Trust RAH after repeated affairs
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by Radiant 
I re read your post and " I discovered at least 2 more emotional affairs " So he didn't have to decency tell you, apparently you had to discovered it. I know my AH hasn't been faithful. I know if I keep digging what I find out would hurt me tremendously. I had to make a resolve and hold me accountable that 1) adultery is unforgivable to me (which he has always known) and 2) no more snooping. Holding myself responsible for my actions and out of his head and life has made me a better person and the anger and rage is almost all gone. I work on me and me only. He can be someone else's problem.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 873
Originally Posted by Tiggs77
Thank you for sharing your experience with me. Did you stay with your AH or leave him? It was hard to tell. If you stayed with him, would you please tell me what you say to yourself when your anxiety kicks in and you suspect a possible infidelity?
Hi Tiggs77- No I didn't stay, The resentment and rage I experienced was more than the actual act it's self. I am too scared of diseases and also diseases that are unknown to man still. I too found out he had been unfaithful for years from digging and digging. If you look hard enough you will find what you want.
I can look at myself in the mirror and know I tried all I could but once cheating is in the picture I have the right to end the marriage. He knew that was my deal breaker.
I had to work on myself and self esteem to know there is nothing wrong with me and why he choose to do what he had done, and keeps doing it.
Some woman believe if only I lost weight, or had long hair or wore more makeup etc etc. A man wanting to cheat is going to cheat. Look at all the men in hollywood that have stunning wives and they cheat and divorce why because they are addicts.
We are still married but he is no longer living here. I say we are still married because he won't finish the divorce.
I was at the end of my rope in Jan and I can honestly say working on me and him not around is the best thing for me.
I know you said you want to save your marriage but have you ever thought of just saving you? I send you double hugs I know the pain please please know you are not alone and you don't have to be we are here to help you.
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Originally Posted by Radiant
Hi Tiggs77- No I didn't stay, The resentment and rage I experienced was more than the actual act it's self.... I was at the end of my rope in Jan and I can honestly say working on me and him not around is the best thing for me. I know you said you want to save your marriage but have you ever thought of just saving you? I send you double hugs I know the pain please please know you are not alone and you don't have to be we are here to help you.
A much greater support network...
This all sounds good, but I want more. I can't say what exactly it is that I want- except that it's some kind of proof that it won't happen again- IOW, other than his sobriety, what is different that would give me confidence?
Of course I know we can't control the future (Codie)- and that's really not what I'm asking for. I know there is no guarantee in anything in life- I just would like some sign that would give me more confidence.
I'm not staying with him for money. I'm not staying "for the children", and I'm not staying because I'm scared to go alone. I'm confident in my appearance. I know I'm ok financially, the kids will be fine (2nd marriage), and I've been divorced from my kids dad for 8+ years... I'll be fine. I've stayed this long because for the first time, the intimacy was real- for years it was real and wonderful.
But- I don't want to stay if he is probably going to cheat again. I deserve better.
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Tiggs77-
It was my husband's affair that finally got me dealing with the elephant in the room, his alcohol use.
I have been working on healing from both for some time.
I have come to believe that I really wanted black/white thinking around them both as I was starting to heal....I think I thought if I had that I could know what the right decision would be.
I personally believe that like substance addiction, the act of an affair involves people not feeling the best about themselves, attempting to make themselves feel good. It is about how they feel inside, but in both cases the bandage of choice just makes the wound worse, fester and become infected.
The line between did alcohol cause the affair or the affair contribute to the alcohol made me nuts.
What I did find out in this experience about both of them was the following
1. They made me FEEL similar, crazy, out of control, and like I was at fault in some way (I struggled with that for a long time around alcohol, and got a backbone about the affair rather quickly).
2. That the Three Cs worked in either case. I did not cause it, I cannot control it, and I cannot cure it. I can however make myself crazy by contributing to the chaos that they both created in my life.
3. That my recovery from both was interchangable. Al-Anon which is about addiction recovery helped me around affair recovery too (loving detachment and the Three Cs especially). Reading and learning about both helped too.
4. My disease of codependency had a way of always making me least important.....working on that with either addiction or affairs helped me with both.
