What attracts us to the addict?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Apart from claccic codependency patterns that can underlie the phenomenon...
I think we (humans) have a strong tendency to romanticize many things, the "troubled genius" (someone we perceive uniquely talented and mentally haunted at the same time) is just one of them. Addicts almost often qualify for the "troubled" part of the concept, but it's this combination with their other special features that can be very attractive. Also, many people are drawn to somewhat mysterious and intriguing characters (I'm definitely one of such people) because they pique our curiosity... and addicts almost always have many secrets that we sense around them even if we don't have a direct glimpse into the damaged parts of their life.
In my late 20's and during my 30's, I habitually got "hooked" on this type of personality complex: seemingly enigmatic, highly intelligent people with an innovator and pioneer spirit who would always try to carve out their approaches, create their own life and meaning, and sometimes get with all this far beyond their own territory, into important discoveries, works of art, betterment of society... whatever. Doing these things, while secretly suffering from a host of personal problems and hardships, or they did in the past, and that led them to develop great vision and wisdom. It seemed like this type of character is the biggest lure for me.... and I must admit, I did have some incredible (and often difficult) stories out of it in during my life.
It's only recently that I'm beginning to recognize and discover that, at least in this phase of my life, it is (and will be) much healthier and much more meaningful and satisfying for me to seek and find "love" and connection, for it's own sake. Not mysteries and special talents, not primarily at least. Approaching it this way will most likely lead to more fulfilling relationships in the future for me, I think.
My therapist and I have had some very interesting discussions related to this topic recently. It wasn't all new what he told me, more a confirmation from a skilled professional about what I'd already known, that my pattern of attraction is often a form of identity search and projection - I tend to be drawn to people in whom I perceive a more highly developed, more "ideal" version of myself (usually also quite a bit older) but with similar basic traits. For me this is not codependency (I've never been a codie really), but a form of idealism, and I'm very much a pretty hardcore realist in other areas of life. So for example, when I was in the worst of my active alcoholism, for many years I was deeply in love with another alcoholic who, while being an addict, also did some incredible and very unique things in his life, everything his way, not worrying much about others' judgment. Of course none of us would ever know now what could have happened had we both not been limited and distorted by alcoholism...
"I wonder why they can't put that same enthusiasm into their families?"
I think because while many of these people may be uniquely talented in their work, they tend to be rather self-absorbed when it comes to the interpersonal realm. Perhaps never even really learned how to navigate well in that world, or maybe their addictions and/or other psychological problems skewed it significantly.
I think the best approach is to truly focus on the other person(s) as they are themselves, develop nurturing and mutually enriching connections with them. But in order to do this effectively, we first must learn to accept and love ourselves. If we managed to achieved that, then I think there won't been the need to search for our idealized identities or a problem to "fix" in the form of another person.
I think we (humans) have a strong tendency to romanticize many things, the "troubled genius" (someone we perceive uniquely talented and mentally haunted at the same time) is just one of them. Addicts almost often qualify for the "troubled" part of the concept, but it's this combination with their other special features that can be very attractive. Also, many people are drawn to somewhat mysterious and intriguing characters (I'm definitely one of such people) because they pique our curiosity... and addicts almost always have many secrets that we sense around them even if we don't have a direct glimpse into the damaged parts of their life.
In my late 20's and during my 30's, I habitually got "hooked" on this type of personality complex: seemingly enigmatic, highly intelligent people with an innovator and pioneer spirit who would always try to carve out their approaches, create their own life and meaning, and sometimes get with all this far beyond their own territory, into important discoveries, works of art, betterment of society... whatever. Doing these things, while secretly suffering from a host of personal problems and hardships, or they did in the past, and that led them to develop great vision and wisdom. It seemed like this type of character is the biggest lure for me.... and I must admit, I did have some incredible (and often difficult) stories out of it in during my life.
It's only recently that I'm beginning to recognize and discover that, at least in this phase of my life, it is (and will be) much healthier and much more meaningful and satisfying for me to seek and find "love" and connection, for it's own sake. Not mysteries and special talents, not primarily at least. Approaching it this way will most likely lead to more fulfilling relationships in the future for me, I think.
My therapist and I have had some very interesting discussions related to this topic recently. It wasn't all new what he told me, more a confirmation from a skilled professional about what I'd already known, that my pattern of attraction is often a form of identity search and projection - I tend to be drawn to people in whom I perceive a more highly developed, more "ideal" version of myself (usually also quite a bit older) but with similar basic traits. For me this is not codependency (I've never been a codie really), but a form of idealism, and I'm very much a pretty hardcore realist in other areas of life. So for example, when I was in the worst of my active alcoholism, for many years I was deeply in love with another alcoholic who, while being an addict, also did some incredible and very unique things in his life, everything his way, not worrying much about others' judgment. Of course none of us would ever know now what could have happened had we both not been limited and distorted by alcoholism...
