Breaking up my family and feeling like crap about it
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asm---LOL....I don't have to elaborate on m y meaning any further---YOU GOT IT!!
I get the feeling that you feel that you must be 100% sure of what you are doing--to the point that you can feel happy and light as a feather about it. These kinds of decisions are very serious--for any of us--and, so, naturally a tremendous amount of thought goes into it. Most of all of us have some level of ambivalence and trepidation--even when we know that we are doing the best thing for ourselves and our children. Often, the right thing and the hardest thing are the same thing.
You seem to be asking for a gurantee. You know, I have been on this planet for a long time--and, been through a lot of stuff---and, I have yet to be issued one damn gurantee by anyone!!
There was no gurantee that I would survive the childhood diseases without damage; there was no gurantee that I would get the scholarship to go on to college; there was no gurantee that I would bear my three children successfully and that they would be healthy; there was no gurantee that I would be successful in my career; there was no gurantee that I would never be in a car accident or fall down the steps; there was no gurantee that my dog would never run away; there was no gurantee that I would have another love with a wonderful man (I did); and, on; and on; and on.
We make our best decisions to the best of our ability. Then, we trust ourselves and our higher power to make it through. We can what-if ourselves into a parallized state, if we allow it.
You sound like you are so unhappy with the relationship that you are ready to move on. You sound like the guilt and fear of the future are holding you back.
People leave their relationships in a variety of ways. Some leave in the dark of night with quivering limbs and little else. Some stay for so many years that all their grieving is done--and they feel little sadness. Some of us, make the decision and leave with tears streaming down our cheeks. Some of us are left--by a phone call or e-mail and have to find our way out of the forest while still in a state of shock. We move on, when we need to in a variety of ways.
Staying in an unhappy marriage with addiction at the core is not a very good environment for children. The goal is to keep a HAPPY and NURTURING family together. Yours does not sound very happy or nurturing--from your own words. Parents can still be there in a healthy way for their children even in divorce--If they are l oving parents who care!! Co-parenting can be done in a healthy way--if children are a priority.
asm--I am saying all of this to give you food for thought--in hopes that some of it will be of help to you.....
dandylion
I get the feeling that you feel that you must be 100% sure of what you are doing--to the point that you can feel happy and light as a feather about it. These kinds of decisions are very serious--for any of us--and, so, naturally a tremendous amount of thought goes into it. Most of all of us have some level of ambivalence and trepidation--even when we know that we are doing the best thing for ourselves and our children. Often, the right thing and the hardest thing are the same thing.
You seem to be asking for a gurantee. You know, I have been on this planet for a long time--and, been through a lot of stuff---and, I have yet to be issued one damn gurantee by anyone!!
There was no gurantee that I would survive the childhood diseases without damage; there was no gurantee that I would get the scholarship to go on to college; there was no gurantee that I would bear my three children successfully and that they would be healthy; there was no gurantee that I would be successful in my career; there was no gurantee that I would never be in a car accident or fall down the steps; there was no gurantee that my dog would never run away; there was no gurantee that I would have another love with a wonderful man (I did); and, on; and on; and on.
We make our best decisions to the best of our ability. Then, we trust ourselves and our higher power to make it through. We can what-if ourselves into a parallized state, if we allow it.
You sound like you are so unhappy with the relationship that you are ready to move on. You sound like the guilt and fear of the future are holding you back.
People leave their relationships in a variety of ways. Some leave in the dark of night with quivering limbs and little else. Some stay for so many years that all their grieving is done--and they feel little sadness. Some of us, make the decision and leave with tears streaming down our cheeks. Some of us are left--by a phone call or e-mail and have to find our way out of the forest while still in a state of shock. We move on, when we need to in a variety of ways.
