Chicory - I read through some of your earlier posts. In your very first post you mentioned your son had been diagnosed as Bi Polar II. Later another Pdoc diagnosed him with the 'situational depression'.

After reading through some of your earlier posts I see some things familiar as my husband is also Bi Polar II. You mentioned in one post that you did not think your son was Bi Polar. Bi Polar II is a very elusive mental illness that often mimics other mental illnesses specifically depression. Some signs to look for are insomnia, irritability, mood swings (which can vary in length from hourly to daily to weekly), flying suddenly from one idea to the next, inability to focus,anxiety, depression.

My husband was misdiagnosed for 10 years - "clinically depressed". He was put on every anti depressant known. We got lucky in getting a correct diagnosis and its a long story how it happened. The neuropsychiatrist that diagnosed him did so in 10 minutes. Once he was put on the meds and reached his correct dosage the curtains opened and life took a 180.

I don't know if your son is BP II, but maybe he is. Without the proper meds its a very difficult life.

Wishing you the best and will say prayers for you both this evening.

Chicory---I absolutely get how hard this is to your natural maternal sensibilities--but just keep telling yourself that this is to give a better quality of life for both of you. You are doing this to improve his life--because you do love him.

I do believe that there is help out there.....it is a matter of finding it!!

There are so many other mothers who have walked in your shoes. You are not alone!!

dandylion

Ahhhh chic ~ I'm so sorry I didn't see this yesterday.

I hear everyone ~ Fandy makes complete sense.
But I also hear the fear inside of you that tells you that none of these things will work.

So, how about a compromise. No more fixing. It is what it is. How about a straight deal with him to get a part time job so that he can stay living in your house. That's it. And of course no getting drunk and locking cats out at night etc, but otherwise....maybe it's time to let go. You need to keep him safe, so he stays with you. There have to be conditions.

And then, maybe a new beginning? Maybe a new chance for you to have some peace at home.
I am rambling....I just think that it may be time to let him be, and make the best of it for all of you. Forgive me if I am wrong.

I love you,

V xx

I did not even know that there was a field of Neuro Psychiatry, but I hope you can check through this and an appointment might help guide you the right way and find some balance for both him and you. there is no shame in not having the correct brain chemicals, sometimes you need help.

My mother could have written your post, chicory. I had to do a double take to make sure my mother wasn't on SR.
My brother is on meds, although I don't know what meds. It was serious enough he was having delusions of grandeur, and paranoia.

The funny thing, at least to me, was the time I visited and he said to me aside--
"She's driving me nuts! She nags all the time! I have to get a job!"

And then, after years of watching tv and the like, he went out and got a job. That was close to a year ago, after having been fired from his last 3 jobs in the two decades past. He's held onto it for a year and they love him.

My thought is this--could you be making it all too easy and comfortable for him?

He was diagnosed bi-polar 2, in fifteen minutes. She wrote a script for hard hitting drugs, and he and I discussed it. I happen to know that he was seeking something for his nerves...so he answered all the questions the way he thought it would get him a script for nerve pills. opiates. I went with him for that appt. and I remember how he answered her... I had to hold my tongue,,, he was 39 years old, the doc would not want me answering.

then we went again, for a longer appt, which he would not let me sit in on. It lasted 1&1/2 hours. of course, he did not tell them how much he drank, or that he liked pills. nor did he admit to why he lost jobs...she did not have much choice but to diagnose him depressed. by that time , he tried another set of answers. he was pizzed that no one offered him any zanax or what ever the popular drugs are.

I know that any agreement will not be honored by him. I could insist he work, but he will drink.. no doubt in my mind. so for now, I just dont even want him to work. it never works out. I do want him out, to have a life, to struggle and make it. but, until he gets some sort of help, that is not possible.

I wish it was.
I know that there is no shame in chemical imbalances, but he is proud, stubborn, and knows it all.....

Its just gonna get ugly, I think. but I cannot put him in the street. Tried that, and it was totally the wrong thing for him. He ended up getting arrested. He was so lonely, he would park his little junker and talk to people who were out in their yards, having parties.

