contract & manipulation
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: South Central USA
Posts: 33
contract & manipulation
My AD, wants us to sign a recovery contract. We took the keys to all our vehicles away from her..Thursday evening, due to her drinking and driving, which we warned her we would do. She went to the hospital to detox on Friday evening, and was still at bac 0.15. She was released yesterday. Today she was asking for the keys to go to the lake, which she said she would take her little brother (who is 13) because he would tattle on her if she bought a bottle. My husband and I both said no.
Then she is wanting us to sign this contract, where for 20 days she goes without a car, and the next 20 days, we let her drive, but limited and without cash, or something like that. But I told her I was thinking 30 days without a car. Because I almost called the cops Thurs and if she had not got home before I got the tag number I would have. She would have lost her license for 90 days at least. But when I mentioned 30 days, she said well most addicts would just say to heck with it and walk away. She is so good at trying to manipulate me. Is that normal for addicts to manipulate? Has anyone else tried a recovery contract?
Then she is wanting us to sign this contract, where for 20 days she goes without a car, and the next 20 days, we let her drive, but limited and without cash, or something like that. But I told her I was thinking 30 days without a car. Because I almost called the cops Thurs and if she had not got home before I got the tag number I would have. She would have lost her license for 90 days at least. But when I mentioned 30 days, she said well most addicts would just say to heck with it and walk away. She is so good at trying to manipulate me. Is that normal for addicts to manipulate? Has anyone else tried a recovery contract?
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
Wow - I don't have experience with this with a daughter but wanted to post.
Do addicts manipulate? That would be a big fat YES!
I'm wondering how old your AD is for one thing.
How about a contract that says she won't drive a vehicle while drunk or high and if she does you call the police?
Do addicts manipulate? That would be a big fat YES!
I'm wondering how old your AD is for one thing.
How about a contract that says she won't drive a vehicle while drunk or high and if she does you call the police?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
Manipulation is par for the course with an addict.
I wouldn't fall for it.
If she wants a contract, you draw it up. I might start it with "as long as you stay sober, you may live in our house and eat our food." Sorry, that comes across harsher than I meant it to, but I think she may need to understand that you are already doing more than you are obligated to do for her.
I wouldn't fall for it.
If she wants a contract, you draw it up. I might start it with "as long as you stay sober, you may live in our house and eat our food." Sorry, that comes across harsher than I meant it to, but I think she may need to understand that you are already doing more than you are obligated to do for her.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
Ok, I googled recovery contract, and an old SR thread popped up. A recovery contract is a contract she should be making with herself in order to stay sober. The example given was:
1. I will set the alarm for x time every day to get up for work.
2. I will attend x meetings per week.
3. I will find a sponsor within x amount of time.
4. I will perform x, y, z household chores.
There was more, but the idea is pretty clear, and not one of the items was what someone else needed to do for the person in recovery.
I think this is a manipulation from her and that she really doesn't understand what a recovery contract is. It is a tool she should be using to keep herself focused on recovery, not a piece of paper that says if she behaves herself for 20 days you guys give her the car keys back. What is she, 16?
Have you been to Alanon yet? I've read through your old threads. You and your husband would REALLY benefit from a meeting. You will get to know lots of people who have dealt with similar situations with their adult children.
1. I will set the alarm for x time every day to get up for work.
2. I will attend x meetings per week.
3. I will find a sponsor within x amount of time.
4. I will perform x, y, z household chores.
There was more, but the idea is pretty clear, and not one of the items was what someone else needed to do for the person in recovery.
I think this is a manipulation from her and that she really doesn't understand what a recovery contract is. It is a tool she should be using to keep herself focused on recovery, not a piece of paper that says if she behaves herself for 20 days you guys give her the car keys back. What is she, 16?
Have you been to Alanon yet? I've read through your old threads. You and your husband would REALLY benefit from a meeting. You will get to know lots of people who have dealt with similar situations with their adult children.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Worried--manipulation and gigantic sense of ENTITLEMENT are par for the course. "I want what I want and I want it NOW".
Unfortunately, many pertinent details are not available (to us)---but, generally speaking...ownership of a car and driving are a priviledge--not an automatic entitlement.
It is important to consider that if your name is on the car--and she is in an accident--you can be held responsible for the consequences--like, if she were to strike someone with the car.
Is she in a vigorous program?--does she have a sponsor?---how long has she been sober---? What is her age?
To me...you would be walking on very thin ice to let her use your cars or to trust a contract with her at this point.
She will have to earn your trust by her actions, (not words), consistently, over a loong period of time.
Of course, that is only my reaction--I am not in your shoes and I don't know all the details.
dandylion
Unfortunately, many pertinent details are not available (to us)---but, generally speaking...ownership of a car and driving are a priviledge--not an automatic entitlement.
It is important to consider that if your name is on the car--and she is in an accident--you can be held responsible for the consequences--like, if she were to strike someone with the car.
