Expectations Are A Real Son of a ...
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Stung--sorry...I am not so good with legal advice. But, I can advise you on a couple of other things. I can see that you are as angry as a red-hot poker, right now. (anger covers a boat-load of hurt and fear).
Anger has always been a good motivator for me....once I have thought things through very carefully, ahead of time. I don't know about you----but, the idea of leaving the relationship is to leave it without the idea of coming back. This prevents "caving" and second-guessing yourself, once the adrenalin level drops. You may, indeed, be ready to file for divorce---I just say to do it when your blood is not boiling like hot lava.
You will be free when you do not NEED this man any longer. (you might still want him--but that is not the same as NEEDING him). It is really funny...when you no longer NEED him....the anger level drops...and, your mind comes clear. (I have been here).
dandylion
Anger has always been a good motivator for me....once I have thought things through very carefully, ahead of time. I don't know about you----but, the idea of leaving the relationship is to leave it without the idea of coming back. This prevents "caving" and second-guessing yourself, once the adrenalin level drops. You may, indeed, be ready to file for divorce---I just say to do it when your blood is not boiling like hot lava.
You will be free when you do not NEED this man any longer. (you might still want him--but that is not the same as NEEDING him). It is really funny...when you no longer NEED him....the anger level drops...and, your mind comes clear. (I have been here).
dandylion
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No to marriage counseling. We both just see an individual counselor (me)/therapist (him) on a weekly basis. He was seeing his twice a week for a few months. I asked my counselor to refer us to a marriage counselor in this area a couple of weeks ago but she's been dragging her feet on referring me to someone now that I think about it.
Well, as of current I'm not doing anything solo today unless I drop my kids off at the club again to be watched. Today is pretty much like a regular "work" day for me. The girls and I went to the beach yesterday and had a blast so I'm considering doing that again this morning. My toddler woke up asking to play with her sand toys. She's her mama's girl.
AH got up in the wee hours this morning and went to his home AA group and met with his sponsor. He was nice to me last night when he came home too, it's like Jekyl and Hyde have returned. El Sponsor helped AH come up with a schedule to follow to prevent him from making more stupid choices.
Tomorrow morning I'm going to go surfing. Which I feel like I keep saying "tomorrow I'll take care of myself. Well I know I said that yesterday but I really mean it this time." And I think it might be helpful to shoot an email off to my counselor the next time I feel like poo.
Well, as of current I'm not doing anything solo today unless I drop my kids off at the club again to be watched. Today is pretty much like a regular "work" day for me. The girls and I went to the beach yesterday and had a blast so I'm considering doing that again this morning. My toddler woke up asking to play with her sand toys. She's her mama's girl.
AH got up in the wee hours this morning and went to his home AA group and met with his sponsor. He was nice to me last night when he came home too, it's like Jekyl and Hyde have returned. El Sponsor helped AH come up with a schedule to follow to prevent him from making more stupid choices.
Tomorrow morning I'm going to go surfing. Which I feel like I keep saying "tomorrow I'll take care of myself. Well I know I said that yesterday but I really mean it this time." And I think it might be helpful to shoot an email off to my counselor the next time I feel like poo.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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marriage counseling is pretty much considered useless (and, maybe harmful) until the drinking has stabilized. Those who are familiar with addictions feel this way.
Many therapists who have not really worked with addictions are ignorant of this.
Individual counseling is generally considered the way to go in the early months of recovery.
Just saying.....
dandylion
Many therapists who have not really worked with addictions are ignorant of this.
Individual counseling is generally considered the way to go in the early months of recovery.
Just saying.....
dandylion
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Oh yeah, I have first hand experience with that and wholeheartedly agree. It's like flushing money and time down the toilet. I can think of better ways to spend both.
Up until this week we were actually getting somewhere and marriage counseling made sense as the next progressive step. We were seeing a marriage counselor both right before and right after our 2nd daughter was born last year and the counselor in not so many words said my husband wasn't an alcoholic but was on the brink of becoming one. She probably knew as much about addiction at that point as I did.
Up until this week we were actually getting somewhere and marriage counseling made sense as the next progressive step. We were seeing a marriage counselor both right before and right after our 2nd daughter was born last year and the counselor in not so many words said my husband wasn't an alcoholic but was on the brink of becoming one. She probably knew as much about addiction at that point as I did.
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Originally Posted by Stung 
No to marriage counseling. We both just see an individual counselor (me)/therapist (him) on a weekly basis. He was seeing his twice a week for a few months. I asked my counselor to refer us to a marriage counselor in this area a couple of weeks ago but she's been dragging her feet on referring me to someone now that I think about it.
