CarryThatWeight

Truly, the only one who can say with certainty if they are an alcoholic is the drinker themselves. However, it sounds like you were very appropriate, bringing your concerns to her, rather than accusing her of being an alcoholic. It sounds like you did the right thing, as previous posters have pointed out, and if she was a healthy person, she would have considered your concerns and talked about them with you. That didn't happen. Whether she is an alcoholic or not, the way she deals with conflict is a red flag. My ex BF would always deflect, get hostile, and go on the attack against me whenever I had a concern about anything. It sounds like she did this and played the martyr--in her mind, she's just happy and you're trying to drag her down. The A's I know cannot admit they are wrong and it will raise the very devil if you point out something you feel hurt or concerned about in their behavior. Trust me, a relationship with any person who does that is not workable in the long run and is quite a nightmare. I just got out of one and I'm still reeling. Consider yourself blessed. I know it's hard, but your instinct told you something, you listened, and look at the way she reacted. Don't second guess yourself. She told you everything you need to know by her reaction, in my opinion.

NYCDoglvr

Isn't it clear she picked alcohol over you? Perhaps you should ask yourself why you're even questioning the issue. Alcoholism is a progressive disease and there is nothing you can say or do that will affect her drinking. If you continue in this relationship there is nothing but pain ahead ... I'm glad for her sake she showed you who she is.

owly

Considerthis - she certainly displays many of the warning signs of an alcoholic or someone teetering on the edge of addiction. You did the right thing in confronting your concerns. Whether she is or isn't an addict, it sounds like her level of drinking is a problem for you, and that's reason enough for you to get out of the relationship. I'm sure that has to be tough and I fell bad that you're losing someone you really seem to care about. However, this road will not continue to get easier should you choose to continue to follow it. If I were you, I'd get out now, leave it behind before the relationship becomes really enmeshed in your life and so hard to get away from. Good for you for recognizing the situation early in your relationship and not excusing it away. Find someone who values you *above* alcohol - or just enjoy some single time if that's what you want. I agree with the others, you have really dodged a bullet here. Good for you. I am sending you a friendly mental hug!

honeypig

Considerthis, there was a bit of discussion in another thread that I'd like to mention here, too. Someone had mentioned the term "soul mate" and someone else said that they really didn't like that term, as it can be very limiting, implying that there is only one perfect person for you. I wonder if some of that thinking is present here also?

As others have already said, she's let you know in no uncertain terms that you are NOT #1 on her list. I saw this posted here some time ago: Never make anyone a priority who has made you an option. It surely sounds like you were only an option, and not a very attractive one, at that...

I hope you can spend some time reading here and getting an idea of what alcoholism is, what you'd be facing if indeed you did pursue this relationship. You'll also see some recommendations for reading material, such as "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. That might help you understand why you'd even consider being "friends" w/her down the road.

Glad you found us here, and I wish you strength and clarity.

considerthis

Thank you everyone for your kind and considerate responses.

Obviously the other half of this equation is that being dumped for whatever reason hurts, and takes time to get over. You put the person on a pedestal, think that they were "the one" (like honeypig said about soul mates), figure no one will ever compare, you might be alone forever, etc. Anyone who has been dumped will recognize all this.

I just pray that I am right about the drinking and that I didn't wreck something great over nothing.

Thanks again.

unsureoffuture

I'm not sure I understand how you "betrayed" her trust. You mentioned something that bothers you in your relationship...her drinking. That is not betrayal, that is stating a fact. The amount she drinks and the way she drinks bothers you. Partners in a "healthy" relationship should be able to communicate to one another the things they dislike. You did nothing wrong. A realtionship should be based on mutual give and take and not be one sided.

Her failure to admit the problem speaks volumes. You said it "she does not believe she has a problem". Right then and there is the issue. She is not going to change. She has a right to drink whatever she wants and as much as she wants. But, you have a right to not want that in a relationship. All of those things you listed are viable concerns that point to a problem. Only she can change those things. You have to focus on yourself and what you want in a relationship.

considerthis

unsureoffuture:

the "betrayal" was because I gave her specifics of her drinking behaviours that I found problematic. Some of the specifics involved things she had told me about her past. Keep in mind that she opened up to me about things in her past (e.g. past relationships, the concern her brother had about drinking, benders she had gone on in the past). I "threw" these things back in her face.

Also, she feels like I have been watching her for the past 3 months without saying anything, judging her. If I had said something sooner she would have modified her behaviour but now she must feel embarrassed. She feels really, really judged, hence betrayed. I can see her point on this, and wish I had brought things up sooner. From my perspective, however, I didn't want to believe there was a problem so I made excuses for all the little red flags I saw.

So ya, I do see how I've hurt her and I do feel terrible about it.

It is taking everything in me not to text her to apologize and ask for another chance. But I don't want to sacrifice my dignity and face further rejection (e.g. "please don't text me anymore. It's over").

honeypig

Of course it hurts to be dumped, considerthis. It's normal to wonder why, what's wrong w/me. And yes, it surely will take time to grieve the loss of your dreams.

