I Need to Know What To Do! No Generalizing
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: sacramento Calif.
Posts: 6
I Need to Know What To Do! No Generalizing
Before you read this, please note I KNOW I NEED AL-Anon, so please don't give me that as your answer. Thanks. I've been to Al-Anon, I will go back, but what I'm looking for now is an answer to what action do I take that has worked for others in the past...please?
I am a Mother of 3 and a wife. Our oldest son is 28 and is an alcoholic. He can't seem to hang onto anything for any length of time. Of course, the problem is, most of what he's grasping he didn't get for himself! He went to college for 7 or 8 years (from us and loans), he's never earned the money for his own car and yet he's had many, he's been to detox upteen times (we paid the insurance premiums) and on and on. He's very intelligent and is on meds for anxiety and depression. He goes on binges for 9 days at a whack (beer then on to hard liquor). He then begs for detox. We help him get there. He's been to 30 day programs more than once. He's lived in a clean and sober house for 4 months. He'll clean himself up (he looks wonderful when he's clean!), gets a job and then downslides after 4 months. Then everything goes in the toilet and the patten repeats.
Two weeks ago, he lost another job. He disappeared for a couple days and then shows up back home (our home) drunk again. This time was a tiny bit different in that he never went to hard liquor and didn't ask for detox. 'Course we told him his insurance ran out and so I guess he had no choice but to straighten up. Up 'till yesterday, he looked and acted great again. I know he wasn't drinking. But, once again, he's disappeared. Haven't heard from him. He probably is at it again, that's my guess.
So here's the questions....I KNOW I can't put up with this any longer. I'm through with this. He's affecting all our lives and so I've come to that reality. But, let's say he shows up tonight while we're sleeping, or tomorrow..and he's drunk again. Do I send him on his way even though it is not safe for him to drive? What if he kills another person or himself because I sent him out..how does one live with that? He has no job, he has very little money, there is no way he's going to get a place to stay. Is that what Al-Anon is advising? Please help me. This is so scarry. I've been an enabler for so long, and this is such an extreme. HELP NOW
I am a Mother of 3 and a wife. Our oldest son is 28 and is an alcoholic. He can't seem to hang onto anything for any length of time. Of course, the problem is, most of what he's grasping he didn't get for himself! He went to college for 7 or 8 years (from us and loans), he's never earned the money for his own car and yet he's had many, he's been to detox upteen times (we paid the insurance premiums) and on and on. He's very intelligent and is on meds for anxiety and depression. He goes on binges for 9 days at a whack (beer then on to hard liquor). He then begs for detox. We help him get there. He's been to 30 day programs more than once. He's lived in a clean and sober house for 4 months. He'll clean himself up (he looks wonderful when he's clean!), gets a job and then downslides after 4 months. Then everything goes in the toilet and the patten repeats.
Two weeks ago, he lost another job. He disappeared for a couple days and then shows up back home (our home) drunk again. This time was a tiny bit different in that he never went to hard liquor and didn't ask for detox. 'Course we told him his insurance ran out and so I guess he had no choice but to straighten up. Up 'till yesterday, he looked and acted great again. I know he wasn't drinking. But, once again, he's disappeared. Haven't heard from him. He probably is at it again, that's my guess.
So here's the questions....I KNOW I can't put up with this any longer. I'm through with this. He's affecting all our lives and so I've come to that reality. But, let's say he shows up tonight while we're sleeping, or tomorrow..and he's drunk again. Do I send him on his way even though it is not safe for him to drive? What if he kills another person or himself because I sent him out..how does one live with that? He has no job, he has very little money, there is no way he's going to get a place to stay. Is that what Al-Anon is advising? Please help me. This is so scarry. I've been an enabler for so long, and this is such an extreme. HELP NOW
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: That's what I'd like to know.
