MissBeth

This, so much this.

My XABF told me over and over and over until I believed with my heart and soul that it was my responsibility to be the main "bread-winner" for the family as he had worked full time for 13 years (approx 3 with me), I was younger, blah blah blah, EVEN THOUGH he lost his well paying job due to his alcoholism.

After he lost his job, I wrote his job applications and he just had to turn up (sober and not hungover) to the interviews. He ended up with 2 part time jobs, 1 for 1 day per week and the other for 2.5 days per week. He resigned from the 1 day per week job without discussing it with me ($300 per fortnight), proceeded to come home and get drunk and then ask me if we could afford for him to resign!!!!!! And like a good little enabler, I told him that we will be fine, we will manage.

Alcoholics will do ANYTHING to have more time with the bottle. He wants to stay at home and not work because he has an enabler that will allow him to not work and drink and not really contribute ANYTHING to the family (sorry if this sounds harsh). That's why he gets angry at you when you try and push him back into the workforce. Because that would interfere with his drinking time. He has no desire to be responsible or help with anything because it cuts into his drinking time. He wants to hide his head in the sand and drink.

I'm sorry, but he's not going to change. And I have to ask, if he has no job, how is he buying alcohol? Are you giving him money? Unfortunately, I think the only way for him to get a job is for you to not give him any money. Then he would get a job. But not for you, or for your children or because he felt responsible, but because he would need money for booze.

You sounds like a very resourceful woman, having your own business. It's certainly something I would never be able to feel confident to do. And I'm sure your business would run ever so much more smoothly if you didn't have to babysit your husband and your children all day. Just something to think about. Sorry if this post comes off as being a bit harsh, but sometimes the truth really really hurts.

inpieces314

I know what you are going through. I know why you don't leave him. Although for me, it was different, because he only went without a job for a few months. The rest of the time he was working, and made excellent money, but never helped me with the bills. Never. Ever. He made 4x what I made. I paid everything, he was living in my house, and he still had the audacity to borrow money from me when he was broke (which always happened 2 days after payday). Don't ask me what he spent it on-that much liquor would have killed him. I am talking like, $3k a month here.

I dealt with it by putting the kids in daycare, kicking him out, and filing for child support. Yeah, daycare kills me in expenses, but they are reliable-they don't drink and drive with the kids, they make sure they get fed, they interact with them. But, that was all at the expense of the kids missing out on being with their daddy. And I don't care what anyone says, he was sober half the time he saw them (after I kicked him out, not before) and even when drunk he was very respectful-he knew I didn't need him anymore. When they DID see him, they were able to have a real relationship with him instead of some dude that is passed out on the bed all day.

For me, I didn't want to lose my kids-either because someone called CPS to report him, or because he killed them in a car accident, or whatever. That's when I drew the line. You have to decide what you don't want to lose, and it's going to have to outweigh him being in the house. But take it from me, I make nowhere near enough money to live on, but that peace of mind is priceless.

atalose

Grief, stress and slowly killing of one’s self esteem should never be the price you pay for love!!!

Tamerua

If you were to read this from a friend, what would you say to your friend? You deserve better and through action, you can get better. You know what needs to happen.

And kudos to you for maintaining a business, a house and kids.

DMC

That could have been the story of my marriage, except in lieu of children, I was working 80 hours a week in the hospital. He did absolutely nothing FOR YEARS. I pestered him and pestered him to get a job, but he never moved on it. I asked for help cleaning, cooking, with the dogs. Nothing.

I hired a cleaning lady because I couldn't manage.
He did nothing.
After years, I finished my training, took my first "real job" (aka something that paid more than the roughly minimum wage I was making) and moving to a new home, and that was sort of when I realized I didn't want the rest of my life to look like that.

Oh, he fought it.
I'm now paying alimony. (Ha - 5 more payments left!)
He point blank told me that he wanted to "go back to the status quo."
I told him hell no, that his "status quo" was killing me, and I wanted out.
This was after 8 years of marriage counseling.

