jarp

Tonight's the night when I tell ah I can't live like this anymore. As long as he doesn't drink today. I don't want to have this conversation w him when he's drinking.

It's off the back of my post the other day about me leaving the kids w him -and him drinking/ being drunk.

Should he want to know what's so bad about him being drunk or drinking around kids what do I say? He really thinks he's top notch when he's drinking... Thinks he thinks better, communicates better, organises better..... You get the picture. He's very entrenched in this excuse...and I know it's not my job to disabuse him of this notion.

But I need to feel prepared in my mind...

SoloMio

There's no set answer, and I don't think you have to explain it to him, because he'll just find a way to defend against it anyway.

BUT, I'm sure all the ACOAs here will be able to give examples of what's bad about having an alcoholic father or mother.. chaos, unpredictability, negative emotions dominating, bad role modeling, emotional abandonment, neglect of basic needs, inability to have friends over, constant living in fear....need I go on?

I'd just say, "It's not in the best interest of the family to continue this way," and leave it at that.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. If you are at the point where you know this is the right thing to do, just believe it will work out for the best, because it will.

Hawkeye13

This^

I lived it and am still reaping the "bounty" of it as I approach my fiftieth birthday.

Stung

I wouldn't use the kids as a scapegoat. I mean, obviously an active alcoholic shouldn't be around kids because the sheer influence that it's somehow appropriate to abuse any substance is unacceptable but I think you're opening yourself up to an argument there. Make this about you. YOU don't want to be around him, it's not good for you and because you're the mama the kids will go with you. There is no way for him to argue that the kids aren't being effected by his choices that way. Don't get me wrong, your kids are being influenced by his actions but he's not going to see reason or logic if he's actively drinking so it's just not a good argument for separating, especially since he'll legally still have rights to your kids whether he continues to drink or not.

I think what is most important is that you understand that you cannot make him see reason. If an alcoholic is to seek any kind of help, it has to come internally. There are no words or anecdotes that you can say to make him see that.

Soberpotamus

My mother put me through some hell. Alcoholics living with kids... not a good thing.

DoubleDragons

My father-in-law got a DUI taking his eldest daughter to college. That is just one of a million examples I have (as my in-laws are alcoholics, and so is my mother) Incidentally, that sister-in-law did not attend her father's funeral. He died of 59 due to complications from his alcoholism.

ladyscribbler

It slowly murders the love and respect you had for the alcoholic parent. It makes you resent the other parent who picked an alcoholic to be your father and then spent the rest of her life complaining about how messed up HE was. It makes you terrified of change, the unknown, the unexpected. It makes you feel like nothing you do will ever be good enough because no adult in your house was ever satisfied with anything.
It makes you seek out unhealthy relationships as an adult, because if you just have one more chance you can make it come out right this time. Except it never does.
All that and more, but why are you going to bother with logic? Even if he's not drinking, do you really think that a paltry thing like hurting his kids is going to make him see the light?

Somebody2014

My children grew up with and Alcoholic father and yes it does damage them big time. I did not see it until they were grown and boy did I find out. I hate to say it, but if I were you I would take the kids and leave. That man will not change his ways at all. It will be better for your children and they will respect you more.

NWGRITS

I haven't spoken to my alcoholic mother in two years, and probably never will again. That's what growing up in an alcoholic home does to kids. I'll be working out that special brand of screwed up for the rest of my life.

NYCDoglvr

As a recovering alcoholic I can say that the majority of alcoholics come from alcoholic families. As many here also know, we commonly marry alcoholics as well.

SparkleKitty

My mother's alcoholism and my father's codependency did long-lasting damage to myself and my siblings. And I didn't even know it was alcoholism or what that meant until I was 19. It isn't just the drinking in front of the kids that deals damage, it's the secrecy, the shame, the anger, the lying, and the constant UNCONSCIOUS reinforcement of the idea that my mother's unhappiness was all my fault, that I could fix it if only I did better.

I took what I learned in my childhood into my adult relationships and hurt myself and others. It was only through five years of intense therapy and a lot of work on myself that I have been able to overcome the patterns and behavior I developed living in an alcoholic home. I'm almost 43 and I finally feel like I just figured this stuff out, but I left a trail of destruction in my wake.

Hope4Life

I grew up with an alcoholic father and at 56 years old after he has been gone for almost 15 years, I am still dealing with some of the fallout from my childhood.

SoloMio hit it square on the head... but I will put my list down in words.

- emotional abuse
- mental abuse
- destroyed self esteem
- fear of becoming like him
- hatred of his behavior
- anger for his actions toward Mom, my Brother and me
- embarrasment for his actions in public
- learning to be an alcoholic

I believe that watching my Father and other relatives drinking constantly contributed to my alcoholism. It was 'normal' behavior in our home for everyone to drink whenever they came to our house. After all, we had a bar that was fully stocked... so why not?

While I don't blame anyone for my problem, it was taught to me by the actions of everyone around me throughout my childhood. Adults have a lot of influence over children just by the way they act.

lillamy

I absolutely agree with Stung.

