A horrible night and a harsh wake up call
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
I'm so sorry, jarp. What a sad, horrible thing for you to go through.
And to hear that doctor's take on it - eye opening but painful.
I hope this helps you make decisions for yourself and the kids.
And to hear that doctor's take on it - eye opening but painful.
I hope this helps you make decisions for yourself and the kids.
K9 Trainer, Ret. Sys Engr
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: California
Posts: 389
Hope this adds something....
My RAA sister went sober at 60, she has been under the influence since 14. She has been sober 3 yrs 5 month. She is sober, but behavior has not changed. Dr told me that due to alcohol and drugs she never matured and likely at this stage will not.
Do you think that is what the DR is talking about? I think everyone has their own bottom. When they hit it they may be ready to get help.
Our wanting them to, needing them to will not make it happen. Spend more energy on yourself it will be a better investment in your future.
Hating what they do, protecting yourself from what they do does not mean you don't love them. First things first. Don't wait for his ship to come in before you can start living.
My RAA sister went sober at 60, she has been under the influence since 14. She has been sober 3 yrs 5 month. She is sober, but behavior has not changed. Dr told me that due to alcohol and drugs she never matured and likely at this stage will not.
Do you think that is what the DR is talking about? I think everyone has their own bottom. When they hit it they may be ready to get help.
Our wanting them to, needing them to will not make it happen. Spend more energy on yourself it will be a better investment in your future.
Hating what they do, protecting yourself from what they do does not mean you don't love them. First things first. Don't wait for his ship to come in before you can start living.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 2,728
Originally Posted by jarp 
So they sent him home with some benzo's, and said they'll follow up each day with a call....but from here there is nothing much they can do.
Originally Posted by jarp
Valium?
I just looked it up and it said its used for anxiety in alcoholics and to manage withdrawal symptoms....?
I just looked it up and it said its used for anxiety in alcoholics and to manage withdrawal symptoms....?
My husband was weaned off of his 12 day bender that resulted in a horrific motorcycle accident 1 year ago yesterday. He was treated with a benzo in the trauma center because he was scoring high on the wasp scale for withdrawl. He was under strict medical supervision. To say he was out of it and out of his mind is an understatement and to add alcohol on top of it... OMG. You better believe that he will mix the 2 and the things he will do will shock and amaze you in a horrifying way!
Also, No one can say someone will recover or not. Right now, your husband is not ready. No one knows anyone else's bottom and some bottoms have a basement. He may recover from this and he may not. The question is, Are you going to stand by him and wait and see? Because you could waste you whole life waiting for him to hit his bottom or not. Being with an alcoholic, even a recovering one, is a gamble in itself. Let me just say, we're not promised tomorrow will be a sober day if they don't want it to be a sober day.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 2,728
Originally Posted by Raider
Strange they are so sure he won't stop drinking......but then, hey have some Valium for the withdrawals you'll never have because you'll never stop. Does anyone find that odd??
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
Originally Posted by jarp
Found the Valium...they sent him home with 5 tablets and no script.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by ladyscribbler
My ex was so angry and violent I loved it when he had something calming in his system. If yours is better without it, then yes, drunks on drugs lose stuff all the time.
Yep...he's a complete zombie on it.....
It's strange.....the hospital he went to is one of the largest in the main city in Australia. When the security guards were holding him down the ER docs administered a very large dose of Valium to calm him down even though they were aware of his BAC. An hour later he started getting aggressive agai and they administered another dose which calmed him a bit but made him really jittery.
Anyways....I need to give up controlling him....let alone adding trying to control his medical treatment in an ER!!!!
And everyone is right...this needs to be about me and the kids and what my plan is. I had such good resolve, he came back was sorry sorry, and was on an upside, and seemed so normal ha I got sucked back in...but kept moving forward in my planning to with housing etc.
One thing that's been holding me back is worrying about him having unsupervised access to the kids...how can I leave for MY sanity but throw the kids right back in it...without the protection of even me there.
