Extended vent - couples session today
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Anvilhead (I think) posted a version of the serenity prayer that really helped me.
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change (other people, places, things)
The courage to change the things I can (me, myself, I)
And the wisdom to know the difference.
Your friend,
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change (other people, places, things)
The courage to change the things I can (me, myself, I)
And the wisdom to know the difference.
Your friend,
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 233
I just ordered her a bunch of flowers to be delivered to her office.
This is something I know she likes (always nice to get delivered flowers in front of all your colleagues). Regardless, as I thought about it, there was no reason why I shouldn't do this. I don't have to worry about her thinking I'm getting her flowers just because I'm trying to "butter her up" or with an expectation she will reciprocate - after all, we're separated.
It's just something she would like, and is nice to do. So, it's done. I'll let go of the result. Hope she likes them.
-DrS
This is something I know she likes (always nice to get delivered flowers in front of all your colleagues). Regardless, as I thought about it, there was no reason why I shouldn't do this. I don't have to worry about her thinking I'm getting her flowers just because I'm trying to "butter her up" or with an expectation she will reciprocate - after all, we're separated.
It's just something she would like, and is nice to do. So, it's done. I'll let go of the result. Hope she likes them.
-DrS
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
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Originally Posted by DocSobrietist 
I appreciated that my daughter in particular spent so much time making a card for her Mom. I enjoyed watching her give the card to her.
-DrS
-DrS
Listen, I totally get that when you've been pushed aside as you feel you have been by your wife, it's hard to want to put yourself out there and do anything kind for the person you feel you've been hurt by. That said, I almost think you're fueling the very thing you want to avoid (divisiveness between you and your wife) bc of your resentments....
I gather from your posts you're not a fan of the AA model but the dealing with resentments stuff might be useful... Just a thought...
I saw that Fandy asked a good question and made a good point in asking about whether you thought about your kids and their desire perhaps to get their mom a gift and I would second the sentiment that it's about them and that they might still even if it's after the fact, like to get their mom a plant or something.... I hope you don't let your resentment toward your wife get in the way of not supporting the kids in doing something nice for her. I am glad you got enjoyment from watching your daughter give her mom a card but I wonder what enjoyment your daughter could and might still be able to get out of you taking her to get her mom a gift?
My STBXAH made a point to tell our kids he would take them to get a gift for me at xmas (bc I heard the phone conversation about it). He didn't and you know who that hurt? Our kids. Not me. My 8 yr old, when she spoke to her dad on mothers day (he called to say goodnight) reminded him of that and said that she had told grammie she wanted her help to get me a mothers day gift because he didn't keep his word at xmas and she didn't trust him (not her words verbatim)... I overheard this and was so sad for her and for him that he has shown her already at age 8 who he is.
Be a model of graciousness and kindness to your kids with regard to your wife. Not saying you aren't... Just relaying a cautionary tale....Kids don't miss a thing.
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That's a really nice gesture... I posted my last reply before I saw this.. Sorry if it's redundant or sounds lecture-ish... I don't mean for it to.
Originally Posted by DocSobrietist
I just ordered her a bunch of flowers to be delivered to her office.
This is something I know she likes (always nice to get delivered flowers in front of all your colleagues). Regardless, as I thought about it, there was no reason why I shouldn't do this. I don't have to worry about her thinking I'm getting her flowers just because I'm trying to "butter her up" or with an expectation she will reciprocate - after all, we're separated.
It's just something she would like, and is nice to do. So, it's done. I'll let go of the result. Hope she likes them.
-DrS
This is something I know she likes (always nice to get delivered flowers in front of all your colleagues). Regardless, as I thought about it, there was no reason why I shouldn't do this. I don't have to worry about her thinking I'm getting her flowers just because I'm trying to "butter her up" or with an expectation she will reciprocate - after all, we're separated.
It's just something she would like, and is nice to do. So, it's done. I'll let go of the result. Hope she likes them.
-DrS
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 240
Doc
Just a couple questions - it seems to me that you want things the way YOU WANT THEM
It seems very important that you always be right
You might want to think about what is driving that - and the consequent attitude/s that go along with it.
No one is EVER right all the time
NO ONE
Just a couple questions - it seems to me that you want things the way YOU WANT THEM
It seems very important that you always be right
You might want to think about what is driving that - and the consequent attitude/s that go along with it.