But even if she isn't an alcoholic, she has shown how she will respond to any problem in the relationship by her response to your concerns about her drinking. Is that the response you want when discussing whether to have a child, whether to buy a house and which one, whether to change careers, how to deal with aging parents, how to handle a family emergency? You want someone who will be right there w/you, helping you think thru the issue, willing to see your side as well as her own. It's going to be a tough, lonesome slog if your partner shuts you down and blames you anytime there's a bump in the road to be navigated.

You might be interested in this thread
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...azy-train.html
and this one too
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-soulmate.html
if you haven't seen them already. Hope you find them helpful.

considerthis

Actually, honeypig, we have had other conversations about important topics and she has never run away from them. She puts a lot of thought into what we talk about and always comes to the table. This is the only topic she has run away from, I think because of how judged she feels (and the fact that I watched her behaviour for months then brought it up all at once).

This is another reason that it hurts very much to lose her, because in many other respects she was very emotionally mature and a good listener and we have previously been able to talk through anything else.

Very much questioning my judgement on this one.

hopeful4

Stay far away from her. She did what she had to do to preserve her first passion, the bottle. A life with an alcoholic is a miserable one.

Good luck to you going forward!

biminiblue

Alcoholics really believe they are "unique" and that they really need the drinks to feel normal. In a way they do, but they have created that monster and when in the grips of it honestly do not see any other way to be.

Addiction by nature is having to have more and more of that which we do not want. That is her future.

God has spared you from having to live with this pain, and someone much more suited to you is out there. Be ready for her by not being involved with this one when the right one comes along. All relationships are full of rainbows and puppy dogs in the beginning. It takes a while to see a person's flaws, and usually we hide them at first anyway. Early relationships are like job interviews, they are full of best behavior. If this is what you are seeing in just the first few months, imagine what is ahead.

Make some plans to go out with friends, talk about this with them and enjoy yourself. Add "alcohol problem" to your list of things you don't want in a relationship. This is a valuable learning experience.

Well done.

Hope2014

You did the right thing. I was just like that girl- justifying and shutting out anyone who confronted it. Hopefully she will use your reaction to change, but if not you did the right thing confronting it early and excusing yourself from the relationship. It won't get better until SHE accepts and changes and we all know that is a hard choice.

FireSprite

IMO, this is the biggest red flag flying here, but I agree that they are all very clearly red flags regardless of which one is flying a bit higher.

That she would balk so quickly & immediately deflect tells me she has been pre-judging her own intake for some time & isn't ready to be called on it. After all, she's doing a lot of fancy footwork in her mind to justify her drinking, offset it's affects (working out, etc) & prove that she can remain functional & therefore does NOT have a problem. She's comparing herself to an old-wives tale definition/stereotype of what a "real" alcoholic is - homeless, jobless, hopeless. In reality that it the biggest lie she is telling herself because it protects her inner addiction from having to delve any deeper once she dismisses those labels & gives her addict voice free rein over her decision making. So for you to poke holes in her armor like that makes her feel pretty darn defenseless.

Otherwise she would have treated it like any other mature conversation - listening, hearing, pausing to digest & thinking about what was said instead of dismissing it out of hand. Normies might even say, "Well, gosh, if it bothers you I just won't drink - it's not any big deal. I didn't realize it was an issue." Normies don't analyze their drinking & spend their free mind-time rationalizing it, judging it, comparing it to others' usage, etc.

No, she likely won't want to share any further personal info and says it's because she can't trust you, but in reality she means that she can't trust herself. Being angry with you for using the things she has shared with you in confidence as examples of your concern is classic blameshifting. IMO it would only be a betrayal to her if you specifically pressed her for sensitive info with the intent on using it against her & that's not how it sounds like it happened to me from the way you describe it here.

considerthis

Thank you, FireSprite.

I only feel better when I can convince myself that her reaction was a defensive one based on the fact that she thinks she might have a problem but doesn't want to admit it. And that she's laying the blame on me because she doesn't want to take a hard look at herself.

Then I go back to thinking I exaggerated the problem and the break-up was over nothing.

This is the roller-coaster that is being dumped.

BlueSkies1

You surprised her by not mentioning her drinking earlier, you know. Greatly surprised her. She had relaxed and was thinking her drinking was not going to become an issue. Then BANG! You brought up the unmentionable. To a drinker bringing up their drinking is taboo, verboten, not allowed.
Instantly she went on the defensive of course.

She would have modified her behavior earlier.
Ok, let's take a logical look at what that means, or would have meant.