Is she in a vigorous program?--does she have a sponsor?---how long has she been sober---? What is her age?
To me...you would be walking on very thin ice to let her use your cars or to trust a contract with her at this point.
She will have to earn your trust by her actions, (not words), consistently, over a loong period of time.
Of course, that is only my reaction--I am not in your shoes and I don't know all the details.
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
Has anyone else tried a recovery contract?
there's a big difference between a recovery contract and a "how soon can i use your car again?" contract. yes she is TRYING to manipulate you. it's YOUR car, you do not have to let her drive it again EVER. she's damn lucky to be living indoors! she was so horribly alcohol poisoned that she had to go the hospital!! and just go out YESTERDAY.
she does not get to call the shots. you are the adult. you are the parent. YOU are the shot caller here. if she does not like YOUR terms, fine. i think 30 days is way too soon, but that's just me.
here's one of the best articles i've seen on RECOVERY CONTRACTS by the way....and according to this article, she already violated the contract.
The RETURN TO HOME CONTRACT
May 20, 2011
When our children first complete some level of new sobriety (Whether it be after a completion of jail sentence, halfway home stay, etc ) there arises the inevitable question.
Do we let our newly sober children return to our homes or not?
As parents, we have loved the peace while they were gone and don’t wish to lose it. Loving the peace and quiet when they are gone is normal and should not make us feel guilty. We remember the chaos precipitated by their drugging when they last lived at home and we shudder. We want them home yet we love our drug free tranquility. To preserve the our new found peace parents often pen the “RETURN TO HOME CONTRACT”
Parents with children in early recovery become self appointed “master legal experts” and devise contracts that would put many of the great legal minds in this country to shame. Complexity would be an understatement for some of the classic contracts I have seen. Pages and pages of rules and regulations for living at home..lights out, no Wii after 11pm, job, shoes polished, no Little Wayne music, no M&Ms in bed, no Red Bull, no this, no that. Do not pass Go. The contract is daunting!
The parents, trying to prevent their child’s relapse, become hung up on devising the flawless masterpiece. A masterpiece contract that becomes so complex it is unenforcible.
So many rules and conditions are included, that the gray area of addiction inevitably wins out, as it slowly wears the family down…I always think that the Addiction Monster understands two colors…Black and White…when gray seeps in so does the chaos…(I’ll pass on the cheesy 50 shades of gray comment I could include)
Many Parent Contracts state -
You Must attend meetings! – Well I ponder … how many? how long ? what if Im sick ? What if the car breaks down do I toss the kid..What if the car breakdown is a lie… etc etc
You must get a job? – full time? parttime? how many hours? what if i cant get there? Unemployment is soaring…need I go on?
After years of broken promises, relapses, lies, manipulation and utter chaos….Here is the contract I use.
It reads:
There will be no substance use in my home.
If rule is broken you must seek a new living facility within X amount of days.
This is a simple yet enforceable contract. If your child is truly sober…the rest tends to fall right into place.
Works in our home…
peace and strength!
there's a big difference between a recovery contract and a "how soon can i use your car again?" contract. yes she is TRYING to manipulate you. it's YOUR car, you do not have to let her drive it again EVER. she's damn lucky to be living indoors! she was so horribly alcohol poisoned that she had to go the hospital!! and just go out YESTERDAY.
she does not get to call the shots. you are the adult. you are the parent. YOU are the shot caller here. if she does not like YOUR terms, fine. i think 30 days is way too soon, but that's just me.
here's one of the best articles i've seen on RECOVERY CONTRACTS by the way....and according to this article, she already violated the contract.
The RETURN TO HOME CONTRACT
May 20, 2011
When our children first complete some level of new sobriety (Whether it be after a completion of jail sentence, halfway home stay, etc ) there arises the inevitable question.
Do we let our newly sober children return to our homes or not?
As parents, we have loved the peace while they were gone and don’t wish to lose it. Loving the peace and quiet when they are gone is normal and should not make us feel guilty. We remember the chaos precipitated by their drugging when they last lived at home and we shudder. We want them home yet we love our drug free tranquility. To preserve the our new found peace parents often pen the “RETURN TO HOME CONTRACT”
Parents with children in early recovery become self appointed “master legal experts” and devise contracts that would put many of the great legal minds in this country to shame. Complexity would be an understatement for some of the classic contracts I have seen. Pages and pages of rules and regulations for living at home..lights out, no Wii after 11pm, job, shoes polished, no Little Wayne music, no M&Ms in bed, no Red Bull, no this, no that. Do not pass Go. The contract is daunting!
The parents, trying to prevent their child’s relapse, become hung up on devising the flawless masterpiece. A masterpiece contract that becomes so complex it is unenforcible.
