Not my ....(insert their name here)
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Mich
Posts: 9
Not my ....(insert their name here)
It's difficult to understand the difference between denial and really understanding what the truth is.
Sorry this is all over as I am still working to sort things through...
I was living with an alcoholic lady who told me all her innermost secrets. Telling me that I was the first one she ever told them to.
At first, she pulled me in, then pushed me away. This cycle repeated itself for 3 months. Finally I said, enough. And I pulled back and walked away.
Two weeks later, she pleaded with me to be hers. She said she was sorry and would spend the rest of her life making it up to me.
4 months later of living together, I left one night after another night of questionable behavior.
I'm pretty certain she never cheated. But she kept surrounding herself with questionable people. Drug dealers and ex cons. Saying they were good hearted people and they were her friends.
She told me I was trying to control her life and I couldn't tell her who she could hang out with.
That was when I had had enough.
This was now 6 weeks ago.
She informed me after I left that we would never be a couple again.
The person that I know, is super nice. No self esteem and just a scared little girl on the inside.
I always wanted to protect her, yet not become an enabler.
I bought her stuff (groceries, concerts etc.) which allowed her to have money for liquor. And she would drink to black out. Never being able to say "no more for me, thanks".
As mentioned, she pushed me away and pulled me back, with the explanation that I was the person she always wanted but too scared to be with.
After 2 months, her world got very wild. And she would be all over the place.
(might have a little bi-polar issue, but not certain).
I endured it for the next two months, covering her drunken tracks and I just couldn't do it anymore.
She said she told me what she drank in an effort to show me she was trying to quit. But thats what she told me about.
I found myself checking out her stories and looking for liquor bottles around the house.
It's not the way I wanted to spend my life.
But now, I'm riddled with guilt for abandoning the "little girl" I knew.
When I left, I left the door wide open. Telling her I wasn't going to date anyone and that I was going to focus on me for awhile.
She immediately went out with her ex-boyfriend and informed me she was going to be going out on another date on the following Saturday.
It hurt and knowing her, thats all she wanted to do. Was to hurt me.
I informed her this week, I am going to start dating, again.
Which of course upset her.
While I am not wanting to ask for advice, I am looking for insight.
She is now working out daily. I don't know if she is still drinking. But judging by her appearance, she is. She is looking puffy daily.
I don't know if I should try to hold on to a dream of who this person is and wait. Or just try to move on.
I am crushed emotionally still. I have attended two al anon meetings which have helped tremendously.
I love her dearly and adore her.
I believe she did love me, as well.
And probably still does. As she has been very mean to me since. (I work with her and see her 2-3 times a week).
I couldn't look at her for the first couple weeks as it crushed me.
I didn't want to talk to her either. Because it was so painful.
She said I was her best friend, which made things horribly worse, cause I took everything from her.
She is doing some of the things now, that we talked about doing together. I'm not sure of the purpose, but she is.
So...now that you know the backstory....I have questions....
1 When people say alcoholics are master manipulators, do they lie about feelings when they are sober?
2. Are they ever truly ever sober? (drinks to excess daily)
3. Do they ever just walk away forever, or will they try to keep their claws in a person?
4. Do alcoholics really have a personality? Meaning, are they really the person they project to you? Or are they just allowing you to see the person they want you to see to keep you.
I am waiting for her to reach out to me again.
I am NOT going to plead with her to take me back, cause that is enabling her.
And I don't want to get on the merry-go-round.
I am just missing "her" so much. But I am not sure who the person I was in love with.
It's so weird.
Did that person ever really exist?
Thank you so much for replying to all my jibberish.
It's just like a big knotted ball of yarn in my head right now.
Sorry this is all over as I am still working to sort things through...
I was living with an alcoholic lady who told me all her innermost secrets. Telling me that I was the first one she ever told them to.
At first, she pulled me in, then pushed me away. This cycle repeated itself for 3 months. Finally I said, enough. And I pulled back and walked away.
