chicory

(((Fandy))) I am so full of anxiety today, and am trying to remember how not to do that!

I believe that somehow, I can get him to go. But feeling the pressure is making me very anxiety ridden this morning. I spoke with the therapists office this morning and she said that she could not find the paper-perhaps one of the therapists is going over it, considerating ... what? his insurance provider? his ss#? his middle name? I am having thoughts about this group. She is going to get back with me... good thing no one is suicidal!

my therapist said that there is a woman in her place, who is good at what he needs. I may just encourage him to go there. I may actually have a better chance at that, as he would feel more comfortable with a 'known and familiar' group, I think.
supposedly she is his age, or a bit older and attractive. that might not hurt...

anyway, I will get him there, somehow, some way. I guess it will happen as it should, as long as I am taking care of myself?
yes, send Sammy please, I need some puppy kisses!

Dandylion, I love to paint, although I am not much good, it is very theraputic to me* I do not have spell check here, theraputic is spelled wrong?
anyway,
I have not been inspired for a while. it takes me an average of five years to complete a picture..lol.
I love the old artists, though. Could walk and look at art for hours and hours and hours. I love Pinterest for that reason... you can see the art that everyone else loves too.

how about you, Dandylion. what sort of things do you like?

hugs

chicory

Thanks , FeelingGreat and Hopeful, I appreciate the positive reinforcements ! needed it today!

My therapist told me yesterday, at the end of our session, that she thinks I am brave. Which to me says that this is gonna be tough, and not such a quick fixeruper.

love and hugs

Fandy

You ARE brave and proactive...this is also therapeutic for you.

I know that anxiety from pushing him is stressful, but you will do this....do not *hope* that he is going to go...he is going, that is his ONLY option, you can state that clearly and calmly, it's your way or the highway.

i would also push the food stamp issue, the free cell phone issue and tell his father that you are taking action,.who knows, he may be in your corner after shirking responsibility too.

good thing you are on vacation but this is not fun.

chicory

vaca is in two weeks, Fandy, and as far as his dad- therapist thinks good old dad has a personality disorder too, mostly narcissist. I always knew he was a sob, but did not know there was a diagnosis type thing going on. No wonder he pizzes everyone off. he has always done just what suits his purpose. I cannot speak with him, as I may have to sick Sammy on him if he is nasty to me one. more. time.

yes, I am a nervous wreck today, for some reason. it does my IBS no favors...

hugs!

Fandy

Sammy dislikes annoying men and he is a bed hog...one of his favorite games is push all the pillows on the floor and grab the dirty clothes before I can safely get them into the laundry basket where they are safe from being chewed on.

still his father needs to pick up some of this responsibiity and worry. he must know that this behavior is not normal...as parents we want to know that our kids are doing OK if they are sick they need help. (even if he is a jackazz, he must KNOW that this type of mental behavior is not right for a 41 year old).

you are doing great, I'm sorry that your IBS is in full swing. can they give you something to help?

chicory

Fandy, trust me, his dad is very much controlled by his biotchy wife, who rules the roost. He only does what she wants, because then he can have what he wants.. material things. She embezzles so she can have what she wants...lol. And then has the nerve to call my son a loser. the most disgusting woman on the face of the earth.. has caused much hurt, to my kids and to her least favorite daughter, too. All because she knows it all.
She does occasionally take a break and goes to womens correctional for on the job theft. Of course , hubs did not have any idea she was doing this..yeah, right. while they have new cars, boats, vacations, best of clothing for her favorite childs children..etc.

every ring he has found metal detecting she has jammed on her fat little fingers... afraid he might give one to his daughters. she looks ridiculous.

If I speak to the dad, she reads his mail and will chime in to me,, calling my son a loser, and all sorts of ugly things. mentally ill, etc. said over her dead body would he come there to make her 'hubby' life miserable.

I will not waste another word on the dad. He is a selfish sob. I would however, love to sic you on the shrewwife, thoughlol

it will be ok. i have meds for the ibs, but it makes me irritable when I don't take it. I take as needed. it is a bit addictive. bentyl.

love and hugs! off to work.. ugh!

dandylion

chicory.....do you think that this new "glitch" with the papers has shaken you up a bit?

I agree with you that going with the "known entity" if that is possible.

I sure can relate about your son's father. My children's father is the same. I have no contact with him, at all, for many years. A complete narcissistic sob.

