Be strong Jarp. Don't waver.
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 537
Be strong Jarp. Don't waver.
AH sent me a message today apologising from the bottom of his heart, saying he could scarcely get his head around what he's put me through, that its horrifying. That HE doesn't think HE can ever see past it or get over what he has done.
And....please can he come home?
He then rang....and oh boy he was saying all the right things. He was sobbing his sorrow, his apology, his pain. He can't believe what he's done to himself and others. And please, please can he come home....
My heart was thumping out of my head and I really struggled. Really struggled.
I started talking about the conditions around his return....without laying the exact path. But it involves sobriety AND recovery. For all of us.
Yes, yes he says...he can't bear this pain anymore.
I felt this glimmer of hope.
Then he starts talking about how what REALLY kills him is his younger brother, and how much the brother has hurt HIM ( about 2 years ago younger brother said he was done with him, and that if AH didn't get his sh*t together then he'd be 'kicked out of' the family).
And how no one understands AH, no one has ever accepted him for who he is....except his Dad. That stopped me cold. a) he is still actually in total victim mode, b) his dad is an alcoholic who is in the biggest box of denial ever and c) is part of the problem.
I didn't except a miracle...but the apology whilst I believe in part was real (like a corner crumb of the cake) the main dessert what just a big quack....manipulation, self pity. He was telling me what he knew I wanted to hear... But he couldn't even keep it up for one conversation.
I reiterated the conditions (treatment, commitment, sobriety and recovery for 12 months - for both of us), stated that I loved him, I believed in him, and would commit to keeping my side of the street as clean as I could, that I would try as hard as I am able to.
He said he needed to 'think about it', and hung up on me.
Glad I stayed firm...but I won't lie.....it was hard, really hard. I've never had an apology like that from him before.
THANK YOU for continuing to listen to me....it's really helping writing out my thoughts and feelings. And of course the shared experiences and advice are invaluable.
And....please can he come home?
He then rang....and oh boy he was saying all the right things. He was sobbing his sorrow, his apology, his pain. He can't believe what he's done to himself and others. And please, please can he come home....
My heart was thumping out of my head and I really struggled. Really struggled.
I started talking about the conditions around his return....without laying the exact path. But it involves sobriety AND recovery. For all of us.
Yes, yes he says...he can't bear this pain anymore.
I felt this glimmer of hope.
Then he starts talking about how what REALLY kills him is his younger brother, and how much the brother has hurt HIM ( about 2 years ago younger brother said he was done with him, and that if AH didn't get his sh*t together then he'd be 'kicked out of' the family).
And how no one understands AH, no one has ever accepted him for who he is....except his Dad. That stopped me cold. a) he is still actually in total victim mode, b) his dad is an alcoholic who is in the biggest box of denial ever and c) is part of the problem.
I didn't except a miracle...but the apology whilst I believe in part was real (like a corner crumb of the cake) the main dessert what just a big quack....manipulation, self pity. He was telling me what he knew I wanted to hear... But he couldn't even keep it up for one conversation.
I reiterated the conditions (treatment, commitment, sobriety and recovery for 12 months - for both of us), stated that I loved him, I believed in him, and would commit to keeping my side of the street as clean as I could, that I would try as hard as I am able to.
He said he needed to 'think about it', and hung up on me.
Glad I stayed firm...but I won't lie.....it was hard, really hard. I've never had an apology like that from him before.
THANK YOU for continuing to listen to me....it's really helping writing out my thoughts and feelings. And of course the shared experiences and advice are invaluable.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
You are fighting a hard fight right now, because you're fighting it against a part of yourself that just wants everything to be normal. You so want to believe that it would be. But you know better.
Stay strong is right. (((hugs)))
Stay strong is right. (((hugs)))
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,927
Originally Posted by jarp 
AH sent me a message today apologising from the bottom of his heart, saying he could scarcely get his head around what he's put me through, that its horrifying. That HE doesn't think HE can ever see past it or get over what he has done.
And....please can he come home?
He then rang....and oh boy he was saying all the right things. He was sobbing his sorrow, his apology, his pain. He can't believe what he's done to himself and others. And please, please can he come home....
My heart was thumping out of my head and I really struggled. Really struggled.
I started talking about the conditions around his return....without laying the exact path. But it involves sobriety AND recovery. For all of us.
Yes, yes he says...he can't bear this pain anymore.
I felt this glimmer of hope.