Posts: 2,416
As far as letting him sleep it off at your house, you have to do what your conscience tells you to. If you couldn't live with yourself seeing him drive off when he's intoxicated then your choices are let him stay or have him picked up for public intoxication. Just make the call. They'll haul him off to the drunk tank and he'll be fairly safe. Many of us have been at that extreme point, where our loved ones are homeless and destitute except if we intervene. We forget that these people we believe will be so helpless without us are finding ways to get to and purchase their drugs and alcohol as if by magic. If they can do that, they can find shelter. They can find rehab (the Salvation Army Rehab is free). They can find employment. They don't have to do any of that if we keep doing for them, so why would they? Yes. Alanon says let go and let them face the consequences of their actions. As a responsible citizen wouldn't you call the cops if you saw some other drunk go off to endanger people? I was too much of a weinie to call the cops on Dino but there are plenty of folks here who've done it. But we have to do what we can live with. I could never have turned Dino out on a cold night, but I've turned him out. If you're not ready to do that, it's okay. We all recover at our own rate and we all have compromises that we make with our consciences.
Glad you're here! Hugs,
Smoke
Glad you're here! Hugs,
Smoke
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: sacramento Calif.
Posts: 6
Thank You For That
Thank you. I don't think I can live with that..and to hear you put it that way makes me breath again. I'm really scared but I know I need to take action to put a stop to our involvement. He's sick but he's had every opportunity to help himself. Now, we need to take away the comfort we provide. If he wants comfort, he'll need to find that on his own. But, ow we present this to him, is what I'm trying deal with at the moment.
I've cried and cried and my heart is broken. We love him so much. God gave him good looks, above average intelligence and a loving home and he's done nothing to help himself. He'll go to AA for up to a few weeks, but just can't seem to get past the "religious cult" of it (his words, not mine). He's read all the books of AA (he's a literature major or was).
I have every emotion going right now. Anger, fear, depression, and God help me, I'm ashamed as well.
I hide from the neighbors just to avoid the "What's you're son doing?" questions. Their sons and daughters are doing great....so I hide. I don't know how to handle those situations, I don't know how to handle giving up on my son. It's going to take a lot of practice, isn't it?
I've cried and cried and my heart is broken. We love him so much. God gave him good looks, above average intelligence and a loving home and he's done nothing to help himself. He'll go to AA for up to a few weeks, but just can't seem to get past the "religious cult" of it (his words, not mine). He's read all the books of AA (he's a literature major or was).
I have every emotion going right now. Anger, fear, depression, and God help me, I'm ashamed as well.
I hide from the neighbors just to avoid the "What's you're son doing?" questions. Their sons and daughters are doing great....so I hide. I don't know how to handle those situations, I don't know how to handle giving up on my son. It's going to take a lot of practice, isn't it?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: That's what I'd like to know.
Posts: 2,416
(((( Redeye! ))))
Yep. Practice. But first think about this: Detaching from his drinking and ceasing to enable is not the same as giving up on your son. The fact that your realize that you can't make it all happen FOR him doesn't mean you don't believe it can happen. It just means letting him find his own way. Dino is my SO, not my child. I know some of the other moms will be along to tell you what it's been like for them. It's doubly hard to stop trying to take care of your child. ("Aren't I SUPPOSED to?") But he sounds like a smart guy. Boy, if he thinks AA is a religious cult he would really hate the Salvation Army. But not everybody is cut out for that brand of recovery. Dino did counseling. It's been a long rocky road but he's building a life and I am very proud of him. It's hard to know what will motivate a person, but I can tell you that as long as I was taking care of him, Dino was not going to lift a finger to take care of himself. He's smart, handsome and capable, too. Why? No use asking. We just have to get out of their way and let them be what they're going to be.
Hugs!
Smoke
Yep. Practice. But first think about this: Detaching from his drinking and ceasing to enable is not the same as giving up on your son. The fact that your realize that you can't make it all happen FOR him doesn't mean you don't believe it can happen. It just means letting him find his own way. Dino is my SO, not my child. I know some of the other moms will be along to tell you what it's been like for them. It's doubly hard to stop trying to take care of your child. ("Aren't I SUPPOSED to?") But he sounds like a smart guy. Boy, if he thinks AA is a religious cult he would really hate the Salvation Army. But not everybody is cut out for that brand of recovery. Dino did counseling. It's been a long rocky road but he's building a life and I am very proud of him. It's hard to know what will motivate a person, but I can tell you that as long as I was taking care of him, Dino was not going to lift a finger to take care of himself. He's smart, handsome and capable, too. Why? No use asking. We just have to get out of their way and let them be what they're going to be.