You ask what sort of things do I like. LOL..I always have found this a hard question to answer, for myself. I think that because I didn't grow up in a place and time where girls had much opportunity for sports or "lessons" (wealthy girls might have had piano lessons). I grew up working hard (on grandmother's farm) and later, in the city--I still held jobs in addition to going to school (babysitting; nanny; domestic helper).
I was always frustrated that I didn't have a glamorous list of hobbies or accomplishments to put on forms.
My parents were very, very strict..so school was my major outlet. I was only allowed to do things that were directly school or work related.
In Jr. High and high school I worked hard---science fairs, debate team and public speaking competitions, etc. and got 2 scholarships to go on to higher education----I never could fill out those damn forms that asked for "interests and skills".

I felt like all hat and no cattle.

My interests have always gone to living things. I think my early years in the deep mountain farm is probably responsible for this. I was very much a "Little House on the Prarie" kind of life. I have always been interested and drawn to working with people. Also. I am drawn to animals and nature.

In my adult life, I got to enjoy a lot of activities that I couldn't do earlier. Community activitism; community theater; women's soccer team; and pleasure activities--like going to rock concerts and other performances....traveling a bit.....

Probably, my favorite thing to do is to do gardening--I love being with plants and flowers. And animals...I have always had rescue animals. I enjoy making "something out of nothing"...my kids have called me a dumpster diver.
Like you, I enjoy art..but really don't have any fine art skills (myself). But, I can enjoy it!! I love the very old masters, also. But, my favorite is Andrew Wyeth even though he is a modern American...LOL.
I love being out in nature. My husband (second, sweet one) and I spent a lot of time camping--and I took the kids a lot.
I feel the most content when I am out in nature.
I read a lot and study (necessary for my work)....I love nature shows and history/anthropology shows ...... I am just curious about the whole human experience..from A to Z. (I love comedy most of all, though).

In reality..I guess I can enjoy myself doing practically anything.(as long as it is not an exercise class...ugh). Just give me a stick or a box of crayons.......
As a child, we had to learn to entertain ourselves!

So, there...Chicory....here is a very long winded response to your simple question!!!!!!!!! LOL!
You have asked me one of the most difficult things I am asked....LOl.

dandylion

Fandy

ooooohhhhh I CCCC.....

perhaps she needs to experience what it means to be prosecuted for theft at work, lose her pension...more than probation, real jail time...what a vile person.

may she experience alopecia all over...and a vicious sunburn along with a big fungi on all of her moist areas, a big fatty gut and loose teeth with no dental insurance....lots of wrinkles too.

Lenina

Ooowwww, our Fandy knows how to lay curse! LOL.

Love from Lenina

hopeful4

Too funny! Chic, im so sick of these crutches ive been itching to give someone a good smack with one, i have found a candidate!!!

XXX



QUOTE=Fandy;4785815]ooooohhhhh I CCCC.....

perhaps she needs to experience what it means to be prosecuted for theft at work, lose her pension...more than probation, real jail time...what a vile person.

may she experience alopecia all over...and a vicious sunburn along with a big fungi on all of her moist areas, a big fatty gut and loose teeth with no dental insurance....lots of wrinkles too.[/QUOTE]

chicory

Hopeful, why are you on crutches? Ouch! and please, if you see her, give her a whack on the back of her head, and his as well(his will be up her behind)lol

Dandylion... I think you did very well with your answer, and I am impressed by it! You are an earthy person and well rounded in my book. I love nature, science, and Wyeth too. Gardening is most satisfying, and if I could have anything I wanted, it would be a place in the mountains, just simple but with a view of sunrise and sunset, and a spot to garden.

how nice you got to camp a lot. its very calming, I think. and you got scholarships for college-thats pretty awesome.
I think your childhood was what I would want for my children. it helps to learn how to work hard, and how to grow things, and I think with our food supply problems, more people should grow their own foods. and share You did public speaking,, awesome, I was too shy. and you must have some good brains in there! I think your accomplishments are impressive.

I used to feel so badly that my kids did not get to learn all the 'socially impressive' sorts of things-dance, gymnastics, etc. I did not do those either... it was tough enough to just get to school..lol.


yesterday son called work. the therapists office called here.. and spoke with him about the paperwork. said they dont accept his insurance, which is odd, because their online site says they do. He said some other things, mostly that he was insulted by all this.

