chicory---Smart of you to take the deep breath.."calm down"...and then proceed to do the next right thing. You can't do better than that, at his moment!

Actually, I don't think it went that bad! Really. Of course, he wasn't going to immediately say: "you are perfectly right, mom..tell me what else you would like me to do". It is natural for him to feel defensive, have some anger (also, probably fearful, inside), and try to defend his position. BUT..he didn't go completely berserk or hurt anyone or destroy anything.....and, he was able to do some sort of self-soothing and impulse control--because he calmed down when you gave him more information.

It is not really news that he has given up hope--doesn't see any other options. After all, didn't you express some of these same feelings about your "position" in this. Didn't you say how much getting a little hope changed your feelings? He doesn't, yet, believe that positive things can and will come his way. We know that there is help out there for him---he doesn't.

The ungodly arguments that I have had with my oldest son--you just wouldn't believe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think that practicing detachment from his reactions will help you a lot---just like we practice detachment from quacking of adult partners. You have the choice to choose your reactions to him--try to remember this--I think it will help you with your fear of his anger.

If you expect him to flip and flop and say some ridiculous (to you) things....I believe you will be more able to "hang steady"

I sure do hope that whoever he sees is clued in as to the possibility that he may have undiagnosed ADD..among other things, of course.

I think you have handled this well......

dandylion

Oh, chic I'm sorry it didn't go so smoothly.

I've been following & wanted to just chime in with some ((((((hugs)))))) and support because I have no BTDT experience to share. You definitely couldn't control or predict his reaction, so don't beat yourself up for things not going as well as you intended. Change is difficult & uncomfortable no matter how necessary it is! :hug:

I am inspired by your determination to make changes in this situation & I truly believe that you will do the next best thing. Keep deep breathing!!!

Thanks so much everyone. I am calming down, but almost got physically sick. He got so angry. I fear him, sometimes, honestly. I told him so a few minutes ago. I am sick to admit it to myself. But then again, angry people frighten me. One time I saw a guy pacing, so angry at his girlfriend, or wife, and his body language was so strong, I ran inside the building. he wasn't even within 100 ft of me, but I felt his anger and could imagine him shooting someone. my friends did not even notice. it was outside a mental health building where he was , and we worked next door at an information imaging center. Anger frightens me. probably frightens a lot of people.

I called the psychiatrists office. asked to make an appt. she asked for him to fill out an information survey, to see if they feel they could help him!!! I told her that it was a special situation, and who referred me to this lady in particular. the receptionist said, that they do it opposite. he must get therapy first then they recommend him to the psychiatrist if they think he needs it. I see the sense in that I guess.
she was nice, and suggested to mail it to me. ok. then I had to tell son the plan. that they would want him to fill out survey and see therapists before maybe recommending meds for any anxiety... funny he is denying depression and anxiety now... those were pretty much his fall back reason why he drinks or smokes.. anxiety.

anyway, he still does not like it , but asked who these people are anyway. I told him . he said that if he had a job i would see that he can do better. I told him that if he had a job he would drink, and I cannot have that here anymore. that I would want to hold his money till he gets enough to move out.

no more talk. we are both calmer now. off to work, and I sincerely wish I was off to a corner to cry for a while. sometimes it helps to cry.

love you all. so good to have your support!

Chic..you did well..it surely isn't pleasant or comfortable..once the message is
given and even though you feel sick..and have that knot ..it won't necessarily
get better..it will keep you vigilant as it is not a battle you can walk away from.
To me this is about your life and future mostly..and guiding him takes a lot of guts.
To me..his reaction is that he knows you mean business. Sometimes our sons don't
give us credit for being an individual..they see as their keepers..once we turn that
table..good things happen...just not all at once.

I have to say Chic..once my son knew our position..he changed as this was a forever
commitment..not a no contact situation waiting until the hissy fit was over. We did
this routine..doesn't work..at least not in our family..Your strength shows and your
meaning it also comes through as well..

Hugs

lauren

I am confused???? a letter from 4 years ago stating something is on the table for discussion? and made him angry? and his demeanor frightens you...that i understand and hopw your son in law will come by and tell him point blank he cannot threaten you with anything, or he can go live on the curb in front of the house.

sorry for the curve ball getting the appointment and I do really understand that physical sick feeling, my daughter's father used to bully me to that point. I hope you bring this up to your therapist next appointment, cos Chic, living with that kind of stress will affect your physical health. I can actually smell that kind of stress when I am in it myself (Little miss Fandy is still no picnic, but now I just get in my car and drive 55 miles north away from her).

thankfully he is gone this weekend so you can gather your feelings and try to relax. Be sure to reach out to your daughters and sister and us as you need it.

You did great and he knows you are serious.

The news today said that the unemployment rate is the LOWEST in years, 6.1% down 2 points over last MONTH. so he can't use this excuse much longer.

hope work is peaceful for you, TTYL, xxoo

Chicory, once we set our trash on the curb it is no longer private property, it is public. So, you looked in the trash at some mail to get answers you needed.
whoopty-do. He was just trying to change the focus by getting all mad about that. Don't fall for it. He is trying to detour thro distraction right around the real point of the discussion.