No one is EVER right all the time
NO ONE
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 233
Originally Posted by littlesister1
Doc
Just a couple questions - it seems to me that you want things the way YOU WANT THEM
It seems very important that you always be right
You might want to think about what is driving that - and the consequent attitude/s that go along with it.
No one is EVER right all the time
NO ONE
Just a couple questions - it seems to me that you want things the way YOU WANT THEM
It seems very important that you always be right
You might want to think about what is driving that - and the consequent attitude/s that go along with it.
No one is EVER right all the time
NO ONE
You're right, of course. I *always* need to be right. Especially when I'm not.
-DrS
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
Just like sending flowers TODAY, instead of letting your daughters enjoy the glory on Mother's Day of giving mommy flowers....
it really is all about YOU and the impression YOU want to create. Your daughters feelings don't enter into your thinking? I don't wish to sound severe either, but it sounds like you really enjoy ALL the attention...YOU snap your rubberband so your wrist is constantly red, you raise your voice, you enjoy watching your daughter make a card, you order flowers so her coworkers can discuss it and see it. You are orchastrating the whole scene the way you want it.
it all makes good theater, but you have missed the mark by a mile.
it really is all about YOU and the impression YOU want to create. Your daughters feelings don't enter into your thinking? I don't wish to sound severe either, but it sounds like you really enjoy ALL the attention...YOU snap your rubberband so your wrist is constantly red, you raise your voice, you enjoy watching your daughter make a card, you order flowers so her coworkers can discuss it and see it. You are orchastrating the whole scene the way you want it.
it all makes good theater, but you have missed the mark by a mile.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Doc, I'm with Fandy.
I think you sent flowers at work for your own selfish benefit. Then the coworkers will say, aww, look how hard he's trying. Your wife will see it as manipulation - because IT IS. There is no reason you should have sent her flowers at work. Unbelievable.
Look, I'm on both sides of the alki/codie thing.
You need to think of your children.
Forget trying to win "cuddle time" with the wife (many of your past posts seem to lead to your desire for sex) and think about someone OTHER than yourself.
My father lost my love when he did nothing for anyone but himself. Selfish, self-centered, all about him and his needs and hurts.
Your kids are 4 and 6. You're about to lose them. Not to divorce, but to selfishness. You are the adult. I think.
I think you sent flowers at work for your own selfish benefit. Then the coworkers will say, aww, look how hard he's trying. Your wife will see it as manipulation - because IT IS. There is no reason you should have sent her flowers at work. Unbelievable.
Look, I'm on both sides of the alki/codie thing.
You need to think of your children.
Forget trying to win "cuddle time" with the wife (many of your past posts seem to lead to your desire for sex) and think about someone OTHER than yourself.
My father lost my love when he did nothing for anyone but himself. Selfish, self-centered, all about him and his needs and hurts.
Your kids are 4 and 6. You're about to lose them. Not to divorce, but to selfishness. You are the adult. I think.
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Originally Posted by dandylion
I thought the flowers at work was a nice gesture (that she says she l ikes/wants).
I love getting flowers in front of colleagues!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is just me, I suppose......
dandylion
I love getting flowers in front of colleagues!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is just me, I suppose......
dandylion
I actually like the idea of having the kids pick out the flowers. Or even better, making her a card (which they did for her birthday). Or maybe all three.
Anyways, this is all really soon. I'm moving into my new apartment Memorial Day weekend. I haven't even given myself (or her) a chance to take a breath.
As an aside, I think the thing that's valuable about sharing what's going on with me here at F&F is that I get a huge diversity of perspectives and opinions, which is really valuable to me - it really helps me to not stay stuck in my own perspective. However, I think I should stay away from taking or soliciting advice. Then I get frozen because everyone has an opinion.
-DrS
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Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
if it were ME, I would take the kids to the grocery where they have some nice stuff, let each of them pick out a plant or a small bouquet, sign a little card they give away for free and present them to their mother.
it is time spent with your kids and allowing them to feel giving. instead of your selfish LOOKATMEMEME gesture.
i went through a messy divorce while my daughter was small. She NEVER went through FATHER's DAY without a gift for her FATHER, purchased by me, and we fought like cats and dog's.
I like to think that I was always the better man during this time...time will tell.
it is time spent with your kids and allowing them to feel giving. instead of your selfish LOOKATMEMEME gesture.
i went through a messy divorce while my daughter was small. She NEVER went through FATHER's DAY without a gift for her FATHER, purchased by me, and we fought like cats and dog's.