How to behave, what I could tolerate, how to react, how to respond etc. That was part of what I needed to learn....about addiction and about when your husband has an affair. I was not perfect. I needed to do it differently on day one than day 101 and now. I had to give myself a lot of love that I was just where I needed to be, and that more would be revealed.
In my case it was, and I immediately knew what I needed to do. I could not have made that decision a second before I did.
It was my husband's affair that finally got me dealing with the elephant in the room, his alcohol use.
I have been working on healing from both for some time.
I have come to believe that I really wanted black/white thinking around them both as I was starting to heal....I think I thought if I had that I could know what the right decision would be.
I personally believe that like substance addiction, the act of an affair involves people not feeling the best about themselves, attempting to make themselves feel good. It is about how they feel inside, but in both cases the bandage of choice just makes the wound worse, fester and become infected.
The line between did alcohol cause the affair or the affair contribute to the alcohol made me nuts.
What I did find out in this experience about both of them was the following
1. They made me FEEL similar, crazy, out of control, and like I was at fault in some way (I struggled with that for a long time around alcohol, and got a backbone about the affair rather quickly).
2. That the Three Cs worked in either case. I did not cause it, I cannot control it, and I cannot cure it. I can however make myself crazy by contributing to the chaos that they both created in my life.
3. That my recovery from both was interchangable. Al-Anon which is about addiction recovery helped me around affair recovery too (loving detachment and the Three Cs especially). Reading and learning about both helped too.
4. My disease of codependency had a way of always making me least important.....working on that with either addiction or affairs helped me with both.
How to behave, what I could tolerate, how to react, how to respond etc. That was part of what I needed to learn....about addiction and about when your husband has an affair. I was not perfect. I needed to do it differently on day one than day 101 and now. I had to give myself a lot of love that I was just where I needed to be, and that more would be revealed.
In my case it was, and I immediately knew what I needed to do. I could not have made that decision a second before I did.
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I understand the feeling of wanting some kind of absolute proof. There is none. Technology today makes having an affair so easy. Want to look at the phone? That's fine things can be deleted. Or for simplicity another phone with another plan can be purchased and hidden. You get the picture, there is no fence high enough to cage a human being.
I would prefer to deal with an alcoholic than a cheater. Alcohol can only be hidden for so long. My husband relapsed and it took me awhile to catch on though there were signs (few) that I rationalized at first. Then he progressed and it was so obvious. Cheaters not so much. They are expert liars without the telltale signs of reeking booze or slurring words. Possibly some behavior signs but its not like you can go search for their stash or smell their breath and come up with what they have been up to. Really unless you happen upon solid proof you can drive yourself nuttier than a fruitcake trying to find out.
As for alcohol "causing" someone to cheat - I don't buy into that. What I know is that alcohol lowers inhibitions. So it doesn't "cause" one to cheat rather, it unleashes the beast, it uncovers what already exists.
For me it we be the end of my marriage. I am not suggesting you should think the same its my opinion. I am a believer that once a cheater always a cheater - that is my personal experience.
Sorry for what has happened to you and (((hugs))).
I would prefer to deal with an alcoholic than a cheater. Alcohol can only be hidden for so long. My husband relapsed and it took me awhile to catch on though there were signs (few) that I rationalized at first. Then he progressed and it was so obvious. Cheaters not so much. They are expert liars without the telltale signs of reeking booze or slurring words. Possibly some behavior signs but its not like you can go search for their stash or smell their breath and come up with what they have been up to. Really unless you happen upon solid proof you can drive yourself nuttier than a fruitcake trying to find out.
As for alcohol "causing" someone to cheat - I don't buy into that. What I know is that alcohol lowers inhibitions. So it doesn't "cause" one to cheat rather, it unleashes the beast, it uncovers what already exists.
For me it we be the end of my marriage. I am not suggesting you should think the same its my opinion. I am a believer that once a cheater always a cheater - that is my personal experience.
Sorry for what has happened to you and (((hugs))).
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He,s not trustworthy.