Two weeks later, she pleaded with me to be hers. She said she was sorry and would spend the rest of her life making it up to me.
4 months later of living together, I left one night after another night of questionable behavior.
I'm pretty certain she never cheated. But she kept surrounding herself with questionable people. Drug dealers and ex cons. Saying they were good hearted people and they were her friends.
She told me I was trying to control her life and I couldn't tell her who she could hang out with.
That was when I had had enough.
This was now 6 weeks ago.
She informed me after I left that we would never be a couple again.
The person that I know, is super nice. No self esteem and just a scared little girl on the inside.
I always wanted to protect her, yet not become an enabler.
I bought her stuff (groceries, concerts etc.) which allowed her to have money for liquor. And she would drink to black out. Never being able to say "no more for me, thanks".
As mentioned, she pushed me away and pulled me back, with the explanation that I was the person she always wanted but too scared to be with.
After 2 months, her world got very wild. And she would be all over the place.
(might have a little bi-polar issue, but not certain).
I endured it for the next two months, covering her drunken tracks and I just couldn't do it anymore.
She said she told me what she drank in an effort to show me she was trying to quit. But thats what she told me about.
I found myself checking out her stories and looking for liquor bottles around the house.
It's not the way I wanted to spend my life.
But now, I'm riddled with guilt for abandoning the "little girl" I knew.
When I left, I left the door wide open. Telling her I wasn't going to date anyone and that I was going to focus on me for awhile.
She immediately went out with her ex-boyfriend and informed me she was going to be going out on another date on the following Saturday.
It hurt and knowing her, thats all she wanted to do. Was to hurt me.
I informed her this week, I am going to start dating, again.
Which of course upset her.
While I am not wanting to ask for advice, I am looking for insight.
She is now working out daily. I don't know if she is still drinking. But judging by her appearance, she is. She is looking puffy daily.
I don't know if I should try to hold on to a dream of who this person is and wait. Or just try to move on.
I am crushed emotionally still. I have attended two al anon meetings which have helped tremendously.
I love her dearly and adore her.
I believe she did love me, as well.
And probably still does. As she has been very mean to me since. (I work with her and see her 2-3 times a week).
I couldn't look at her for the first couple weeks as it crushed me.
I didn't want to talk to her either. Because it was so painful.
She said I was her best friend, which made things horribly worse, cause I took everything from her.
She is doing some of the things now, that we talked about doing together. I'm not sure of the purpose, but she is.
So...now that you know the backstory....I have questions....
1 When people say alcoholics are master manipulators, do they lie about feelings when they are sober?
2. Are they ever truly ever sober? (drinks to excess daily)
3. Do they ever just walk away forever, or will they try to keep their claws in a person?
4. Do alcoholics really have a personality? Meaning, are they really the person they project to you? Or are they just allowing you to see the person they want you to see to keep you.
I am waiting for her to reach out to me again.
I am NOT going to plead with her to take me back, cause that is enabling her.
And I don't want to get on the merry-go-round.
I am just missing "her" so much. But I am not sure who the person I was in love with.
It's so weird.
Did that person ever really exist?
Thank you so much for replying to all my jibberish.
It's just like a big knotted ball of yarn in my head right now.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
1. ? Maybe.
2. Drinking daily, probably not.
3. Only if you let them. Going no contact is the best way to move on from this. No need to inform her you're dating or keep her posted on your life, or to keep up with her drama.
4. Sounds like your ex had some other issues on top of alcoholism. Borderline personality disorder springs to mind, but it could be something else. I would say no, not all alcoholics do that. And plenty of people who are not alcoholics do that.
Based on your description, sounds like your ex was self medicating for a mental issue. You made the right decision, heart wrenching as it seems. You did not abandon a helpless child. You left a grown woman to live her own life and make her own choices.
Something that has helped me since ending my relationship with an alcoholic has been attending Alanon. It had helped me work through the burden of needless guilt and pain I was carrying.