I like to think that I was always the better man during this time...time will tell.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
Deep breath.
One holiday, done and over. It wasn't horrible either way and the thing about holidays is you get a do over every year
Get yourself and your family through the upcoming move. Two things to focus on. 1) get moved 2) protect calmness and peace during a stressful change. Everything else will all still be there two weeks from now.
One holiday, done and over. It wasn't horrible either way and the thing about holidays is you get a do over every year
Get yourself and your family through the upcoming move. Two things to focus on. 1) get moved 2) protect calmness and peace during a stressful change. Everything else will all still be there two weeks from now.
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Location: USA
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Fandy hit the nail on the head-- many times in fact. Couldn't agree me...
And BiminiBlue said more bluntly what I was tip toeing around.
My 8 year old has seen her father behave selfishly for so long that she is pretty well done with him. My 6 year old is on the fence.
Your kids are 4 and 6. This is a critical time. For them and for you.
I told my X for many years that the girls noticed ALL his behaviors... They didn't miss a thing... And he didn't believe me. And now frankly he's done damage that it's doubtful he can repair.
Take the focus off yourself and your feelings and focus on the kids 100%. That's my two cents.
And BiminiBlue said more bluntly what I was tip toeing around.
My 8 year old has seen her father behave selfishly for so long that she is pretty well done with him. My 6 year old is on the fence.
Your kids are 4 and 6. This is a critical time. For them and for you.
I told my X for many years that the girls noticed ALL his behaviors... They didn't miss a thing... And he didn't believe me. And now frankly he's done damage that it's doubtful he can repair.
Take the focus off yourself and your feelings and focus on the kids 100%. That's my two cents.
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Doc, I just want to point out that I LOVE getting homemade stuff from my kids. It means the world to me and I think I would be more upset not getting that stuff from them than if I did not get some other gift.
A couple of weeks after we separated, I went to visit my sister and we took all the kids to a pottery place, you pick what pottery you want and paint it and then come back a few days later and pick it up after they fire it and make it shiny.
Both my kids chose to do something for their dad who has a birthday coming up next week. Although I am sure they will add a card and I will likely add something small also for them, I thought this was a great gift because it took time, has their actual artwork on it, and I know it will be special to him. It was hard to see them both run and pick something for him after we had a less than happy split, but I support them and raved over how great it looked. After all, it is about them giving the gift to him.
I just want to say again, give yourself a break. It's a lot of craziness going on for you guys. I found with my XAH, it really is a step at a time. Some days are good, others are not so much. But ultimately our kids are ours and we need to get along and be able to coparent no matter what. That does not mean he agrees w/me all the time or vice versa, but it means we are both working on not putting our own BS in front of the needs of our kids. This also means for every decision I make, or do not make, I think of how it will affect my children. Is there a better alternative?
This has forced me to slow way down. To think a lot more before I speak. To engage much less. I am now trying to carry that over in the rest of my life too because I have found that I think these things are making me a better person all around. I am not perfect, nor will I ever be. But I am going to strive to do my best and find, and keep, happiness in my life.
XXX
A couple of weeks after we separated, I went to visit my sister and we took all the kids to a pottery place, you pick what pottery you want and paint it and then come back a few days later and pick it up after they fire it and make it shiny.
Both my kids chose to do something for their dad who has a birthday coming up next week. Although I am sure they will add a card and I will likely add something small also for them, I thought this was a great gift because it took time, has their actual artwork on it, and I know it will be special to him. It was hard to see them both run and pick something for him after we had a less than happy split, but I support them and raved over how great it looked. After all, it is about them giving the gift to him.
I just want to say again, give yourself a break. It's a lot of craziness going on for you guys. I found with my XAH, it really is a step at a time. Some days are good, others are not so much. But ultimately our kids are ours and we need to get along and be able to coparent no matter what. That does not mean he agrees w/me all the time or vice versa, but it means we are both working on not putting our own BS in front of the needs of our kids. This also means for every decision I make, or do not make, I think of how it will affect my children. Is there a better alternative?
This has forced me to slow way down. To think a lot more before I speak. To engage much less. I am now trying to carry that over in the rest of my life too because I have found that I think these things are making me a better person all around. I am not perfect, nor will I ever be. But I am going to strive to do my best and find, and keep, happiness in my life.
XXX
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Gosh I wasn't aware that a gift was such a necessity to show appreciation.
So she boots him out of the house then he gets beat up because HE didn't buy her a mothers day gift? Sorry - I think that's just ridiculous.