Staying in would have been far, far more expensive and that divorce was worth every penny.
Amazingly, it was LESS work once he was gone because I knew he wouldn't clean the fish tank or vacuum or help out, so I wasn't stressing about it. And it was SO much easier!

You aren't getting anything out of this, are you? Well, other than headaches, stress and pain.

Fandy

amen, if you think this is what you want for the rest of your life, to be texting and babysitting both him and your children, watching where he goes and timing him while he is laughing at you with his buddy neighbor across the way, I feel sorry for you. (you have to physically hunt him down and he runs away from you and his children to the lawn, the garage, the popsickle sticks, remember that)

What he is giving you is NOT a marriage and it certainly is not an adult loving relationship. He is answering to you like teenager to a mama...and Yes, just WHO IS PAYING for his booze? he is going to ask for alimony and maybe even ask you to pay his legal fees.

i cannot believe that smart women settle for so little.
Just why can't he work and pay the childcare out of that?

Ariel1030

Wow. Thank you for the kind posts and advice. Some of you have such compassion and wonderful words, and I appreciate them.

For the 3 posters who asked how he gets beer, no, I don't buy it for him. He will get it with groceries, gas, if we need something quick. I'm not showing up at home with a 30 pack. I'm not that desperate or stupid.

Second, I don't know how this even came up, as I never even mentioned this, but NO I would never let someone less him drive drunk with my children. Who would? I'm not a bad mom by any means, my kids are my reason for living, I would die for them.

I know I can do things in my own, I always have. I left home at 17, got an apartment and put myself through school, up through grad school. I studied in Europe. I am a survivor of (*trigger) SA, Physical abuse and emotional abuse from a monster father and a mom who chose him and forced me to stay. I made it through a hospitalization for PTSD. I AM NOT A DOORMAT. I can take care of myself. I bought the beautiful home everyone told me to stay in my 1st marriage for, myself, and I have full custody of my kids. I can be, live, do on my own. I'm no doormat, trust me when I say that.

As for a few posters, I will be honest, seem to take the platform of superiority, and in reading between the lines, and sometimes it seems they are very angry and basically are saying, "you're such a dumbass for not leaving, and look at me I did, you are stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid." I think the newer people are coming for support, not to feel like crap. We already feel bad enough.

Nothing that was posted offended me. I know who I am, and I appreciate kindness and candor from well-intentioned people. So thank you so much to those that took the time to reply.

Things are changing, for the better. And as for Fandy: I'm not a dumb girl settling for less. I'm just a mom trying to find her way out of the forest, one step at a time.

Ariel1030

Inpieces & DMC - thank you!!!!

Florence

No one is saying you're dumb. There is a lot of straight talk here. And it will alternately enlighten and offend. Sit with it and consider it and keep reading. This is hard stuff and we are all in different phases of recovery ourselves.

If you're the sole breadwinner, your work is paying for his booze. You may not be driving to the liquor store for him, but he's loading up when he's supposed to be buying gas and dog food, he's using your money and goodwill. If he's drinking during the day when he's supposed to be watching the children, he's drinking while he's watching the children. You say he isn't drinking and driving during the day. Are you sure? Really really sure? Because alcoholics don't live by those parameters.

I'm only saying this because this was my life too. My early posts here are similarly frustrated and defensive. I was no dummy! I never was, but I was primed by my ****** childhood to accept unacceptable behavior in my family, and I had an alcoholic husband to show for it. I did EVERYTHING, I earned the vast majority of money, and I nagged him for years to do anything other than sleep all afternoon or work more than part time if he was working at all. The only thing that stopped it was when I told him he couldn't drink at home anymore with me and the kids, and about two years later when I kicked him out for good because he had no intentions of quitting drinking as long as he could run around and exploit my boundaries and lie to my face and get away with it.