I did not expect him to like it, did you?

Please only worry about managing your anxiety.

love,
T

OH. chicory---I am so happy to hear this!!

Crying is good---go ahead and let it roll. I could swell the Colorado river with all the tears that I have cried. It is nature's way of releasing the negative energy from your body.

dandylion

(((((chicory))))). I'm so proud of you for pressing on. I see nothing slimy in reading his mail. He won't talk to you, you're worried. He's under your roof and is exhibiting strange behavior. What choice did it leave you? I think his behavior was a way to guilt you, to make you blame yourself and take the focus off him and his behaviors.

He has been contributing nothing to the household. Not even pleasant company. He doesn't help with the chores. He doesn't help with the finances. He has to know he has been cut some major slack and kindness. Now it's his time to accept some responsibility for his own self.

Much love to you, darling!

Lenina

((Chic))

Do you realize all you have accomplished this week my friend? THAT IS HUGE! I am so so proud of you. While it was not smooth as silk, I don't really think you thought it would be. You are moving forward. It is just like them to pick out one thing that really does not matter much (the letter) and focus on that to derail you from what he really needs to focus on. You can do this. As for the therapy stuff, it's not a marriage. If that one is no good, try another. Point is, he has agreed. They will surely see through his BS. I myself would write them a letter about what is going on so they are informed. I would tell them you don't require any info back, that you are simply enclosing this because he has a history of denial. Controlling, maybe. Necessary, possibly, so they get the true scheme of things.

I hope you have a happy and peaceful 4th. Be proud of these accomplishments this week! Cry if you need to, but be proud of YOU!

xxx

A special situation? He's not special At. All. Do you ever watch Dr. Phil? He has deadbeats on all the time like your son with the enablers. Sorry to be so harsh, but you're hiding behind diagnosis of things that have not really been diagnosed. Have you ever heard of a Life Coach Therapist? They specialize in cutting thru the BS excuses and advise on how ppl need to get off their @$$. Unfortunately that needs to happen when they're late teens and 20s. He's done this so long with you helping him who knows. Again, I know this sounds harsh to you but I would be doing you a disservice by just pouring on the syrup.

refiner, as usual, do not even know what I meant by that. I dont need to explain to you. You only comment when you can find something to criticize.
are you my ex husbands wife, btw? sound just like her.

I understand why you are frustrated with me and that's ok. You yourself told the T he's a Special Situation per your post. I just want to keep you aware of your hand that you have in his game is all. I hope you get this resolved for both of you.

I don't watch tv. My son the deadbeat keeps me too busy.

refiner, post elsewhere, ok?

Chic.... you are doing the right things. Carry on my friend. Everyone has opinions but no one lives your life. Dont forget the great progress you have made and try to have some peace this weekend. Remember, its baby steps. You had goals for this week and you met them, and no heart attack after all!! Lol.

Ps.... i like dr phil but life is alot easier when he steps in and takes over and offers all sorts of free help. That is not real life for all, so we do the best we can. Lets remember we are here to offer support and encourage!

Hopeful,
Yes, wouldn't it be so nice if Dr. Phil could just swoop down and fix it for all of us?
SR has been a great source of learning for me. It has kept me sane, I think? lol

Grateful hugs going round. you are all so kind as to walk this road with me. I know I am slow, but I fight my own demons too, and look forward to growing from this.

(((((chicory))). Sending you love. It's a hard road with adult children, I think. I am so proud of you being so brave. I don't like confrontation either. Sometimes I have to dish/deal with too and my tum gets in a knot. Please do protect yourself, deep breaths and try to remember to eat!

You're my girl!

Lenina

Leelee! sending love back at you!

Its like I have let my 'house' get so messy, and now its harder to clean, you know?

I want strawberries now today, and am going to try to eat healthy, since I'm on a roll...lol.corn on the cob and butter, mmm , that sounds so nice, too.

love and hugs, and hope your day is awesome. thank you!!!:You_Rock_

I don't think Dr. Phil is a doctor..he was created and birthed by Oprah...down home farm belt wisdom. I can't remember if he has a degree?
Chic, whatever Dx is determined for your son, his situation in YOUR house is going to change.....you have been as proactive as possible....the past year has been shown you that you want a different life. For yourself too.

:hug: Fandy

that burning question about "Dr. Phil" having a degree....

here is the short version, there are a lot longer ones...He is not required to keep his license for his show because it is "entertainment" not therapy. tsk, tsk...arthritis???

Dr. Phil McGraw earned a Doctorate degree in psychology from the University of North Texas


In addition, he went to University of North Texas for his PhD, a 4th tier college, which means it has the lowest ranking. His Ph.d thesis was on rheumatoid arthritis. His license was suspended and revoked for having a sexual relationship with a teenage client. He was ordered to take ethics classes, but never finished them. He currently does not hold a license to practice anywhere.

he also has an Xwife somewhere in his closet..... :a213: