LoveMeNow

I really don't understand why you were wearing or snapping the rubber band in therapy today. My understanding of the rubber band is to punish a thought so as not to obsess about it. What is your reasoning?

allforcnm

On one hand I agree with your therapist friend about continuing counseling; but mostly I think I feel that way based on my own experience. My husband and I did both marriage counseling and individual work simultaneously. They went hand in hand and we had good success. But reading your experience thus far... its almost the opposite situation. We both knew we wanted to try to save the marriage and work through the issues right then, live together in peace and happiness...

While you want peace and happiness... it sounds like your both at the opposite end of the spectrum where you have decided you need time apart to find it, and aren't sure if you want to continue the marriage. Plus you've been doing marriage counseling for a while now.... I think maybe your on the right track considering taking a break and working with an individual psych doc for a while. (Cant believe Im saying this - LOL). I would be curious what the marriage counselor thinks... and what the new person you pick out thinks would be best for you.

^^^^ this is good

inpieces314

This is why friends don't become friends' therapists.

Stopping therapy is not a good idea unless the relationship is being damaged by continuing to go. The whole point of MC is to continue the marriage. You both have to be on the same boat for that, or else it does not work. Period. That's why I said it needs to be postponed (I think, I don't remember exactly what I said) although perhaps indefinitely IF you guys can't get on the same page. If one of you wants to continue the marriage and the other doesn't, it's stupid to waste time and money on something that is never going to get anywhere. That's all I was saying.

And I have something similar, kind of. My mom has been bugging me to find a grief counselor. My therapist said it's too soon. My mom thinks she is an idiot. But it makes sense-I won't get anything out of it right now because it's too new and all that-I won't learn anything.

I also have a psych degree, and I am telling you, the point of therapy is not to be detrimental. That is very counterintuitive.

redatlanta

There is a reason why I suggest not telling the folks about "the incident"……when trying to keep a relationship together outside opinions can have a very powerful persuasion. Additionally we being in the relationship are (hopefully) able to forgive our spouses where I find friends and family often are not which causes just another issue.

This is based on personal experience, and watching the experience of others who have confided details to family - my husband OD'd on pain meds about 3 months after we had moved in. I was at the hospital with him and my brother called, the sibling I am closest to. He went on a rampage, told every person in my family. Showed up at my work the next week demanding I get rid on RAH. When I did not my brother told me that he would never have anything to do with RAH ever again. At that time I had no clue what I was dealing with and really, I didn't need the added pressure at the time. For 2 years we had to schedule separate family dinners and so forth because my brother refused to be in the prescence of RAH even though RAH had within the year fully relapsed (which bro did not know) and was back on track in recovery (which he did).

While the support of friends and family is invaluable often the advice is not, especially when dealing with addiction and co-dependent behavior. The few I told about the relapse gave me ideas such as using breathalyzers, throwing out the alcohol, etc. which sounded like a good idea at the time. Of course we all know that its the worst idea….. As I get older and smarter (hopeful) keeping close family members out of my business has been one of the smarter things I have figured out. Now that you guys have decided to separate obviously there are questions - to me saying that there were substance abuse and addiction issues and that you are in recovery for a year is sufficient. How do the details of your overdose and hospitalization change, add to, help, or explain any more than the previous sentence? Are you in denial that it happened? I don't think you are as you have mentioned it often.

You can't stop her from telling. I have no idea why she asked your opinion that's very strange to me and I am kind of thinking she was just picking a scab, but I don't know.

DocSobrietist

More context - I had been talking to my parents. They know quite a lot, they visited me in rehab and in the acute care hospital. I've told them about my drinking, drugs, porn, gambling stuff. They are in the know. I also told them about the separation shortly after it looked like it would happen. A few days ago they mentioned to me that they didn't know what to say to my wife's parents - and at that time I knew my wife hadn't told them a damn thing.

Actually, her default would be to have continued to say nothing to her own parents. So I told her it would probably be good to eventually let her parents know about the separation at least so they can hear it from her rather than from my parents.

So, there's more context to it.

More on my wife's justification for telling her parents all the gory details. So, again, she has said she wants to do it, in part, because she feels like her Mom and Dad blames her for the separation (and so, insisting on using the words "overdose" and specifying in detail the drug or drugs used maybe helps to deflect from her, I guess). Not exactly the healthiest or most functional reason to "speak her truth" - no other way to put it.