Hugs!
Smoke
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
My mother in law handed over $200 and a kick in the butt to her son. Out till you can act proper and remain clean. He came home about a year later clean.
That worked for him. Helped him find that he needs to take responsability for self. She wasn't going to be his safety net any more.
Seems that is how you son may be looking at life.... Hey I can mess up...Mom will bail me out. He needs to know you won't be doing that any more and you need hold to it.
Sending him off drunk.... call for a ride with the police or let him sleep it off and deal with things in the AM. Take his keys. His car? in his name? Take the car if not in his name.
He needs to know you mean business and you need hold to it so he fully knows.
That worked for him. Helped him find that he needs to take responsability for self. She wasn't going to be his safety net any more.
Seems that is how you son may be looking at life.... Hey I can mess up...Mom will bail me out. He needs to know you won't be doing that any more and you need hold to it.
Sending him off drunk.... call for a ride with the police or let him sleep it off and deal with things in the AM. Take his keys. His car? in his name? Take the car if not in his name.
He needs to know you mean business and you need hold to it so he fully knows.
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
RedEye,
My son is an alcoholic too and your story is mine up to and including your desperation right now.
What was said above is true. As long as you do it he won't have any need to do it on his own. There are no rules. He can sleep it off or you can send him on his way.
I have learned through the years to not tinker in life. What the heck do I know anyway? Whatever I do could make things worse in the long run.
Your son and mine are grown men. Their choices belong to them and so do the consequences. Mine was out for almost 8 years while I worked my own recovery and in the last two I have let him come home twice. Both times ended badly and to be honest my heart is just not into putting him out again so I will not be letting him in. He stayed with friends until he wore them out and then shelters, now jail.
My way to deal with my son was to give him...say...a week to move. At least that way I could tell myself he had notice. Turning him away was more than I could do. Where he went became his problem, not mine.
Make yourself at home. There are a lot of Mom's here.
JT
My son is an alcoholic too and your story is mine up to and including your desperation right now.
What was said above is true. As long as you do it he won't have any need to do it on his own. There are no rules. He can sleep it off or you can send him on his way.
I have learned through the years to not tinker in life. What the heck do I know anyway? Whatever I do could make things worse in the long run.
Your son and mine are grown men. Their choices belong to them and so do the consequences. Mine was out for almost 8 years while I worked my own recovery and in the last two I have let him come home twice. Both times ended badly and to be honest my heart is just not into putting him out again so I will not be letting him in. He stayed with friends until he wore them out and then shelters, now jail.
My way to deal with my son was to give him...say...a week to move. At least that way I could tell myself he had notice. Turning him away was more than I could do. Where he went became his problem, not mine.
Make yourself at home. There are a lot of Mom's here.
JT
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
RedEye
I too am the mother of an addict. For years I let him repeatedly come home to live, thinking that if he had a warm safe place, good food and family who lloved him that he would get or stay clean. I paid for his clothes, his food, every necessity and some frills, bailed him out of jail once, my husband gave him a job in his business, I drove him to meetings and picked him up, found him detox's and rehab's in 5 cities many times, and just thought that if I loved him enough, if I believed in him, then it would help. It did not.
The hardest thing I ever did was to turn him out and stop giving him anything, but it was also the most loving thing I ever did and the best thing for him and for me. It was only after I let go that he found his own way to recovery.
It took me time and many lessons to learn that his addiction and his recovery had nothing to do with me. It had to come from him, and he had to learn from the consequences of his actions before he surrendered and got clean.
I learned to pray and to trust that God would look after him. I learned to let go and stop enabling, and I learned that loving him meant doing the right thing, even if it hurt.
He lives his recovery one day at a time, and has built a new life for himself. Will he stay clean? I don't know. But I do know that whether he does or does not, no longer depends on me.
Sending hugs and prayers for you and your family.