Then he starts talking about how what REALLY kills him is his younger brother, and how much the brother has hurt HIM ( about 2 years ago younger brother said he was done with him, and that if AH didn't get his sh*t together then he'd be 'kicked out of' the family).
And how no one understands AH, no one has ever accepted him for who he is....except his Dad. That stopped me cold. a) he is still actually in total victim mode, b) his dad is an alcoholic who is in the biggest box of denial ever and c) is part of the problem.
I didn't except a miracle...but the apology whilst I believe in part was real (like a corner crumb of the cake) the main dessert what just a big quack....manipulation, self pity. He was telling me what he knew I wanted to hear... But he couldn't even keep it up for one conversation.
And....please can he come home?
He then rang....and oh boy he was saying all the right things. He was sobbing his sorrow, his apology, his pain. He can't believe what he's done to himself and others. And please, please can he come home....
My heart was thumping out of my head and I really struggled. Really struggled.
I started talking about the conditions around his return....without laying the exact path. But it involves sobriety AND recovery. For all of us.
Yes, yes he says...he can't bear this pain anymore.
I felt this glimmer of hope.
Then he starts talking about how what REALLY kills him is his younger brother, and how much the brother has hurt HIM ( about 2 years ago younger brother said he was done with him, and that if AH didn't get his sh*t together then he'd be 'kicked out of' the family).
And how no one understands AH, no one has ever accepted him for who he is....except his Dad. That stopped me cold. a) he is still actually in total victim mode, b) his dad is an alcoholic who is in the biggest box of denial ever and c) is part of the problem.
I didn't except a miracle...but the apology whilst I believe in part was real (like a corner crumb of the cake) the main dessert what just a big quack....manipulation, self pity. He was telling me what he knew I wanted to hear... But he couldn't even keep it up for one conversation.
Im just relating this to discussions with my own husband when he was still using, and even in early recovery... through the point of when we spent lots of time in marriage counseling. My husband would say things like he felt I abandoned him (when we were separated, but all I wanted was for him to straighten up) but to him it felt like abandonment. It would never call it quacking... but that's just me. When we worked through this in therapy what I learned was I had to pay attention to his feelings, and even if they made no sense to me= they were real to him (at point in time) and needed to be acknowledged.
Just something to think about as you communicate with your husband. It took me a while to learn this but it was very beneficial for our relationship. I do hope all of this encourages him to enter treatment, and will lead to overall healing for your family.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
jarp, I think you handled this well. His emotions may indeed have been real, but that's not something YOU need to deal with. That's on HIS side of the street.
It sounds like you had a real struggle. Your conditions of sobriety, etc., all sound quite reasonable to me and I'm glad you stuck to your guns. His response of "I'll think about it" and hanging up on you says more (at least to me) than any of his other words, and I do agree w/you, he's still in victim mode.
Hang in there, and keep on finding your way one step at a time!
It sounds like you had a real struggle. Your conditions of sobriety, etc., all sound quite reasonable to me and I'm glad you stuck to your guns. His response of "I'll think about it" and hanging up on you says more (at least to me) than any of his other words, and I do agree w/you, he's still in victim mode.
Hang in there, and keep on finding your way one step at a time!
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
He's going to continue to up the ante until it becomes too much work (active A's hate work- it interferes with their drinking). If he starts putting some real action behind those words, then maybe he's genuine. Until then, consider it quacking.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
jarp---Good for you. It was an acid test!!!!!!! You did a yeoman's job.
Sometimes, the right thing is the hardest thing.
I have heard from The AA side of things....that realizing the pain that they have done to others is excrutiating. Thank God that they are in AA when they get this realization because they can then work through the guilt and take responsibility with the support of others who understand.
That is on his side of the street.
dandylion
Sometimes, the right thing is the hardest thing.
I have heard from The AA side of things....that realizing the pain that they have done to others is excrutiating. Thank God that they are in AA when they get this realization because they can then work through the guilt and take responsibility with the support of others who understand.
That is on his side of the street.
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by allforcnm
I don't know if this will help you at all Jarp.... but I don't really hear quacking by your husband as he puts forth his feelings.. he probably does have these things weighing him down.. an alcoholic parent, a brother who has cut him out of his life... those are real emotions. In a way they sound like underlying causes of his drinking... I think its good he voices these things, and hopefully in therapy he will work through them.
Jarp, stay strong. Wait for some actions before you believe the words.
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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Originally Posted by jarp
AH sent me a message today apologising from the bottom of his heart, saying he could scarcely get his head around what he's put me through, that its horrifying. That HE doesn't think HE can ever see past it or get over what he has done.