I had pointed that out and she said, "all I can do is speak my truth, and let go of the results." I pointed out that in the 12 steps, Step Nine deals with speaking a form of the truth (in the form of making amends), but talks about doing so in a way that would avoid "injur(ing) them or others." So I don't think there's inherent value in "speaking the truth" in unrestrainedly unvarnished manner without regard to the likely effects on others. Again, if her parents weren't who they were (e.g., her Mom being a still-practicing alcoholic not in recovery, and her Dad being a firmly practicing codependent and with mild dementia besides) - perhaps they could handle the complete unvarnished truth. But I don't think they can. I said this in the therapy session, I didn't belabor the point and just put it out there. She heard it, didn't respond. She'll do what she will do.

Ultimately, if she does this, they'll end up interacting with my own parents, and cooler heads will likely prevail in some manner or another. Life will go on. I do hate to keep putting all this meaning into everything my wife says or does (over-analysis again?), but I feel like this just tells me where my wife is about the marriage. Because it doesn't help me feel any closer to her or that she's on my team. She can say what she says. If she had wanted to talk to her parents in such a manner, and she hadn't mentioned it in therapy to me at all (asking for my opinion), I wouldn't have been the wiser and I think it would all turn out OK. But the fact she poked me with it in session just bugs me and hardens me towards her. Unfortunately.

-DrS

DocSobrietist

My obsessive thoughts about my wife didn't magically pause when I was in the therapists' office.

-DrS

dandylion

Doc---your wife also has issues with her family of origin...don't you think? (I guess that this is not any news, though).

dandylion

Hawkeye13

As a double (acually triple) winner, I see either sides from being there.
Family as daughter and wife of alcoholic, and recovered alcoholic myself)

She's mad, for past history, and she can't put it down yet.

On the other hand, you can't fix what has already passed, and are making a strong attempt to stay sober and build a recovery,
and you can't deal with the fallout of the addiction (the consequences) right now.

I think, if it were me, I would focus on my own recovery and step back from the couples situation right now.
Move into your apartment, make a nice space for the kids there, and have a happy family situation in both places for them,
and room for peace, non-judgement, and recovery in each of your individual spaces. Only communicate about the kids,
and get into individual counseling. I would set the MC aside from now--it is too heavy going for you at one year sober.

Your kids and each of you finding healing as individuals is really the only "control" that would be effective or helpful at the moment.

Don't compromise your sobriety because it is precious and the thing which will help your family towards a positive future whatever the outcome of the marriage. Really.

Stung

1. She probably doesn't even know where she is about the marriage, so how could you know where she is? If you want to know, just ask. Stop inferring and being a mind-reader. It's not over analysis, its mind reading. If you want to know answers, other than answers about the future, just ask her. But be prepared that she won't have anymore answers to anything than you will.

2. You are on your team, she is on her team. That's how it should be right now. Go build your team up. When its stronger then you won't feel like she needs to be on 'your' side. That's what marriage counseling is about. Individual therapy is exploring why you feel so anxious about having absolute answers to everything (are we going to get divorced, how does she feel about me and our marriage and XYZ...) and why you feel she can't have a team of her own. I agree that you should be doing individual therapy (not judging, I'm doing it too, I thing EVERYONE who finds this board probably needs therapy to an extent) because there is no way that your head is right and I don't feel like an appropriate relationship with a therapist is on a friendship level.

JustAGirl1971

This is the point we came to in marriage counseling, too. Too many resentments and too much anger on both sides. I knew I couldn't stay with him any longer if he was going to continue drinking (which he is) and he knew he was tired of living under the shadow of what I wanted him to be (sober, engaged husband, father, & employee.) Our divorce is nearly final. There is sadness and regret, but ultimately I am happier and I hope he is, too.

I think this sounds like a good plan. Maybe even just a few weeks of settling into your new routine, working on yourselves in individual therapy, and getting a break from working on the marriage will be sufficient to give you both clarity. When you're in the middle of the storm, it's impossible imo to clean up the debris.

I'm sorry, Doc. Take care of you. Your sobriety definitely has to be #1. Don't worry about what she does/doesn't tell her parents. I've just had to let all that go with our divorce. I have no control over what he tells his family and friends... and it's none of my business anyway. As for me, I find it best to confide to program friends. They have no relationship with my ex to effect by confiding truths, they've been there/done that, and they know better how to maintain confidences than my own dysfunctional family.

suki44883

^^^^ This! ^^^^ My thoughts exactly!

Florence

Doc, you've got to die to be resurrected.

