replacing "checking out" with alcohol with other forms
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replacing "checking out" with alcohol with other forms
As everyone knows, my wife is 7+ years sober. I remember when she was drinking she would pass out a lot. She was absent a lot. I felt sort of lonely, frustrated. She doesn't drink anymore, but that lonely, frustrated feeling has continued for years afterwards.
I was wondering - anyone with an RA who has some time sober, have you noticed them "checking out" of the relationship in other ways, to replace their chemically induced "checking out"? How do you deal with it?
Thanks
-DrS
I was wondering - anyone with an RA who has some time sober, have you noticed them "checking out" of the relationship in other ways, to replace their chemically induced "checking out"? How do you deal with it?
Thanks
-DrS
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I would focus on you, let her focus on her and if you both work a program and get your own side of the street clean, maybe neither of you will turn to your respective means of checking out.
This post reads to me like you're looking to continue to focus on your wife and her being at fault for why she wants time apart.
I can remember you posting not long ago that your wife was pretty clear with you about what she felt she needed and wanted in relationship and you were skeptical of those things...
I think sometimes people check out emotionally of relationships where they don't feel their wants, needs, concerns, feelings etc... are respected or matter.
Im not sure your feelings of loneliness and frustration are because of your wife's actions or inactions.
I mean, for ex, when my xAH is a crappy father, it makes me feel upset-- sure his actions directly contribute to that feeling, but I ultimately am the one giving his actions the power to upset me...
I think it's great you're trying to figure your stuff out and if I sound harsh, its not intentional...
I am just asking you questions that I wonder about... While she was drinking you felt she was checked out, but you by your own admission were also drinking until fairly recently, and focused on other addictive stuff too right?
So, again, I think that the time apart from your wife might be best spent with you each focused squarely on yourselves individually. It sounds like there is a lot of blame and hurt to go around and it may just make any chance to reconcile more difficult if you are focused on the stuff you resent...
One of the things I like about the AA/Al Anon approach is the inventory... Looking at the stuff you're resentful about and recognizing your own role in it-- that was and continues to be really useful to me...
This post reads to me like you're looking to continue to focus on your wife and her being at fault for why she wants time apart.
I can remember you posting not long ago that your wife was pretty clear with you about what she felt she needed and wanted in relationship and you were skeptical of those things...
I think sometimes people check out emotionally of relationships where they don't feel their wants, needs, concerns, feelings etc... are respected or matter.
Im not sure your feelings of loneliness and frustration are because of your wife's actions or inactions.
I mean, for ex, when my xAH is a crappy father, it makes me feel upset-- sure his actions directly contribute to that feeling, but I ultimately am the one giving his actions the power to upset me...
I think it's great you're trying to figure your stuff out and if I sound harsh, its not intentional...
I am just asking you questions that I wonder about... While she was drinking you felt she was checked out, but you by your own admission were also drinking until fairly recently, and focused on other addictive stuff too right?
So, again, I think that the time apart from your wife might be best spent with you each focused squarely on yourselves individually. It sounds like there is a lot of blame and hurt to go around and it may just make any chance to reconcile more difficult if you are focused on the stuff you resent...
One of the things I like about the AA/Al Anon approach is the inventory... Looking at the stuff you're resentful about and recognizing your own role in it-- that was and continues to be really useful to me...
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Doc, you're giving her too much space in your head. Obsessing will not change your relationship because you are still looking at it with the same lenses on! Step back, focus on you, your kids, your job anything besides her. I can say this because if I don't work my program I become obsessed with my X. Here's an example: He did something really hurtful to me and when I asked him didn't he think his action would hurt me? You know what he said? I never gave you a thought! He wasn
t being hurtful he was just being truthful. Your wife might be saying the same thing right now, not to hurt you but maybe she has a life besides you!
t being hurtful he was just being truthful. Your wife might be saying the same thing right now, not to hurt you but maybe she has a life besides you!
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There's so much history and current issues in your relationship I think it is nearly impossible to say.
When separating there is going to be distance, naturally.
When at odds there is going to be distance.
When there are resentments there is going to be distance, especially without amends.
When you have a history of substance abuse there will be self-protective distance in her. (and vise versa-)
When she has a history of substance abuse there will be a lack of understanding how to make a connection for some time even after sober. (and vise versa)
I think your relationship from what I've read qualifies for all 7.
As for the addictive personality, it does find another addiction usually, even if that addiction appears much healthier (say running instead of drugging). Becoming a different person is a much harder task.
I feel like giving you advice to try to not analyze at this point with separation imminent, give it a break...revisit analyzing after some time apart...but then you didn't ask for advice!