Ann
I too am the mother of an addict. For years I let him repeatedly come home to live, thinking that if he had a warm safe place, good food and family who lloved him that he would get or stay clean. I paid for his clothes, his food, every necessity and some frills, bailed him out of jail once, my husband gave him a job in his business, I drove him to meetings and picked him up, found him detox's and rehab's in 5 cities many times, and just thought that if I loved him enough, if I believed in him, then it would help. It did not.
The hardest thing I ever did was to turn him out and stop giving him anything, but it was also the most loving thing I ever did and the best thing for him and for me. It was only after I let go that he found his own way to recovery.
It took me time and many lessons to learn that his addiction and his recovery had nothing to do with me. It had to come from him, and he had to learn from the consequences of his actions before he surrendered and got clean.
I learned to pray and to trust that God would look after him. I learned to let go and stop enabling, and I learned that loving him meant doing the right thing, even if it hurt.
He lives his recovery one day at a time, and has built a new life for himself. Will he stay clean? I don't know. But I do know that whether he does or does not, no longer depends on me.
Sending hugs and prayers for you and your family.
Ann
On The Yellow Brick Road
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Almost To Emerald City
Posts: 9
Red Eye,
Hi. I am so glad to be talking with you. My husband is an alcoholic and I to love him with all my heart and was at the end of my rope when i came to alanon. I did not know where he ended and i began. What were his problems and what were mine. All i ever did was clean up his mess because i thought that was what i was supposed to do. And yes i too was embarrased. I made my self sick doing that. In a meeting i was told to detatch from the problem and not the person. Which at first was a very dificult thing for me to do because i always solved his problems. Even if solving his problems ment figuring out what step he should take next or telling him where to go apply for a job since he had lost the one he had due to his problem. (or setting up a rehab intake) But when i stopped solving his problems and started alowing him to handle the situtations he created on his own in full detail i started realizing that he has a mind of his own and is capable of taking care of his own mess. Detaching does not mean not loving. When you truely understand that your loved one is sick you will understand that they have to get to the point that they want help and if we keep pick up there mess they will never get to that point. That even means suggesting direction for there life. The one thing that has given me comfort when i would start to ask all those what if questions is: the same God that watches over me takes care of him and if i truely trust God then i can replace my fear with faith. Faith knowing that God will take care of him. Hope this has helped in some way!!
Hi. I am so glad to be talking with you. My husband is an alcoholic and I to love him with all my heart and was at the end of my rope when i came to alanon. I did not know where he ended and i began. What were his problems and what were mine. All i ever did was clean up his mess because i thought that was what i was supposed to do. And yes i too was embarrased. I made my self sick doing that. In a meeting i was told to detatch from the problem and not the person. Which at first was a very dificult thing for me to do because i always solved his problems. Even if solving his problems ment figuring out what step he should take next or telling him where to go apply for a job since he had lost the one he had due to his problem. (or setting up a rehab intake) But when i stopped solving his problems and started alowing him to handle the situtations he created on his own in full detail i started realizing that he has a mind of his own and is capable of taking care of his own mess. Detaching does not mean not loving. When you truely understand that your loved one is sick you will understand that they have to get to the point that they want help and if we keep pick up there mess they will never get to that point. That even means suggesting direction for there life. The one thing that has given me comfort when i would start to ask all those what if questions is: the same God that watches over me takes care of him and if i truely trust God then i can replace my fear with faith. Faith knowing that God will take care of him. Hope this has helped in some way!!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ayer's Cliff, Quebec
Posts: 803
Maybe let him sleep it off then hand him the telephone number and address of the salvation army and tell him that's where he's going. Take away the vehicles if they are in your name.
You have to get support to stand your ground.
Ngaire
You have to get support to stand your ground.
Ngaire
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: sacramento Calif.