This is going to sound horrible but this is a blessing in disguise.....strong evidence for when I go to court to be able to support my claim that he should only have supervised access around the kids. It's been hard gathering the evidence I need....
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
Sounds like you've got some good stuff to document here. ER admission, .28 bac, suicide threats, Valium zombie. Sounds like an unstable environment for children to me. Use this momentum to plan your escape and protect your kids.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
It's always good to have hope, but hope is not a plan. Its a lot of emotional horror you have just been put through and slowly moving forward you need to figure out what it is YOU want out of life for yourself.
You already know what he wants out of life but what about you?
We reach a point where we should stop thinking/planning/counting on "us the couple" and begin to think of just "I".
You already know what he wants out of life but what about you?
We reach a point where we should stop thinking/planning/counting on "us the couple" and begin to think of just "I".
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rochester, ny
Posts: 405
Oh boyyyOboy. ...as painful as it is, that's definitely what you need to hear. I'm so sorry, I know the agony you're in..........
But, also, Thank You! Thank You! Thank you for writing that all down.
I'm still marching (trudging sometimes. Skipping sometimes too, lol... ) along on my own growing up work, and I've come a long way. (YAY me!!!
......but that's just what I needed to read tonight, cuz it's yet another lonely holiday. But, I needed the reminder yet again. This tells me exactly the reality of the AexBF. And he was 54 when we met!
But, also, Thank You! Thank You! Thank you for writing that all down.
I'm still marching (trudging sometimes. Skipping sometimes too, lol... ) along on my own growing up work, and I've come a long way. (YAY me!!!
......but that's just what I needed to read tonight, cuz it's yet another lonely holiday. But, I needed the reminder yet again. This tells me exactly the reality of the AexBF. And he was 54 when we met!
Originally Posted by jarp
Sorry super long....putting this down more for me to be able to reread and reread when I need to.
Yesterday I got a call from a man who my AH used to work with. He was to have lunch with him. He said when he met my AH he was very drunk and obviously depressed. AH started making suicide threats. The friend tried to get AH home in a cab. AH told the cab driver that the friend was trying to assault him and to drive off...and the cabbie did, leaving the friend behind.
The friend then called me at work because he was very concerned about the suicide threats. Long story short AH turned up in a hospital. When I got there he was being held down by 4 security guards and the dr was forcing a large quantity of sedative into him. He was being very agro.
He had a BAC of .28 and he had stopped drinking for several hours at that point.
It was horrible. Horrible.
The wake up call?
The addiction specialist at the hospital gave me a reality check, big time. Explained what I knew in terms of - alcohol, mental health, unless AH wants treatment there is nothing he, I, the hospital or anyone else can do. Even suicide attempts won't see him involuntarily committed.
My AH is 42 and has been drinking since his late teens. He basically said that the chances at this age, with his history and resistance to treatment of him even entering a recovery program, let alone 'working' the program was virtually nill.
He explained that AH has never lived any adult moment in his life without using alcohol. That he has the mind of a teenage boy. That to recover he'd need to go back and relive every moment of his life again...he'd need to feel everything, realise everything, confront every atom of hurt and damage he'd caused. And that in his 30 years of specialising in addiction medicine he had rarely seen someone with my AH's history have a positive ending. The challenge of living without alcohol at this stage of his life would most likely be insurmountable. Not totally impossible....but highly, highly unlikely.
Said AA talks about rock bottom....but in a man with a alcoholic career of 25 years, that started when he was a teen....there was no such thing. In all likelihood.
He had read all AH's old file notes from years back when he was hospitalised for 'bipolar' and shared some info with me.....a lot of what I've been told by AH about his history is lies. Surprise surprise. Said that he looks for a few signs to see if its likely someone might be ready to enter treatment. Number one was 'insight' and he said that AH's file had notes by all dr's etc that had seen him in the past saying he exhibited no insight. At all.