Well, as of current I'm not doing anything solo today unless I drop my kids off at the club again to be watched. Today is pretty much like a regular "work" day for me. The girls and I went to the beach yesterday and had a blast so I'm considering doing that again this morning. My toddler woke up asking to play with her sand toys. She's her mama's girl.
AH got up in the wee hours this morning and went to his home AA group and met with his sponsor. He was nice to me last night when he came home too, it's like Jekyl and Hyde have returned. El Sponsor helped AH come up with a schedule to follow to prevent him from making more stupid choices.
Tomorrow morning I'm going to go surfing. Which I feel like I keep saying "tomorrow I'll take care of myself. Well I know I said that yesterday but I really mean it this time." And I think it might be helpful to shoot an email off to my counselor the next time I feel like poo.
Well, as of current I'm not doing anything solo today unless I drop my kids off at the club again to be watched. Today is pretty much like a regular "work" day for me. The girls and I went to the beach yesterday and had a blast so I'm considering doing that again this morning. My toddler woke up asking to play with her sand toys. She's her mama's girl.
AH got up in the wee hours this morning and went to his home AA group and met with his sponsor. He was nice to me last night when he came home too, it's like Jekyl and Hyde have returned. El Sponsor helped AH come up with a schedule to follow to prevent him from making more stupid choices.
Tomorrow morning I'm going to go surfing. Which I feel like I keep saying "tomorrow I'll take care of myself. Well I know I said that yesterday but I really mean it this time." And I think it might be helpful to shoot an email off to my counselor the next time I feel like poo.
Like individual therapy, al anon is just for you. To help you process your feelings, learn new coping skills and figure out if you can live with him or not. I remember at my first meeting, I saw women in their 70s and 80s crying about their drunk husbands. I thought there is no way that I will ever tolerate that or be one of them. Several years later I was back in al anon b/c I had become one of them and couldn't cope. We all have our own path to follow, but in hindsight I wish that I had paid attention to all the warning signs earlier.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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Sorry you are struggling with all of this, and like the advice of refocusing on yourself, and especially being kind to yourself. This is such a tough journey we are on-not supposed to let our A's actions effect our emotions-I get it, I do, although at the same time, it hardly even feels human 
And when they have been doing well and progressing and you finally start to feel you are going down this hopeful path together again and can let your guard down, and then BOOM, the landscape changes again, I think it is perfectly acceptable to give yourself permission for a little while to have a pity party, question everything, get mad, sad, whatever, and then take care of yourself, refocus, and regroup.
After marriage therapy w/ my hubby last week who is now 6 months sober post IP (which came after he spectacularly relapsed from 18 months sober post-OP), I was emotionally all mixed up. In many ways I am amazed how far we've come-6 months ago I wasn't sure we would be together, let alone this far in the rebuilding. In therapy we were mostly dealing with "normal" relationship stuff. I was feeling happy about how great he is doing and how committed he is to keep working his program, and how I seem to be coming along with my own stuff, etc. but then I started future tripping around, "What if this doesn't last? I don't want to lose this momentum? I don't ever want to go back!" Etc. I got all panicky and anxious, and weepy. I recovered back to focusing on being in the present, but it was a good reminder that I am probably putting too much of my current emotional happiness into "him doing well" and I probably have a lot more work to do on me.
He said in therapy that how he gets through the day is that if he screws up and takes a drink he knows he will lose everything impt to him and that keeps him in line. I actually thought that felt like a terrible way to live, that a single lapse in judgement causes a loss of everything, but maybe that is my anxiety-orientation. For me, for now, I think I could handle a "slip", if he comes clean and admits it and strengthens his program. It's the slip followed by secrets, lies, and followed by worse actions, secrets, lies, betrayal, etc. that I know I can't handle again. Secrets, betrayal, and going underground where that cycle of self-loathing and self-sabotage will flourish-I don't think I can do that. But who knows how I will really feel and what I will really do when faced with a real situation...
Don't beat yourself up for letting him stay the other night. Yes, boundaries are important and so is self respect, but you are human, and humans sometimes let hearts rule over heads, and we are compassionate, and supportive of people we care about, too. Working on our codependent tendencies doesn't mean we have to completely eschew these parts ourselves as well. "Boundaries" are black and white, but life itself is not, and the toughest decisions are tough, by definition, because they occur in those grey spaces. You strike me as pretty smart-as long as you allow yourself to have the feelings and process your feelings, and make your decisions NOT from a knee-jerk emotional reaction place (like is it time to divorce), you will know if and when the time has come.