He has a good heart. but his problems are hurting him more and more. He may respond to counselling , and I want to approach it that way. I think he would really appreciate another persons perspective and he would love to have hope in a productive life on his own.
I went to Nami classes on mental illness. He did not match the bipolar 2 description, but as you said, it can be tricky. So that may very well be .. but he does not have mood swings, nor is he impulsive. he has always stayed up nights, and has not trouble sleeping. so , I just dont see that, but I do see other things.

It may be too easy for him, true, but him working will only make things worse. he will not save, he will drink. he always has an excuse for why he isn't planning for a future.

Do you really think he was parking his little junker talking to people in their yards HAVING A PARTY because he was lonely?????????????

Chicory,

I, too, think the mental illness must be addressed first. If you go in with him there is no reason not to speak up. He will probably get mad at you but so what?

It is very hard to accept that one has a serious mental illness that impairs oneself to live a normal life. I know this first hand. It took me between 5 and 6 years to accept that I was not going to "turn a corner" with just another 3 months or so and be able to return to work. I did not want to apply for disability but the time came when I had to.

If I were to suggest something it would be to use all your power to get him into therapy. He has the insurance. many pdocs rush thro appmts and only prescribe. It sounds like he needs antidepressants at the least. No ethical dr will prescribe those anxiety meds based on one visit. Some antidepressants also help with anxiety, it just takes about 8 weeks for them to really thoroughly kick in. When suffering that 8 weeks can seem an eternity.

I'd also kick his butt to get his food stamps back. Tell him you require that at least as a contribution.

(((((hugs)))))

One thing that I think about a lot, in regards to our son, is that I cannot come from a place of anger towards him. My brother did do that - he told his addict daughter that she was done, over with, finished, no matter what... don't call me, don't talk to me, don't let me see you. I feel that his decision had much more to do with his anger towards her at how she turned out, and the horrible choices she made repeatedly, and the hurt she caused him (all of which was justifiable) rather than anything in mind for what might be right for her.

I am working today on detaching with love. I have NOT told my son that he can't call me anymore, or talk to me, or that he's finished with us, world without end amen. I think that *would* have much more to do with me and how I'm feeling, than with what's best for him.

Nobody will ever know how much my brother's decision concerning his daughter contributed to her death. I think, having known her since she was born, that she may well have been destined for an early grave. Nevertheless, of course her example haunts me. I spun off for a long, long time, thinking that this was a prime reason or even a sign that I needed to "be there" for my son no matter what, that we had to keep him alive and that trumped every other consideration.

This is a huge reason why I will continue to have contact with my son yet... I also know that I have to do the right thing for him today, which is to stay strong in helping him understand what has to be now in his life. I already know dozens of things that "won't work" with him (I think, Chicory, you have a big list like that, too) so now it's time for me to try something new and different, that just might.

Hugs and strength.....

Jane

I think having sense of purpose and a job will help him, not hurt him. However, your house, your rules...

No drinking, period. he can go long periods without alcohol, you can make this one of your boundaries.

I hope that you have some family support for yourself, he has gotten angry in the past and broken things in your house.

Yes, that and I am sure he wanted to socialize too- party-- He would share with strangers and he does not get that not everyone is so easy going.. He probably frightened people. I know my son. He was pretty down and lost at the time. And he was parked there, to 'live' for the time, until he felt he had to leave. it was an apartment complex. I provided him a phone, and would often tell him he needed to leave, that people were probably nervous about a strange guy living in a car. His thoughts were " why would anyone be afraid of him?" see, why I say he is naive ? He mostly stayed in Walmart parking lot. I would bring him water in the mornings, and coffee. it was the worst time of my life. I could elaborate, but it is so sad.

When people with mental disorders hit the streets, they do not always make it. Hence, the huge homeless population.

I know he parties, and I am aware of his faults. that is not anything I am blind to, but I am not here trying to figure out if he does these things, but how to help him, and how to get the courage myself, to do very hard things.

Chicory, the sadness and resignation in your posts is palpable. I am so very sorry for the situation you are in and cannot even begin to imagine the impossible options in front of you. Just want to send my support, encouragement, and hugs. I wish you strength, clarity, and peace with however you choose to proceed.

