TonightTonight

Hi all, my first thread in a while so I'm nervous!

I have been so angry and frustrated lately. No matter how many al anon meetings I attend, I can't stop thinking about how distant my AH is - he goes to work, comes home smelling as if he's already had something to drink, sits on his laptop in the other room and drinks while I make dinner, where he drinks some more (the drinking in front of me is somewhat new - he's been hiding it for a long time, then will start in front of me again, then go back to hiding etc.).

There's no touching me, hugging me, kissing, nothing. Not much talking unless he's drinking. I feel like I'm not even here to him. Even when I kiss him goodbye in the morning or hello in the evening, I go to him - he doesn't come to me. He stands there waiting for it. Needless to say he doesn't initiate sex - that's also up to me.

My husband is successful and attractive and takes care of himself for the most part. Even though if I initiate, he responds (I know he isn't "unattracted" to me) I'm feeling like it's me :/ It's getting to the point that being around him makes me want to lose it.

NWGRITS

Welcome to marriage with an alcoholic. What you're experiencing is normal, but it's not your fault. I'm sure someone with more to offer will come along shortly. (((Hugs)))

snickerdoodle82

I'm sorry your are going through that, Tonight. I can only offer hugs and well wishes.

lillamy

That sounds difficult and like it would hurt an awful lot. All that giving, all that trying, and not getting anything back.

This is not a rude or snarky question, but something that you could choose to think about if you wanted: How long do you want to live like this? If you knew today that chances are that this is as good as it's ever going to get -- what would you do?

Big hugs. It's a horrible feeling to be lonelier with someone than to actually be alone.

dandylion

TonightTonight---It is an absolutely awful feeling to be married----and yet feel alone. I have been there!

Were you expecting alanon to help you be O.k. with feeling alone and lonely?

I don't think that learning to accept the unacceptable is the purpose of alanon.

What do you want and need for you to be happy and thrive--not just exist or tolerate?
I doubt that you will be able to stuff your feelings of hurt and sadness forever---because doing so is very detremental to your own mental and physical health. No wonder you feel like you are going to lose it when you are around him.

dandylion

TonightTonight

Thanks lillamy. Yes I am the more demonstrative one, but now it just feels desperate of me to keep reaching out. He wasn't always so completely unaffectionate.

How long do I want to live like this? I can barely take it anymore :/ That's a great way to put it. If this is as good as it will ever be going forward, ugh. I just can't imagine.

ladyscribbler

This is your life.
Good call on the Alanon meetings. I'm one of the #1 cheerleaders here, recommending Alanon meetings, but it is not a magic wand to fix a broken relationship.
What do YOU want? Besides a sober husband.
This is your life. Take care of yourself.

TonightTonight

Glad to know I am not crazy or imagining this, that others have been there too. Thanks Dandylion...I don't mean to sound naive, but I did kind of think al anon would help. The socializing and the support are nice. There are readings in Courage to Change that say that we can't rely on any one person to meet all our needs, and readings that suggest we aren't really ever lonely (if I'm remembering correctly, I don't have my book right with me).

This may sound kind of crazy, but I guess I never realized this kind of thing was one of the "unacceptable" issues. When I think of unacceptable behavior I tend to think of violence, verbal abuse etc. I try to remember QTIP (quit taking it personally), that he is miserable and usually doesn't have a positive thing to say about most things. But like you said I can't keep stuffing this down forever, and I'm starting to develop a complex that I'm either uninteresting to him (we've grown apart, been together so long etc.) or he has "other" addictions/infidelity is present.

There has been plenty to say "enough!" over, but this hurts so much more for some reason. I read here about a lot of alcoholics who, when drinking, want sex and the non-alcoholic partner is tired of turning them down and putting up with sloppy come-one, groping etc. That is so not my experience! So I just wonder how he's getting by - he's a man after all? (And I'm a woman after all, with needs too!).

TonightTonight

Hmm. I'd like to feel important, wanted, precious, special. I want love, affection, intimacy, trust, equality, respect, admiration - is that too much to ask?

You're right, al anon isn't a magic wand. I keep forgetting it's for me, to help me take care of me, whatever that may mean, and not the thing that will fix us.

ladyscribbler

Everyone's experience is different. I read here about alcoholics taking desperate measures to keep their partners and going nuts when they leave and I feel a tiny bit jealous. Mine definitely went with a whimper and not a bang. All he wants is booze and the freedom to consume it. After the insane amount of violence I put up with in the relationship it almost feels like an insult.
This is a disease. Some people die of cancer, others go into remission and live for decades. There is no rhyme or reason to it. I used to get totally grossed out by my ex's sexual advances, he would rage at me and say awful things when I turned him down. "Nobody want to f-(& your flapping loose *****, you chubby nasty ****." Then he couldn't live without me, would die if I left him.
I left him. He lived. Moved in with his uncle's widow. He called me chubby. She is morbidly obese. I don't say that to be mean. It is a medical fact. She has four kids, I have two, if you want to talk about flapping loose *****. So there is not rhyme or reason to it. It is a mental illness.