You know how dogs with electric fences are suppose to be scared of the shock? Some of them figure out that if they take the shock, they're outside of the fence and they're free. You husband knows you expect him to work one way or another and that it makes you angry and frustrated and that he'll get yelled at. But if he takes the shock of getting yelled at, he's otherwise basically free to do whatever he wants.

So what's going to change this situation is you deciding it's no longer an acceptable way of living, and making moves to change it. He'll flip out on you as they do. But we have to learn to take a shock too.

AnvilheadII

what Florence said! if he was simply a person living in your home, not working, not contributing, drinking, ditching his supposed responsibilities AKA CHILDREN it would be apparent that like it or not YOU are supporting his endeavors. you work, you fund the bank account, and he has full access and can go buy alcohol at any time. drinks all the time. f's off. blows off dealing with the children.

you wouldn't let a babysitter get away with that.
why does HE get a special pass? for six plus years now?

nobody said you are stupid or dumb. the irony is that you are very smart savvy determined woman who has this albatross around your neck. WHY? what prevents you from sending him on his way????

inpieces314

I think, you sound like me, other than, I am still in grad school, so I am a few years behind you. I know exactly what you are going through. I am struggling how to put it in words in this thread, but I know all about it.

People say, "you are so smart, how can you stoop to this level, you know better, kick him out, you don't need him, blah blah blah." Obviously, that's not what it is about. For me, it was about the fact that I loved him. I still do. That's what it comes down to. Yeah, I did what I did, out of desperation, it was either him or me. But despite all that, I LOVED him. I still do.

And now, I deal with that crap on a much bigger level. Since he died, all I hear is "why are you so upset, he didn't help you anyway, you were doing it all on your own anyway, he was a worthless POS loser alcoholic who didn't care about you or the kids, this is what he gets, blah blah blah." It's unimaginable the things that people can say-I don't understand if they think that is supposed to make me feel better, or what, but it doesn't. I know exactly what he was capable of, I know exactly who he was, I know everything about him. Some people really are good people until the alcohol takes over, and he was one of them.

So yeah, I understand why you are reluctant to make him leave. And I don't blame you. I just want you to know that you aren't alone. I still don't think I explained this right, so I hope you get what I am trying to say.

atalose

No one called you stupid, that was a label you chose to use. No one called you a doormat, that was a label you chose to use.

See, deep down you already know the truth it's just really hard accepting it.

We put our stuff out there asking for support but often we are not ready to hear its fatal unless the other person wants to change and then do all the hard work to bring that about.

Usually what we want is the cast or the stitch with lots of hope that it will all be alright and that somehow we can put it all back together all by ourselves.

We often repeat history. Maybe your husband is not a monitor but growing up in an alcoholic/codependent household has severe I'll effects on children who end up resenting the non drinking parent more because they chose to stay.

Often when we see the clearing, they way out of the forest our fear sends us back in s direction snd we find ourselves lost again and seeking a way out.

I hope you stick around, read the stickies and keep breathing. It's 2 steps forward 3 steps back just keep moving forward.

MissBeth

Hi,

Not sure if I am one of the ones you considered to be posting from a "platform of superiority" but I certainly didn't mean for it to come across that way

I am only 2 months out of my relationship and I would say only 10% of the time do I think that I'm not a dumbass FOR leaving. The other 90% of the I feel like I deserted someone I love when he needed me, that I won't find anyone else, that I miss him terribly, that somehow I deserve to be treated like that and so on.

I admire you greatly for having your own business and supporting your family.

So I have some questions for you, and in no way am I trying to force you to make a decision or belittle your intelligence or fault your strength. I just wanted you to think about the answers to them is all.

• If you send him to get gas or something at the grocery store, how is it that he has money spare to buy alcohol? Does he not get the items you require or not fill the tank up? Or is it possible that you give him too much cash when he goes?
  
• You love him, but does he ever tell you he loves you? Or show any shred of gratitude to you for doing everything you do for the family? Or does he just expect it and take you for granted?
  