Posts: 6
I Need to Know
Thanks to all of you for your responses and encouragement. It's comforting to know that what I may have to do in the very near future has been done before. This is the 3rd night and he's still missing. I know he's out there drinking with his drinking friends. They'll get tired of him soon and send him to my doorstep. He's a binge drinker, so it'll take him days and days to sober up. Or, he'll ask to go to detox. I guess I'll give him a ride to detox (not for him but to prevent him from driving and possibly injurying someone else). The cops won't pick him up unless he's violent, which he never is. But, I've decided that if he goes to detox again, I'll be dropping him off at their front door. I will not go in. That's a big change. Then, after he's ready for check-out, I will serve him notice. Big heart races here just thinking about it. He needs to know that we love him and hope he does well but we're not picking him up any longer. He's just about broke, so he's going to have a tough go of it right from the start. He's used to comfort. Darn! Why can't life be easier? Why him, why us? He doesn't deserve this illness...no one does. This is so depressing. You raise your kids and have such high hopes for them. Keep them alive, teach them to talk and walk. Take them to school, get skin cancer from sitting at so many little league games, and put their pretty pictures on your walls. The ones with toothless grins, the ones standing with Mickey and Minnie. The one in their cap and gown. And now this? Life is weird. How does anyone find happiness when you know you have a son or a daughter out there suffering?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: sacramento Calif.
Posts: 6
I need to Know
Well guess who showed up last night? It was after we went to bed. Today is my daughter's 25th birthday and the oldest son is still sleeping. I won't say he's "sleeping it off" as he usually doesn't do that. He'll get up, go out to sit in his car and drink a beer to make him feel better, I guess. I was prepared to tell him today that he's out. But, it's his sister's birthday and we don't want to spoil her day. The car is a whle 'nother issue. It's in his name, although he owes us $4000.00 for it. We didn't want to put our name on title in case it's towed, or he gets in an accident. He has his own insurance (has it lapsed?) as we don't want a lawsuit in the future.
So, his Dad decided this morning that he doesn't want to kick him out on foot. I told him that chances are, he'll never see that $4000.00. Maybe with a little luck, he might pay it back "someday" if and when he becomes sober for the long-haul. His Dad says he still doesn't want to send him away without a vehicle. Okay, whatever. Then we discussed when. He came up with effective August 1 instead of tomorrow. Our roles have reversed. I was always the one that avoided this tough love stuff. Always had hope that with enough love and encouragment and support, that the son would overcome. His Dad was always angry and wanted to let go. But, here we are and I'm ready, he's not. Interesting development to say the least. we're no arguing over it by any means. We BOTH have to be ready for this. So, I'll be patient and tell my son August 1st come hell or highwater, he's going to have a change in lifestyle. I have to decide if we're telling him today or tomorrow. We're taking our daughter to the movies today and then to her favorite restuarant. Should be shocking to son that I'm not willing to take him to restuarant. don't want a drinker at the table, thank you very much. This really interferes with family. So, so sad. I cried my eyes out last night and prayed to our God to help our son find his way. Well, God answered, I guess. Our son came home within the hour. Ha! That's not what I meant, God. I'll have to converse with him more..be more specific. I guess God gave me some relief so I could sleep.
So, his Dad decided this morning that he doesn't want to kick him out on foot. I told him that chances are, he'll never see that $4000.00. Maybe with a little luck, he might pay it back "someday" if and when he becomes sober for the long-haul. His Dad says he still doesn't want to send him away without a vehicle. Okay, whatever. Then we discussed when. He came up with effective August 1 instead of tomorrow. Our roles have reversed. I was always the one that avoided this tough love stuff. Always had hope that with enough love and encouragment and support, that the son would overcome. His Dad was always angry and wanted to let go. But, here we are and I'm ready, he's not. Interesting development to say the least. we're no arguing over it by any means. We BOTH have to be ready for this. So, I'll be patient and tell my son August 1st come hell or highwater, he's going to have a change in lifestyle. I have to decide if we're telling him today or tomorrow. We're taking our daughter to the movies today and then to her favorite restuarant. Should be shocking to son that I'm not willing to take him to restuarant. don't want a drinker at the table, thank you very much. This really interferes with family. So, so sad. I cried my eyes out last night and prayed to our God to help our son find his way. Well, God answered, I guess. Our son came home within the hour. Ha! That's not what I meant, God. I'll have to converse with him more..be more specific. I guess God gave me some relief so I could sleep.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: sacramento Calif.
