amy55

So what I am going to say here next, and don't take it the wrong way, it's only meant as help. Think of what you want in a wife. Do not ever expect her to replace something you didn't get in the past. That sets her up for failure, she can't fill an emptiness that you already have. I may be off base here, but I see blaming, analyzing and it not you looking at yourself. I also see anger.

Like I always said I love that you are here, you are seeking happiness for your own life, and sometimes answers will be harsh, or realistic.

amy55

I would love to tell you to get the book "I don't want to talk about it" by Terrence Real

allforcnm

This is an interesting question. I cant say my husband has done this since he's been in recovery, but overall I think if someone has been masking relationship issues / their own feelings with alcohol or drugs.. and then they stop using... unless they get to the root cause and fix the underlying issues... then they are likely to just replace one addiction for another.. to avoid facing the real problems in their life.. relationships included. The addiction could be anything from more intense interest in work, the children, their recovery program, volunteer efforts.. Checking out... makes sense.

I didn't read the other thread being mentioned about flirting... but I can say that I don't find it that hard to understand. Your marriage has not been healthy for a while according to your recent posts... so its likely many of your (emotional) needs aren't being met. Getting attention and flirting is filling a void... its almost like self medicating, but of course we all know that can be dangerous. LOL

When my husband was in active addiction, and we were separated for almost a year... it was a rough time. I was pregnant with our first child and alone. One of his best friend (who he no longer had anything to do with) became more active in my life - only as a friend. He would listen to me, helped with baby furniture, after my son was born he took such an interest in him. He made me feel safe, filled the role I expected of my husband. I was so mixed up, hormonal for months, and also my husband had an affair during our separation... it all left me vulnerable to this special attention I was getting. I made the mistake of taking it too far, and I regretted it. This was a person I could have probably had a legitimate relationship with, except I was still in love with husband.. I was just hurting and lost and he filled a void. So be careful... I told my husband after we got back together when he was clean. We worked through his affair and mine, and all is good now but it would have been much better had neither happened.

redatlanta

I also don't find it hard to understand. your marriage has been going South for awhile. We all look for derisions when life gets hard - sometimes they are healthy ones such as exercise, other times they aren't like this.

But you are human and lacking in connection with your wife both physically and emotionally. I expect the reason is multi layered why this has happened, both your fault, and to repair will have to be peeled down layer by layer.

Understand I do not approve of this. And its more about you than your wife. This kind of behavior is BAD FOR YOU. Talk about a can of worms - you have no idea where this could lead - really bad places and not just for you, but for your wife and children. Affairs are disastrous (including non physical ones), they only end up in one place which is utter devastation. Talk about a disease of the family.

No you have not crossed the line physically, but you have in every other way. Now in your work place you have this gal that you are leading on and you have ZERO to offer this woman but disaster. Do you get that?

You don't sh!t where you sleep dude. You could have a myriad of problems here just based on flirtations. Like losing your job. And while that may seem extreme it happens all-the-time.

As for telling your wife I think you need professional advice about that. I personally don't think your relationship can handle this information right now. This is another reason why we have encouraged individual therapy.

If you aren't going to stop, now that you are putting focus on it, then you just need to get out of the marriage because you are the one who has checked out.

involved

We have an agreement of not keeping secrets - although the secret-keeping was really about whether I was at risk of relapse or not. Not sure if this exactly qualifies.... but whatever.....

They have a saying in AA about emotional entanglements..."there's a slip under every skirt"

Also there are guidelines in step 9 about this kind of confession

http://www.aa.org/twelveandtwelve/en_pdfs/en_step9.pdf

CodeJob

Doc,

You are focused too much on your wife. She is RA(7 years is quite an achievement), ACOA, and codependent on you. Meanwhile you don't even have a year sober, are obsessed with some 20 YO chick, claim you've beaten your porn addiction, was on some harsh drug not just an A, and in these posts you consistently drag your wife's accomplishments down.you also seem obsessed with your chosen program and quick to put down your wife's program and any other not yours.