Originally Posted by Tiggs77
OK, so my RAH has been back from residential rehab for 3 weeks. While he was in rehab I discovered some pretty serious lies that he had told. It was hard to learn about these after already knowing that he had 2 emotional affairs during his active addiction. But, I was able to open my heart and work toward forgiveness. I want this marriage to work. I do love him and I was very excited about starting our sober lives together. But, in the first 2 weeks he was home I discovered at least 2 more emotional affairs that occurred immediately before he went to rehab. I can't prove that they had sex, but there was definitely "sexting" and intentions to get together. These 2 women said that they were "in love with him". Additionally, there was one more "just sex" texting affair and he also started another one while in rehab (he says that he never met with the woman from rehab -I found the texts in which they were planning to meet - and that he had realized that what he was doing was wrong and that he cancelled the meeting). Actually, he says that he NEVER met with or slept with any of these women - he insists that he did not. He also admits the affairs were wrong and extremely hurtful even though they did not have sex. Not only did he have these sexting/emotional affairs, he also would lie to these women and tell them that I beat him up (funny, I weigh about 110 lbs and wouldn't stand a chance) in order to gain their sympathy. He told one that we were legally separated and that the marriage was over. I could go on and on, but I think you get it.
I know that all addicts lie - check. I know that these affairs are part of his addiction - check. He says that now that he is sober it won't happen again. He seems sincere, but HOW DO I BELIEVE HIM? HOW DO I EVEN CONSIDER TRUSTING HIM AGAIN?
I feel that trust is gained when one person proves to be trustworthy to another. Parents of addicts drug test their kids regularly in order to re-establish trust. I have heard of couples that do the same thing. With gamblers, you can keep tight purse strings and accounting. He is now doing a 30 day IOP and also going to AA daily. I trust in his sobriety, but I don't trust in his fidelity. He could have another emotional affair and I may never find out. He could have a physical affair and I could never find out. In fact, a friend of mine just found her husband's "affair phone" - the one that he had hidden in his brief case, that's not on their cellular account, it's a cheap, pay as you go phone that he uses to call his mistress. What I am saying is that I can't just monitor his cell phone to prove his fidelity. Also, he is the owner of his company and is therefor VERY flexible throughout the day...there is no way for me to keep track of him. (I know CODIE)
He has no way to "prove" himself to me, but after 2 years of verbal abuse and 5+ emotional (maybe sexual) affairs, I want proof. I really don't want this anxiety and insecurity. I would like to believe that these affairs were all caused by his drinking, but I also think that I would be stupid not to be anxious. In fact, if he isn't filling the void by drinking, maybe he would be more likely to reach out to other women - yes, no? He says he will call his sponsor or someone in his men's group if he feels the urge....but I have no faith in that.
He says that I need to try to trust him, that I need to let my guard down and that "time will heal" -- I hate it when he says "time will heal". I feels that his sobriety, dedication to AA and his IOP, and otherwise just being present for me is all that he can do right now to help me earn his trust. I don't feel that is enough. It's not that I want him to "pay" for what he did, I don't feel vengeful, I just want some kind of sign that things will be different...and his sobriety is unfortunately not enough. I also don't want to be the wife who dedicates her time to tracking her husband - that's absolutely not what I want.
I want to trust him, I want this to work, but with 2 kids and a lot at stake, I don't want to be a door-mat anymore.
Any suggestions?
I know that all addicts lie - check. I know that these affairs are part of his addiction - check. He says that now that he is sober it won't happen again. He seems sincere, but HOW DO I BELIEVE HIM? HOW DO I EVEN CONSIDER TRUSTING HIM AGAIN?
I feel that trust is gained when one person proves to be trustworthy to another. Parents of addicts drug test their kids regularly in order to re-establish trust. I have heard of couples that do the same thing. With gamblers, you can keep tight purse strings and accounting. He is now doing a 30 day IOP and also going to AA daily. I trust in his sobriety, but I don't trust in his fidelity. He could have another emotional affair and I may never find out. He could have a physical affair and I could never find out. In fact, a friend of mine just found her husband's "affair phone" - the one that he had hidden in his brief case, that's not on their cellular account, it's a cheap, pay as you go phone that he uses to call his mistress. What I am saying is that I can't just monitor his cell phone to prove his fidelity. Also, he is the owner of his company and is therefor VERY flexible throughout the day...there is no way for me to keep track of him. (I know CODIE)
He has no way to "prove" himself to me, but after 2 years of verbal abuse and 5+ emotional (maybe sexual) affairs, I want proof. I really don't want this anxiety and insecurity. I would like to believe that these affairs were all caused by his drinking, but I also think that I would be stupid not to be anxious. In fact, if he isn't filling the void by drinking, maybe he would be more likely to reach out to other women - yes, no? He says he will call his sponsor or someone in his men's group if he feels the urge....but I have no faith in that.