"I wonder why they can't put that same enthusiasm into their families?"
I think because while many of these people may be uniquely talented in their work, they tend to be rather self-absorbed when it comes to the interpersonal realm. Perhaps never even really learned how to navigate well in that world, or maybe their addictions and/or other psychological problems skewed it significantly.
I think the best approach is to truly focus on the other person(s) as they are themselves, develop nurturing and mutually enriching connections with them. But in order to do this effectively, we first must learn to accept and love ourselves. If we managed to achieved that, then I think there won't been the need to search for our idealized identities or a problem to "fix" in the form of another person.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 41
Thanks again guys, thanks lady scribbler I did look at a few codependency stickies and although they are quite intimidating I can see many of them are a big tick in me. A start I guess. Some of them are not very nice to realise about yourself. I also see a lot of codependency traits in him, is that quite common that the addict is also codependant? The other thing I'm struggling with here is, being addicted to someone, and being In love with someone? Wanting to spend time with them, wanting to talk to them, wanting to see them happy, are these just being in love? Hard for me to differentiate the two, I think being addicted to a person would be a lot more needy? But aren't you quite needy anyway after just having two babies very close together? Hard for me to see.
I do recognise the tasty crumb and how sweet it tastes and I really do think what I've said has made him think, but i also know he still had a few drinks and last night also not drunk just 3 or 4 hard to tell until I start the cleaning.
Then I read that back and see it all very clearly. What a shame.
I worry about the kids my older two who are on dad number two his two that are on Mum number two and our two just so young and innocent. Feel a bit stuck kind damned if I do and damned if I don't.
I'm glad I've joined sr so I can do this important work on myself and also hear others struggles it's been amazing all ready. I don't think my drinker likes it very much. Makes him feel 'guilty' that's what he says. I'm thinking maybe scared that I have found strength and support.
I do recognise the tasty crumb and how sweet it tastes and I really do think what I've said has made him think, but i also know he still had a few drinks and last night also not drunk just 3 or 4 hard to tell until I start the cleaning.
Then I read that back and see it all very clearly. What a shame.
I worry about the kids my older two who are on dad number two his two that are on Mum number two and our two just so young and innocent. Feel a bit stuck kind damned if I do and damned if I don't.
I'm glad I've joined sr so I can do this important work on myself and also hear others struggles it's been amazing all ready. I don't think my drinker likes it very much. Makes him feel 'guilty' that's what he says. I'm thinking maybe scared that I have found strength and support.
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: over there
Posts: 253
My soon to be exdh was charming, funny with a wicked sense of humour and in the early days good in bed. It was all a front. My best time with him in 18 years was 3 days after he had an op and he couldn't drink. In 18 years he's had a total of 7 days off the booze and 4 of them he was off his face on a morphine pump. People only see the charm and I'm the wicked witch for us splitting up. They don't see the financial drain, the debt, him on the floor at 3am in a puddle of pee, him lurching around the house banging into things, him starting arguments, him sleeping the day away, him in a separate bed cos I'm sick of being wet every night. They just see what I first saw, the good looking charmer.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 399
wow tansy did we share the same guy? God this sux. I've been labeled the crazy one by everyone.. it hurts so much.. he looks like mr perfect and I look like the sad case who is still chasing after him... it's horrible how that happens. He's talented, a great singer, a great actor, a good musician.. incredibly funny.. super smart... people love him.. he's infectious where ever he goes.. hence why I fell so hard for him
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
killerinstinct---I would say that most of the people in the entertainment world have this in common. At least, the ones that are up front and center.
Don't you think that it is hard to be a successful entertainer without Narcissism written all over?
Have you ever seen a successful entertainer-in the long haul-- who doesn't have a salt-of-the-earth person as their back-p. Someone, more or less in the shadows who makes the sacrifices in order to pave the way?
The audience sees only the tiny "slice" of the whole person....just the talent part that is carefully chosen to be put on display. I think it is human nature to judge just by what is seen and make assumptions that that is the whole package. A kind of "judge a book by it's cover", kind if thing.
For me, I don't like to see my favorite entertainers be interviewed...because I have so often been disillusioned when I see them "stripped down" to mere mortality---often the fairy dust is just not there!!!!!!!!! (except for some rare exceptions).
I guess that, in reality, we never really know a person unless we have spent a long time "up close and personal". in every kind of circumstance, for a looong time!!
sigh.....
dandylion
for those of us who have strong co-dependent traits--I think it is a mistake to bond strongly..too early and too often!