He decides to send her flowers today and is told that he is manipulative and just wants all the attention for himself?
This is a little over the top - When he doesn't do something he is a piece of sh!t when he does do something he is manipulative.
Seems to me the best thing is for them to spend as much time apart as possible. This is walking on eggshells 24/7. No way to live and certainly no way to repair a marriage.
So she boots him out of the house then he gets beat up because HE didn't buy her a mothers day gift? Sorry - I think that's just ridiculous.
He decides to send her flowers today and is told that he is manipulative and just wants all the attention for himself?
This is a little over the top - When he doesn't do something he is a piece of sh!t when he does do something he is manipulative.
Seems to me the best thing is for them to spend as much time apart as possible. This is walking on eggshells 24/7. No way to live and certainly no way to repair a marriage.
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Originally Posted by DocSobrietist
As an aside, I think the thing that's valuable about sharing what's going on with me here at F&F is that I get a huge diversity of perspectives and opinions, which is really valuable to me - it really helps me to not stay stuck in my own perspective. However, I think I should stay away from taking or soliciting advice. Then I get frozen because everyone has an opinion.
-DrS
-DrS
I believe that you will get good advice, and plenty of people able to call you on your ********, in the threads for recovering addicts. Maybe this isn't the best place for you. You are getting a lot of attention and energy--but is it helpful? I can only think, if you want to truly learn how to be in recovery, that other threads will have more to offer. But I could be wrong.
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Originally Posted by fairlyuncertain
As a recovering addict, you are situating yourself in the midst of people trying to heal from relationships with addicts. On threads you start, I see a lot of people using the words "this triggers me."
I believe that you will get good advice, and plenty of people able to call you on your ********, in the threads for recovering addicts. Maybe this isn't the best place for you. You are getting a lot of attention and energy--but is it helpful? I can only think, if you want to truly learn how to be in recovery, that other threads will have more to offer. But I could be wrong.
I believe that you will get good advice, and plenty of people able to call you on your ********, in the threads for recovering addicts. Maybe this isn't the best place for you. You are getting a lot of attention and energy--but is it helpful? I can only think, if you want to truly learn how to be in recovery, that other threads will have more to offer. But I could be wrong.
It's understandable that the instinct of the addict is to seek the company of codependents, where there are a lot of coddlers and empaths and helpers.
The problem is that it creates a mixture of either useless coddling/empathy/sympathy/helping, or it triggers those trying to heal.
The correct structure is for the recovering addict to stay on their side of the street, which is seeking the support of other successfully recovering addicts. It is from them that the correct support and correct calling out of drama, BS, selfishness and the like can happen in a SUPPORTIVE way, when it rears its head.
JMHO
CLMI
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Well, geez. Very disappointed in so many posts taking shots at Doc's attempts to sort himself out. Yes, he is in recovery, his wife is a recovering A too...so he has every right to post about her craziness too. No one is blameless in these situations.
I admire Doc's willingness to step up to the plate, talk about his issues and seek feedback. Not all feedback is what we want to hear, but he is the one asking for help, not her...and there is a reason for that. We are here to support Doc, not his wife. If she posts, we can support her too.
So many people complain about their spouses bad behavior and how they don't get it, want support, etc. Rather than seeing things from Doc's perspective (which challenges me too, but I do see it and relate) and supporting him, there is a LOT of support for his wife instead...??? I understand that many might identify with her rather than him, but Doc has a compelling case too. I empathize with Doc and his situation even though I was in the "other" role. The roles do overlap and he is trying.
I hope you are not driven away Doc. I think F and F should be open to everyone. And I do think even though you are the more recent active A in your situation, you definitely belong here.
I admire Doc's willingness to step up to the plate, talk about his issues and seek feedback. Not all feedback is what we want to hear, but he is the one asking for help, not her...and there is a reason for that. We are here to support Doc, not his wife. If she posts, we can support her too.
So many people complain about their spouses bad behavior and how they don't get it, want support, etc. Rather than seeing things from Doc's perspective (which challenges me too, but I do see it and relate) and supporting him, there is a LOT of support for his wife instead...??? I understand that many might identify with her rather than him, but Doc has a compelling case too. I empathize with Doc and his situation even though I was in the "other" role. The roles do overlap and he is trying.
I hope you are not driven away Doc. I think F and F should be open to everyone. And I do think even though you are the more recent active A in your situation, you definitely belong here.
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