He says that I need to try to trust him, that I need to let my guard down and that "time will heal" -- I hate it when he says "time will heal". I feels that his sobriety, dedication to AA and his IOP, and otherwise just being present for me is all that he can do right now to help me earn his trust. I don't feel that is enough. It's not that I want him to "pay" for what he did, I don't feel vengeful, I just want some kind of sign that things will be different...and his sobriety is unfortunately not enough. I also don't want to be the wife who dedicates her time to tracking her husband - that's absolutely not what I want.
I want to trust him, I want this to work, but with 2 kids and a lot at stake, I don't want to be a door-mat anymore.
Any suggestions?
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 873
I'm not staying with him for money. I'm not staying "for the children", and I'm not staying because I'm scared to go alone. I'm confident in my appearance. I know I'm ok financially, the kids will be fine
You are very very fortunate. . .
Let me ask you this would you go to the store and pay full price for a brand new china bowl that is cracked or would you put it down and pick up the one with out a crack?
Just something to think of.
You are very very fortunate. . .
Let me ask you this would you go to the store and pay full price for a brand new china bowl that is cracked or would you put it down and pick up the one with out a crack?
Just something to think of.
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Tiggs--you have assured us that you are n ot staying out of financial or physical dependency or out of fear of going it alone...and, you are not worried about the children....
.....that intimacy is your draw. i believe that we humans do want intimacy in our l ives (whether we know how to handle it or not...lol).
The thing about true, emotional intimacy is that it requires vulnerability....reciprocal vulnerability. That means that we are willing to show our soft, vulnerable underbelly to another---safe, in our knowledge that they will treat us with sacred care. We TRUST that the other will bring no harm to us in our openness. That no advantage will be taken as we are willing to share the innermost parts of ourself.
TRUST is the key. We cannot risk our underbelly without complete trust.
If we cant get the trust--intimacy--true emotional intimacy--not just the hormonally driven physical aspects--takes a nose dive.
There are many reasons that a person will stay in a relationship or marriage---BUT, if intimacy is your highest desire---I do believe that trust must exist...
This is how I hve come to look at it.
LOL...many others have posted on this...so, I hope that I have not beaten this horse to death.....
I know that this is a very tough subject.
dandylion
.....that intimacy is your draw. i believe that we humans do want intimacy in our l ives (whether we know how to handle it or not...lol).
The thing about true, emotional intimacy is that it requires vulnerability....reciprocal vulnerability. That means that we are willing to show our soft, vulnerable underbelly to another---safe, in our knowledge that they will treat us with sacred care. We TRUST that the other will bring no harm to us in our openness. That no advantage will be taken as we are willing to share the innermost parts of ourself.
TRUST is the key. We cannot risk our underbelly without complete trust.
If we cant get the trust--intimacy--true emotional intimacy--not just the hormonally driven physical aspects--takes a nose dive.
There are many reasons that a person will stay in a relationship or marriage---BUT, if intimacy is your highest desire---I do believe that trust must exist...
This is how I hve come to look at it.
LOL...many others have posted on this...so, I hope that I have not beaten this horse to death.....
I know that this is a very tough subject.
dandylion
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I know so many think that alcohol can cause affairs. Um no, it does not. They are two very separate issues that have to be dealt with. Only you can decide if you can trust again. He does not sound too trustworthy to me. We all have intuition, gut feeling, whatever you want to call it. So many (including me for a time) come here to find a way to ignore what is screaming out to us. My threads for a long period of time could have all been titled,
HOW NOT TO GO CRAZY BEING MARRIED TO AN ALCOHOLIC CHEAT
First I tried to figure out what was wrong with me. Then I got help and realized it's not me and I cannot control another person. Then I got strong enough in myself to realize without him I am a much better person and will get by just fine. Then I kicked him out. And you know what...I was right. There are some struggles, but my life is a lot better without my intuition having to scream to me all the time that this is just not right..
I know many many many faithful alcoholics. I know many cheaters w/out drinking problems. They are just not the same issue. Spots don't change very often.