Don't you think that it is hard to be a successful entertainer without Narcissism written all over?
Have you ever seen a successful entertainer-in the long haul-- who doesn't have a salt-of-the-earth person as their back-p. Someone, more or less in the shadows who makes the sacrifices in order to pave the way?
The audience sees only the tiny "slice" of the whole person....just the talent part that is carefully chosen to be put on display. I think it is human nature to judge just by what is seen and make assumptions that that is the whole package. A kind of "judge a book by it's cover", kind if thing.
For me, I don't like to see my favorite entertainers be interviewed...because I have so often been disillusioned when I see them "stripped down" to mere mortality---often the fairy dust is just not there!!!!!!!!! (except for some rare exceptions).
I guess that, in reality, we never really know a person unless we have spent a long time "up close and personal". in every kind of circumstance, for a looong time!!
sigh.....
dandylion
for those of us who have strong co-dependent traits--I think it is a mistake to bond strongly..too early and too often!
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: over there
Posts: 253
I never fell hard for him tbh. I got pregnant to him with twins and was made homeless with 5 children under the age of 7. My parents offered me a rental of theirs but only if we married first. We married. I thought I was in love but now I am in love know I wasn't. He married me as soft landing. The man I'm in love with now is keeping his distance. We agreed. I am way off another relationship but he's the opposite of ex. Works hard, drinks socially and only sporadically. Has his own place. I dream about a time in the future when I'm healed and wonder if we will end up together but life isn't a fairy story. I miss him tho.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 1,303
Codependency. There's quite a few stickies at the top of the page, but I will explain a bit based on your post. He came home for a couple of nights, was sober and attentive to the family. You think this is because he heard your pleading and is maybe finally "getting it." Now you have hope.
He came home sober because he chose to, not because of some magic words from you. It was a nice couple of days, and now you are hanging future hopes on what is essentially a bare minimum of decent, normal behavior from him. These crumbs are nourishing you because you have been starved for so long. There are men who come home to their families sober every night and spend quality time with their wives and children.
Codependency comes in when you think that something you say or do has an effect on his choices and behavior and when you are so used to unacceptable behavior that those little crumbs and scraps of kindness and normalcy seem like a feast. Also when you choose to ignore all past evidence to the contrary and cling to the idea that this time is totally different. He has somehow changed into the husband of your dreams overnight and will now stay that way forever.
I did that stuff for years, so I'm not criticizing you. Sometimes it is easier to understand something if the examples are drawn from our own behavior and experiences.
Not sure how to quote this but this was my life...scrabbling at crumbs on the floor..awful awful awful for your self-esteem! I have had to do a lot of work on myself to get off the floor and now feel that if he came back begging I would say no way!
He came home sober because he chose to, not because of some magic words from you. It was a nice couple of days, and now you are hanging future hopes on what is essentially a bare minimum of decent, normal behavior from him. These crumbs are nourishing you because you have been starved for so long. There are men who come home to their families sober every night and spend quality time with their wives and children.
Codependency comes in when you think that something you say or do has an effect on his choices and behavior and when you are so used to unacceptable behavior that those little crumbs and scraps of kindness and normalcy seem like a feast. Also when you choose to ignore all past evidence to the contrary and cling to the idea that this time is totally different. He has somehow changed into the husband of your dreams overnight and will now stay that way forever.
I did that stuff for years, so I'm not criticizing you. Sometimes it is easier to understand something if the examples are drawn from our own behavior and experiences.
Not sure how to quote this but this was my life...scrabbling at crumbs on the floor..awful awful awful for your self-esteem! I have had to do a lot of work on myself to get off the floor and now feel that if he came back begging I would say no way!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 214
I was in a relationship with my hopes, not the actual man.
I was giving meaning to his actions--oh, he's just really hurting inside, he's just stressed, he must really love me b/c..... I should have been asking myself, "Do these actions work for me? (answer, hell no!!!)
Charisma, talent, sensitivity, intelligence--he had all of that. Unfortunately, he used it solely to manipulate people, and hide his addictions!
I used to really find this kind of person attractive. I must be getting smarter, because I can still spot them a mile away and feel the attraction--but I run in the other direction now!
I was giving meaning to his actions--oh, he's just really hurting inside, he's just stressed, he must really love me b/c..... I should have been asking myself, "Do these actions work for me? (answer, hell no!!!)
Charisma, talent, sensitivity, intelligence--he had all of that. Unfortunately, he used it solely to manipulate people, and hide his addictions!
I used to really find this kind of person attractive. I must be getting smarter, because I can still spot them a mile away and feel the attraction--but I run in the other direction now!
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