Chicory, my mother played a very patient waiting game. However she did insist he get an assessment and any necessary meds. She was not in the room the second time, although she definitely wanted to be. I don't know how many talks she had with him before he agreed, but definitely more than one.
He took the meds. I think she may have laid down the law on that one.

It took him a few years after getting meds to get motivated enough to go to work. 5 years of supporting him completely. Now he pays for most of his own things. He may never be truly independent, but as she is in her late 70's, she likes it that she doesn't live alone, and would probably have had to give up the house, so that is beneficial to both of them.

I so appreciate the thoughts and being able to talk about this. It gives me courage, and its good to not be 'hiding' something that is very big in my life.

I agree a job would be wonderful, but I do believe that he will sneak and drink, Fandy. He has never respected anyone's boundaries, if it comes between him and what he wants or feels he 'needs'. He can justify anything, in his mind,anyway.

Live, thank you for sharing that. I so need the encouragement. I need to come out from the shame and hiding. I will try to get him to go to counselling. I do think that would be very very powerful in his life.

I hate to involve family. Only have son's in law. one is in law enforcement. I dont want to cause my daughters shame and embarrassment. they would definitely be embarrassed. they want him to be ok, but they are so frustrated and feel it pretty hopeless. they have detached, which is best for them.

I will think of something. and yes, fandy, if he drinks a lot, he can get very violent if we argue. If we dont argue he is fine, but his temper goes crazy , and I am very codie so that is not a good mix, as I have angers from long ago, my A parents.

Thank you , everyone. this is helping. I have to keep my mind on it, or I will hide my head in the sand, out of fear of the discomfort . God knows, someone else could have done a better job with this!

many hugs, you are the best for being here for me, again.

Also my mother laid down the law on drinking. No drinking ever.

He did sneak drinking a few times when she wasn't around.

Kids know how far they can push a parent. They push a little farther than what is comfortable to the parent trying to increase their liberty. But they usually don't push too far when they know their comfortable life might be in jeopardy. It's a game to take another inch. My brother has a horrible temper but he has learned to calm it down because it is still my mother's house. I have no doubt the meds helped with that.

Well, I think it depends. Laying down the law and having the addict in your house abide by it... can be two different things. I'm not sure an addict can always set aside his or her need to use, just because it's putting other things at risk. In a way that's sort of the "just say no" approach; sometimes it works but not always. I have learned that you have to be ready, willing and able to follow through on the "or else" but that's pretty hard a lot of the time, and we shouldn't judge folks just because they haven't followed through. The rest of the world is already good enough at that!

Live, it takes real courage and wisdom to be honest with ourselves , to admit when we need help. I don't think he is that sort of person. He will need a big push. Someone other than me, telling him, that is for sure.

If you come from a dysfunctional home, my being aca, it would be more convincing to hear that you need help from a professional impartial source.


Quoted from your post Jane-

Jane, I am sorry about your niece. How tragic, and I would imagine nearly unbearable for your brother, I understand what you are saying. I only want to come from a place of love. because that is what motivates me.

Thank you all so much!

Chicory, I very much hope that you will follow up with the organizations that I identified. There are resources for help---AND HELP FOR YOU ALSO!!!!

I think you need the support of other parents who have adult children disabilities or similar problems. In the resource handbook that I mentioned---you will be able to find support groups.

You are not the first or only parent in OHIO who has had to face this kind of situation---you will draw strength and guidance and hope and courage from others.

I so hope that you will keep trying and not allow yourself to "give up". If you don't actively seek and ask--then all answers are "no" by default.

very sincerely,
dandylion

Thanks Dandylion,, you are so right. I copied the organizations down, and am going to look them up. Gotta start somewhere and yes, no action on my part would likely spell a lifetime of misery, his and mine.

I will keep trying. The support keeps me accountable, so I wont freeze up.

hugs

LOL...then, Chicory....keep posting us with your progress (or lack of). We will gladly sit on your as* if that is what you want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Remember that God helps those the most who help themselves. (an old addage).

dandylion