When separating there is going to be distance, naturally.
When at odds there is going to be distance.
When there are resentments there is going to be distance, especially without amends.
When you have a history of substance abuse there will be self-protective distance in her. (and vise versa-)
When she has a history of substance abuse there will be a lack of understanding how to make a connection for some time even after sober. (and vise versa)
I think your relationship from what I've read qualifies for all 7.
As for the addictive personality, it does find another addiction usually, even if that addiction appears much healthier (say running instead of drugging). Becoming a different person is a much harder task.
I feel like giving you advice to try to not analyze at this point with separation imminent, give it a break...revisit analyzing after some time apart...but then you didn't ask for advice!
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Personally, if she's been sober for seven years and you've been sober for less than one, I'd be looking at you for the residual addictive behavior and not her.
Like looking for outside reasons and solutions for things that are happening entirely inside of you.
Like looking for outside reasons and solutions for things that are happening entirely inside of you.
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I know for me my STBXAH is emotionally distant drinking or not. I think for both of us, its just too much water under the bridge so to speak. I know for me, I built up a coping mechanisms by detaching emotionally from him. My STBXAH is too self-absorbed with his drinking and mental illness to be emotionally attached to anyone. I agree with everyone else above. Focusing on yourself is what is best right now. One day at a time and whatever will be, will be.
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Originally Posted by BlueSkies1 
There's so much history and current issues in your relationship I think it is nearly impossible to say. When separating there is going to be distance, naturally. When at odds there is going to be distance. When there are resentments there is going to be distance, especially without amends. When you have a history of substance abuse there will be self-protective distance in her. (and vise versa-) When she has a history of substance abuse there will be a lack of understanding how to make a connection for some time even after sober. (and vise versa) I think your relationship from what I've read qualifies for all 7. As for the addictive personality, it does find another addiction usually, even if that addiction appears much healthier (say running instead of drugging). Becoming a different person is a much harder task. I feel like giving you advice to try to not analyze at this point with separation imminent, give it a break...revisit analyzing after some time apart...but then you didn't ask for advice!
Anyways, I'll snap my rubber band and bow out of this thread. I'm tired today and it's hard to get my brain to behave.
-DrS
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Originally Posted by DocSobrietist
As everyone knows, my wife is 7+ years sober. I remember when she was drinking she would pass out a lot. She was absent a lot. I felt sort of lonely, frustrated. She doesn't drink anymore, but that lonely, frustrated feeling has continued for years afterwards.
I was wondering - anyone with an RA who has some time sober, have you noticed them "checking out" of the relationship in other ways, to replace their chemically induced "checking out"? How do you deal with it?
Thanks
-DrS
I was wondering - anyone with an RA who has some time sober, have you noticed them "checking out" of the relationship in other ways, to replace their chemically induced "checking out"? How do you deal with it?
Thanks
-DrS
Doc,
When I first started Al-Anon I thought my AH husband was the problem - how could I be ... I hardly drank and I never got drunk. There was that one time though for a year I drank every day - but I got it under control I stopped drinking like that so clearly I did not have a problem WRONG.
I have spent a lifetime checking out one way or another - uncomfortable in my own skin and needing to escape it. The thought of spending time with myself alone being so unbearable I would rather be fighting with some one then sitting quietly alone. I am trying every day to learn to be in my own skin.
I spent a great deal of time obsessing about his problems and how to control them I never bothered to consider my own. I spent a great deal of time making excuses for my behavior and using his behavior as an excuse. I was checking out because the pain of his rejection was to much to bare etc. I can look back and see I did this to all my partners - checking to the point of involving myself with some one else to escape the thought of being alone.
on the flip side - I experience him checking out. I experience the loneliness from it. I am learning to respect that is his choice and his right. I do not have to like it, I do not even have to stay married to him if I do not want to, but I do have to respect his decision. I feel like I am a small child inside throwing a tantrum when he checks out and like I have to discuss with my small child the rights of others.... like being on the playground "No Billy does not have to play with you, Billy wants to play on the swings right now, you will need to find something else to do"
Accepting the feeling of rejection from the checking out is extremely painful. It is of course my hope that he will stop checking out. In the meantime I can work on learning to respect others choices. The natural consequences of him checking out one day will likely be that I am not around for him to avoid or check out from. ( Have you ever seen that movie Click)
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Isn't there some guideline in AA that says you should wait a year to make serious relationship decisions....just noted you said you are under a year....I wonder if.....and I'm just throwing this out there you are replacing your checking out with focusing on this relationship? (My XRAH is doing that a bit and he's at 7 months almost)
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Well I'm going to be the voice of dissent as usual and say the whole flirtation thing with a younger woman (while I don't agree with the secrecy and not telling the wife) doesn't bother me that much. Honestly what I've learned is everyone's marriage is different and there are no "rules" other than what's between the two people involved. Also well sometimes we all do things we aren't necessarily proud of but they happened it doesn't mean we are bad people...I don't know. When in the thick of an A marriage I did a lot of things I'm not proud of (including throwing an entire turkey - which is actually humorous now but wasn't at the time). As for age...well I'm going out with a younger guy and it works for me so I can't comment without being a hypocrite.