I told him about my office, he said, no , no one YOU go to... I told him that they would respect his privacy, it was mandated by law to do so. I am going to try to get him in there, as I think the other place is a cluster screw up. this lady who called, knew I was trying to do this in a sensitive way, but obviously they dont have any reason not to talk to him about it. Perhaps she could tell he was not willing and was opting out for him, by telling him they don't accept ACA insurance. obamacare.

anyway. off to work today. I appreciate all the help. I can feel you all walking with me. where else can you get a multitude of friends to help? face to face, it would be impossible to get all of this in one days time!

hugs to all.

Hawkeye13

Remind me never to pizz you off Fandy.

You one tough bee-ach

dandylion

chicory....Bummer!...about the insurance and red tape issues. It seems a fact of life, these days that expecting ANYTHING to be seamless, when it comes to healthcare, is just a dream. Being in the field, myself, I am saddened to see what it has come to. Mental health sucks the most rocks, in my opinion. I climb on my soapbox quite often, about this.

At least he has some insurance, though. This just means that you will have to turn over more rocks. He might still go to the person out of your therapist's practice....just because he has voiced resistance doesn't seal the deal.

To be perfectly realistic---who likes to be told that they need mental health services?
We have come a long way--but our culture has a mind set on anything mental health...and, I think that the majority of people still consider that it is a "label" that stigmatizes them and sets them apart. I don't think your son is any different than most other people in this regard. I also think that males may be more resistant than females, in general.
Unless they have had some experience--most people don't know how this "stuff" works.
Since you are his mother--and, you all have been at odds over this---it is understandable, to me, that he might be suspicious of anyone connected to his mother's "shrink".
I think you responded well to him about this. Patience and a calm approach is probably your best tool, right now.
Personally, I would lean and rely on your therapist to help you unravel this particular wad of string. She has to deal with this kind of stuff all the time...so she must know where the rocks are. Better than you, at least.

It is also likely that whoever sees him first will end up referring him to specific other services, anyway. It is a diagnosis of some kind that is such an essential first step. If your son came to understand this fact--perhaps he would feel less threatened.
I do expect him to be a Grumpy Pants all the way there....until he gets connected to someone else outside of his relationship with you. He will see them as being on "his side"......just as your therapist is on "your side".

Remember that there is still another tier of help above this one that is there for help if this one doesn't satisfy the bill. It is a matter of being patient and tenacious. If he thinks he can abort this by just giving resistance....he is going to be surprised. LOL!!

On another note...I share your same fantasy of the cabin in the woods with a garden on the side. A real anxiety buster. There is something about the rythms of nature that is very soothing to the soul.

I appreciate your kind words. Actually, I could have used a few words, like "A little bit country;a little bit rock-and-roll". OR "Country Mouse;city mouse".
I think I am an example of the fact that help sometimes comes from outside of the family of origin, and, sometimes comes from unexpected places.
I never did apply for scholarships...but, a teacher who notices me came and offered me a scholarship (that he knew about). Another one came from a woman that I worked for as a nanny during my high-school summers. (I actually lied about my age to get the job--I was only 15!!!...my bad). She belonged to a sorority that gave yearly scholarships to a "deserving female student in need". She submitted me without my knowledge. And, I got it.
There was also the 3rd. grade teacher who took me to the public library to get my first library card.---that opened my world to books!! I was allowed to go to the l ibrary every Saturday morning (by myself) to see puppet shows and turn my books in for new ones.
I had a science teacher who I worshiped--I did a science project each year just so that I could travel with her to the competitions. Remember that school and work were my only outlets. I was allowed to walk to church, if I wanted to go. I went only because there was a small group of young people, my age.LOL
I had wonderful teachers--I owe a lot to them---IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS OF WEST VIRGINIA!!!!!!!!!

Chicory, I think my point is that..yes, we do have to work hard...but, we ALL have to lean on others at one time or another. I could never be where I am without standing on the shoulders of others---including my hardworking grandmother.

I think I should stop for now...lest I rewrite "The Winds of War"...LOL.

dandylion

chicory

I am going to try to get him in to see the woman my therapist recommended, in her practice. dual diagnosis is her specialty, I think she said.

I feel weird, not doing anything towards my goal today. I had to cancel my next week appt, because of my work week is changed, due to me taking vacation. left her a message, so we can reschedule and talk about how to get him into see someone there.

It feels like I am losing ground, if I am not always in my armor. just a day of rest, I will call it.

I have been thinking , Dandylion, about your question " Have I thought about what sort of things I would be doing if he was not living here'- I think that was how you put it.

When I imagine it, I feel this wonderful free feeling, almost like I come alive... so I guess better times are ahead. I have to believe that!

