo" is, I spent many years stuck there.
(((((((hugs))))))))
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Heartbrokenk iam no longer with him he walked out so he could drink but it's getting my head around everything.
Yes I've had this conversation many times with him amy and I get the same answers from him I just keep hoping that he will have answers and tell me he will seek help for his addiction because he doesn't want to lose me but he never does. He is depressed his gp has him on anti depressants but drinking to the level he is drinking will not help his depression.
Hawkeye I think I am scared to apply for a divorce maybe I'm not ready to actually take that next step
Yes I've had this conversation many times with him amy and I get the same answers from him I just keep hoping that he will have answers and tell me he will seek help for his addiction because he doesn't want to lose me but he never does. He is depressed his gp has him on anti depressants but drinking to the level he is drinking will not help his depression.
Hawkeye I think I am scared to apply for a divorce maybe I'm not ready to actually take that next step
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Heartbroken yes my A also said he would get help when he had messed up with drink and thought. He would have begged me not to leave him to give him another chance how he couldn't imagine his life without me blah blah then he walks out!!
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Confused....the way I look at it is that alcoholics may well have emotional feelings and feel bonds of connections to their partner.....**BUT**, at some level realize that they are not up to the demands of being a satisfactory partner.
There is fear on the part of the alcoholic...fear that they cannot survive without their old friend--alcohol--to deal with their feelings. Alcohol is like air and water to the alcoholic.
I suspect that he has been drinking most of his life, and alcohol is the only coping mechanism that he knows or trusts.
I have heard many alcoholics say that the guilt that they feel when trying to give up alcohol is daunting and feels overwhelming. Coping with this guilt is often the reason that they are triggered to relapse.
He may be as ignorant of alcoholism and the dynamics as anyone else.
I suspect that he is as conflicted inside as he appears....
I have also heard, over and over, that the alcoholic experiences pleasure from alcohol in the very beginning.....but, over time....the alcoholic drinks in order to feel NORMAL.
It might be possible that if you were to divorce him....that might be a motivation for him to seek treatment.....maybe not.....only he would know that if the time comes. He may feel that not legally divorcing is a way to still drink and "hold on" at the same time. He may also be in denial that it has actually come to this. Alcoholics is a disease of denial.
I wouldn't automatically assume that he is consciously trying to confuse you---cause he doesn't drink AT YOU...he drinks because he is an alcoholic.
He is likely a m an who is caught between the devil and the deep blue sea....by the disease of alcoholism.
The above would be my response to the questions that you ask.
In the end....it really doesn't matter...because you have to decide if you can live with the collateral damage that this disease does to those around the alcoholic.
dandylion
There is fear on the part of the alcoholic...fear that they cannot survive without their old friend--alcohol--to deal with their feelings. Alcohol is like air and water to the alcoholic.
I suspect that he has been drinking most of his life, and alcohol is the only coping mechanism that he knows or trusts.
I have heard many alcoholics say that the guilt that they feel when trying to give up alcohol is daunting and feels overwhelming. Coping with this guilt is often the reason that they are triggered to relapse.
He may be as ignorant of alcoholism and the dynamics as anyone else.
I suspect that he is as conflicted inside as he appears....
I have also heard, over and over, that the alcoholic experiences pleasure from alcohol in the very beginning.....but, over time....the alcoholic drinks in order to feel NORMAL.
It might be possible that if you were to divorce him....that might be a motivation for him to seek treatment.....maybe not.....only he would know that if the time comes. He may feel that not legally divorcing is a way to still drink and "hold on" at the same time. He may also be in denial that it has actually come to this. Alcoholics is a disease of denial.
I wouldn't automatically assume that he is consciously trying to confuse you---cause he doesn't drink AT YOU...he drinks because he is an alcoholic.
He is likely a m an who is caught between the devil and the deep blue sea....by the disease of alcoholism.
The above would be my response to the questions that you ask.
In the end....it really doesn't matter...because you have to decide if you can live with the collateral damage that this disease does to those around the alcoholic.
dandylion
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For my XAH there came a time that I was so grounded in myself that he did not even have the guts to quack at me and tell me he would not drink. Although I wanted him to say it, I knew it would not be true, and he knew I knew. It was like we were both worn out from playing the same BS over and over and over. That was very near the end. I had completely detatched and he could definitely tell.
I wanted so badly for it to be true but knew it would never be. I had to come to a place I was ready to take action, and I had to get there in my own time, that was OK.