However....what is obvious to me Doc is you aren't ready for a relationship with either woman at this point - you don't know what you want and you're too early in sobriety to even be thinking about what you want IMHO. My two cents is don't beat yourself up - but if you want to change your path only you can do that and to me it seems obvious neither of these relationships work. Only you can do you and decide who you want to be in all this....good luck!
However....what is obvious to me Doc is you aren't ready for a relationship with either woman at this point - you don't know what you want and you're too early in sobriety to even be thinking about what you want IMHO. My two cents is don't beat yourself up - but if you want to change your path only you can do that and to me it seems obvious neither of these relationships work. Only you can do you and decide who you want to be in all this....good luck!
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Originally Posted by Aeryn
Well I'm going to be the voice of dissent as usual and say the whole flirtation thing with a younger woman (while I don't agree with the secrecy and not telling the wife) doesn't bother me that much. Honestly what I've learned is everyone's marriage is different and there are no "rules" other than what's between the two people involved. Also well sometimes we all do things we aren't necessarily proud of but they happened it doesn't mean we are bad people...I don't know. When in the thick of an A marriage I did a lot of things I'm not proud of (including throwing an entire turkey - which is actually humorous now but wasn't at the time). As for age...well I'm going out with a younger guy and it works for me so I can't comment without being a hypocrite.
However....what is obvious to me Doc is you aren't ready for a relationship with either woman at this point - you don't know what you want and you're too early in sobriety to even be thinking about what you want IMHO. My two cents is don't beat yourself up - but if you want to change your path only you can do that and to me it seems obvious neither of these relationships work. Only you can do you and decide who you want to be in all this....good luck!
However....what is obvious to me Doc is you aren't ready for a relationship with either woman at this point - you don't know what you want and you're too early in sobriety to even be thinking about what you want IMHO. My two cents is don't beat yourself up - but if you want to change your path only you can do that and to me it seems obvious neither of these relationships work. Only you can do you and decide who you want to be in all this....good luck!
Even without referencing my status as a so-called recovering addict in his first couple of years of sobriety - there's no way I'm ready for any sort of serious relationship. This is true.
-DrS
-DrS
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Also-
Not sure what to say about the secrecy thing. I didn't necessarily intend to discuss this on the F&F forum, but oh well. Anyways, here's how I imagine the conversation might go:
"I have developed a crush on someone at work."
"Really? That's terrible. Have you been cheating on me?"
"Well, I've been extra friendly with her, I think she flirts with me. i've flirted back. I certainly have enjoyed it."
"That's awful. So have you been cheating on me?"
"Well, no. Actually that's really all that's happened."
"So why are you telling me? Just to make me feel bad?"
Seriously, I almost think that's where the conversation would go. Otherwise, I told my best friend at work, I've told my therapist, and I'm now talking about it here. I don't want it to be my little secret - because I think the more I do that the more the thing kind of gets a life of it's own an develops unhealthy momentum. As far as telling my wife, well.... I don't think I'd want my wife to tell me if she ever develops a crush on someone, absent cheating. What goes on in her mind (fantasies, etc.) is her own business.
But anyways, I'll think about a way to bring it up at MC. It's worth discussing. The secrets issue is important....
-DrS
Not sure what to say about the secrecy thing. I didn't necessarily intend to discuss this on the F&F forum, but oh well. Anyways, here's how I imagine the conversation might go:
"I have developed a crush on someone at work."
"Really? That's terrible. Have you been cheating on me?"
"Well, I've been extra friendly with her, I think she flirts with me. i've flirted back. I certainly have enjoyed it."
"That's awful. So have you been cheating on me?"
"Well, no. Actually that's really all that's happened."
"So why are you telling me? Just to make me feel bad?"
Seriously, I almost think that's where the conversation would go. Otherwise, I told my best friend at work, I've told my therapist, and I'm now talking about it here. I don't want it to be my little secret - because I think the more I do that the more the thing kind of gets a life of it's own an develops unhealthy momentum. As far as telling my wife, well.... I don't think I'd want my wife to tell me if she ever develops a crush on someone, absent cheating. What goes on in her mind (fantasies, etc.) is her own business.