AH was being detained until he was deemed 'competent' to decide to leave. Meaning a BAC of 0.0. Which would take 15 hours or so. Then they'd try to assess him....but the dr said he could almost guarantee my AH's response would be "sorry, am so embaressed, having lots of stress, got drunk, suicide threats were alcohol talking, yes I'll go back and see my doc, yes ill get treatment, sorry sorry" and off he'll go and there is nothing he can do about it. And there's nothing I can do about it.
I had to leave him the as the hospital staff asked me why on earth I'd want to stick around and see him like this, plus he was very aggressive and they weren't sure if I was making him worse or better.
I didn't realise how much hope I was hanging on to. And that's gone now. I really needed to hear it. I'm devastated. But now I know. Now I know.
Yesterday I got a call from a man who my AH used to work with. He was to have lunch with him. He said when he met my AH he was very drunk and obviously depressed. AH started making suicide threats. The friend tried to get AH home in a cab. AH told the cab driver that the friend was trying to assault him and to drive off...and the cabbie did, leaving the friend behind.
The friend then called me at work because he was very concerned about the suicide threats. Long story short AH turned up in a hospital. When I got there he was being held down by 4 security guards and the dr was forcing a large quantity of sedative into him. He was being very agro.
He had a BAC of .28 and he had stopped drinking for several hours at that point.
It was horrible. Horrible.
The wake up call?
The addiction specialist at the hospital gave me a reality check, big time. Explained what I knew in terms of - alcohol, mental health, unless AH wants treatment there is nothing he, I, the hospital or anyone else can do. Even suicide attempts won't see him involuntarily committed.
My AH is 42 and has been drinking since his late teens. He basically said that the chances at this age, with his history and resistance to treatment of him even entering a recovery program, let alone 'working' the program was virtually nill.
He explained that AH has never lived any adult moment in his life without using alcohol. That he has the mind of a teenage boy. That to recover he'd need to go back and relive every moment of his life again...he'd need to feel everything, realise everything, confront every atom of hurt and damage he'd caused. And that in his 30 years of specialising in addiction medicine he had rarely seen someone with my AH's history have a positive ending. The challenge of living without alcohol at this stage of his life would most likely be insurmountable. Not totally impossible....but highly, highly unlikely.
Said AA talks about rock bottom....but in a man with a alcoholic career of 25 years, that started when he was a teen....there was no such thing. In all likelihood.
He had read all AH's old file notes from years back when he was hospitalised for 'bipolar' and shared some info with me.....a lot of what I've been told by AH about his history is lies. Surprise surprise. Said that he looks for a few signs to see if its likely someone might be ready to enter treatment. Number one was 'insight' and he said that AH's file had notes by all dr's etc that had seen him in the past saying he exhibited no insight. At all.
AH was being detained until he was deemed 'competent' to decide to leave. Meaning a BAC of 0.0. Which would take 15 hours or so. Then they'd try to assess him....but the dr said he could almost guarantee my AH's response would be "sorry, am so embaressed, having lots of stress, got drunk, suicide threats were alcohol talking, yes I'll go back and see my doc, yes ill get treatment, sorry sorry" and off he'll go and there is nothing he can do about it. And there's nothing I can do about it.
I had to leave him the as the hospital staff asked me why on earth I'd want to stick around and see him like this, plus he was very aggressive and they weren't sure if I was making him worse or better.
I didn't realise how much hope I was hanging on to. And that's gone now. I really needed to hear it. I'm devastated. But now I know. Now I know.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,927
I agree with what the doctor at the hospital told you. I was just reading an article with a case similar to your husband’s where the wife had to call 911 for her husband at home due to drug overdose, and he initially denied a problem, then admitted he wanted help but ended up walking out of the hospital his wife in tears. Doctors cant stop patients, and wives cant force treatment in most cases.
I very much agree that sitting back and waiting for rock bottom is a bad idea. Its not even recommended by any of the professionals Ive heard talk about it …because people need to stop sooner rather than later. Having life deteriorate only makes recovery harder to achieve. So this is the only thing that stumps me about the doctor talking to you.