Your wife is a FTE, she has kids, she does not have a supportive family, she has dealt with you - and frankly you don't seem like much of a prize. You think you are though - which makes me think you have a delightfully manipulative PD. You have created an intricate web and like watching your bugs stumble and get caught up...

Remember when you wanted your wife to find some online support to lessen both of you constantly gone on F2F meetings? I think you've got an awful lot of bad news posted here for her to find. This is why you are in this section. To up your chances. Ten posts a day and clear about your past ID. I think you are manipulating your wife to be the one to quit your marriage. If you want your freedom - then just end this relationship. It doesn't have to be some huge drama - but you LIKE drama. If you are done - " man up" and tell her straight. But you don't want to be seen as a father who left your kids do you. You want to put the blame on her. You want to twist it to make you look good.

Set her free.

Fandy

I agree with Cj. on this one....what kind of person so "focused" on saving his marriage and worried about his family....has been carrying on a big flirtatious affair for a year....You sang a completely different song about it when you started a thread in the Men's Room.....

You went into great detail about your interactions and compliments to this woman, yet you were resentful about taking your son and daughter to get their mother a small gift for mother's day...you enjoy that exciting dance at work, but all your fancy footwork and covering up is going to trip you and you will fall on your face.
As I mentioned before, your wife is not as blind as you think...maybe she knows about your friend at work.

involved

you enjoy that exciting dance at work, but all your fancy footwork and covering up is going to trip you and you will fall on your face
As I mentioned before, your wife is not as blind as you think...maybe she knows about your friend at work.

Fandy... Doesnt matter if she knows or not...point being he knows and we know and all that manipulation and ego stroking is NOT what working a recovery program is about...and HE knows it...

DocSobrietist

A very mixed up person. But, more or less, what you're saying is true.

I don't know if I was resentful - as much as frozen.

It's possible. Wouldn't be the end of the world.

-DrS

readerbaby71

I don't know if I was resentful - as much as frozen.

Oh, c'mon. Really? Reread your post. The resentment for your wife is so thick you could cut it with a knife.

DocSobrietist

Yeah. As you might guess, I have problems with self-esteem. Just a touch.

True. And she's more that dealt with me. She's stayed with me, picked me up when I fell, etc. The scary part is feeling like the broken stuff about me has been more attractive to her than the few parts of me that are functional.

Right. I think I'm a prize. Because someone one year sober who has overdosed, been to a hospital for rehab, has gambling and porn addiction in their past, they can just look easily look at that and say, "yeah, I'm just awesome." Right.

I think it widely misses the mark to psychoanalyze me and come to the conclusion I'm thinking that I delusionally see myself somehow a great prize and everyone else in my life sucks (therefore PD!). The fact is the finding fault with everyone else is OBVIOUSLY a defense against looking at my own, broken ****, which I'm quite well aware of. Anyways, if you want to play armchair psychologist that's not something I can stop you from doing.

I don't know. Other than being pointlessly flirty with a girl at work, there's nothing here she doesn't already know. But maybe you're right.

That's a good point. I was musing about this to my friend at work. Did you know that in a good 70% of all marriages that end in divorce, the wife is the one who initiates proceedings? I think there's something going on with that. But that doesn't mean that in all those cases the men were just happy as clams and the wife was the only one unhappy. In many of those cases the men forced the issue somehow, without having to be the ones to ask for divorce. You're not the first one to have considered the possibility that I'm in that category of men who are covertly trying to force the issue. As far as leaving my kids? Not going to happen under any circumstances.

So, yes, duh - it's bad to be flirting with that girl at work. I'm going to stop. There's no way any of that ends well of it continues. All the other stuff, being critical and over focused on my wife, angry, et cetera? That's bad too. I got it. Finally, I get that I'm not good relationship material. A good five years of solid psychotherapy and meeting attendance, give or take? Perhaps then. Not now.

Finally, I get that some of you ladies are bothered about my stories of flirting at work. But do you get that I'm bothered by it too? Why else would I be telling my psychologist, my best friend at work, and this forum about it? If I thought it was fine and dandy to be doing it, why wouldn't I just not mention it and keep doing it? The fact is I'm posting it here because I don't think it's something I should do - if it progresses, it turns into something that could drives nails into the relationship coffin. What, did you think if I posted about it, I would get validation from someone, "Oh, that's great - just keep flirting, sounds like fun!"

