Ariel1030

I have been living with my AH - we'll call him husband because he enjoys all the things that come with it, but has never given me the proposal or acted like he wants to move forward, regardless of how many times I used to bring it up. Now I don't, and marriage has been forgotten.

I used to blame myself for all of the secondary effects of alcoholism; but now I am starting to see that it really IS alcohol. He really IS an alcoholic.

What do I do, though? I have given ultimatums. I have tried to make him "see" what he is doing to our relationship. For 5 1/2 years, since I got pregnant, he hides drinking beer during the day - every day, bc he refuses to work - and will have his first anywhere from 1 pm to 4 at the latest. He hides in the garage while I take care of kids. I own a business and have a lot to do, but he will do anything to hide from me and avoid taking care of children.

He gives me NO attention. Don't people come together at the end of the night? Or do at least some things together? We do nothing. Ever. I have begged for attention. Then ignore him and he gets enraged, bc he seems to not be able to stand for people "disrespecting" him.

Yesterday was MD and I am guessing nobody got anything, but the fun of watching them drink your day away. I confronted AH bc I was ready to blow, so he tells me we will (while drinking), watch my fave show and he will giver a massage. He poured freezing cold lotion on my back and took it as an opp to "get some". Sorry, TMI. I was like, no! So he leaves 3 times to smoke (drink) during the show and at that point I was just done. The 6th consecutive crappy MD in a row. When will I learn? Stop hoping and clinging in despair?

WHY doesn't he give me attention?
WHY does he deny being alcoholic when he drinks alone daily & says he can quit whenever he wants?
WHY does he become enraged at me brining up getting a job?
WHY AM I NOT ENOUGH FOR HIM?
Why does he treat me as If I'm invisible?
Why when I try to discuss these things he deflects and gets angry and we get nowhere? And then he goes back to doing the SAME thing the very next day?

And most of all: whaT is with the self-centered mess and self-absorption? It's like he can't see past himself, has zero empathy for me, and could generally care less?

When we were dating I thought I'd found a soulmate...then the second I got pregnant he left me emotionally, just threw me in the trash.

Please help

Hammer

Been through a LOT of that myself. (I am a guy) The reverse of roles does not make a lot of difference.

Understand that in many cases, Alcohol is not so much the issue as it a symptom.

There is a LOT of Mental Illness issues underlying Alcoholism and Addictions.

When you get deeper in -- there is a LOT more to learn. The whole "soulmate" thing is really "mirroring." That is where they copy and reflect you/yourself, as they do not really have a passable persona on their own. We become so entangled that we think it all is real.

inpieces314

I had one of them, once.

It didn't last as long as you have, though. I was the same way, felt the same, acted the same. But one day I realized that the fiercely independent person that makes me who I am was lost; he convinced me that I was the one who had the issues, needed him, etc.

It wasn't true. I didn't know this until he went to rehab and I HAD to live without him (which really wasn't any different than when he was here, if you know what I mean). While he was there, I wrote him a letter every night, in a journal. And it's so obvious when the change happened, when I realized that, oh wait, I was the one with the JOB and KIDS and RESPONSIBILITIES and he had none of that. It was like, day 14 out of 37.

I was reading this journal the other day and it was just so sad. It literally took him not being there disrupting everything with his disease for me to realize what I was missing.

Life.

It's true-you don't really know what you've got til it's gone (a quote by the ever-fantastic Mike Shinoda of Linkin Park, if you were wondering). Both the good and the bad.

Designgrl

This is what alcoholics are! It has nothing to do with you at all...it's really all about their alcohol. You are in a relationship with an active alcoholic, this is what active alcoholics are like. Have you gone to al-anon? Reading posts on this board and going to to al-anon has helped me tremendously in understanding the "whys" of the behaviors of alcoholics.

NWGRITS

Congratulations, you've got a bona fide alcoholic on your hands. And none of his drinking or general asshat behavior has anything to do with you. He's just doing what alcoholics do. He isn't doing anything TO you, TO your relationship. He's just doing. Period. Alcoholics will do whatever it takes to protect the relationship with their first love, which is the alcohol, not you. You can't change him, so what are you doing to change yourself? You're obviously unhappy, and I can tell you that running on the hamster wheel of living with an active A isn't ever going to get you anywhere but let down repeatedly. Alcoholism is a progressive disease. Unless/until he gets to a point where HE WANTS HELP, it's just going to get worse. So, what are you doing to take care of yourself and your child?