She likes to drink. You don't like her to drink that much and think it could be a problem.
So how would she have modified it?
Drinking less? Only in your presence.
Would she have become somebody else, changing herself, drinking less altogether, because you didn't like it and she did like it?
Do people do that, change themselves for somebody else?
Not if the behavior that causes conflict is something they hold dear, or value.
She holds drinking close to her heart. Proof of that is that she went to such extreme--breaking up with you, to protect it. You DARED to question the verboten, see?
So how would she have modified her drinking?
By drinking when she's not with you, as much as she wants to.
Here's the real question--where does that leave a future for the relationship?
You could never live together, you understand. If you did, there would be no way she could do her heavy drinking away from you, not if she lived with you.
Basically what she was telling you was that she would HIDE her drinking from you. Not a good relationship, when a partner has to hide a behavior, is it?
Future: If you married her, then she would be doing her heavy drinking at home, and the conflict situation would and could, only get worse.

Imagine the tables were turned and you had an addiction to prostitutes that you hid. You can see how this would not work, as intimacy and honesty, (even if never discovered) would be compromised.

People don't change for other people unless it is something they don't care about that much and don't value in the first place, unless--unless they are doormat and will change who they are for somebody else.
Nobody with an addiction can ever be a doormat when it comes to their addiction. They will never make that choice, and if they try to, it will be temporary. That's why it's called an addiction. It comes first and is highly valued--above other things, above relationships. This is why it is stated so often in this forum and understood to be true that a person can only, and must change, for themselves, not for others. If it's not for themselves, then it's a doormat situation.

I think drinking alone is one of the surest signs of addiction. What kind of person has a party of one? For me, that is a very depressing and lonely thought. The first time I awoke to find my new husband drunk at 9 a.m., I learned right then and there that he was an addict. I naively thought that he must have received horrible, terrible news during the night via email. I was wrong. Nothing horrible had happened that night. It was the opposite. It was a lonely party of one, and for reasons far beyond my understanding, he actually liked that. They like that. To our thinking it is mentally ill. Recovered addicts and psychologists agree with us.

hopeful4

I agree with FireSprite. My XAH believes b/c he has a decent job, participates in a band at church and CR that he does not have a problem. In reality, the only reason he has his job is b/c they are not supervised very closely. He participates in the band and CR and church b/c he loves to sing and loves an audience. In reality, he does not work the CR program and has very questioning faith.

So what he seems to be on the outside to those that don't know better and the actual reality are two very different things.

For me, it does not matter. I know. My kids know. I am only interested in us at this time, I put way too many years into putting him and his recovery, or lack of, first. No longer.

XXX

ps...I was enraged when my XAH admitted to our therapist that he drank out of boredom. Here I had been looking for "the reason" all this time, in reality he was just bored. It really does not matter why, the outcome is the same.

FireSprite

I'd definitely agree that you are right on the money here - but it's hard to keep in mind that just because YOU see this dynamic at play doesn't mean SHE does, no matter how obvious it is.

One of the best quotes I have ever heard here at SR was something like, "Alcoholism is the only disease that lies to the person who has it, convincing them that nothing at all is wrong." It may be years before she sees her drinking as anything more than social or as a problem to be addressed. Unfortunately & unavoidably, it is a progressive march with addiction so there is no telling how bad things can/will get in the meantime or how many years that denial can last.

FireSprite

Yes, spot on!! THIS is why she feels "betrayed" & uses that word specifically. She would have never let you into that Inner Sanctum in the first place if she didn't feel like you accepted her drinking.

unsureoffuture

I understand what you are saying. You can look at it from the perspective of "throwing" it back in her face and "judging" her or that you were pointing out things that bother you. Shouldn't you be able to state what bothers you and expect to have a mature and honest discussion about it? You wouldn't have done it if your didn't care about her. She is deflecting the true problem and turning it back around to you. You are judging. You are throwing it back in her face. The focus is now off her and the "alcohol issue" and back onto you. You are the problem not her. She is manipulating the situation to avoid taking responsibility for herself and her actions. That is what A's do. They protect that addiction at all costs. Ultimately you confronted her about it because you love her. She told you things in confidence but that doesnt mean you can't have an opinion about it and state your opinion. It's just your opinion. She is free to accept it or reject it. The guilt and shame are her own and obviously she feels guilty about them or she wouldnt feel judged. She made those choices in her past-partners, benders etc.. You did nothing but point out the truth and how you felt about it. If it hurts her then it hurts her but denying it or avoiding it doesn't mean its not there and it doesnt bother you.

What I see in this post is she, she, she. She feels betrayed. She feels judged. What about you and how you feel? Does that matter in the relationship? Unfortunately A's are very selfish and relationships tend to become enmeshed around them and their wants and needs. The wants and needs of their partners somehow become squashed over the years. Is SHE taking into account how YOU feel? The things that SHE does that bother you? That is the question you should ask yourself. Are your needs and feelings being equally considered in this relationship? You say she would "modify" her drinking. If its not a problem for her then why not just stop altogether?

You deserve a partner that is an equal. Not one that you have to sacrifice a part of yourself or your feelings just to make happy. I'm sorry if I sound harsh but I did just the above for a very long time.

littlesister1

Well, if her brother has expressed concern about her drinking I would bet others have as well.

You called her on her BS and you are VERY lucky to have discovered this so early on.
You did NOTHING wrong.