And....please can he come home?
He then rang....and oh boy he was saying all the right things. He was sobbing his sorrow, his apology, his pain. He can't believe what he's done to himself and others. And please, please can he come home....
My heart was thumping out of my head and I really struggled. Really struggled.
I started talking about the conditions around his return....without laying the exact path. But it involves sobriety AND recovery. For all of us.
Yes, yes he says...he can't bear this pain anymore.
I felt this glimmer of hope.
Then he starts talking about how what REALLY kills him is his younger brother, and how much the brother has hurt HIM ( about 2 years ago younger brother said he was done with him, and that if AH didn't get his sh*t together then he'd be 'kicked out of' the family).
And how no one understands AH, no one has ever accepted him for who he is....except his Dad. That stopped me cold. a) he is still actually in total victim mode, b) his dad is an alcoholic who is in the biggest box of denial ever and c) is part of the problem.
I didn't except a miracle...but the apology whilst I believe in part was real (like a corner crumb of the cake) the main dessert what just a big quack....manipulation, self pity. He was telling me what he knew I wanted to hear... But he couldn't even keep it up for one conversation.
I reiterated the conditions (treatment, commitment, sobriety and recovery for 12 months - for both of us), stated that I loved him, I believed in him, and would commit to keeping my side of the street as clean as I could, that I would try as hard as I am able to.
He said he needed to 'think about it', and hung up on me.
Glad I stayed firm...but I won't lie.....it was hard, really hard. I've never had an apology like that from him before.
THANK YOU for continuing to listen to me....it's really helping writing out my thoughts and feelings. And of course the shared experiences and advice are invaluable.
And....please can he come home?
He then rang....and oh boy he was saying all the right things. He was sobbing his sorrow, his apology, his pain. He can't believe what he's done to himself and others. And please, please can he come home....
My heart was thumping out of my head and I really struggled. Really struggled.
I started talking about the conditions around his return....without laying the exact path. But it involves sobriety AND recovery. For all of us.
Yes, yes he says...he can't bear this pain anymore.
I felt this glimmer of hope.
Then he starts talking about how what REALLY kills him is his younger brother, and how much the brother has hurt HIM ( about 2 years ago younger brother said he was done with him, and that if AH didn't get his sh*t together then he'd be 'kicked out of' the family).
And how no one understands AH, no one has ever accepted him for who he is....except his Dad. That stopped me cold. a) he is still actually in total victim mode, b) his dad is an alcoholic who is in the biggest box of denial ever and c) is part of the problem.
I didn't except a miracle...but the apology whilst I believe in part was real (like a corner crumb of the cake) the main dessert what just a big quack....manipulation, self pity. He was telling me what he knew I wanted to hear... But he couldn't even keep it up for one conversation.
I reiterated the conditions (treatment, commitment, sobriety and recovery for 12 months - for both of us), stated that I loved him, I believed in him, and would commit to keeping my side of the street as clean as I could, that I would try as hard as I am able to.
He said he needed to 'think about it', and hung up on me.
Glad I stayed firm...but I won't lie.....it was hard, really hard. I've never had an apology like that from him before.
THANK YOU for continuing to listen to me....it's really helping writing out my thoughts and feelings. And of course the shared experiences and advice are invaluable.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
Wow, if that wasn't another poor me, poor me, pour me another drink apology, I don't know what would be then.
As soon as you told him what you wanted so that you could feel ok, he hung up the phone.
((((((((((hugs))))))))))
As soon as you told him what you wanted so that you could feel ok, he hung up the phone.
((((((((((hugs))))))))))
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
I personally think it's total Quacking until there are actual Changes..... finding a counselor, attending meetings, admitting your addiction EXISTS.... anything. Quacking when you continue to rotate through a list of external forces to blame for your drinking habits (brother, father, economy, Y2K) without ever acknowledging that YOU YOURSELF make the conscious decision to take that drink, no one is funneling it down your neck for you.
He'll think about it. QUACK.
I reiterated the conditions (treatment, commitment, sobriety and recovery for 12 months - for both of us), stated that I loved him, I believed in him, and would commit to keeping my side of the street as clean as I could, that I would try as hard as I am able to.
He said he needed to 'think about it', and hung up on me.