Hugs....
I wanted so badly for it to be true but knew it would never be. I had to come to a place I was ready to take action, and I had to get there in my own time, that was OK.
Hugs....
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"I am confused why give vague answers and refuse to answer questions about how he feels and wants yet when I say I want a divorce he says he doesn't want one??"
He does not want a divorce. He wants to have the benefits of marriage and someone to take care of him and fix things and continue to drink. It works for him. It does not work for you. I've been there and so feel your pain.
He does not want a divorce. He wants to have the benefits of marriage and someone to take care of him and fix things and continue to drink. It works for him. It does not work for you. I've been there and so feel your pain.
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Dandylion I didn't even realise you had lol I am so used to seeing confused. What you wrote was very helpful, thank you. I will keep reading over it to make sure it sinks in.
Thank you to everyone who replied and you are all right in what your saying yet I can't take the next step which is divorce! I think in The uk you need to be separated for 2 years before applying for a divorce but I am going to speak to a solicitor on Wednesday and find out more at least if I am armed with all the information then I know what to do when the times comes. I still refer to him as my AH and maybe I should start to refer to him as exAH that may help me to accept our marriage is over if I refer to him as my ex? Or am I fooling myself lol.
I think I need to accept that I am having a difficult time these past few days and that it will pass. I love him and yes I want him to be my future but as dandylion said he can't live up to the demands of being a husband. He told me today he feels he has nothing to offer me unless he gives up drinking. I deserve so much more and I am beginning to understand that yet I still feel tied to him. I am worried that he is spiralling he is drinking more, his daughter wants nothing to do with him anymore, he's isolating himself from his mum who he's living with, he goes to bed after dinner and then spends his weekends with his so called friends who couldn't care less that he walked out on his family so he can drink and his depression is bad and now I'm walking away the only person he could talk to and be himself around. I can't see it getting any better unless he seeks help.
I told him that one day he will realise what he has lost so he can drink and that's not me being big headed about myself but I know now I did everything for him and I was a good wife who loved him and he has 2 wonderful kids that he also walked out on so he could drink!!
Thank you to everyone who replied and you are all right in what your saying yet I can't take the next step which is divorce! I think in The uk you need to be separated for 2 years before applying for a divorce but I am going to speak to a solicitor on Wednesday and find out more at least if I am armed with all the information then I know what to do when the times comes. I still refer to him as my AH and maybe I should start to refer to him as exAH that may help me to accept our marriage is over if I refer to him as my ex? Or am I fooling myself lol.
I think I need to accept that I am having a difficult time these past few days and that it will pass. I love him and yes I want him to be my future but as dandylion said he can't live up to the demands of being a husband. He told me today he feels he has nothing to offer me unless he gives up drinking. I deserve so much more and I am beginning to understand that yet I still feel tied to him. I am worried that he is spiralling he is drinking more, his daughter wants nothing to do with him anymore, he's isolating himself from his mum who he's living with, he goes to bed after dinner and then spends his weekends with his so called friends who couldn't care less that he walked out on his family so he can drink and his depression is bad and now I'm walking away the only person he could talk to and be himself around. I can't see it getting any better unless he seeks help.
I told him that one day he will realise what he has lost so he can drink and that's not me being big headed about myself but I know now I did everything for him and I was a good wife who loved him and he has 2 wonderful kids that he also walked out on so he could drink!!
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You did great holding firm!! Well done.
And...are we married to the same man?
I've had conversations almost word for word identical to yours wi your AH!!!
In MY case I've come to realise that AH actually is being clear in his communication....it's just that im not hearing, or I am hearing but its something I don't like so I 'change' the words meaning in my head, or tell myself he's not being clear enough so I'd better hang in there until he talks with less haziness because wouldn't it be terrible to make a decision I might regret based on words I wasn't quite clear on. Or if none of that works I start twisting his words...and assume that his statements are focused on me and our relationship - when in reality those things are maybe somewhere way down the list....and he's really just talking about himself.
What I 'hear' in what you've written is him saying:
- you deserve better
- you don't deserve this
- I don't know if I want to stop drinking (meaning I don't want to stop)
- this disease IS more powerful than my love for you, and I am choosing it over you
- I am sad
- somewhere inside me I do love you, and because I don't really want to stop drinking, I am pretty sure I am going to fail. Then the feelings of guilt and self loathing with be overwhelming. I don't want those feelings.