You deserve happy, healthy, and faithful. Can you achieve that with this man? Only you can decide. No matter what you decide, become as emoationally healthy as possible within yourself will help you be who you want to be, married or not.
I really do not mean any of this critically because I completely understand the trying to figure it all out.
Good luck and God Bless! XXX
HOW NOT TO GO CRAZY BEING MARRIED TO AN ALCOHOLIC CHEAT
First I tried to figure out what was wrong with me. Then I got help and realized it's not me and I cannot control another person. Then I got strong enough in myself to realize without him I am a much better person and will get by just fine. Then I kicked him out. And you know what...I was right. There are some struggles, but my life is a lot better without my intuition having to scream to me all the time that this is just not right..
I know many many many faithful alcoholics. I know many cheaters w/out drinking problems. They are just not the same issue. Spots don't change very often.
You deserve happy, healthy, and faithful. Can you achieve that with this man? Only you can decide. No matter what you decide, become as emoationally healthy as possible within yourself will help you be who you want to be, married or not.
I really do not mean any of this critically because I completely understand the trying to figure it all out.
Good luck and God Bless! XXX
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
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I've stayed this long because for the first time, the intimacy was real
it sounds like the intimacy might have seemed real on YOUR side but as he was not FAITHFUL to you, but instead was chippying around with other women, he had no intimacy to give you. while you were thinking, wow this is so great, he was thinking what excuse to come up with next to go do some more sexting with Miss Distraction of the Week.
you are right. you DO deserve better. you DID and he failed, epically.
it sounds like the intimacy might have seemed real on YOUR side but as he was not FAITHFUL to you, but instead was chippying around with other women, he had no intimacy to give you. while you were thinking, wow this is so great, he was thinking what excuse to come up with next to go do some more sexting with Miss Distraction of the Week.
you are right. you DO deserve better. you DID and he failed, epically.
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Join Date: May 2014
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OK - So my clarity today is that I have been codie in trying to control him. I kept telling him, "I feel that you are not as remorseful as I would expect giving the situation," "You promised you were going to make this up to me (and you haven't done that yet)," "Give me a reason (other than your sobriety and the work that you are doing with your IOP, AA, counselor, etc) that I can trust that these infidelities wont happen again"....that's pretty much all that has been coming out of my mouth for 2 weeks. I kept hoping...and I kept denying reality I guess....
I just told him that I was giving up and surrendering to this "reality". That I was done with trying to force what I want out of him. He responded positively (very AA) - saying that "now I will be able to let my guard down and trust will come naturally"...Ummm no, I never said I was going to let my guard down - I said that I was done going to bed every night disappointed.
So - he doesn't get it. And I know that if I try to "make him understand" - then I'm just being codie.
So now what? Losing hope and this reality really hurts.
I just told him that I was giving up and surrendering to this "reality". That I was done with trying to force what I want out of him. He responded positively (very AA) - saying that "now I will be able to let my guard down and trust will come naturally"...Ummm no, I never said I was going to let my guard down - I said that I was done going to bed every night disappointed.
So - he doesn't get it. And I know that if I try to "make him understand" - then I'm just being codie.
So now what? Losing hope and this reality really hurts.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 873
[QUOTE=hopeful4;4699315]I know so many think that alcohol can cause affairs. Um no, it does not. They are two very separate issues that have to be dealt with. Only you can decide if you can trust again. He does not sound too trustworthy to me. We all have intuition, gut feeling, whatever you want to call it. So many (including me for a time) come here to find a way to ignore what is screaming out to us. My threads for a long period of time could have all been titled,
Excellent point for me. Wow to have a relationship with someone and to not hear my tuition screaming priceless.......
Excellent point for me. Wow to have a relationship with someone and to not hear my tuition screaming priceless.......
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Now you move forward, one baby step at a time. Everyone (including myself) always thinks we have to rush into decisions. Nope, what we have to do is live our lives. Detatch as much as possible from what has happened. I think you are correct to leave your guard up. Work on you, what makes you more happy and sure of yourself. Go to your own meetings, treat your mind and body well. Respect yourself.
Time will show how committed he is or is not. You can choose not to live in the past while still protecting yourself in the future.
And...keep coming back! We will walk this with you!
XXX
Time will show how committed he is or is not. You can choose not to live in the past while still protecting yourself in the future.
And...keep coming back! We will walk this with you!