Ariel1030

Thank you so much for your words. I really can't thank you enough. I'm so happy I found this board. I guess my question is this: I've cried wolf so many times he no longer takes me seriously and finds me so totally annoying (and his son, too, judging by his behavior) that what action can I take now? Is it detachment and one day at a time? I know that I need to say, no more alcohol, but he will just sneak and do it anyway or quit and be a total jerk until I give in, or not speak until I ask what's wrong and he will say he has "nothing" in his life - basically, I'll be punished. And to no avail - I don't have a very good support system with the kids and after 2-3 weeks alone with them and running a biz (while he lives it up a friends' houses), he knows I'll give in bc of exhaustion and lack of resources. I know it's a cop out, get a sitter, xyz, and truthful I am afraid that it's been so long dealing w this that this time he will think it's too much fighting and too much crap and he will walk away. After baby #2, I'm not as skinny or pretty as I was and feel he looks at me like he can do so much better or something? Does that make sense (in a horrible way)?

The saddest thing is that I DO love him. I DO. Shamefully, regardlessly. I want nothing more than for him to just stop it...He has to hit rock bottom, and so many times I thought he had. But nothing seems to faze him. Not being kicked out, not orders of peotection, family involvement, taking away access to income, moving in with his strict parents, just...nothing.

I went to grad school for counseling, am a feminist, and am the very last person in the world anyone ever saw putting up with this. I've been to the women's shelter and they explained the cycle of abuse. Yet, I can't help myself.

Should I have an intervention? Or is it just detachment? I'm at a loss and friends have no clue what I'm going through. "Just kick him out; dins someone else; move on; you're stupid" is all I hear from them, or my personal fave, "I just don't know what to tell you."

Again, thank you for allowing me to vent, for your kind words and honesty.

((Hugs))
Ariel1030

Ariel1030

Ps, reading and rereading your posts - I will look around myself - but if any of you know where I can read offhand here or elsewhere I would so appreciate it. What drew me to the forum is the post You Are Not A Victim You Are A Target and the Alcoholic in a Relationship.

Thank you in advance-
Ariel1030

BoxinRotz

Denial. Selfishness. Self centered. Self absorbed. Entitlement. Inebriated.

All of these things lead to an unproductive conversation for resolution.

He ain't done til his life sucks so damn bad that being sober is better than being a worthless, jobless, lonely, broke, POS drunk! As long as you're watching the kids, running a successful business, cleaning the house, paying the bills and his beer tab, he's got no reason to stop. In fact, you telling him to stop drinking n get a job is coming between him n his beer time and consumption and he's mad! How dare you?! lol.

If you're tired of it, be grateful he didn't marry you and pack his crap n kick him out!!! Then take yourself n the kids out to eat!

inpieces314

Personally I would detach (and also kick him out). Don't ask your friends what to do, they just don't know any better, and it may alienate them some. Although we are no better-I remember telling people to kick people out when I still had the ABF here, so. All anyone can do is tell you what they did, and you go from there.

So yeah. I detached. I tell you right now, if I hadn't have done that, I would not have gotten into law school. I had the drive, but not the focus, if that makes any sense. I was too busy worrying about him, although now I regret it (although that is just me personally-if things had been different I wouldn't regret it). And it was hard-very hard to go to full time law school (which is 2 hours away from my house, so I was gone like 12 hours a day) part time job, full time single parent. I had time for nothing. Seriously.

I am glad when I detached that I had all that crap to do. I actually said that-I would mourn the loss of the relationship but I don't have the time. It kept my mind off of things. It kept me focusing on me, which is where I needed to be anyway.

You sound very busy yourself. If that is what you decide to do, you will be fine. You won't be home moping about it all day because you have nothing else to do. Here and there (and especially more in the beginning) you will be upset, but then you will start to see the calm and peace that never could have been achieved if he was there.

Or that's my experience, anyway.

Hopeworks

Thank your lucky stars you did not marry him! What a favor he did for you legally.

If you love him you can help him grow up so he can be a decent dad (hopefully) by putting him out (I assume it is your home, your food, your electric etc) and filing for child support.
In this way he can get a job or not to support his kids... of course you will be the villain but trust me...you are doing him a favor.

Having a comfy nest to drink oneself to oblivion without any responsibilities will progress to even more insanity, cruelty and eventually he will spiral into more consequences. It is not good for kids to be witnessing all of this dysfunction in your relationships either...

The question you need to ask yourself if this is as good as it is ever going to get (it is) am I willing to spend the rest of my life with this man just as he is? Because this is who he is! Wring the alcohol out of the asshat and all you have left is a dry asshat.

Curbing him is not talk it is action. It is a boundary... you can learn about boundaries and how to fairly set them in place and enforce them. They are for you...for your emotional health...your peace... your serenity...your future and your childrens future.

It isn't easy... I was enmeshed and crazy sick in "love" with an A 4 years ago... I finally had to do what you are contemplating (no kids thank goodness) and it was hard!!! But it was soooooo worth it... today I am happy and free. The XA got sober but I don't want him back!

