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A long road - Part 1

Old 07-10-2014, 06:07 AM
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chicory.....have you thought about the idea of seeing the therapist twice weekly for, at least, a little while. I think you might use some extra support while things are still so "up in the air"...so to speak. Also, she might know of some free support groups that you could join for parents in your type of situation. (won't hurt to ask).

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Old 07-10-2014, 06:50 AM
  # 282 (permalink)  
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Well, I could use someone to call as needed, for those moments which I am not supposed to engage..lol.

Other than that, well, I am hoping that she's a good fit,,, because I did not feel like I really got a lot out of yesterdays visit. I told her my history. And did not hear much that I have not already heard, here and elsewhere. so we shall see. hoping...

I mean, you folks are good here. As I see it, she has given me some contacts, which is helpful, for son.

But when I get there, I dont really carry the frustrations in with me.... as usually I have already worked them out here. I mean, I can tell her about the incidents when we argued, but she can't tell me more than you all do, such as "Don't engage"...

It will be helpful if and when things don't go as planned here, but al-anon may give me more in the long run.

I think it is good to go, for me, so I will just have faith that I will get something from it.

now I remember about the push ups. I should have some awesome arms before its all over, I think. I take a lot of blame, but am trying to see through that.

perhaps that is where she can help me... to understand me, my past and how it all affects me now.

Thank you
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Old 07-10-2014, 07:24 AM
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chicory....one of the frustrating things about therapy, of this type, is that it necessitates taking a lot of time, up front, just for the history taking. And, I don't see any easy way around that. You wouldn't want her to go off, half-cocked, not really familiar with you and your situation. And, it takes a period of time to establish trust in your relationship with her. That is why I suggested what I did--to try to speed this up on the front end.

It is so hard, because when someone goes to a person for help...it is because they are usually in pain, somehow.....and want to see some rubber hit the road...like, now! At least, that is how I have felt when I have gone. It always seemed to me that an hour goes by in three minutes!!!!!

I didn't realize that you were going to alanon? Actually, I didn't go back to the beginning of your story...I picked up on this thread about your son, basically.
I think that alanon would be an excellent "group therapy" (LOL).

My favorite definition of a therapist is: "A helping person along the way". That can be anyone. Anyone who helps.

I think that someone to call when you are triggered to engage (when you shouldn't) is a really good idea.

About the push-ups: Most of us who do negative self-talk don't realize how much we do it. It is usually a habit that is so ingrained that it is practically sub-conscious.
But...words are very powerful....a lesson that I have learned very well...though, not easily (LOL).
Even the ones that we say to ourselves. Usually coming from internalizing the words that others have said to us at some point in time.

I'll bet that if you become very conscious of every time you utter something about yourself in negative words (or tones)...you will be shocked at how often you do it.

How we think pretty well dictates what we do. And, if you accept that as true..how in the world can we behave in the positive when we think about ourselves in the negative.

As for me....I grew up as a young person in a culture where "modesty" and self-depreciation was actually seen as a good quality in a person. Didn't want to be too high-falutin', you know? So, that was a hard habit for me to break.
If somebody said that my dress was pretty...I was to say "This old thing!"
I was a young child in the mountains of West Virginia. Work hard; be tough...but, don't go gettin' a big head.

Oh, well.......

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Old 07-10-2014, 08:10 AM
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Dandy, you are so right. I am wanting to hurry up and feel like I am making progress, that things will work out. Just make me confident, and take away my fear! lol

I am not in Al-anon, but am looking for a meeting close to me. I am not a night driver-cant see well in rain, etc. but I believe it would be awesome for me. Because there are no guarantees that I wont have him here for a long time, you know?

I wish it would fix him to throw him out on the streets! I would build a special catapult for just that purpose. But I believe with my heart that he needs help, and that is why I am trying so hard to get him that. Perhaps someday with counsel, meds if necessary, he might find life manageable. and aa, probably. it looks like Mt. Everest...

Yes, that hour flies by! I did call my sister last evening when things got heated up. She got to hear him acting stupid. Bless her, she is in the same position with her son.

She works for a group that does electroshock therapy on severely depressed persons. she sees it work miracles for many who were hopeless . But, she mentioned that she often sees those who mentally are dependent and do not want to be independent. who do not want to do the work.

I will work hard to listen to my self talk. Yesterday while telling him that I have the right to expect certain things in my own home. I had to reassure myself, as I was saying it, that I have rights too, I matter too. I actually said that, as he was stomping away... I matter too!

thanks so much for your support....everyone... its a great thing.
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Old 07-10-2014, 08:12 AM
  # 285 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
As for me....I grew up as a young person in a culture where "modesty" and self-depreciation was actually seen as a good quality in a person. Didn't want to be too high-falutin', you know? So, that was a hard habit for me to break.
If somebody said that my dress was pretty...I was to say "This old thing!"
I was a young child in the mountains of West Virginia. Work hard; be tough...but, don't go gettin' a big head.