And perhaps you have already been down this road… but most doctors will obviously encourage professional treatment & they will ask if you have ever tried to do an intervention of any kind.
This is what we had to do with my husband. He had an incident similar to what happened with your husband. He actually went into seizures while using Xanax and had to go to the ER. I had been planning for a while however. Had talked to family, talked to various rehabs and decided what type I thought would work best for him, knew the laws about his taking time off work, and worked with a doctor. We did a mini intervention and although he initially rejected the idea (wasn’t ready, didn’t need help) – he ended up saying yes he would go to one of the rehabs. He didn’t want to stay once he got there (also normal) but he did. Once his mind started to clear, the doctors worked with him, and he started to feel better and have HOPE for the future… he began to want recovery for himself.
People don’t always want it initially, often because drugs or alcohols are clouding their minds, and decisions. I feel your husband is actually in a place where he just cant imagine functioning without alcohol because he has used it as a coping mechanism, pain relief, reward, maybe even as self punishment for years.. what he needs is to realize he can live without it, and he can be happy.
I just wanted to share this because its clearly within your right to say enough and end things. I know you have children. I had a 5 month old son at the time we did the intervention. I just felt the need to share because we really do not know what will provide the catalyst for change; family does have power in many instances to encourage change.
With a lifelong addiction your husband would have to do a lot of therapy IMO, but it can be done as others have attested. I would actually suggest you consider meeting with an addiction specialist who works with evidence based treatments and ask for insight on the situation.
My husband and I are going to a reunion picnic at the rehab where he found help on Saturday. This will be his second anniversary. We both started mentoring through the rehab last year, and I think its important to share with you… many people do find lasting recovery.
I was also separated from my husband for a time when he was actively using; continued on my own path with my career, home and friends…. but I also continued to make plans for when I had an opportunity to help him.
Whatever you do.. I wish you well, and I will be sending up a prayer for both of you this evening.
I very much agree that sitting back and waiting for rock bottom is a bad idea. Its not even recommended by any of the professionals Ive heard talk about it …because people need to stop sooner rather than later. Having life deteriorate only makes recovery harder to achieve. So this is the only thing that stumps me about the doctor talking to you.
And perhaps you have already been down this road… but most doctors will obviously encourage professional treatment & they will ask if you have ever tried to do an intervention of any kind.
This is what we had to do with my husband. He had an incident similar to what happened with your husband. He actually went into seizures while using Xanax and had to go to the ER. I had been planning for a while however. Had talked to family, talked to various rehabs and decided what type I thought would work best for him, knew the laws about his taking time off work, and worked with a doctor. We did a mini intervention and although he initially rejected the idea (wasn’t ready, didn’t need help) – he ended up saying yes he would go to one of the rehabs. He didn’t want to stay once he got there (also normal) but he did. Once his mind started to clear, the doctors worked with him, and he started to feel better and have HOPE for the future… he began to want recovery for himself.
People don’t always want it initially, often because drugs or alcohols are clouding their minds, and decisions. I feel your husband is actually in a place where he just cant imagine functioning without alcohol because he has used it as a coping mechanism, pain relief, reward, maybe even as self punishment for years.. what he needs is to realize he can live without it, and he can be happy.
I just wanted to share this because its clearly within your right to say enough and end things. I know you have children. I had a 5 month old son at the time we did the intervention. I just felt the need to share because we really do not know what will provide the catalyst for change; family does have power in many instances to encourage change.
With a lifelong addiction your husband would have to do a lot of therapy IMO, but it can be done as others have attested. I would actually suggest you consider meeting with an addiction specialist who works with evidence based treatments and ask for insight on the situation.
My husband and I are going to a reunion picnic at the rehab where he found help on Saturday. This will be his second anniversary. We both started mentoring through the rehab last year, and I think its important to share with you… many people do find lasting recovery.
I was also separated from my husband for a time when he was actively using; continued on my own path with my career, home and friends…. but I also continued to make plans for when I had an opportunity to help him.