Think about it.

Anyways, I got it. I'm a Bad Guy to some of you. (To others, I'm a good person who has done Bad Things). I'm personality disordered to some. To others I'm mixed up. I'm a dry drunk to some. To others I'm in Early Recovery. To some I'm The Problem, and my wife is blameless. To others we are in a dysfunctional dance where we've both learned our complimentary steps for years. I'll be your tabula rasa, you project what you want on me.

Feel free to continue the debate.

-DrS

biminiblue

Doc, I'm sure you have burned a lot of bridges here on this forum already.

I've been on all sides of your little stage play. I see large quantities of pain and sorrow in your immediate future if you don't stop lying to yourself.

You've got a lot of work to do.

DocSobrietist

That's true - but I don't know if that's exactly what prevented me from going out and getting her some fancy Mother's Day gift. Part of me isn't quite sure what the rules are right now.

-DrS

involved

It's possible. Wouldn't be the end of the world.

So who really looses here? The wife? I tink come memorial day she may be the winner?

amy55

To me, it is none of what you just said. You come here, you stick around here, you want to know whats going on. There are no labels that I can put on you.

I need to tell you a story, it may ring true for you, it may not.

I have a very good friend, I was friend with both him and his wife. I spoke to her a lot after they divorced.

I got or had a lot of info from her. I never used this when I talked to him, and I do talk to him a lot.

He told me that she was the greatest, but she could never give me what I needed, because I needed something she wasn't capable of giving.

Think about that.

He wanted her to give him everything that he missed in his child years. She could give whatever now, but she could never give him back the past.

I think about your anger issues, and I think where did they come from.

Perhaps, sometimes expand on thinking about your growing up years.

((((((((((hugs))))))))))))) and here for you

Fandy

I think that you acting deliberately obtuse.

it wasn't about A BIG FANCY GIFT
it was about letting your young children (remember them)? have the pleasure of presenting their mom with a small gift...

It ain't always about you snapping and yapping.
You sounded resentful about going to a short recital today, you didn't WANT to. does it feel fake?

Hawkeye13

Is what we are saying really our various "projections" or just what you've been showing us?
A tabular rasa directly translates as "blank slate" and your plethora of contradicting comments certainly does not qualify as "blank". Shifting perhaps, but not blank.

I do hope you hold onto your sobriety, and build on it.

It sounds a lot like you could benefit greatly from individual therapy,
and the time apart from your wife will provide a much-needed break from the drama / trauma you both have been living for years.

I do wish you peace, but I think there really is a great deal of truth in this thread for you to digest no matter how hard you try to rhetorically diffuse it.

DocSobrietist

Yes.

The stage play comment makes sense.

I think the thing I need to do is stop creating drama. Easy to say, hard to do when that's been my MO for the past 20 years.

-DrS

azbluesgal

Some people mess up their lives by letting their gonads control everything. I think most of us do at least part of the time (after all we are human) in our youth, but someone 40 years old with professional licenses and degrees and all the physical and emotional trappings such a life brings should have a little more emotional maturity. You really DO rankle a LOT of the women on here who have endured abusive relationships with or without the drugs and alcohol. I think the fact that your wife having 7 years of sobriety to your ONE speaks volumes. Crap - I was a psych nurse a couple decades ago, but nothing has much changed in the way humans try to manipulate each other. I wish you luck in your journey - wherever it leads you. And when ONE brings children into the world, there is more responsibility to grow up.

DocSobrietist

I think I've been all over the map. White is actually all the colors of the spectrum mixed together.

Yes.

I don't really disagree. The trick is since (still) so many of the people commenting on my contributions give contradicting advice and perspectives, it's hard to find the "truth," per se, that runs through it all.

Anyways, this is what I've gotten so far:

1) Keep looking at your own ****, because you've got a lot
2) Stop focusing on your wife
3) Stop creating drama, you don't need it, your family doesn't need it

Anyways, thanks.

-DrS