Oh, well.......

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dandylion,,, I find that charming... but I know what you mean. my family was from Tennessee, and pretty much the same way.my grandma anyway. pretty is as pretty does, she always said

Last edited by DesertEyes; 07-11-2014 at 09:18 PM. Reason: Fixed broken quote
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Old 07-10-2014, 09:15 AM
  # 286 (permalink)  
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why on earth would you apologize for wanting a decent peaceful life for yourself? think about it? You are a good mother, but he is 41 years old, he ain't a baby, he has a brain to USE. the first thing he does when he can't find his way is cry for mama to help him find an address. at that point, mama has to stop answering the phone and let him figure it out and use the said brain muscle which is weak from all the enabling. This is possible for you to do, but probably hard to sit on your tongue.

waffling is best when they are toasted crunchy with butter and jam....not soggy with sympathy syrup...(sigh, it's always about food analogies with me isn't it)?
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Old 07-10-2014, 10:38 AM
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Thanks chicory...that wasn't really the best example of what I meant.
OMG my grandmother--that I mostly lived with, when I was young...said the same thing!!!.

I will add that I am proud of where I grew up. there were/are also many great characteristics of the mountain culture (I'm talking DEEP mountains) that are very enviable!! I will always be thankful--mostly of my grandmother's generation.

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Old 07-11-2014, 03:40 PM
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Well today is the deadline. for filling out the paperwork and sending it in.

He threw a holy fit... looks like a crazy man, and says I am crazy for doing this.

My heart is broken by how he is talking to me and the insults.

I want to file for an eviction and just send him away from my home. I do not deserve this.

I only wait for him to go, and to talk to someone, and maybe get help. If it does not , the internet will be his expense, if I cannot get him to leave.

I can't even tell you the mean things he said. He is the monster I always thought he was. He does not deserve a place to live, in comfort. I wish he had a jail cell. I cannot put him on the street, but I really cannot stand who he is. There is meanness in his heart.

I am sorry for such an ugly vent.
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Old 07-11-2014, 03:52 PM
  # 289 (permalink)  
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Tight Hugs Chic. Stay the course. The closer it gets the bigger the fit, but if you don't engage they will decrease I would think.

Praying for you both.
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Old 07-11-2014, 04:05 PM
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((((chicory))) my darling protect yourself. Get the police involved if needed. He may need some jail time. Do not live in fear. Please.....maybe call a domestic violent hotline for advice and support.

I love you darling. Your heart is pure. his Beast is in control.

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Old 07-11-2014, 04:10 PM
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Thanks hopeful.

I guess I dont need to say anything else here. its only sad .

Thank you for the prayers.

Leelee, I stood my ground, in his face. and could see in his eyes he was trying to bark louder than me. Puffing up like a big old toad. I just did not let it make me cry. He has backed down even though he filled out the paper and I stuck it in the envelope. I would imagine he is feeling like a monster. let him.

I told him the only reason he is here is that I dont want him in the street.

He only looked and found this job because I was threatening. He says its because he wanted a job. I know better.
I guess I am going to have to be one hateful beotch from now on.

how can your own child. though grown, be so very mean? he is super angry,and not just at me. at his self, I would guess.

I am ok. Somehow it did not get as out of control this time. with him, it does not take two to argue.

why would someone be so averse to going for counsel, if they were so miserable at their parents home and if the parent was as much of an ocd, controlling, nosey, instigating parent as he says I am?
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Old 07-11-2014, 08:01 PM
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chicory....As hopeful4 just said..."Stay the course". And, you did an excellent job in doing that this evening, I think. I have been exposed to just what you described,,,and believe me...it pushes every button one has. To feel rejected and disrespected by one's own child is excrutiatingly painful. I absolutely understand your angry feelings.

I do believe that it was his pathology(ies) talking...or squawking! Down deep, he still loves you...but his fighting to defend his position pushes that underground. A person can get so mad at their own child that they can forget that they love them, also!!

He has been using this tactic for a long time.....Big Angry Nasty Toad...and, it has worked. So, it follows that he would pull out the big guns for this battle Royal. But, since you didn't engage (much, lol), he saw the whites of your eyes...and, backed down. Progress. His manipulation has not worked on you.

chicory...I would like to say that I wouldn't say this if he had actually gotten aggressive enough to hurt you.... you would have to draw the line there....

I do believe that, ultimately, it is in your and his best interest to be living independently.
It is paradoxical that those who depend on us will ultimately resent us....because they hate their own dependent (unfairly) needs!! "The rescuer (unnecessarily) becomes the victim" sort of thing.

But, i believe your ultimate goal is to usher him out into independent living without doing it in a way that crushes your heart with lifelong trauma (for you). You tried that before...as I understand....and it didn't work for you. This is why I see merit in standing your ground.

You titled this thread "a long road"...LOL. So true! But, whatever the outcome...I believe that you will have more serenity, inside, if you felt that you did the right thing and did everything within your power.