It's tempting to say "well of course if it wasn't for the fact that it's bad for the kids, I'd stay with you" -- but that's not the truth, is it? His drinking is affecting you, and that's what you need to focus on.

And you don't have to explain-so-that-he-understands. He may never. You only have to tell him what your decision is.

NWGRITS

This. In an alcoholic home children are taught Don't Talk, Don't Think, Don't Feel. If only you were quieter, mommy wouldn't drink. If only you had gotten better grades. If only you hadn't bothered her after 7:00. If only youYOUYOU... We're led to believe that we are the problem, but no matter what we do, it never stops. We're never good enough. And the sick part is that most of us still desire that recognition, that affirmation that we are good enough from our A parent. And we carry this into our relationships with our spouses and children. Unless we get into recovery ourselves, the cycle just continues until someone stops.

Mags1

Gosh, NW, I switched those light switches a million times, millions of different speeds, ran up and down stairs hundreds of times, and lots more, then hopefully when my dad came from the pub he would fall asleep and not be nasty, argumentative to our mum.

I have symptoms of OCD, among a few, my legacy.

Katchie

I don't think you have to have examples of why its bad for the children. Only an idiot, or an alcoholic completely lying to oneself would think otherwise anyway.

Im sure there are a myriad of bad results in the lives of kids growing up with an alcoholic parent. I cannot speak for anyone other than what my own children have shared with me not so long ago in the midst of us living with their alcoholic father. Resentment, anger, hatred on some levels for their own father, shame, embarrassment, fear for their safety, fear for their fathers safety, unloved, overwhelmed, and the list I'm sure could go on if they were asked to really think about it. Mind you they felt all of this and their dad had no idea his drinking had this affect on them. He truly thought it didn't touch anyone other than himself; he's come to understand that isn't the case.

unsureoffuture

I can tell you from my experience. My kids are 8 and 5. My AH is a closet drinker and doesnt drink much in front of them. He also is a reclusive drunk so he is not angry, beligerant, violent etc etc. However he is emotionally unavailable as a result. AND, my kids are affected!!!

I used to think when they were younger that it wasnt like other homes with alcoholics since he wasnt angry and violent. Our situation was "different" and certainly it was better to have a 2 parent household than a broken home.

My view changed one day when my then 7 year-old came to me to ask me why her daddy wasnt like other daddies. It broke my heart to hear her describe it. We were at a large shopping outlet and there was a family next to us enjoying themselves watching turtles in a fountain, laughing, having a great time. She looked at me and said "I wish my daddy was like that daddy". You see my AH would rather stay home and drink or is too hung over... or sad and depressed... or whatever the reason.... to participate much in our daily lives.

I had gotten so used to doing everything by myself with them that I didnt realize him not being there affected them. I started paying more attention and started to realize my 8 year-old suffered from increased anxiety and my 5 year-old was having behavior problems. I noticed it increase when AH would let them down by promising something and not following through. I also started to see the overall increased tension in our household mostly from me being angry at AH for not being involved. Even though words were never spoken, kids are very smart and it and emotionally absent parent affects them. It was eye opening!!!

So yes, living with an A, even a closet A..affects kids.

peaceofpi

How does living with an A affect kids after we, the sober parents, separate from or divorce the A?

The courts (at least in my jurisdiction) believe in 50/50 custody. So kids are with drunk parent half the time. The courts pretend the drunks aren't drinking because the drunks have to agree to not drink when they have the kids. My AXH, of course, picks our child up from school while reeking of alcohol.

Any ACOA have experience with being in joint custody with a drunk parent?

lillamy

In addition to the trauma people have discussed, I've also recently thought of how growing up with an A parent has delayed some normal emotional development in my kids.

One effect that I can see in mine is that because they only have one functional parent, they become overly attached to that parent -- the entire normal process of becoming a teen, detaching from your parents, becoming your own person -- becomes all fluckered up. Mine have been in therapy for over four years now, and they are still emotionally less independent than you would expect from children their age. They are so scared of being abandoned by me, they are so concerned not to do anything that would make me stop loving them or disowning them -- because if ONE parent can ignore them and curse at them and abandon them, why not two?

I don't take it personally. But I suffer with them. Being a teen is hard for anyone. When you have to deal with "Dad didn't love me and maybe if I don't mind my Ps and Qs Mom won't love me either" is unfair and tragic.

SoloMio

lillamy, good point, and you bring to mind an extension of that which played out in my family of origin...

I once saw it described PERFECTLY in a New Yorker cartoon. It was a picture of an ocean and there were 5 little islands and each member of the family was just sitting on their own little island. The caption read "The Dysfunctional Family Robinson."

Bingo! That's exactly how my family wound up--completely emotionally detached from each other. None of us shared feelings. We all felt alone in forging our paths in life. Interestingly, my brothers and I all wound up marrying into families that were REALLY close, highly functioning and very self-expressive. I love my brothers very much, but we pretty much just walked away from our family experiences as if they didn't exist and let our spouses' families absorb us and we basked in that.