Staying in an unhappy marriage with addiction at the core is not a very good environment for children. The goal is to keep a HAPPY and NURTURING family together. Yours does not sound very happy or nurturing--from your own words. Parents can still be there in a healthy way for their children even in divorce--If they are l oving parents who care!! Co-parenting can be done in a healthy way--if children are a priority.
asm--I am saying all of this to give you food for thought--in hopes that some of it will be of help to you.....
dandylion
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Join Date: May 2014
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Originally Posted by dandylion 
Staying in an unhappy marriage with addiction at the core is not a very good environment for children. The goal is to keep a HAPPY and NURTURING family together. Yours does not sound very happy or nurturing--from your own words. Parents can still be there in a healthy way for their children even in divorce--If they are l oving parents who care!! Co-parenting can be done in a healthy way--if children are a priority.
asm--I am saying all of this to give you food for thought--in hopes that some of it will be of help to you.....
dandylion
asm--I am saying all of this to give you food for thought--in hopes that some of it will be of help to you.....
dandylion
He thinks he is supportive because he is a good provider. That he is. But as I mentioned earlier, I had to stop going to business mixers that could advance my career because of his insecurities and it wasn't worth dealing with it when I got home. That is not being supportive.
I think I know in my heart what I need to do, I just don't want to hurt anyone. I think the fact that we have been here so many times in the past few years is very telling...of course he would say it is the alcohol. But that is only one piece of the puzzle at this point.
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asm--I hear what you are saying. I am wondering if your co-dependency tendencies are not allowing you to have your own feelings. Your feelings are as valid as anyone else's.
For example: He has been sober for 3 whole weeks and goes to a church meeting once a week ----AND YOU FEEL GUILTY---for what?---guilt is an appropriate feeling when you have done something that is wrong. What have you done wrong? Not want to be in a loveless marriage? Why is that wrong? You are allowed to feel how you feel.
Co-dependency tells us that our feelings are not as important as the other person's. That we need special "permission" to feel what we feel.
dandylion
For example: He has been sober for 3 whole weeks and goes to a church meeting once a week ----AND YOU FEEL GUILTY---for what?---guilt is an appropriate feeling when you have done something that is wrong. What have you done wrong? Not want to be in a loveless marriage? Why is that wrong? You are allowed to feel how you feel.
Co-dependency tells us that our feelings are not as important as the other person's. That we need special "permission" to feel what we feel.
dandylion
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Join Date: May 2014
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This is definitely helping work through my feelings today. Its been a rough day. Its really hard because I KNOW that he LOVES me, I just don't think I am IN love with him anymore. Its tough knowing you are hurting the other spouse.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
asm--who says that his idea of love is the same as yours? Is or has he been able to transmit his feeling for you into tangible actions that allow you to feel supported and emotionally nourished so that you can be your best person? So that you can thrive--not just exist from day to day?
Love isn't always enough to keep a relationship together in a way that it meets the needs of both partners. If it did--there would be only about 5 or 6 people on this whole forum...LOL.
Who Knew??
Some people are just not good relationship people--or just not the right one for you (me). Doesn't necessarily make them bad people. Just not a good fit.
dandylion
Love isn't always enough to keep a relationship together in a way that it meets the needs of both partners. If it did--there would be only about 5 or 6 people on this whole forum...LOL.
Who Knew??
Some people are just not good relationship people--or just not the right one for you (me). Doesn't necessarily make them bad people. Just not a good fit.
dandylion
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 93
I think you hit the nail on the head with your response. I guess I am having trouble because so many people say the left and never looked back but its not that easy for me but I am not getting what I need from him. Does that make him a bad person, no. Maybe just not the right person anymore. We were very young when we got married. I grew, developed, changed and it lots of ways he did not.
I also need to remind myself that I will feel a level of sadness even if this is the right thing for me.
I also need to remind myself that I will feel a level of sadness even if this is the right thing for me.
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The best decisions aren't always the easy ones. We have to make hard decisions all the time, but taking emotion out of it and just looking at the facts, sometimes helps us make the right decision for ourselves.
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I will be looking back at this thread everytime I have my doubts. This has been helpful and you guys are great at helping sort through feelings. You would think at my age you would know how you fer l but sometimes emotions get mixed up.