- I currently don't have the capability to be any sort of partner...let alone one you deserve. I don't know that I'll ever have that capability.
I mean this as gently as possible...and I could be off track. I'm just sharing that I have similar conversations and I believe that this is what MY H means when he says those things.
But trust me I don't 'hear' them clearly at the time!!!!
And...are we married to the same man?
I've had conversations almost word for word identical to yours wi your AH!!!
In MY case I've come to realise that AH actually is being clear in his communication....it's just that im not hearing, or I am hearing but its something I don't like so I 'change' the words meaning in my head, or tell myself he's not being clear enough so I'd better hang in there until he talks with less haziness because wouldn't it be terrible to make a decision I might regret based on words I wasn't quite clear on. Or if none of that works I start twisting his words...and assume that his statements are focused on me and our relationship - when in reality those things are maybe somewhere way down the list....and he's really just talking about himself.
What I 'hear' in what you've written is him saying:
- you deserve better
- you don't deserve this
- I don't know if I want to stop drinking (meaning I don't want to stop)
- this disease IS more powerful than my love for you, and I am choosing it over you
- I am sad
- somewhere inside me I do love you, and because I don't really want to stop drinking, I am pretty sure I am going to fail. Then the feelings of guilt and self loathing with be overwhelming. I don't want those feelings.
- I currently don't have the capability to be any sort of partner...let alone one you deserve. I don't know that I'll ever have that capability.
I mean this as gently as possible...and I could be off track. I'm just sharing that I have similar conversations and I believe that this is what MY H means when he says those things.
But trust me I don't 'hear' them clearly at the time!!!!
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Butterfly.....as a matter of fact...it might be a good idea to change his "title" also. Words Are powerful. I remember the first time I said "EX", it felt weird..but I got used to it rather quickly.
If you are interested in a more in-depth discussion about how the alcoholic mind works--from a psychological point of view, I highly suggest the following articles. They helped me almost as much as anything that I read.
Web site: bma-wellness.com "Psychiatry and Wellness"
You might like the article: "Excuses Alcoholics Make" also,....."Addictions Lies and Relationships"....there are also several other articles.
They are written by Floyd P. Garrett, M.D.
I will remind you again (LOL)....you still have some adjusting to do....by the next few months you will probably experience a lot more acceptance and detachment than you do now.
dandylion
This does take time.....
If you are interested in a more in-depth discussion about how the alcoholic mind works--from a psychological point of view, I highly suggest the following articles. They helped me almost as much as anything that I read.
Web site: bma-wellness.com "Psychiatry and Wellness"
You might like the article: "Excuses Alcoholics Make" also,....."Addictions Lies and Relationships"....there are also several other articles.
They are written by Floyd P. Garrett, M.D.
I will remind you again (LOL)....you still have some adjusting to do....by the next few months you will probably experience a lot more acceptance and detachment than you do now.
dandylion
This does take time.....
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Jarp I know your right and I have thought the same things every time he says these things but because he just won't come out and say I don't want to be with you and I'm not in love with you anymore and says things like I'm confused I don't know I think he just needs time to figure things out. I am very black & white and appreciate people being straight with me and if they don't I get confused and try to read between the lines based on my own negative thinking. However I think I know exactly what he is saying even though he won't admit it and I think the reason he doesn't want a divorce is that if he's still married to me he can come back when he's had enough and wants to be looked after. Historically I have always been there for him. Either that or he doesn't want to admit that his drinking has ended our marriage in divorce!!!!
Dandylion as always you are right lol I will read those articles as the psychology behind it I do find helpful so thank you.
From here on in he is now my exAH and yes it does sound strange and that's just saying it in my head and not out loud. Il maybe practise saying it out loud in the car on the way to work in the morning. I still can't take my wedding rings off they are so much a part of me but also if I take them off people in work might see and ask what's happened and I don't know what to tell people, only a few close friends know. Guess the rings will come with time.
Dandylion as always you are right lol I will read those articles as the psychology behind it I do find helpful so thank you.
From here on in he is now my exAH and yes it does sound strange and that's just saying it in my head and not out loud. Il maybe practise saying it out loud in the car on the way to work in the morning. I still can't take my wedding rings off they are so much a part of me but also if I take them off people in work might see and ask what's happened and I don't know what to tell people, only a few close friends know. Guess the rings will come with time.