Rosalba

'I want love, affection, intimacy, trust, equality, respect, admiration - is that too much to ask?' - all things which could be asked of a healthy partner, with some expectation of getting them.

But, yes, this is too much to ask of an alcoholic. An alcoholic's first love is the alcohol, period.

With my ex-partner, I'd get yelled at if I reached out and touched him in my sleep if it woke him up. He'd talk about a previous partner where he'd intentionally "Get really drunk to avoid having sex".

We split up over 2.5 years ago, I started seeing someone else towards the end of last year but realised very quickly that the guy was still far too involved in his ex-partner's life to be available to anyone else, so I graciously parted company with him. My experience in Alanon is that I've found it much easier to look at relationships realistically, and let them go if they clearly aren't going anywhere without wanting to give it another try, or force solutions.

honeypig

TT, both parts of this post are important. I'll echo Rosalba in saying that it's NOT too much to ask to want to feel special and wanted. It's certainly reasonable to expect love, trust, respect, etc., in your marriage. While those things are not too much to ask, they are certainly too much to ask of an active A. He can no more give you those things than the hardware store can sell you bread (you've heard the phrase "like going to the hardware store for bread" at Alanon, I'm imagining.). His addiction takes first place, and that is the fact of the matter, however much you may hope for it to be different. I know there was a thread here some time ago about wanting those who hurt us to be the ones who heal us, and what a vain wish that was. A search might turn that up for you.

As to the second part, yes, absolutely Alanon is for you, and not a way to fix the A or your marriage or anything else (or at least not directly). As another poster said, it's not a way for you to learn to accept the unacceptable. It's a way for you to learn to put yourself first, to take care of yourself, and to find a path to the life you want, regardless of what the A is or is not doing, regardless of whether you stay w/him or not.

I've seen some meetings where staying w/the A seems to be emphasized above other outcomes. If this has been the situation for you, perhaps check some other meetings to see if you can find one where the focus is more on finding your individual path, whatever that may turn out to be. And please, keep reading here. There is so much good information and inspiration! You are not bound to stay in a miserable, lonely marriage w/an A who has no desire to stop drinking. You only get one life, and YOU get to decide how it's lived.

Wishing you strength and clarity.

dandylion

TonightTonight.....always remember that You have value. Your thoughts and feelings are important. You matter.
It can be easy to sacrifice so much to preserve a relationship that one can lose site of this
important fact. If you lose yourself..nothing else will ever satisfy you.

dandylion

redatlanta

I would say most people would say that their sex lives dissipate with an A. I have seen some say it hasn't been affected but that is few and far between.

Trust me, its not you. Some men have issues with sex when drinking and while it sounds like your AH doesn't it certainly might take more effort for him than if he was sober.

There could be some other issues behind it as well that don't have anything to do with alcohol. Its a fallacy to think that "he's a man after all, how is he getting by"? is applicable throughout life. Ever noticed how many commercials there are on TV for testosterone? Men have hormonal changes just like us gals. Lose testosterone and you lose sex drive, not necessarily ability to perform.

Your husband probably needs to go and get a physical if your sex life has changed drastically. I do not know if that is the issue - it could just be the alcohol.

Have you discussed the drinking with you AH and how it is affecting your marriage?

TonightTonight

Thank you all so much for your thoughtful responses. I can't tell you how much better I feel just knowing I'm not alone.

Ouch, and thank you. It doesn't help that my AH is a tad self-involved and selfish. I think oh, maybe the lack of affection isn't part of the drinking, because he's only had *this much*. And I guess it's been difficult to look at our relationship realistically because I don't really know what's the cause of certain issues (I've posted here asking before about the A's controlling access to the finances, etc.). Some may say it doesn't matter, but I think it's fair to understand how the disease affects us and in what ways. When I first got into Al Anon, and even now, I had a hard time expressing myself as to why I was there, how the drinking affected me.

ladyscribber - Your post. Wow. Wow was all I could think. And also - I'm so sorry you had those horrible things said to you! And done to you. What you said about feeling jealous, that it feels like an insult after everything else you've put up with, I share that as well. Insult to injury. Also, any niceties shown towards anyone else - friends, family - or loving on our pets, I'm just so jealous.

TonightTonight

Thank you honeypig! Going to the hardware store for bread - yes! That's it. And I stand there kicking my feet wanting bread, dammit. "Wanting those who hurt us to be the ones who heal us." Wow. Yes, that is how I feel. As if no one else can really right the wrongs or heal the hurt he has inflicted. But you know, I'm not even sure he can? It would be different if I felt more validated, if he seemed more remorseful. Who knows. Not really familiar with that experience.