Why put my neck back in the noose willingly? I am free of that insanity and A's eventually pick up again except for a tiny, teeny, itsy bitsy percentage that embrace authentic recovery and make it the rest of his life sober and EMOTIONALLY HEALTHY AND AVAILABLE to love others unselfishly.

You get to choose how you live the rest of your life. Take care of yourself and one day at a time. Find alanon meetings and stick around...we care.

redatlanta

Gosh I am really sorry you are going through all this.

"Rock Bottom" does not exist for all alcoholics. For those who have one No one knows what anyone's "rock bottom" is including An the A - your AH has endured many consequences without any change in behavior so I would say you are dealing with a very hard core addict.

Its time to move on from thinking you can fix him. You cannot. Interventions are seldom successful - forget that too. Get this YOU DON"T OWE THIS MAN YOUR LIFE TO SAVE HIS OWN.

The reason your friends are saying what they are saying is because they have been watching this train wreck for years. What have they ever said or advised that has helped? How many times have they endured your pain only to watch you get back on the merry go round of crazy again? There isn't anything more to say to you they have already said it (many times I am sure).

The problem here is your lack of understanding about addiction and inability to help yourself and your children because of your codependent behavior. All of your focus in on the alcoholic - I don't mean that you neglect your kids - however, you are so focused on him that you have lost yourself. Alcoholism and addiction are incredibly selfish. "Why am I not enough for him"? Not personal. A's live to drink like we breath oxygen. YOU will never be enough for him to quit drinking. That has to come from within him.

I'm not as skinny or pretty as I was and feel he looks at me like he can do so much better or something? Does that make sense (in a horrible way)? Do you think AH is a catch? You think women will be falling over themselves to sign up for this? You are just so beat down that you cannot see you do have value, this man has treated you like a doormat so now that's what you see in yourself.

I recommend you get into Al Anon as soon as possible. On a side note you might also do some reading about raising children in an alcoholic home. THe results are pretty devastating.

Designgrl

I left my STBXAH at the end of January after finding out about his girlfriend in December. This was my rock bottom. I never wish to repeat the soul killing sadness that I went through those months of December-February. My Father told me..."Put your big girl pants on because this is gonna be hard, but you can do it because you know you deserve better! He was right, it was hard, but now standing where I am in May, it was so worth it! When I was with my AH, I lived in such a fog. I was so concerned all the time about his feelings and his needs, and so was he! LOL I gave away all my power and believed the lies and manipulations he said about me to me. I lost myself in his alcoholic stickin thinkin, his alcoholic fog. So, I decided enough was enough and pulled my head outta my a** and grieve the loss of my dreams with him.

You are stronger than you think. I say kick his butt out and hire a live in nanny! You will probably get more support from paying the live in nanny than paying an actively drinking alcoholic! Go to al-anon, read the boards here, take up walking, write a journal, be sad, cry, be angry...feelings can't hurt you and it's important to really feel them. Trust me, they fade and you will laugh and smile eventually again! You can do it!

m1k3

Hi Ariel and welcome. You have found a place where you can vent, share your emotions and just be yourself without having to worry about having it thrown back in your face or twisted for some strange reason running through the A's mind.

One of the biggest things that helped me was the 3 c's.

I didn't cause it.
I can't control it.
I can't cure it.

Once I really accepted this it took a huge weight off my shoulders. As you will hear around here, not my monkey, not my circus.

What this allowed me to do was focus on me. Something I had forgotten how to do. I joined al-anon and started to develop some self esteem. I was worth much more than being a nanny for a drunk.

Take your time and be patient and gentle with yourself, you have started a journey of recovery and it is well worth it.

There is a lot of wisdom on this site.

((((hugs))))

Your friend,

Ariel1030

Talk about words of wisdom! Wow. I have a lot to think on. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH for your responses.

Someone above (I'm on my phone and can't scroll up w/out starting over) said that I lack understanding. Yes, I very much do. And I think it's because I had an uncle who was a terrible alcoholic and died from it. I remember seeing him stumbling into my grandma's house and falling down on the couch midday. He did it often. He couldn't speak, walk, function. In college I was at my grandmas and took a drink of juice and it had vodka in it. His "work drink".

So I'm envisioning a "REAL" alcoholic being far worse from my AH. He is functional, but I never gave thought as to alcohol being a reason to be jobless 6 years...I just thought he was lazy.

I thought the staying out meant he loved partying.

I thought him being at the stay at home dad neighbors house all day meant the n was more fun. Yes, they drink and play pool. And I want to scream.

I thought all the time hiding in the garage, at his friends' houses, etc, was bc I was no longer enough.

The SICK thing is, is that when I have a few with him, our nights are fun, he says how much he loves me, I get attention, love, everything. But I HAVE TO COME TO HIM AND DRINK WITH HIM. Then he loves me. But does he ever come inside and watch a movie with me? Or anything at all? No. Our WHOLE RELATIONSHIP has been based on me having a few drinks and him having many.