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Join Date: Feb 2014
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Dandylion has some really helpful points. Sometimes I tell myself when I question splitting that we are redefining the relationship and family. It's true it doesn't have to be everyone under the same roof. It was so heartbreaking when my son would cry those first few weeks but I also knew how unhealthy I was becoming. Now away from the craziness I can see clearly that just keeping parent together is not necessarily what's best. It's not what I dreamed of or wanted but it is what I need now. Like you I have questioned if he did stop drinking then what? It's not just the drinking, looking back there is so much more. I'm similar in that I feel like I grew so much since we were young and he did not. I really hope I am able to teach my daughter to really consider what she wants in a life partner because it most definitely is not just about love.
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Originally Posted by Chelsea1029
I really hope I am able to teach my daughter to really consider what she wants in a life partner because it most definitely is not just about love.
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Having been in a relationship with a chronic relapse that "loved" me I have been down the road you are on trying to sort out what is a very complicated subject. I didn't have children so that makes your personal situation even more complicated and I can feel your pain and dilemma.
The emotionally distant alcoholic (drinking or dry) has to do a LOT of deep introspective work in authentic recovery to have any kind of realistic chance at becoming the men (in their heart, soul and spirit) that we have fantasized that they were or they could become.
I think the problem lies with their telling us what we want to hear (I will change, I will not drink, I am a good dad, good provider etc) and the path of least resistance and avoidance of making a mistake is to just give them another chance. To let them stay in the home and most of the time they just slip back into drinking at some point.
Nothing changes if nothing changes and everybody has to get a new pair of glasses for their to be deep, authentic change in our core beings.
It does hurt to see the A hurting and for the broken codie we cannot ever be at fault in our minds so in my case I had to go to ridiculous lengths to be the hero and save everyone... a trait I have deeply ingrained from my highly dysfunctional childhood.
But we can't save anyone but ourselves and we can protect our children and be role models for how to be wise and loving in our relationships. How to set boundaries that are healthy and reasonable for all parties.
In my situation we had a wonderful therapist (psychologist/pastor) who helped us create a life and relationship recovery plan and he went to AA and I went to Alanon. While he did end up drinking I was the one who benefitted from recovery plan the most...I did get a new pair of glasses and I did learn how to take care of myself. I learned how to see him realistically and sympathetically without sacrificing myself to his disease and refusal to do "whatever it takes" to stay on the path of recovery.
The only way he learned how to live alcohol free was on his own completely bearing the consequences of his drinking without mine or anyone enabling or rescuing him. Despite incredible opportunities with counseling and support he chose to drink..its what A's do! He ended up careening drunk around the country for another 2 years before he sobered himself up for the last 9 months. He is across the country and on his own now but hopes we will reconcile. 3 years ago I would have swooned with delight at my A being sober and in recovery and jumped at the chance.
Today I have NO INTEREST ... he is not relationship material! I can see that now. I have a new pair of glasses!
I know that is long...but if you choose a trial separation and both work on recoveries separately you can always have the goal to end up counseling together to see if you can be the mates each of you wants the other to be for them. We can't pretzel ourselves into being somebody we are not and many alcoholics are just clever chameleons and can mimic being who they think we want them to be on a temporary basis. Acting can become a part of their bag of tricks while in the addiction and it is a bad habit they have to lose...becoming honest in all things at all times is a part of recovery.
I know this is long...but it is my rambling thoughts of my own past...it is like journaling and helps me work through my own past. So thanks for reading if you made it this far and hopefully something in this helps a bit.
The emotionally distant alcoholic (drinking or dry) has to do a LOT of deep introspective work in authentic recovery to have any kind of realistic chance at becoming the men (in their heart, soul and spirit) that we have fantasized that they were or they could become.
I think the problem lies with their telling us what we want to hear (I will change, I will not drink, I am a good dad, good provider etc) and the path of least resistance and avoidance of making a mistake is to just give them another chance. To let them stay in the home and most of the time they just slip back into drinking at some point.
Nothing changes if nothing changes and everybody has to get a new pair of glasses for their to be deep, authentic change in our core beings.
It does hurt to see the A hurting and for the broken codie we cannot ever be at fault in our minds so in my case I had to go to ridiculous lengths to be the hero and save everyone... a trait I have deeply ingrained from my highly dysfunctional childhood.