I know that tonight was a rough one...but, so far;so good.

Give yourself a good pat on the back!

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Old 07-11-2014, 08:02 PM
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Oh chic my love. I am so sorry.
It must be so incredibly painful to have your child behave like this.

And I am ashamed to tell you that many years back, I behaved this badly as well.
Had terrible screaming fights with my parents; they were only trying to help me. It was very very ugly, and I am surprised in retrospect that they did not call the police or have me committed.

I was an out-of-control addict.
Take away the drugs and alcohol and I am the person you know today.

I hope with all of my heart that it can be the same for your son.

Please, as Lee Lee said, keep yourself safe here love.
We have something hear called CAT ~ Crisis assessment and treatment teams.
The will come to your house and help you when someone is dangerous and acting in a manner that is genuinely frightening. I would imagine you have a similar service there?

Sending love and prayers,

V xx ♥
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Old 07-11-2014, 09:03 PM
  # 294 (permalink)  
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Dandylion,

Gosh, I appreciate your wisdom, especially when my brain has been pummeled, and I can barely get my thoughts organized.
He has been doing this for a long time. I let him do it from early childhood. tantrums, badgering. I wish I had been wiser then. Was I overcompensating for my mom who would not even let us speak our minds about anything, without slapping our mouths? We could not ever say what we thought, and I always wanted my children to be able to. Seems I over did it! oh well. not going to say more, my arms are sore from last nights pushups...lolol

I want him to be out of here, and in a safe place, more than anything.

Venus, thanks for sharing that. Alcohol does that to lots of people. My son wasn't drinking though. I could excuse drunken rants, but a sober abuser, hurts more.

we do have something like that here. and I have their number. also of the domestic violence hotline. in case. but I am not worried about it much , since I see that his rants have a stopping point. a great big tantrum, like Leelee said.

well friends I will head to bed now. am exhausted and have to work tomorrow. my TGIF is TGIS..
thank you, so much.
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Old 07-11-2014, 09:14 PM
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chicory, I suspect that your observations about your childhood---having an impact on you are probably correct. I grew up with very strict rules about keeping one's own opinion to yourself--esp. if it was negative in any way.

After all---you knew that the boundaries were wrong!...but, without any knowledge of where to put the boundaries for your own kids---we just do the best that we know how.
After all, kids do not come with an instruction booklet!!
I know that you love your k ids and that you did your best.

That would fit most of us, wouldn't it? We love our kids and we do the best that we know how.

Also, I don't consider honest observations about your self or experiences are the same thing as "negative self talk".

You deserve a good night sleep after the day you have had!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 07-12-2014, 05:41 AM
  # 296 (permalink)  
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how can your own child. though grown, be so very mean? he is super angry,and not just at me. at his self, I would guess.

I am ok. Somehow it did not get as out of control this time. with him, it does not take two to argue.


Bingo! it takes 2.....back off and call for back up. This is when your son in law comes by and puffs up bigger, tells him that mama abuse will show him the door. you make the back up call to the therapist, you get a smart phone or a cheap tablet with wifi and sit in dunkin donuts sipping coffee to connect with us.

I'm sorry I missed this thread yesterday, I got wrapped up in stuff at the house.

Chic, my daughter says some horrible things to me, I am done making excuses for her behavior. now when we engage/spar her husband gets copies of the verbage. I tell my brother/SIL and my nephew. they don't say much back, but they hear me...that's what I need, someone to HEAR ME.

you too, you need for others to hear you and respect your feelings.

I hope you feel better today. Did he get the job?
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Old 07-12-2014, 05:53 AM
  # 297 (permalink)  
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You did great Chicory. Big hugs.

You do have a right to peace in your own home and you are making steps towards that.

Fandy's ideas are solid about next steps.

Don't let him get any "ground" back, but keep pushing while you have momentum
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Old 07-14-2014, 04:59 AM
  # 298 (permalink)  
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Bump....waiting on your thoughts Chic-ala. hope you have a peaceful week...another therapy apt on Wed? remember to call for back-up if he gets all worked into a froth and in your face. don't worry about what YOU think he is thinking and feeling. the old "actions speak louder than words" applies here.

hugs to you and those fatboys.
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:08 AM
  # 299 (permalink)  
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chicory...thinking about you, this morning!

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Old 07-14-2014, 08:20 PM
  # 300 (permalink)  
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Hello pals.
I haven't posted because not much going on at the moment. I mailed the paperwork yesterday, from my daughters house, because of my lousy mailman! did not want it getting lost, or son taking it out of the mailbox..lol.

I guess they will call, or I better call them, actually. to see if they got the paper. its all his insurance info.

so, things have been so peaceful the last few days. he has been on his best behavior, of course. sleeping nights, getting to his dentist appt, without needing directions or getting lost..and filling out some sort of request for his drug test from his new job.

I am resting up

my next therapy is wednesday.

Thank you for thinking of me. I was sure tired out last week-lol

hugs
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