Welcome and keep posting. Lots of great experience here. The stickies at the top of the page are a great resource and there is a mental health forum where you can learn more about personality disorders.
2. Drinking daily, probably not.
3. Only if you let them. Going no contact is the best way to move on from this. No need to inform her you're dating or keep her posted on your life, or to keep up with her drama.
4. Sounds like your ex had some other issues on top of alcoholism. Borderline personality disorder springs to mind, but it could be something else. I would say no, not all alcoholics do that. And plenty of people who are not alcoholics do that.
Based on your description, sounds like your ex was self medicating for a mental issue. You made the right decision, heart wrenching as it seems. You did not abandon a helpless child. You left a grown woman to live her own life and make her own choices.
Something that has helped me since ending my relationship with an alcoholic has been attending Alanon. It had helped me work through the burden of needless guilt and pain I was carrying.
Welcome and keep posting. Lots of great experience here. The stickies at the top of the page are a great resource and there is a mental health forum where you can learn more about personality disorders.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 240
Wow
Well let me tell you about my brother
A lost little boy, hung out with all the wrong people all the time saying "they were good at heart" (no they were scumbags)
We tried everything and he chose to continue this lifestyle
He is now dying due to those choices
My mama always explained it to me that "Water seeks it's own level"
Let me answer your questions
1) Maybe, depends on how impaired they are (wet brain) when sober
2) NO
3) Once you make it clear you won't take any BS and you won't give them a free ride you will never see/hear from them. (didn't hear from brother for 10 plus years)
4) Depends on a lot of variables but an active alcoholic will be anything they THINK YOU WANT THEM TO BE in order to keep the status quo.
Run for you life - NOW
This is who she is
Well let me tell you about my brother
A lost little boy, hung out with all the wrong people all the time saying "they were good at heart" (no they were scumbags)
We tried everything and he chose to continue this lifestyle
He is now dying due to those choices
My mama always explained it to me that "Water seeks it's own level"
Let me answer your questions
1) Maybe, depends on how impaired they are (wet brain) when sober
2) NO
3) Once you make it clear you won't take any BS and you won't give them a free ride you will never see/hear from them. (didn't hear from brother for 10 plus years)
4) Depends on a lot of variables but an active alcoholic will be anything they THINK YOU WANT THEM TO BE in order to keep the status quo.
Run for you life - NOW
This is who she is
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
I was living with an alcoholic lady who told me all her innermost secrets. Telling me that I was the first one she ever told them to.
this is called Setting the Hook.
Two weeks later, she pleaded with me to be hers. She said she was sorry and would spend the rest of her life making it up to me.
this is called Reeling you In
As mentioned, she pushed me away and pulled me back, with the explanation that I was the person she always wanted but too scared to be with.
Sombody Get the Net!!!
1 When people say alcoholics are master manipulators, do they lie about feelings when they are sober?
If they are still drinking, they aren't ever sober enough to really KNOW what they feel.
2. Are they ever truly ever sober? (drinks to excess daily)
Nope. SOBER means not drinking ever.
3. Do they ever just walk away forever, or will they try to keep their claws in a person?
Claws in especially if you've been a good little enabler. ( bought her stuff (groceries, concerts etc.) which allowed her to have money for liquor).
4. Do alcoholics really have a personality? Meaning, are they really the person they project to you? Or are they just allowing you to see the person they want you to see to keep you.
I don't think ALL alcoholics are deceptive in showing you who they are, but it's easy to tell when you've been played. and you my dear have been PLAYED.
But I am not sure who the person I was in love with.
It's so weird.
Did that person ever really exist?
from what you have described of her, full time drinker with lack of discretion, playing the come here go away game and now turning on you with hostility, i'd say she existed in your head. but not in reality.
this is called Setting the Hook.
Two weeks later, she pleaded with me to be hers. She said she was sorry and would spend the rest of her life making it up to me.
this is called Reeling you In
As mentioned, she pushed me away and pulled me back, with the explanation that I was the person she always wanted but too scared to be with.