But we can't save anyone but ourselves and we can protect our children and be role models for how to be wise and loving in our relationships. How to set boundaries that are healthy and reasonable for all parties.
In my situation we had a wonderful therapist (psychologist/pastor) who helped us create a life and relationship recovery plan and he went to AA and I went to Alanon. While he did end up drinking I was the one who benefitted from recovery plan the most...I did get a new pair of glasses and I did learn how to take care of myself. I learned how to see him realistically and sympathetically without sacrificing myself to his disease and refusal to do "whatever it takes" to stay on the path of recovery.
The only way he learned how to live alcohol free was on his own completely bearing the consequences of his drinking without mine or anyone enabling or rescuing him. Despite incredible opportunities with counseling and support he chose to drink..its what A's do! He ended up careening drunk around the country for another 2 years before he sobered himself up for the last 9 months. He is across the country and on his own now but hopes we will reconcile. 3 years ago I would have swooned with delight at my A being sober and in recovery and jumped at the chance.
Today I have NO INTEREST ... he is not relationship material! I can see that now. I have a new pair of glasses!
I know that is long...but if you choose a trial separation and both work on recoveries separately you can always have the goal to end up counseling together to see if you can be the mates each of you wants the other to be for them. We can't pretzel ourselves into being somebody we are not and many alcoholics are just clever chameleons and can mimic being who they think we want them to be on a temporary basis. Acting can become a part of their bag of tricks while in the addiction and it is a bad habit they have to lose...becoming honest in all things at all times is a part of recovery.
I know this is long...but it is my rambling thoughts of my own past...it is like journaling and helps me work through my own past. So thanks for reading if you made it this far and hopefully something in this helps a bit.
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In terms of guilt, I once read in the book In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, "if you have to choose between resentment and guilt, choose guilt every time. It's healthier for you."
I guess I'd ask myself the following questions:
1. Are you able now, or in the future, to work on your own codependency to the extent you can life a full life irrespective of your husband's choices? This means going out to places you like to go to even if you know you will encounter negativity from your AH when you get home.
2. Where do you see yourself in 5 years? How would you feel if your fairy godmother could show you the future, and nothing has changed by then?
3. Can you really believe the truth that you are not the fulcrum of your AHs sobriety? You are not that important. He will make his choices no matter what you decide to do. I my case I am still so enmeshed in the the alcoholic dance that I often feel that he'd actually be better off without me. Not because I'm "bad" but simply because of the unhealthy aspects of the relationship dynamic that has evolved over the years.
4. Can you trust your own Higher Power enough to be able to detach yourself from the results of whatever decision you make?
5. What exactly do YOU have invested in this relationship that makes it difficult to detach from it? If you really looked at the beliefs keeping you where you are, are they the truth, or a fantasy you are projecting?
6. If you stay, are you willing to work really hard at your part in the relationship? A lot of people in the early stages of one partner recovering experience a lot of insecurity and fear because that dynamic is changing and we can't stay the same. All of a sudden we're not necessarily the "strong one" in the relationship, or the "saviour" or the "saint" or the "rock" and to be knocked off whatever archetype you have created for you and your husband is really scary. You become really vulnerable. Are you running away from that?
7. My mother once said to me in frustration, "Christ, [Solo], you're settling for crumbs when you deserve the whole cake!" Are you able to manifest your life and your being and your motherhood unfettered by alcoholic behavior? Do you have an equal partnership? What is behind his words--words from an AH, as we hear a million times on this forum, mean absolutely zilch, because most As become masters of manipulation and they know intimately our weaknesses and they manage to expoit that all too easily.
8. Alcohol is a poison and it's not just what AH is ingesting--it's more like a gas in the household that you can't escape as long as you're in the house. Your son is breathing the "fumes" of it. I can tell you from experience that your son will thrive in an environment free of toxicity, while retaining the love for his father and you. Of course there will be feelings of loss, but if you can honestly say his life will be better without 24/7 alcoholic behavior, then just trust you both will come out the other side just fine.