Posts: 6
I Need to Know
Well, I told him we needed to talk when he awoke. When he was ready, he said he'd talk. I told him that I couldn't live this way any longer...blah..blah..blah. He said he didn't understand what he was doing to me. He said he wasn't hurting anyone, and minding his own business. Blah blah blah. I told him that we've made it too easy and too comfortable for him to continue drinking. That as long as he didn't have to concentrate on making his own way, he could concentrate on drinking. I mentioned that we'd been through this so often and have tried so many things, and yet, nothing we do changes what he does. I said my health is suffering due to his behavoir. I can't sleep, and I'm always worried. I told him we both love him (Dad and Mom) but that we expect him to find his place to live by August 1. I KNOW I probably should have said tomorrow, but I just couldn't do it. I don't have the strength to turn him out like that. I was raised with the belief that family takes care of family, so believe me, just giving him a date that he can't live here anymore goes against every belief I've had. His too. I've added to his depression and I'm holding my breath at this point. I'm having to breathe deeply right now. My daughter's birthday. Her Dad took her to the movies. ALL have been invited to go out to dinner tonight. I doubt if he'll come. He left the house shortly after we spoke. Didn't take his cell phone. Playing with fate is all I can think of right now. Dangerous, isn't it?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: sacramento Calif.
Posts: 6
I need to Know
Here's my other thoughts. I KNOW he knows we love him. But, I can't understand why that love isn't enough for an alcoholic to want to do everything they can to get help. Why, even though they're drinking, can't they see how it affects those that love him the most? That should be enough to instill the desire to get help. Why in the hell would anyone want to drink so much that they can ignore those that love them, hurt those that are trying to help them, and completely disregard all that they know?
He's a health nut to a certain degree. It's such a contradiction, keep your body healthy, drink carrot juice or whatever and then drink till you can't think, drink and don't eat properly, drink till the brain cells and the liver is damaged. None of this makes sense to me. Why can't they see this wen they're drinking? They manage to get liquor, they can manage anything to get they're beer, but they can't manage to see what it's doing to them or to thse that love them?
He's a health nut to a certain degree. It's such a contradiction, keep your body healthy, drink carrot juice or whatever and then drink till you can't think, drink and don't eat properly, drink till the brain cells and the liver is damaged. None of this makes sense to me. Why can't they see this wen they're drinking? They manage to get liquor, they can manage anything to get they're beer, but they can't manage to see what it's doing to them or to thse that love them?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: That's what I'd like to know.
Posts: 2,416
Hi Redeye.
That's why they call it a disease. The substance has so much control it takes and earthquake in the soul to shake loose. I know this is tearing you up. It seems reasonable to me to give a broke person a few weeks to get a job before you cut them loose. Who knows if he will, but at least you will know you gave him the opportunity. I am agonizing with you. I'm reliving the "what ifs" and "maybe if I's" and the "if he would justs". I hope your daughter had a nice birthday anyway and I'm sorry you missed the movie. There is nothing unreasonable about what you have done.
Hugs!
Smoke
That's why they call it a disease. The substance has so much control it takes and earthquake in the soul to shake loose. I know this is tearing you up. It seems reasonable to me to give a broke person a few weeks to get a job before you cut them loose. Who knows if he will, but at least you will know you gave him the opportunity. I am agonizing with you. I'm reliving the "what ifs" and "maybe if I's" and the "if he would justs". I hope your daughter had a nice birthday anyway and I'm sorry you missed the movie. There is nothing unreasonable about what you have done.
Hugs!
Smoke
Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Venice, Florida
Posts: 414
When you are sick and tired of being sick adn tired, you will garner the strength to do just what you stated, " being an enabler for so long". I know it hurts and I know you are scared, but for many of us we had to have that kick in the pants or hit rock bottom or whatever you want ot call it, before we got serious about accepting the help out there for us.
Let your son know you still love him but cannot support him any longer. It may take him trying to get you to help and hearing you say "NO" a few times, but I pray he will get his act together and go into detox and mean it.
Let your son know you still love him but cannot support him any longer. It may take him trying to get you to help and hearing you say "NO" a few times, but I pray he will get his act together and go into detox and mean it.
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