Sombody Get the Net!!!
1 When people say alcoholics are master manipulators, do they lie about feelings when they are sober?
If they are still drinking, they aren't ever sober enough to really KNOW what they feel.
2. Are they ever truly ever sober? (drinks to excess daily)
Nope. SOBER means not drinking ever.
3. Do they ever just walk away forever, or will they try to keep their claws in a person?
Claws in especially if you've been a good little enabler. ( bought her stuff (groceries, concerts etc.) which allowed her to have money for liquor).
4. Do alcoholics really have a personality? Meaning, are they really the person they project to you? Or are they just allowing you to see the person they want you to see to keep you.
I don't think ALL alcoholics are deceptive in showing you who they are, but it's easy to tell when you've been played. and you my dear have been PLAYED.
But I am not sure who the person I was in love with.
It's so weird.
Did that person ever really exist?
from what you have described of her, full time drinker with lack of discretion, playing the come here go away game and now turning on you with hostility, i'd say she existed in your head. but not in reality.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Mich
Posts: 9
Thank you all for your responses.
This was particular helpful:
"You did not abandon a helpless child. You left a grown woman to live her own life and make her own choices."
I know I should run.
But the high were so high.
The lows are so low.
Hence the header..."Not my ...(Insert their name here)
Interesting about the mackinac comment.
This was particular helpful:
"You did not abandon a helpless child. You left a grown woman to live her own life and make her own choices."
I know I should run.
But the high were so high.
The lows are so low.
Hence the header..."Not my ...(Insert their name here)
Interesting about the mackinac comment.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
From the profile, Alcohol was only a symptom.
Sounds like a variation of "Borderline."
aka, Borderline Personality Disorder, a severe Mental Illness.
Not too unusual for Long Term A's to have Mental Health issues.
You may find some useful info here >>>
Borderline Personality Disorder - Support group for families and relationship partners
Sounds like a variation of "Borderline."
aka, Borderline Personality Disorder, a severe Mental Illness.
Not too unusual for Long Term A's to have Mental Health issues.
You may find some useful info here >>>
Borderline Personality Disorder - Support group for families and relationship partners
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
If you want the more clinical, analytical, 10,000 word version it is here.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...er-thread.html
But really all you need is one word.
GO.
This truly you did NOT Cause it, Cannot Control it, and Cannot Cure it.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...er-thread.html
But really all you need is one word.
GO.
This truly you did NOT Cause it, Cannot Control it, and Cannot Cure it.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 145
Hi Lostinwildernes,
Thanks for sharing.
1. When people say alcoholics are master manipulators, do they lie about feelings when they are sober?
I believe that alcoholics are master manipulators, though I don't believe they realize that's what they are doing. It comes with the territory. The addiction makes them do whatever it takes to get the result they want. It's a disease. I believe when they are vulnerable and express feelings, that they are, in fact, true. At least that was my experience. I did and still do believe that my xabf wants a better life. I believed him when he said he wanted to get his degree, have a steady job, and settle down, but then the disease kicks in and he gives in to the temptation. It felt like he had a lot of inner struggling, battling the two perspectives.
2. Are they ever truly ever sober? (drinks to excess daily)
This is a tough question. I'm honestly not sure. On one hand, I feel they are sober when they are literally sober, but sobriety to me has to include more than physically not drinking, but actively going to AA, or having a bigger reason not to drink (vs. not drinking because they are at work). From my experiences of attending AA with my ex, I believe true sobriety (from the people I met in there) comes from a lot of introspection and self evaluation. They people who seemed to function very normally and who I would have never guess were alcoholics by any stretch of the imagination not only avoided drinking alcohol, but worked on themselves through the steps in AA daily. Sobriety, to me, means sobriety physically as well as mentally and emotionally.