But anyways, I'll think about a way to bring it up at MC. It's worth discussing. The secrets issue is important....
-DrS
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On the one hand, I'm tempted to mention it at the next MC session - What do I have to lose? I'm staring down the barrel of a year long separation. I don't want to have any complications in my life right now, and sunshine *is* the best disinfectant. I can say what's going on (since at this point there hasn't been much - the majority of what's gone on has been in my head). We have an agreement of not keeping secrets - although the secret-keeping was really about whether I was at risk of relapse or not. Not sure if this exactly qualifies.... but whatever..... and I think actually this would be extremely uncharacteristic of me to be open about something like this. I have no idea what would happen though.
On the other hand, if I brought this up next session, it would guarantee more drama. I DON'T NEED MORE DRAMA IN MY LIFE RIGHT NOW.
So, the perfect no-drama formula, if properly executed, would be
1) Stop the flirting
2) Get settled in the apartment, keep up with the rubber band, remain unengaged with the wife
3) Possibly bring this up a few weeks later in MC, just not now.
Anyways, that's my internal debate
-DrS
On the other hand, if I brought this up next session, it would guarantee more drama. I DON'T NEED MORE DRAMA IN MY LIFE RIGHT NOW.
So, the perfect no-drama formula, if properly executed, would be
1) Stop the flirting
2) Get settled in the apartment, keep up with the rubber band, remain unengaged with the wife
3) Possibly bring this up a few weeks later in MC, just not now.
Anyways, that's my internal debate
-DrS
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Originally Posted by DocSobrietist
As everyone knows, my wife is 7+ years sober. I remember when she was drinking she would pass out a lot. She was absent a lot. I felt sort of lonely, frustrated. She doesn't drink anymore, but that lonely, frustrated feeling has continued for years afterwards.
I was wondering - anyone with an RA who has some time sober, have you noticed them "checking out" of the relationship in other ways, to replace their chemically induced "checking out"? How do you deal with it?
Thanks
-DrS
I was wondering - anyone with an RA who has some time sober, have you noticed them "checking out" of the relationship in other ways, to replace their chemically induced "checking out"? How do you deal with it?
Thanks
-DrS
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Originally Posted by fairlyuncertain
Even after seven years of her sobriety, your emotions are the same, but you think it is her causing it?
Originally Posted by "fairlyuncertain
I highly recommend al anon and AA or NA as ways to keep the focus on your own recovery and to 'change the things you can.' Best of luck to you.
-DrS
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Doc-
I mean this gently, but with the utmost sincerity.
My main version of checking out was focusing on another person (to fix, to ruminate about why they were behaving the way they were, to try to make my own behavior such that I could change their behavior).
It was all about them, but it was ALL mine. The insecurity, my addiction, and my problem to fix.
I mean this gently, but with the utmost sincerity.
My main version of checking out was focusing on another person (to fix, to ruminate about why they were behaving the way they were, to try to make my own behavior such that I could change their behavior).
It was all about them, but it was ALL mine. The insecurity, my addiction, and my problem to fix.
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Doc, I am not answering on the mens' forum because I am not a man. I am a woman who has been happily married to my college sweetheart for 20 years. Only one time in our marriage did I have a serious crush on someone else. My husband had been in workaholic mode, and this man was paying me quite a bit of attention and making feel very appreciated for what I did to keep up my large family. It scared me to feel the way I felt. This man had a regular presence in our lives due to an issue with one of my sons. I decided to tell my husband about my feelings because I wanted to be accountable. Much like many of us tell on ourselves here at SR when we are feeling the urge to drink. We want to stay accountable. I never regretted this because it woke both my husband and I to areas where our marriage was getting stale and again, it took the whole fun, secretive flirting aspect away. (it removed the temptation, so to speak)
However, my marriage has always been a strong one. My husband is my best friend. We have never separated, nor been in counseling. We rarely fight and we have great sex life. We see eye-to-eye on parenting. In short, we have a strong foundation. I think I made the right decision regarding my relationship, but I am not sure it is the right answer for yours. I just wanted to be a devil's advocate, I guess.
However, my marriage has always been a strong one. My husband is my best friend. We have never separated, nor been in counseling. We rarely fight and we have great sex life. We see eye-to-eye on parenting. In short, we have a strong foundation. I think I made the right decision regarding my relationship, but I am not sure it is the right answer for yours. I just wanted to be a devil's advocate, I guess.