• You mentioned a therapist. Are you still seeing one? Would he go and see one? Or go together? It seems like you have tried so many things to make your marriage work, but has he done anything? Made any effort at all?
  
• He says he is a stay at home dad/house husband, but does he actually help you with everyday tasks like cleaning, cooking or laundry? Or do you actually have to do these as well as running your business? Or maybe he does such a half assed job that you have to redo these tasks to your satisfaction?

You are a strong woman. You have survived so much sh*t in your life through no fault of your own. You run your own business. You care for your children. You are a good mother. You deserve so much better than what your husband is giving you (which IMO seems like not much at all).

I wish you all the best for whatever your future holds.

Wahine

If you were not paying for his alcohol and to support him you could afford a babysitter/house keeper. Think of being able to work uninterrupted and without all the drama. Think of the children under attentive, structured care. When you have totally lost controlling, and life is unmanageable, it will be sink or swim.

Fandy

If you are the only one putting $$ into the account and he is taking it out, you are paying for everything, including the acohol.
Just how are things "getting better"? When he does work, you said he *punishes* you by
not speaking to you...
Congrats on your being able to support yourself and kids, but this husband seems to be firmly implanted in his ways of doing the minimal...how do you know for sure what he does with the kids when you are not there?
Are they his children too? Or yours from a previous marriage? How long have you been married and how long has he been unemployed?

Seren

Hello Ariel, No, you are not at all stupid. Sometimes I think we find ourselves in bad situations and just have no idea how we got there--it all happened a little bit at a time.

You know the old story, you can have a frog stay in a pot of boiling water without trying to jump out if you just heat the water up a little bit at a time.

Whether or not you stay or go in this relationship is entirely up to you, and it is a very personal decision. I hope you will stick around here and learn all you can about alcoholism. Sometimes, just making small changes in how we behave is the only way to begin improving our lives. Not all decisions have to be made this second--right now!!! You get to take your time, learn, become strong in your decisions and choices about what is right for you and your children.

Please take good care! Hang in there!!

Ariel1030

I think I need to clarify a few things:

1. The first post was a bad day. Very bad. Yes, there had been a few of them as of late. I was stressed and at my max and tore at the keyboard vilifying him. Was his behavior acceptable? No. It was immature, reprehensible, idiotic. That isn't my everyday life, every single day. There were just kind of a few bad ones, and I lost it.
2. He does not do what he did in the first post every day. Here is a usual day for is:
-get up with the kids together
-he and I make breakfast together and I get DD on the bus we all say goodbye and annoy her with waving and I kiss her and yell "have a great day I love you!" While brother & daddy yell, "bye, sister!" And "bye, scoots!" (Nickname)
-he and I do various things, I may be working, he will either be playing with DS, or doing something around the house
-he does laundry, dishes, cleans
-I also do some laundry, dishes, clean not that much
-he takes care of the yard and landscaping, at times to my chagrin, but he likes it
-If I have a client, he cleans the top floor, I take the first. We both do kitchen. He then takes DS out so I can meet w client. HE DOES NOT DRINK AT THIS TIME. EVER. We live in close quarters, and I would know, see, smell it, etc. trust me, he does not want to go to jail for child endangerment, have his kids taken away, and lose his family, or face Mama Bear. He wouldn't endanger them in that way. He doesn't drive drunk that I have ever seen, and there is a backstory to that. You'll note he doesn't go to bars - it is bc of driving
-makes lunch and dinner
-I usually do bathtime and bedtimes bc I want to
- after the kids go to bed is when he drinks, in garage only, with the music stuff - being honest, it is every night, with a few exceptions
-there are some days he will go across the street to hang out and they will have a few during the day, 1-3, I would say this is sometimes once a week, or once every 2, but it is a day where I am "off" and it's not in front off the kids, and they're in my care