He said he needed to 'think about it', and hung up on me.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 413
"but I don't really hear quacking by your husband as he puts forth his feelings.. he probably does have these things weighing him down.. an alcoholic parent, a brother who has cut him out of his life... those are real emotions. In a way they sound like underlying causes of his drinking... "
His brother cut him out of his life BECAUSE of his drinking. If the husband is now saying that he drinks because his brother cut him out, he is still in excuse mode and not owning up to his own behavior.
Jarp, he's not ready to stop drinking. You can keep working on him if you choose, but the nonsense is going to continue, and if he doesn't seek recovery it will become worse, much worse.
The fact that losing his brother didn't wake him up shows that he probably won't come out of this even if he loses you. Some here may say that you need to stay with him and help him at all costs, but there really isn't any rule that you need to do that. You could spend years trying to "reinforce positive behaviors." If anything, you have more of a moral obligation to protect your kids than you do to try to fix your husband.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
His brother cut him out of his life BECAUSE of his drinking. If the husband is now saying that he drinks because his brother cut him out, he is still in excuse mode and not owning up to his own behavior.
Jarp, he's not ready to stop drinking. You can keep working on him if you choose, but the nonsense is going to continue, and if he doesn't seek recovery it will become worse, much worse.
The fact that losing his brother didn't wake him up shows that he probably won't come out of this even if he loses you. Some here may say that you need to stay with him and help him at all costs, but there really isn't any rule that you need to do that. You could spend years trying to "reinforce positive behaviors." If anything, you have more of a moral obligation to protect your kids than you do to try to fix your husband.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: My Happy Place
Posts: 700
You said it yourself, you have him 4 chances. FOUR chances. I think that is enough. You tried. He did not. Now he is feeling sorry for himself and I love the typical A behavior of hanging up on you. You have no obligation as wife, or mother of his children to put up with this anymore. Do not give him chance number 5. See him for what he is and let him work this out on his own.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 494
If he couldn't even keep up the "new" him on the phone, how long do you think he'd be back in the house before it was business as usual?
I don't doubt that he's remorseful...I expect he is extremely remorseful that he lost his place to live and has to fend for himself.
I don't doubt that he's remorseful...I expect he is extremely remorseful that he lost his place to live and has to fend for himself.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 537
Again thank you thank you everyone...the support here is amazing!
I do think his feelings are real, I'm not disputing that. But he is factually wrong....he's been drinking for 25 years, alcoholically (as opposed to alcohol abuse/ heavy drinker) for about 17 years. His brother wrote him off only in the last few years because of the drinking. They are still marginally in contact, at family functions, but his little brother stands up to him and calls out on things, and he doesn't like it. Mind you little brother also has alcohol and drug issues but he is functional, and that drives AH crazy. Pot calling kettle black and all that.
So whilst i think he IS hurt and angry.....his brother didn't cause his drinking. But I do agree I can't dismiss every emotion AH has.
I haven't heard from him again, and I am doing ok so far. I'm hoping that I'm not ok bc I have this seed of hope. I think a large part of it is because AH hasnt contributed positively to my life for a long time (well he had a good 6 week period before this latest meltdown, and that was fantastic....I started to think it mightbe permanent....but it was just the calm before the biggest storm I've seen with him). So maybe theis nothing real to miss....maybe I am just grieving what 'could have' been.....
It's my oldest daughters birthday today...I have no expectations that she'll get a happy birthday or anything. Sad really isn't it?
Thanks again everyone.
I do think his feelings are real, I'm not disputing that. But he is factually wrong....he's been drinking for 25 years, alcoholically (as opposed to alcohol abuse/ heavy drinker) for about 17 years. His brother wrote him off only in the last few years because of the drinking. They are still marginally in contact, at family functions, but his little brother stands up to him and calls out on things, and he doesn't like it. Mind you little brother also has alcohol and drug issues but he is functional, and that drives AH crazy. Pot calling kettle black and all that.
So whilst i think he IS hurt and angry.....his brother didn't cause his drinking. But I do agree I can't dismiss every emotion AH has.
I haven't heard from him again, and I am doing ok so far. I'm hoping that I'm not ok bc I have this seed of hope. I think a large part of it is because AH hasnt contributed positively to my life for a long time (well he had a good 6 week period before this latest meltdown, and that was fantastic....I started to think it mightbe permanent....but it was just the calm before the biggest storm I've seen with him). So maybe theis nothing real to miss....maybe I am just grieving what 'could have' been.....
It's my oldest daughters birthday today...I have no expectations that she'll get a happy birthday or anything. Sad really isn't it?
Thanks again everyone.
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