Whatever you do.. I wish you well, and I will be sending up a prayer for both of you this evening.
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
I think the doctor was simply being painfully realistic with you. After so many years, his brain is so damaged that he will likely never be normal. He stopped his growth at 15. That's a long time. My AM started at 21, and is now... 64. A couple of failed trips through rehab, but no desire to ever quit. She has the emotional maturity of a toddler and NPD, to boot. The doctors told us the last time I was there that she would likely not find recovery (which I had figured out for myself long before that). At least they weren't trying to pin all of her problems on us family members like the therapists were. Anyway, I don't think it's worth potentially wasting the rest of your life waiting for something that may never come. I mean really, when you look to the future, what do you see? I'd be awfully sad if mine was simply sitting around keeping the status quo with no joy in my life. I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I would choose joy.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Engerland
Posts: 897
Jarp
Thank you for your post.
I'm here to tell you that age and drinking experience need not be a barrier to recovery. I am proof of that. However, the one thing that the 'expert' said with which i do agree, is that your AH must want sobriety more than literally anything else in his life.
It is not true that he cannot have a life changing rock bottom.
Mine came when all of those that had propped me up and facilitated my drinking for years just upped and said 'enough is enough'.
That included employers (no money or routine), loved ones (nobody to whine and apologise to) partner (nobody to despairingly get me that 'last drink') friends (nobody to understand my intellectual ********') and no me (just a shambling, hopeless, ill wreck of a man).
Sadly some of us need to get to that point to make a decision that we really need help or we die.
I hope that you AH is enlightened before that point but i can assure you that if he does not want to stop, then all those that continue to prop him up are contributing unwittingly to his eventual demise.
Sorry to be so blunt, but this is your life that he is wasting as well as his own.
G
Thank you for your post.
I'm here to tell you that age and drinking experience need not be a barrier to recovery. I am proof of that. However, the one thing that the 'expert' said with which i do agree, is that your AH must want sobriety more than literally anything else in his life.
It is not true that he cannot have a life changing rock bottom.
Mine came when all of those that had propped me up and facilitated my drinking for years just upped and said 'enough is enough'.
That included employers (no money or routine), loved ones (nobody to whine and apologise to) partner (nobody to despairingly get me that 'last drink') friends (nobody to understand my intellectual ********') and no me (just a shambling, hopeless, ill wreck of a man).
Sadly some of us need to get to that point to make a decision that we really need help or we die.
I hope that you AH is enlightened before that point but i can assure you that if he does not want to stop, then all those that continue to prop him up are contributing unwittingly to his eventual demise.
Sorry to be so blunt, but this is your life that he is wasting as well as his own.
G
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 537
Thank you everyone, many of these posts have shown such kindness that its made me cry. Thank you especially to those of you who have shared your personal experiences and the experiences you've had with loved ones.
Especially NWGRITS....choose joy......I want to choose joy.
I'm in such turmoil. So anxious thinking about this. Worrying.
I went out for a couple of hours this afternoon. He's gone. The valium are gone. Which is all fine but he didn't take his phone. His phone is like his 5th limb. I've seen him virtually comatose and he still grips onto that thing. I've NEVER known him to leave the house without it. EVER. I have a bad feeling...and I don't even know any more whether to trust my intuition. I'm just really concerned bc of the suicide threats. Thing is he disappears...so I feel I can't call the police....as its not 'unusual' behaviour per se. Just that damned phone sitting there.....
And I know it's not my responsibility, if he chooses to attempt suicide then I didn't cause that, can't control it, and can't cure that either! I do 'know' that.
Especially NWGRITS....choose joy......I want to choose joy.
I'm in such turmoil. So anxious thinking about this. Worrying.
I went out for a couple of hours this afternoon. He's gone. The valium are gone. Which is all fine but he didn't take his phone. His phone is like his 5th limb. I've seen him virtually comatose and he still grips onto that thing. I've NEVER known him to leave the house without it. EVER. I have a bad feeling...and I don't even know any more whether to trust my intuition. I'm just really concerned bc of the suicide threats. Thing is he disappears...so I feel I can't call the police....as its not 'unusual' behaviour per se. Just that damned phone sitting there.....