Other questions:
- since that day and the day after I got very visibly angry and he knew I meant business. No more of this **** going across the street, hiding, not answering the phone, drinking in the day. No. No more. I told him he could live across the street. End of story. He has taken full charge of our DS so I can work, and I am psycho and have him on a timer if he goes across street (once since the day after) and he went for a few minutes.
-we say I love you multiple times a day. The phone, if one of us is leaving, before bed, in 90% of text messages
- we have an affectionate relationship
- he has done a better job of asking me to join him at night so we can talk like we used to (I am very deep, philosophical, and bookish - basically a huge nerd)
-he has been leaving songs on my spotify playlist that he thinks I'll like or remind him of me
-it's small, but he's been turning on music he knows I like instead of it just being his likes
- my DD is from my 1st marriage, my son with him

I am fine hearing the truth. That's not an issue for me whatsoever. It is not the first time that I have heard these things. Nobody came out and said "stupid," you are correct. It was the air of superiority bc the poster had moved on and "done the right thing," when some of us aren't there yet. I used the word stupid, but could come up with others. Deep down, no, I don't know the truth, I'm very mixed up. If it sets people off that I'm not ready to leave yet, so be it.

As far as him no working, I've given myself a date. Tonight I'm sharing that date. If he chooses to ignore it, he will have to be moved out as of that date. Own apartment, own everything. We are not legally married, just living as such, so, no alimony and divorce are not issues. Common law no longer exists in my state.

Inpieces314- I am so very sorry for your loss. My god. Thank you for responding when you have much bigger things you are dealing with. I so appreciate your empathy. When I read your post I felt like a weight lifted off my shoulders. It sounds almost exact to what I'm experiencing, less the tragedy you suffered. I'm sure you are hearing horrible things about someone you love. That's very hard. People only hear about the bad things, bc that's what we vent about. They don't see the good, or feel like love you have inside your heart. Big hugs to you, and pm me if you need a friend.

Missbeth- No! Absolutely not! Please don't even think that you offended me for a moment. And thank you so much for your post. It was very uplifting and caring. I hope you don't still feel "dumb," - nobody is dumb for loving someone. Sometimes you can't help it. To answer some of your questions - we have a debit card with online banking, so I can see anything and everything that comes out. He gives receipts. If something doesn't add up, I say something. If he's going to get beer, he's going to get it one way or another. The neighbor, friends, etc. I'm not trying to excuse, but it's the equivalent of dumping out the alcohol.

Seren- thank you for the kind words. I will take your advice and make small changes. It seems to be the best for me right now

Ariel1030

I will add getting up with the kids together is new - he started getting up w me earlier on his own. He used to sleep an hour later than me. Just feel like 100% honesty.

BlueSkies1

Ariel, I am impressed. You are taking action, and good action. Very impressed.

Yes, he needs that job. He needs it not only to contribute, and so that we don't look down on him (or anyone else in the world think badly of him), he needs it for his own dignity! Then you can be proud of him, he will be proud of himself, and see everybody gets healthier because of it! I can imagine if a man such as himself succeeds in getting a job, that he will come to you after his dignity is restored, and may even thank you for pressing the issue. Even if he doesn't, and it hardly matters, but with his dignity and self-esteem on the path to restoration, he will feel so much better about himself, and it will reflect in his relationship with his family. What person feels good about themselves knowing they are being a lazy loser? It's not like people enjoy feeling that way about themselves, and they do know it, deep down even if they are in denial.

I am the one who used the word "doormat". I didn't say you were a doormat. I said you painted a picture of a useless husband and you as a doormat. When you say "I am not a DOORMAT!" That is exactly the type of thinking you need in order to change things so that indeed you are not a doormat.

Ultimately I said that to point out that you need to force change, one way or the other, and now you are doing just that. Good for you!

Florence

Any updates? I'm curious how your AH responded to the work talk. It was always a dramatic deal at my house, followed with lots of promises. I hope it went well.