Hmm. Because of my schedule, I think a lot of the meetings I attend are mostly frequented by retired older women who stayed with their husbands. It could be that it was that these women were just in vogue with the times, when divorce wasn't really an option (or at least an attractive/convenient one) for women, it could be that they thought saving their marriage was the most important thing. But I have had older women tell me that no, I don't deserve this, I'm young, I'm pretty etc. There are a few members from who I've felt pressure to stay, whether for religious reasons, or that if I work my program I can have compassion and love for him regardless, that I can be happy whether he's drinking or not, as they say.

Which I can completely see. But as you put it so wonderfully, it really is about finding my individual path, taking care of ME and finding out who I am, even. What I want, what I don't want.

At this point AH's drinking is of little consequence to him and no, he has no desire to stop drinking that I know of. Though he's had job changes they were his decision to leave (unless I don't know the whole story) and find new employment. He makes good money. He's just pretty miserable, anxious, negative...it's sad.

SO, long post short, thank you for reminding me that it really is up to me to keep on keepin' on and focus on myself.

hopeful4

Hello and welcome!

You have gotten good feedback so far. After reading your post, my question for you to ask yourself is what are you getting out of this relationship?

TonightTonight

Oh dandylion, your words really comforted me, thank you. The times I've tried to stand up for my feelings and for myself, well it didn't go too well and I was a doormat quick. As a result I don't respect the choices I've made, though I can't beat myself up for them, and I have lost myself in so many ways. My voice, my thoughts (forming them! expressing them). I'm going to write that down and keep it close to me: "If you lose yourself...nothing else will ever satisfy you."

Redatlanta - Hmm, you're definitely right, and I forget that we're not in our early 20's anymore. AH calls himself "middle aged" though he's 34. And I spoke to a friend the other day who thinks my feelings and my AH's lack of affection sounded so familiar to her situation with her alcoholic/gamblaholic/sex addict husband that she kept suggesting it may not just be alcoholism, that there could be other stuff going on. She could just be projecting, but she just felt so strongly that it had me scared and worried that oh, that's what it is - he's been cheating on me with prostitutes or girlfriends! Mystery solved. I can't be 100% this isn't also going on (he goes to work, comes home, doesn't "work late", has no friends where we live, but he travels for work), but it's at least comforting to know though experiences differ it is common with alcoholism.

Yes, I've discussed his drinking with him and how I feel it's affected our marriage. This never goes over very well. He has vacillated between admitting he has a problem and he doesn't care, to saying he researched it and came to the conclusion that he isn't an alcoholic, to outright saying he doesn't have a problem - it's my problem, and if I don't like it I can leave. The last time I brought up his drinking he snapped into a crazy person and eventually left the house. It's hard to have a conversation with him about his drinking because he is great at denying any of its consequences - to him, he has "always been this way." But I see the changes that have progressed as time has gone on.

So. I feel like I have a decision to make. I think about it everyday, try not to so I don't feel more insane/tired/frustrated/etc. But I do

TonightTonight

.........This is a good question. First, I had no answer. Then, I started to remember how it "used to be", good memories from the past. His support, encouragement, the romantic fun times. But now, so many years later...I don't know Right now, so much of why I am here still seems to be about our story, how long we've been together. Yes, relationships end - to me, that always meant *other* people's relationships. Not ours - nope!

This needs to be given more thought, because the only thing I can say is that though I'm sad and know this isn't a healthy relationship, it's what I know, and he is what I know. No other relationships for me or him really, and we've been together for so long. Before I grew to be incredibly angry and hurt, I could say that one of the payoffs was that he let me love him and, I hate to say it, "take care" of him. I'm a caretaker for sure. But I don't do a lot of those things anymore, other than cook our meals, because it feels degrading at this point.

Thank you for asking me this. It made me cringe a little but I need to think about it.

DesertEyes

Hello TT. I am sorry that you are going thru this hardship.

As a guy I can tell you that it feels exaclty the same. My XAW did exactly the things you mentioned, and I felt pretty much the way you described your own feelings. For me it wasn't just the hurt, the jealousy, the rejection. I felt used, discarded and betrayed.

I did my very best for that marriage. That she would simply allow it to wither and die without even saying "I'm sorry" is what affected me the most.

That was my experience too, with my first few meetings. They taught me all kinds of wonderful new skills and gave me a new awareness, but I lacked the "connection" with other people in my same circumstances. As others have suggested, I shopped around for other meetings.

When I found a meeting with several young guys like me (ok, so I'm nowhere near as young as you, but I'm young enough for _me_ ) who were in almost identical situations, I finally felt, in my heart, that there was hope for me. If these guys could recover from the trainwreck of their marriage and build a new life for themselves then I could too.

That is exactly what I had to do. Somewhere in the darkness of her addiction I lost track of _me_ and where I fit with this huge, crazy world. We had stopped being "us against the world" and became "save yourself"... except I never got the memo.

I hope we can help you find your answers for your own life. SR helped me find mine and gave me a wonderful life I had never even imagined.

Mike