So many rules and conditions are included, that the gray area of addiction inevitably wins out, as it slowly wears the family down…I always think that the Addiction Monster understands two colors…Black and White…when gray seeps in so does the chaos…(I’ll pass on the cheesy 50 shades of gray comment I could include)
Many Parent Contracts state -
You Must attend meetings! – Well I ponder … how many? how long ? what if Im sick ? What if the car breaks down do I toss the kid..What if the car breakdown is a lie… etc etc
You must get a job? – full time? parttime? how many hours? what if i cant get there? Unemployment is soaring…need I go on?
After years of broken promises, relapses, lies, manipulation and utter chaos….Here is the contract I use.
It reads:
There will be no substance use in my home.
If rule is broken you must seek a new living facility within X amount of days.
This is a simple yet enforceable contract. If your child is truly sober…the rest tends to fall right into place.
Works in our home…
peace and strength!
- if I were a user, I'd go outside, get high, come back in and say, "I didn't use in the house!"
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,424
I wouldn't give her the use of the car again, and I like Anvil's contract.
Maybe add this addendum to clear up bimini's loophole:
No substance use in or out of the home.
She isn't the one calling the shots--your strength now can make all the difference
to your peace of mind and perhaps her getting serious about recovery.
Maybe add this addendum to clear up bimini's loophole:
No substance use in or out of the home.
She isn't the one calling the shots--your strength now can make all the difference
to your peace of mind and perhaps her getting serious about recovery.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 199
My son is a recovering alcoholic (a year and a half sober). He took a semester off of college and lived with us when he got out of the hospital. We had no recovery contract. He was 22 at the time, and I think the age of your child at the time of the recovery has a lot to do with how your family deals with it. Out son knew that if he started drinking again he either went to rehab or he was on his own and out of our home. We tried our best to show him that we believed in him and his recovery and my counselor told us that we needed to show him that we trusted him (even if we didn't). That's what we did. It wasn't easy, but we did it. I didn't ask him where he'd been when he came in, and I rarely mentioned his recovery unless he brought it up. I never asked about his AA meetings. After 3 months he decided to go back to college to live for his spring semester. His Dr., AA sponsor, and counselor all agreed that he should go. It was the hardest ting I ever had to do. Before he left he looked at me and said, "Mom, you can't control whether I drink or not. I can get alcohol at the store down the street". He left and is still sober. I believe that's because we left the responsibility of his sobriety/recovery on him and stepped away from it. he knows he's on his own and will pay the consequences on his own if he messes up. He finished his college degree and is now getting ready to start grad school. I will say that if he had wanted to drive his sister in a car so soon in his recovery I would've told him no and explained why not. No car after a DUI for a long time if the car belonged to me.
. I have to say I was impressed!
pray for strength
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: New England
Posts: 2,414
My votes are:
'No' to the car keys. 'No' to her contract. 'No' to taking any responsibility for the decisions she makes, good or bad. Then you are free to love your daughter fully for all those good and bad decisions. Your daughter remains free to make (good and bad) decisions, take responsibility, as well as the consequences. No matter what decisions she makes, or her current age, she must grow up.
Bicycle, public transportation, her decisions for mobility, her consequences. Less confusion. 'Yes' to taking your daughter to lunch, advising and guiding her, and expressing how much you love her.
I'm a grown daughter myself, recovering addict, mother to 2 little girls and I adore my mother. If I drove drunk and killed someone (or any of the zillion permutations and consequences) my mother would live the rest of her days loving me fully but never taking the responsibility that is rightfully all mine. This certainty I now possess is a gift she has given me.
'No' to the car keys. 'No' to her contract. 'No' to taking any responsibility for the decisions she makes, good or bad. Then you are free to love your daughter fully for all those good and bad decisions. Your daughter remains free to make (good and bad) decisions, take responsibility, as well as the consequences. No matter what decisions she makes, or her current age, she must grow up.
Bicycle, public transportation, her decisions for mobility, her consequences. Less confusion. 'Yes' to taking your daughter to lunch, advising and guiding her, and expressing how much you love her.
I'm a grown daughter myself, recovering addict, mother to 2 little girls and I adore my mother. If I drove drunk and killed someone (or any of the zillion permutations and consequences) my mother would live the rest of her days loving me fully but never taking the responsibility that is rightfully all mine. This certainty I now possess is a gift she has given me.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
My recovery contract would state no to a car - ever.
It would also state NO to taking your 13 year old brother anywhere as your beard. LOL I mean I appreciate the effort of creativity on her part, but really? 13 year olds should be relaxed and having fun in the summer not used to help sister get her way. Wouldn't trust her anyway.
My contract would be short. "You drink, You're done".
It would also state NO to taking your 13 year old brother anywhere as your beard. LOL I mean I appreciate the effort of creativity on her part, but really? 13 year olds should be relaxed and having fun in the summer not used to help sister get her way. Wouldn't trust her anyway.
My contract would be short. "You drink, You're done".
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