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Originally Posted by DoubleDragons
Doc, I am not answering on the mens' forum because I am not a man. I am a woman who has been happily married to my college sweetheart for 20 years. Only one time in our marriage did I have a serious crush on someone else. My husband had been in workaholic mode, and this man was paying me quite a bit of attention and making feel very appreciated for what I did to keep up my large family. It scared me to feel the way I felt. This man had a regular presence in our lives due to an issue with one of my sons. I decided to tell my husband about my feelings because I wanted to be accountable. Much like many of us tell on ourselves here at SR when we are feeling the urge to drink. We want to stay accountable. I never regretted this because it woke both my husband and I to areas where our marriage was getting stale and again, it took the whole fun, secretive flirting aspect away. (it removed the temptation, so to speak)
However, my marriage has always been a strong one. My husband is my best friend. We have never separated, nor been in counseling. We rarely fight and we have great sex life. We see eye-to-eye on parenting. In short, we have a strong foundation. I think I made the right decision regarding my relationship, but I am not sure it is the right answer for yours. I just wanted to be a devil's advocate, I guess.
However, my marriage has always been a strong one. My husband is my best friend. We have never separated, nor been in counseling. We rarely fight and we have great sex life. We see eye-to-eye on parenting. In short, we have a strong foundation. I think I made the right decision regarding my relationship, but I am not sure it is the right answer for yours. I just wanted to be a devil's advocate, I guess.
The part you and your husband share with me and my wife - we see eye-to-eye on parenting as well. Everything else? Different. I think it's great you were able to share that with your husband.
Anyways, the piece I struggle with is given the current circumstances between me and my wife, and given I haven't been cheating and at this point I don't intend to (although I obviously have had thoughts), is whether pursuing "honesty" at all costs in this case would just be a cover for doing something hurtful, selfish, and self-aggrandizing of me under the circumstances.
Again, I think I've made my decision as to what to do at this point, but happy to keep reading people's perspectives.
-DrS
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I really don't know which thread I am responding to right now. I'm going to respond the emotionally disconnect.
I haven't even read all the posts on this thread but I was kinda seeing it was going south.
My ex was an alcoholic, at first not so much me. In fact I started to drink, because then I was able to say, that I can't have sex after drinking because I won't feel anything. LIE. I just didn't want to have sex with a drunk, I wasn't drunk then, I used it to get me out of sex.
I started to drink more heavily because my A was also extremely abusive. I needed to numb it all out. (wrong). It only kept me there longer.
There were years that I would give up drinking, but that didn't stop him from hurting me, analyzing me, and blaming me for everything.
I took up shopping at walmart. I took up gardening. I took up anything that wasn't that expensive just to get out of the house. I was always being critisized. I had to get out, because, I'll tell you, I wanted to smack him with a shovel.
I hated being analyzed. I hated being blamed. I just wanted to be me. I wanted to be a person. I wanted to just stop the changing me so that someone could love me. I just wanted to be loved for who I was.
I found out that if I can't love the person that I am with, it's easier to leave then to try to create them to be the person you want. That's a puppet job.
Ps: Please note, he wanted to change me into a submissive wife, I just was trying to manipulate him into treating me a human. I was also manipulative, but he wanted to change me into accepting unacceptable behavior.
Sometimes walk in another persons shoes. Look where they are coming from.
(((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))
amy
I haven't even read all the posts on this thread but I was kinda seeing it was going south.
My ex was an alcoholic, at first not so much me. In fact I started to drink, because then I was able to say, that I can't have sex after drinking because I won't feel anything. LIE. I just didn't want to have sex with a drunk, I wasn't drunk then, I used it to get me out of sex.
I started to drink more heavily because my A was also extremely abusive. I needed to numb it all out. (wrong). It only kept me there longer.
There were years that I would give up drinking, but that didn't stop him from hurting me, analyzing me, and blaming me for everything.
I took up shopping at walmart. I took up gardening. I took up anything that wasn't that expensive just to get out of the house. I was always being critisized. I had to get out, because, I'll tell you, I wanted to smack him with a shovel.
I hated being analyzed. I hated being blamed. I just wanted to be me. I wanted to be a person. I wanted to just stop the changing me so that someone could love me. I just wanted to be loved for who I was.
I found out that if I can't love the person that I am with, it's easier to leave then to try to create them to be the person you want. That's a puppet job.
Ps: Please note, he wanted to change me into a submissive wife, I just was trying to manipulate him into treating me a human. I was also manipulative, but he wanted to change me into accepting unacceptable behavior.
Sometimes walk in another persons shoes. Look where they are coming from.
(((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))
amy
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