XXX
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more will be revealed. we just don't always LIKE what GETS revealed. like picking up rocks, sometimes there's squiggly igglys underneath.
the first thing that will happen now is you will start taking your power back. instead of looking to him to make it all better, you look within. most people don't seek out the arsonist that set their house on fire to help them rebuild. you keep looking to the person who hurt you so deeply to mend those same wounds....and he just can't hon.
that's the beautifully sucky part of learning to be self reliant and detach from those who hurt us. we think we are losing our support....but we are really just losing the headaches and games.
your RAH sounds a bit arrogant and cavalier. talking the talk, but not walking the walk.
the first thing that will happen now is you will start taking your power back. instead of looking to him to make it all better, you look within. most people don't seek out the arsonist that set their house on fire to help them rebuild. you keep looking to the person who hurt you so deeply to mend those same wounds....and he just can't hon.
that's the beautifully sucky part of learning to be self reliant and detach from those who hurt us. we think we are losing our support....but we are really just losing the headaches and games.
your RAH sounds a bit arrogant and cavalier. talking the talk, but not walking the walk.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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Originally Posted by Tiggs77
OK - So my clarity today is that I have been codie in trying to control him. I kept telling him, "I feel that you are not as remorseful as I would expect giving the situation," "You promised you were going to make this up to me (and you haven't done that yet)," "Give me a reason (other than your sobriety and the work that you are doing with your IOP, AA, counselor, etc) that I can trust that these infidelities wont happen again"....that's pretty much all that has been coming out of my mouth for 2 weeks. I kept hoping...and I kept denying reality I guess....
I just told him that I was giving up and surrendering to this "reality". That I was done with trying to force what I want out of him. He responded positively (very AA) - saying that "now I will be able to let my guard down and trust will come naturally"...Ummm no, I never said I was going to let my guard down - I said that I was done going to bed every night disappointed.
So - he doesn't get it. And I know that if I try to "make him understand" - then I'm just being codie.
So now what? Losing hope and this reality really hurts.
I just told him that I was giving up and surrendering to this "reality". That I was done with trying to force what I want out of him. He responded positively (very AA) - saying that "now I will be able to let my guard down and trust will come naturally"...Ummm no, I never said I was going to let my guard down - I said that I was done going to bed every night disappointed.
So - he doesn't get it. And I know that if I try to "make him understand" - then I'm just being codie.
So now what? Losing hope and this reality really hurts.
In my opinion Tiggs - Nothing is going to change unless you are resolved to change the situation for the better and not be a doormat.
In my experience I have a better chance of publishers clearing house to come to my house (and I don't even play) than my XAH to put effort in to change.
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Maybe all this Spiritual, Emotional, Intellectual integration stuff is working too well, (or maybe not at all . . ..)
.BUT.
If you NOT Trust Someone . . . . Do Not Trust them.
LISTEN to yourself.
Time for some more Madea?
Madea gives relationship advice Decalz - NeatNick (vodpod) | Lockerz
.BUT.
If you NOT Trust Someone . . . . Do Not Trust them.
LISTEN to yourself.
Time for some more Madea?
Madea gives relationship advice Decalz - NeatNick (vodpod) | Lockerz
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Join Date: Nov 2013
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[QUOTE=AnvilheadII;4700051]more will be revealed. we just don't always LIKE what GETS revealed. like picking up rocks, sometimes there's squiggly igglys underneath.
the first thing that will happen now is you will start taking your power back. instead of looking to him to make it all better, you look within. most people don't seek out the arsonist that set their house on fire to help them rebuild. you keep looking to the person who hurt you so deeply [\quote]
I had to copy this, because thanking you for this was not enough. What a sensational analogy - reading that was a true light bulb moment for me. Exactly what I've done for years and years, but am doing no more.
Sorry to derail.
Op....did this resonate for you too?
the first thing that will happen now is you will start taking your power back. instead of looking to him to make it all better, you look within. most people don't seek out the arsonist that set their house on fire to help them rebuild. you keep looking to the person who hurt you so deeply [\quote]
I had to copy this, because thanking you for this was not enough. What a sensational analogy - reading that was a true light bulb moment for me. Exactly what I've done for years and years, but am doing no more.
Sorry to derail.
Op....did this resonate for you too?
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