Enjoy the surf!
And when they have been doing well and progressing and you finally start to feel you are going down this hopeful path together again and can let your guard down, and then BOOM, the landscape changes again, I think it is perfectly acceptable to give yourself permission for a little while to have a pity party, question everything, get mad, sad, whatever, and then take care of yourself, refocus, and regroup.After marriage therapy w/ my hubby last week who is now 6 months sober post IP (which came after he spectacularly relapsed from 18 months sober post-OP), I was emotionally all mixed up. In many ways I am amazed how far we've come-6 months ago I wasn't sure we would be together, let alone this far in the rebuilding. In therapy we were mostly dealing with "normal" relationship stuff. I was feeling happy about how great he is doing and how committed he is to keep working his program, and how I seem to be coming along with my own stuff, etc. but then I started future tripping around, "What if this doesn't last? I don't want to lose this momentum? I don't ever want to go back!" Etc. I got all panicky and anxious, and weepy. I recovered back to focusing on being in the present, but it was a good reminder that I am probably putting too much of my current emotional happiness into "him doing well" and I probably have a lot more work to do on me.
He said in therapy that how he gets through the day is that if he screws up and takes a drink he knows he will lose everything impt to him and that keeps him in line. I actually thought that felt like a terrible way to live, that a single lapse in judgement causes a loss of everything, but maybe that is my anxiety-orientation. For me, for now, I think I could handle a "slip", if he comes clean and admits it and strengthens his program. It's the slip followed by secrets, lies, and followed by worse actions, secrets, lies, betrayal, etc. that I know I can't handle again. Secrets, betrayal, and going underground where that cycle of self-loathing and self-sabotage will flourish-I don't think I can do that. But who knows how I will really feel and what I will really do when faced with a real situation...
Don't beat yourself up for letting him stay the other night. Yes, boundaries are important and so is self respect, but you are human, and humans sometimes let hearts rule over heads, and we are compassionate, and supportive of people we care about, too. Working on our codependent tendencies doesn't mean we have to completely eschew these parts ourselves as well. "Boundaries" are black and white, but life itself is not, and the toughest decisions are tough, by definition, because they occur in those grey spaces. You strike me as pretty smart-as long as you allow yourself to have the feelings and process your feelings, and make your decisions NOT from a knee-jerk emotional reaction place (like is it time to divorce), you will know if and when the time has come.
Enjoy the surf!
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Clarity
I think that I'm finally starting to understand one of the stickies at the top that declares alcoholism as a one man play where the alcoholic plays each role. I have always agreed with that, but now I actually understand it.
Last night, my husband was acting and speaking all victim-y. "Life isn't fair. This marriage isn't fair. Blah, blah, blah." That really got me wound up. I made him leave. I told him that he could start using his tools in his toolbox or he could leave and stay gone. Because while my husband IS a victim he is also the protagonist. I am an audience member that keeps getting disgustingly wrapped up in this show that he is putting on.
I am at the mercy of my own decisions too and while I bemoan the consequences (a la this part of the movie always makes it difficult for me to sleep at night) the benefits of being with my husband are still substantial. What I need to constantly keep in my mind is that when this movie is going good it does NOT mean that MY LIFE is going good and when this movie is scary or sad and I'm crying it does NOT mean that MY LIFE is scary or sad or bad. I cry watching movies and reading books and then life goes on and just because Katniss gets a happily ever after or because Voldemort dies does not change anything in my own life. I love characters because they're easy to get lost in and I like being lost. My husband is a character, he also happens to be real but the grandiosity that comes along when he isn't working his program isn't real…that's the acting and me becoming overwhelmed with the movie that I'm watching. Earth to Stung, you're house is still in California not in Oz and if you can't handle this movie anymore then you need to turn it off!
However, recognizing that I can't handle my husband's show is the first realization, the second is recognizing that love doesn't hinge on my being an audience member. I do not need to read a book more than once to fully appreciate what it is. I think that so many times that we, people who love alcoholics, get wrapped up in the idea that you only love a person and can only show them love if you keep yourself as close as possible to them. That's dysfunctional and whatever we have previously experienced to make us believe that sucks but the concept it so wrong. I love my husband and making him leave me alone when he's doing his victim/villain charade doesn't mean that I don't love him, it just VERY simply means that I don't want to be around him and whatever guilt or love associations that I have tied to that need to be removed.