But the neighbor- it's just the alcohol, isn't it? I thought he was gay! I really did.

But back to my point is it's very difficult to rectify in my mind that he is a hard core addict with no rock bottom - deep down I knew - but I just always thought an A was a belligerent idiot with a wife beater on, ravioli stains, beer can in his fist, screaming at his brood of kids in a trailer park. Not a guy with a nice upbringing in a nice area with a nice life.

Dear god.

BlueSkies1

An A can be a 6 figure man in a very well made suit.

The first step, and often the hardest, is to move your focus point off of him, and onto you.
To start thinking about what you wanted in life, what you want in life, what your dreams were, what your dreams are, and how to go about making it all come true.

You are losing your happiness, or have lost it, and that's where your focus needs to be--getting it back, or carving it out anew if it was never clear to begin with.
There will be casualties along the way. Maybe this relationship.
You can't find happiness and cling to unhappiness, see. Some things are going to have to go. Some new things will have to come into your life. Some things you will be able to keep the same, those things that are part of your happiness, or at least aren't in the way of achieving it.

redatlanta

It was me that said that. I am not saying your husband doesn't have a rock bottom - dunno.

Forget him though - what is YOUR rock bottom?

hopeful4

The thing I noticed immediately is that all of your focus is on him, trying to figure out and change his behavior. WHY do you continue to put up with it. Before you say, because I love him, look at his behavior and tell me what you love, because you don't sound very happy to me.

Some of them don't have a rock bottom. My XAH does not, I have accepted that. He also goes to a job every single day, rarely misses a day of work. He is still an alcoholic

Let go or be dragged. YOU did not CAUSE this, YOU cannot CONTROL this, YOU cannot CURE this.

Please understand, his needs and wants don't trump yours. You have a right to have a soulmate that does treat you with kindness, dignity, truth, respect, and love.


WHY doesn't he give me attention?
WHY does he deny being alcoholic when he drinks alone daily & says he can quit whenever he wants?
WHY does he become enraged at me brining up getting a job?
WHY AM I NOT ENOUGH FOR HIM?
Why does he treat me as If I'm invisible?
Why when I try to discuss these things he deflects and gets angry and we get nowhere? And then he goes back to doing the SAME thing the very next day?

And most of all: whaT is with the self-centered mess and self-absorption? It's like he can't see past himself, has zero empathy for me, and could generally care less?

When we were dating I thought I'd found a soulmate...then the second I got pregnant he left me emotionally, just threw me in the trash.

Please help

Ariel1030

Redatlanta, I thank you for that, I do from the bottom of my heart. I've learned a lot from the few posts, and I'm so grateful. I don't think he has a rock bottom.

Forgetting about him is hard. I just asked him to come sit by me. He said, "I'm going out for a cigarette." Didn't ask me to come. Came back in. I go out for one. The neighbor text to come have a cigarette and he all but runs over there. I can see them, they aren't drinking, but it's all in the little things. I am trying to detach, I am. But the little things hurt.

If this is as good as it gets do I want this forever? I don't know. Every day is like a slow death, letting go of dreams. I've been single and "out there" divorced at 28, when I still had my youthful looks, and let's be honest, it's a cruel world...I'm 36 with 2 kids, and I'm not what I once was. And even at 28 it was awful. I'm scared. I'm hurt. I feel rejected.

I'm preoccupied. Right now he's giving our neighbor more attention than he's given me in a week. Sans alcohol.

I see now that for 6 years I've been chasing him because I was either pregnant or at home with kids. He hurts me, which makes me more preoccupied. Emotional pain is worse than physical pain, if you ask me.

My rock bottom? If he were to hit my children, or hurt them emotionally. He is a good dad. I very much believe the kids don't realize his drinking. They know dad goes across the street to his friend's house. We don't fight in front of them. Even raise our voices to each other. We do not spank.

You are all right. I need to get back to me. My dream of having beautiful children, running my business, being an artist, and having a home...those are fulfilled. Other dreams were just dreams. Things from movies. I divorced my ex bc I wasn't "in love," and thought I'd find Prince Charming. I found someone I very much loved, look where it got me.

I will have to take stock of ways to detach, stop being so stupidly preoccupied, stop feeling like I want to cry from the hurt 75% of the day, and stop letting him hurt me with the things he does, like now, he knows how much work I have an he's screwing around across the street. I have to figure this out before I let it totally consume me.

Thank you to all of you.

Ariel1030

Thank you, hopeful4. You are right. So truly, terribly right.

Refiner

WHY are you still with him? Let's see... he doesn't work, he doesn't provide companionship, he doesn't help with the kidS and he's sounds like a nasty person overall. I think you may want some self-reflection to see WHY you are still with him.