I hope I didn't come across as pushing one way or another as you think about this. I know nothing about the specifics of your situation, but these are some of the questions I've pondered for myself along the way. (BTW, I'm still with my AH)
I guess I'd ask myself the following questions:
1. Are you able now, or in the future, to work on your own codependency to the extent you can life a full life irrespective of your husband's choices? This means going out to places you like to go to even if you know you will encounter negativity from your AH when you get home.
2. Where do you see yourself in 5 years? How would you feel if your fairy godmother could show you the future, and nothing has changed by then?
3. Can you really believe the truth that you are not the fulcrum of your AHs sobriety? You are not that important. He will make his choices no matter what you decide to do. I my case I am still so enmeshed in the the alcoholic dance that I often feel that he'd actually be better off without me. Not because I'm "bad" but simply because of the unhealthy aspects of the relationship dynamic that has evolved over the years.
4. Can you trust your own Higher Power enough to be able to detach yourself from the results of whatever decision you make?
5. What exactly do YOU have invested in this relationship that makes it difficult to detach from it? If you really looked at the beliefs keeping you where you are, are they the truth, or a fantasy you are projecting?
6. If you stay, are you willing to work really hard at your part in the relationship? A lot of people in the early stages of one partner recovering experience a lot of insecurity and fear because that dynamic is changing and we can't stay the same. All of a sudden we're not necessarily the "strong one" in the relationship, or the "saviour" or the "saint" or the "rock" and to be knocked off whatever archetype you have created for you and your husband is really scary. You become really vulnerable. Are you running away from that?
7. My mother once said to me in frustration, "Christ, [Solo], you're settling for crumbs when you deserve the whole cake!" Are you able to manifest your life and your being and your motherhood unfettered by alcoholic behavior? Do you have an equal partnership? What is behind his words--words from an AH, as we hear a million times on this forum, mean absolutely zilch, because most As become masters of manipulation and they know intimately our weaknesses and they manage to expoit that all too easily.
8. Alcohol is a poison and it's not just what AH is ingesting--it's more like a gas in the household that you can't escape as long as you're in the house. Your son is breathing the "fumes" of it. I can tell you from experience that your son will thrive in an environment free of toxicity, while retaining the love for his father and you. Of course there will be feelings of loss, but if you can honestly say his life will be better without 24/7 alcoholic behavior, then just trust you both will come out the other side just fine.
I hope I didn't come across as pushing one way or another as you think about this. I know nothing about the specifics of your situation, but these are some of the questions I've pondered for myself along the way. (BTW, I'm still with my AH)
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While boundary setting is something for us the ripple effects of those boundaries can have a positive influence on the A. Here you have set a boundary of no longer living with an active alcoholic. The truth is you cannot have a viable, full, satisfying relationship with an A even one that is not drinking. Alcoholic behaviors continue in periods of whiteknuckling in fact often times I have seen posters complain about "dry drunk" behavior just as much or more than active A behavior.
What your AH is doing is trying to still have his cake and eat it too. Were you to cave and allow him to move back in you aren't helping him - you are hurting him. He is not seeking recovery, he doesn't view his drinking *yet* as a problem. Whether he ever does no no one knows. If he chose to get into recovery today its a very, very long road.
That you don't miss him really says a lot. Continue your path and wishing you success.
What your AH is doing is trying to still have his cake and eat it too. Were you to cave and allow him to move back in you aren't helping him - you are hurting him. He is not seeking recovery, he doesn't view his drinking *yet* as a problem. Whether he ever does no no one knows. If he chose to get into recovery today its a very, very long road.
That you don't miss him really says a lot. Continue your path and wishing you success.
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Join Date: May 2014
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I thank each and every one of you for your advise, kind words of wisdom and support. At least for this moment, I know that I am making the right decision by moving forward with not being with my husband and seeking a divorce. I care about him, he is not a bad guy but he cannot give me what I need emotionally. He doesn't even understand the term 'emotionally distant'. Never done a minute of research on alcoholics and the fact that he said he couldn't control it 2 weeks ago and now he can, is telling. I can't continue to beat my head against the wall. If the alcohol was the ONLY issue, that might be different. But there are a whole list of other issues. This will surely be a painful process for everyone but I see myself being happy and healthier without him and me and my girls having a good life. Not the same life, but a good one just the same.
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