Fandy

chic, in all fairness, I can see that he would feel more trapped if he thought you were going to know his interaction with his own doctor.
Be sure to drive home the point that it is a different doctor of his own who will not trade information, maybe just say that the offices are together but they each treat "different sub specialties" of patients.

you could even go so far as to say your own therapist "specializes in older women" (who want to rip their adult children's head off at the neck for living with them).

I think we tend to resist change if we are afraid....but moving forward you have gained so much.

chicory

You are so right, Fandy. I resisted change, due to fear. I think I am learning how to work on that thanks to you and the others here, who have been so kind, and gently pushing me forward. I couldn't see a path,,, I felt like i was stepping off a cliff. I have learned some things.

I almost hesitate to write this... today my son actually mentioned going to see someone. We were talking about stuff... jobs, computer stuff, and so on. dont even remember, but it was casual and friendly.

He said something about Maybe it being a good idea to talk to someone... perhaps its a touch of ADD or hyperactivity, and maybe they will give him ritalin and send him on his way. .. that he did not really think it is, and does not really think its anxiety.. he spoke as if he has been doing some research on possibilities.

anyway, He seemed calm, and as if he was offering to go. I told him that the woman that my therapist suggested is in the same practice , but that they cannot share your personal information, by law. And that this lady is around his age, attractive and smart, and that she seems quite dedicated. He asked if they take his insurance, and I told him that they do.

I of course am suspect of this. I wondered if he was hoping to abuse ritalin... but I know that he hates anything that slows him down, and besides, she would not prescribe it unless he needed it. so no worry there. they are not dummies there.

The other thought was of what I told him yesterday, when he called me at work. or day before yesterday...forget.

Anyway, he was fussing at how that other office called him and how he does not need this... blahblah blah. I decided to tell him what I had been thinking of saying.... I told him that if there was anything in this world that would let me feel hope again, it would be if he went to talk to someone. that I love him more than life and that I believe that this could help him to live a better life. That it would make me happier than anything I can think of, to see him get help.

So regardless of why, it can only be a positive thing, in my mind.

He is also excited about doing a 'gig', online, for someone wanting to hire someone to help develop a game or something. He isn't sure how the job he applied for is going to go. .. he turned in the stuff online, and is waiting to hear from her.

so, that's a new twist!
Perhaps he is so excited about this online opportunity, he will do anything to be able to have access to the internet.

I am too shocked to be excited.

dandylion

chicory.....you can always be GUARDEDLY optimistic. It is possible that something good will happen. I really do understand that after living with disappointment for such a l ong time...one is almost afraid to hope for fear of "jinxing" the outcome.

Overall, though, just a few short weeks ago, you had such a feeling of hopelessness. So, I would say that there has been overall improvement--on both sides!!

Maybe, pray like Hel* and row for the shore.

I do think for him--there are lots of opportunities for employment if his natural talents are properly channeled. That is why we (you) are turning over rocks, right now...right?..LOL!

I am firmly in your all's corner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dandylion

chicory

Yes, Dandylion, it feels so odd, so uncomfortable, to feel hopeful. He has resisted everything anyone has ever said. I have noticed him being more 'receptive' when the conversation has been thoughtful, caring, and calm, with no accusations...letting him come to his own conclusion , he seems to be more honest then.

I will contact my therapist on Monday and let her know. I will make sure son will go and then ask him to make an appt. If he does not, well , that puts me back to square one. I pray that he is sincere. I think when he sees hope of a good job he gets really happy, and it seems that now is the best time to use my internet card!

hugs and thanks for the prayers,
chicory

Fandy

Chic, anything is better than the old push and pull arguing...don't worry about him "abusing Ritalin"...he hasn't even gotten his foot in their office.....sheesh...let him go and start seeing the therapist before you find something new to worry/obsess.

but make it known, that if he gets employment of any kind, 1/2 of his paycheck goes to the household expenses...if this is what you want to do.

it sounds as if he might be mulling over the issues you have been suggesting and this is good...so is applying for jobs and doing any kind of work.

hope you have great vacation with no more stress.

chicory

yes, so true, its weird to not have conflict during a conversation. guess I dont trust him much..lol. I wasn't worrying about the Ritalin,,, just my radar came on when he mentioned it. I probably do worry too much, Fandy. Bring the slap-o-matic this way, won't you?

and yes, I , with my new found courage to enforce boundaries, I will insist he contribute half his check, toward bills, and encourage savings too, for transportation. It would be a first for him to save enough money for something he needs.

I hope, but feel weirdly vulnerable for some reason.

looking forward to some time away from work. five more days!