3. Do they ever just walk away forever, or will they try to keep their claws in a person?
This is an interesting question. I'd point out that YOU have the power to walk away forever and keep the claws out. From the phrasing of the question, it sounds like we (the family members dealing with alcoholics) have no power and after a long time of struggling with it, I've learned that this is, in fact, not true. We DO have the power to walk away. They can't have power if we don't give it to them.
4. Do alcoholics really have a personality? Meaning, are they really the person they project to you? Or are they just allowing you to see the person they want you to see to keep you.
I think what you see - the good and the bad - is them. I remember I used to wait around when my ex was going through his downs and kept hoping the person I knew would come back and every now and then he did, but that didn't change who he was. People are who they are, through good and bad. The good is them and the bad is them. We can't just like the good and ignore the bad. That is not fair to us and that excuses their behaviors. We either accept people for who they are through and through or we don't.
If you want to wait, then wait and accept that this is what it is, but remember that YOU have the power to walk away and never let them back into your life. Somewhere in the midst of these toxic relationships, it is easy to lose ourselves and lose our sense of control. We forget that we control what and who we allow in our lives. For example, that annoying coworker? Do you have out with them outside of work? No. You choose not to.
I waited and waited for a long time and wasted a lot of time. Waiting is not any kind of relationship. Ask yourself, if you met this person at their worst, would you jump at the opportunity to be with them?
Take care.
Thanks for sharing.
1. When people say alcoholics are master manipulators, do they lie about feelings when they are sober?
I believe that alcoholics are master manipulators, though I don't believe they realize that's what they are doing. It comes with the territory. The addiction makes them do whatever it takes to get the result they want. It's a disease. I believe when they are vulnerable and express feelings, that they are, in fact, true. At least that was my experience. I did and still do believe that my xabf wants a better life. I believed him when he said he wanted to get his degree, have a steady job, and settle down, but then the disease kicks in and he gives in to the temptation. It felt like he had a lot of inner struggling, battling the two perspectives.
2. Are they ever truly ever sober? (drinks to excess daily)
This is a tough question. I'm honestly not sure. On one hand, I feel they are sober when they are literally sober, but sobriety to me has to include more than physically not drinking, but actively going to AA, or having a bigger reason not to drink (vs. not drinking because they are at work). From my experiences of attending AA with my ex, I believe true sobriety (from the people I met in there) comes from a lot of introspection and self evaluation. They people who seemed to function very normally and who I would have never guess were alcoholics by any stretch of the imagination not only avoided drinking alcohol, but worked on themselves through the steps in AA daily. Sobriety, to me, means sobriety physically as well as mentally and emotionally.
3. Do they ever just walk away forever, or will they try to keep their claws in a person?
This is an interesting question. I'd point out that YOU have the power to walk away forever and keep the claws out. From the phrasing of the question, it sounds like we (the family members dealing with alcoholics) have no power and after a long time of struggling with it, I've learned that this is, in fact, not true. We DO have the power to walk away. They can't have power if we don't give it to them.
4. Do alcoholics really have a personality? Meaning, are they really the person they project to you? Or are they just allowing you to see the person they want you to see to keep you.
I think what you see - the good and the bad - is them. I remember I used to wait around when my ex was going through his downs and kept hoping the person I knew would come back and every now and then he did, but that didn't change who he was. People are who they are, through good and bad. The good is them and the bad is them. We can't just like the good and ignore the bad. That is not fair to us and that excuses their behaviors. We either accept people for who they are through and through or we don't.
If you want to wait, then wait and accept that this is what it is, but remember that YOU have the power to walk away and never let them back into your life. Somewhere in the midst of these toxic relationships, it is easy to lose ourselves and lose our sense of control. We forget that we control what and who we allow in our lives. For example, that annoying coworker? Do you have out with them outside of work? No. You choose not to.
I waited and waited for a long time and wasted a lot of time. Waiting is not any kind of relationship. Ask yourself, if you met this person at their worst, would you jump at the opportunity to be with them?
Take care.
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