I try to use divorce as a bully stick to make him stop. I don't really want to divorce him, I want him to stop this victim/villain stuff and I want to use divorce as the ultimate threat because my husband has similar dysfunctional ideas around the concept of love. Divorce does not equate hate and marriage does not equate love. Divorce equates to legal separation. That's it. Time for me to put the bully stick down and start understanding that I can put this book down when I become overwhelmed and come back to it later. Also, that maybe I should be reading a little less and go outside and play more. Going surfing in a little while.
Last night, my husband was acting and speaking all victim-y. "Life isn't fair. This marriage isn't fair. Blah, blah, blah." That really got me wound up. I made him leave. I told him that he could start using his tools in his toolbox or he could leave and stay gone. Because while my husband IS a victim he is also the protagonist. I am an audience member that keeps getting disgustingly wrapped up in this show that he is putting on.
I am at the mercy of my own decisions too and while I bemoan the consequences (a la this part of the movie always makes it difficult for me to sleep at night) the benefits of being with my husband are still substantial. What I need to constantly keep in my mind is that when this movie is going good it does NOT mean that MY LIFE is going good and when this movie is scary or sad and I'm crying it does NOT mean that MY LIFE is scary or sad or bad. I cry watching movies and reading books and then life goes on and just because Katniss gets a happily ever after or because Voldemort dies does not change anything in my own life. I love characters because they're easy to get lost in and I like being lost. My husband is a character, he also happens to be real but the grandiosity that comes along when he isn't working his program isn't real…that's the acting and me becoming overwhelmed with the movie that I'm watching. Earth to Stung, you're house is still in California not in Oz and if you can't handle this movie anymore then you need to turn it off!
However, recognizing that I can't handle my husband's show is the first realization, the second is recognizing that love doesn't hinge on my being an audience member. I do not need to read a book more than once to fully appreciate what it is. I think that so many times that we, people who love alcoholics, get wrapped up in the idea that you only love a person and can only show them love if you keep yourself as close as possible to them. That's dysfunctional and whatever we have previously experienced to make us believe that sucks but the concept it so wrong. I love my husband and making him leave me alone when he's doing his victim/villain charade doesn't mean that I don't love him, it just VERY simply means that I don't want to be around him and whatever guilt or love associations that I have tied to that need to be removed.
I try to use divorce as a bully stick to make him stop. I don't really want to divorce him, I want him to stop this victim/villain stuff and I want to use divorce as the ultimate threat because my husband has similar dysfunctional ideas around the concept of love. Divorce does not equate hate and marriage does not equate love. Divorce equates to legal separation. That's it. Time for me to put the bully stick down and start understanding that I can put this book down when I become overwhelmed and come back to it later. Also, that maybe I should be reading a little less and go outside and play more.
Going surfing in a little while.
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So much wisdom in this post, Stung. I especially liked the part below because I can so relate to it. I'm not with my XAH anymore but I still do this. 40+ years of living with one alcoholic (father) or another (XAH) and it's woven so deeply into the fabric of who I am that I don't even realize that this is what I'm doing. Just did it again this weekend with another dysfunctional relationship in my life. And I am in alanon and am working my steps (up to step 3 finally ) You might just try the recommended 6 meetings in alanon. It's not as scary as it sounds (the group talk thing.) Sounds like you're ready and in no time would probably be lapping many of us who are on the slooooow program, lol. I hope you had a blast surfing and your tank is refilled and ready for the next leg in the journey
) You might just try the recommended 6 meetings in alanon. It's not as scary as it sounds (the group talk thing.) Sounds like you're ready and in no time would probably be lapping many of us who are on the slooooow program, lol. I hope you had a blast surfing and your tank is refilled and ready for the next leg in the journey
Originally Posted by Stung
I am at the mercy of my own decisions too and while I bemoan the consequences (a la this part of the movie always makes it difficult for me to sleep at night) the benefits of being with my husband are still substantial. What I need to constantly keep in my mind is that when this movie is going good it does NOT mean that MY LIFE is going good and when this movie is scary or sad and I'm crying it does NOT mean that MY LIFE is scary or sad or bad. I cry watching movies and reading books and then life goes on and just because Katniss gets a happily ever after or because Voldemort dies does not change anything in my own life. I love characters because they're easy to get lost in and I like being lost. My husband is a character, he also happens to be real but the grandiosity that comes along when he isn't working his program isn't real…that's the acting and me becoming overwhelmed with the movie that I'm watching. Earth to Stung, you're house is still in California not in Oz and if you can't handle this movie anymore then you need to turn it off!
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