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Butterfly I am similar to you...I also need that black and white statement.....but in reality I think that for me, even if I heard those words I'd end up rationalising them!!!
Also I am starting to think that maybe I need to accept that some people, alcoholic or not, are never going to communicate in the way that I would prefer them to. Some people are very clear and logical, others are not.
I'm in HR and have had to sit through many, many performance and disciplinary discussions, termination meetings, redundancies etc, and I am amazed that the number of senior managers who communicate with such fluff!! There's a term we use call the 'sh*t sandwich'. You know couch the 'bad' message in between two nice messages to soften the blow. It's just that some people soften so much the message in the middle gets lost!! And I'm sure those managers aren't all alcoholics LOL! Maybe that is our AH's preferred style anyway.
Perhaps he can't say he doesn't love you because somewhere he does...but that doesn't mean you 'should' be with him.
Funny how its so easy to dole out the advice haha, not so easy to see it and practise your own advice! ARGH.
Also I am starting to think that maybe I need to accept that some people, alcoholic or not, are never going to communicate in the way that I would prefer them to. Some people are very clear and logical, others are not.
I'm in HR and have had to sit through many, many performance and disciplinary discussions, termination meetings, redundancies etc, and I am amazed that the number of senior managers who communicate with such fluff!! There's a term we use call the 'sh*t sandwich'. You know couch the 'bad' message in between two nice messages to soften the blow. It's just that some people soften so much the message in the middle gets lost!! And I'm sure those managers aren't all alcoholics LOL! Maybe that is our AH's preferred style anyway.
Perhaps he can't say he doesn't love you because somewhere he does...but that doesn't mean you 'should' be with him.
Funny how its so easy to dole out the advice haha, not so easy to see it and practise your own advice! ARGH.
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Originally Posted by dandylion 
Web site: bma-wellness.com "Psychiatry and Wellness"
You might like the article: "Excuses Alcoholics Make" also,....."Addictions Lies and Relationships"....there are also several other articles.
They are written by Floyd P. Garrett, M.D.
dandylion
This does take time.....
Just wanted to shout out a thanks for these articles...particularly the first.
It still amazes me that there are such consistencies in the behaviours of alcoholics. I think I have heard every statement In that article. Except for "never again"!!
Butterfly if you haven't already I'll second reading these articles.....the give some clarity to the non black and white statements of our AH's!!!
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Originally Posted by Butterfly
yet I can't take the next step which is divorce!
Sometimes things happen which remove the requirement to make a decision from us (i.e. the partner files for divorce first, or HP forbid, dies), and we then have to deal with that scenario. But otherwise, we can take the time we need to look at or for other options, or even just wait until we're ready to take whatever we feel is the next step.
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Butterfly, I think many go through this with alcoholic partners. For right now I have been able to ask my AH to leave but have not done more. He says the same as your AH- loves us, does not want to lose his family, etc. Still unable to stop drinking.
Maybe you should not put pressure on yourself to do more than the first step. If you know you can't live with his drinking then you ask him to leave and start to rebuild your life. I wouldn't file for divorce or escalate things to get him to realize how much he loves you and stop drinking. I'm not sure if some alcoholics can ever stop drinking no matter how much they love someone.
I've had many conversations with my AH like you described above. Even when he has promised the moon & stars his actions didn't follow so I would go from elated to devastated. For mr it was my part of the "dance".
Maybe think about that- if right now he promised to stop drinking forever & ever because he loves you SO MUCH, would it really change anything? You'd be really hopeful but still have to wait and see if his actions followed.
You can get on with building your life and if it turns out he stops drinking you can work on your relationship from a much healthier place. ((((hugs)))))
Maybe you should not put pressure on yourself to do more than the first step. If you know you can't live with his drinking then you ask him to leave and start to rebuild your life. I wouldn't file for divorce or escalate things to get him to realize how much he loves you and stop drinking. I'm not sure if some alcoholics can ever stop drinking no matter how much they love someone.
I've had many conversations with my AH like you described above. Even when he has promised the moon & stars his actions didn't follow so I would go from elated to devastated. For mr it was my part of the "dance".
Maybe think about that- if right now he promised to stop drinking forever & ever because he loves you SO MUCH, would it really change anything? You'd be really hopeful but still have to wait and see if his actions followed.
You can get on with building your life and if it turns out he stops drinking you can work on your relationship from a much healthier place. ((((hugs)))))
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