And I know it's not my responsibility, if he chooses to attempt suicide then I didn't cause that, can't control it, and can't cure that either! I do 'know' that.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Jarp, I'm so sorry you had such a rough couple of days.
I wish there were some magic words I could give you right now but there just aren't. Perhaps with the addition of the valium to his drinking he simply forgot the phone, as unusual as that may be for him? Do YOU believe his threats of suicide to be genuine or has he threatened this a lot in the past? ((((hugs))))))
I wish there were some magic words I could give you right now but there just aren't. Perhaps with the addition of the valium to his drinking he simply forgot the phone, as unusual as that may be for him? Do YOU believe his threats of suicide to be genuine or has he threatened this a lot in the past? ((((hugs))))))
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 105
How long has he been gone? Does he drive or walk? Do you know where he usually goes? Does he do this (disappear) often?
My ABF would often leave telling me and that was another trigger to start my anger up. **% he was not with a woman. It was just the fact he was doing something stupid and possibly dangerous (if he were to get a public intox roaming around drunk or with wrong people). Most of the time he was only gone about 30 minutes walking to store to buy more beer. But if he had a big fire in yard he would leave with it burning. I wanted him to tell me he was leaving so I could keep an eye on it. He liked the feeling of sneaking out/no controlling him better..
My ABF would often leave telling me and that was another trigger to start my anger up. **% he was not with a woman. It was just the fact he was doing something stupid and possibly dangerous (if he were to get a public intox roaming around drunk or with wrong people). Most of the time he was only gone about 30 minutes walking to store to buy more beer. But if he had a big fire in yard he would leave with it burning. I wanted him to tell me he was leaving so I could keep an eye on it. He liked the feeling of sneaking out/no controlling him better..
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
ive been goin through this thread and it brought back memories of what i used to be like. i like remembering where i came from at times. helps me to keep working at getting farther away from that last drink.
i started drinkin at about 13 years old and got into recovery at 36. what i read of your hubby, i had a lot of traits he is showing. with all the people telling me i drink too much and all of the stories the morning afer of what i did, i rationalzed it all but would not admit i had a problem with alcohol. it was denial. today i can see that deep down in me i knew alcohol was the major problem in my life. but i didn't want to admit it.....yet. and it wasn't going to matter how much preaching anyone did, i wouldn't listen.
it wasn't until the morning after a rip snortin blackout drunk that denial started lifting. i woke up and my then fiancé told me some of the things i had said and done the night before and threw me out. she had FINALLY gotten sick of my behavior.
that was when i got out of denial and got help.
im not really writing this abut me- its more about the people in my life through the years. my fiancé throwing me out was the best thing she could have ever done...for herself. through my life, anyone that walked away from me made a vary wise move. i would do my best to take anyone around me down with me. the best move they all made for themselves,IMO, was to walk away from me.
i started drinkin at about 13 years old and got into recovery at 36. what i read of your hubby, i had a lot of traits he is showing. with all the people telling me i drink too much and all of the stories the morning afer of what i did, i rationalzed it all but would not admit i had a problem with alcohol. it was denial. today i can see that deep down in me i knew alcohol was the major problem in my life. but i didn't want to admit it.....yet. and it wasn't going to matter how much preaching anyone did, i wouldn't listen.
it wasn't until the morning after a rip snortin blackout drunk that denial started lifting. i woke up and my then fiancé told me some of the things i had said and done the night before and threw me out. she had FINALLY gotten sick of my behavior.
that was when i got out of denial and got help.
im not really writing this abut me- its more about the people in my life through the years. my fiancé throwing me out was the best thing she could have ever done...for herself. through my life, anyone that walked away from me made a vary wise move. i would do my best to take anyone around me down with me. the best move they all made for themselves,IMO, was to walk away from me.
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