The way I see it, you're still trying to control the outcomes of counseling and conversation. Your interactions with her sound controlling and impatient and sometimes antagonistic. If someone were snapping themselves with a rubber band every time I spoke, I would roll my eyes and do something else. You can't fix your wife or or read her mind or guess what she's thinking or otherwise make her feel things for and about you she doesn't feel. What I wanted from my STBXAH was for him to take the focus off of me and get his **** together, so he could be someone I could respect again. He still hasn't. I left him.

This is just my opinion, but you're also still pretty fresh in recovery, and some of your questions seem like maybe you should be posting on the A boards, and not the F&F of A boards.

readerbaby71

Your wife has every right to tell her parents about what's going on with you, as it has deeply affected her and your marriage. Why should she have to keep it a secret? I understand where she's coming from about just getting a card. She wants to feel special. To be appreciated as a mom. Even if you're not getting along I don't think it's too much to ask. It was MOTHER's Day, not Perfect Wife Day.

hopeful4

I found this to be quite triggering. You are ashamed of the things that happened in your past. That's great and you are dealing with those things. You are on your way to recovery. For her, she still questions in her head every day if you are going to relapse. When you are the spouse of someone who has caused so much trauma, your biggest fear in life is that it will happen again, because you know the next time may be the time that breaks you. I know you have clean time, but what you have to understand is that it may take years to gain back that trust, and there is a risk that may never happen.

Those things have affected your wife in a very strong way. Strong enough that she does not know if she can get past the hurt and resentment and continue with the marriage. She is coming to terms with all of these things. Now, she is being blamed by her own parents and likely being made to feel guilty for separating when they don't know the details of why she feels this way. So, she feels the need to tell them. I don't see a problem with this. The truth shall set you free.

If you are truly recovering from all of these things, that is great. Part of recovery is owning up to what has happened, learning from it, and proudly admitting you are overcoming this and have become a stronger and better person from it. My guess is that she feels as though her own recovery was lost in the works while you have been focusing on your own recovery. That is what happens to so many couples. It ends up breeding resentment that many times breaks a marriage.

That being said, that is why we keep our own side of the street clean. If she feels the need to tell her parents, why does she not have the right to do so? She deserves a support system she feels she can be completely open and honest to.

She needs that validation and feels that she deserves that for staying with you during what was by your own admittance an awful, horrible time for you. Remember, it was awful and horrible for her too. She needs validation that she has a right to feel these things. Only when she is able to actually process the resentment and anger and heal from it will she know if she wants to be married to you. Just like in your own recovery you have to figure out if you want to be married to her. Neither of you will figure this out in one counseling session, or a couple of weeks. It takes time to build trust on both ends.

I am not trying to be harsh with you, just offering the other side of the coin. I have been there. When I made my husband leave, those close to me knew why, because I chose a couple of years ago to open up and be completely honest. I did not do that to hurt my husband or to share bad things about him. I did it because for years I had stuffed in all the hurtful things that happened in our marriage and it made me emoationally and physically sick. I was becoming toxic. The things he was doing to himself and to our family was causing this, I needed to be able to say that and he needs to own that.

When I was able to open up to those close to me, they could understand why I was doing what I was doing. They also understood why I needed just as much support as my X did. I deserved that too. Validation. Empathy. The truth did set me free. I no longer stuff feelings, through a lot of therapy I learned that stuffing the truth and my feelings was making me sick. I deserve a healthy mind and body. My kids deserve the best of who I can be, not someone walking around with 2 tons of resentment and anger built up on my shoulders crying in shame and no self worth.

You both deserve to recover. Your recovery is not more important than hers. Hers not more important than yours. Both equal.

Good luck Doc. I think it would be wise to support her recovery, continue to work on your own, and don't worry about what she says to whom. People do bad things. Some change, some don't. If you have changed your actions will prove that to those around you who you let see it.

BlueSkies1

How about considering neither black nor white thinking.
You don't have to go to counseling together right now if it is doing more harm than good.
You also don't have to start divorce proceedings.
It isn't an either/or situation.
How about the separation simply so that both of you work on your own business without stepping on each other's feet in the process?

You will find that you can reach calmness that way.
Both of you work on your own stuff and stay out of each other's stuff.
Then, somewhere along there, one or both of you will decide you either miss each other enough, or you are better off.
It's not a sudden decision if it's a wise one. It's a process of discovery.

fbw

I read that you gave her a card and thought - huh that would have been nice ...

as for the MC - I quit the first time my AH went into recovery. Mid way it became clear that it was too much for me to focus on repairing our marriage and repairing myself.

I almost wish we could put out entire marriage on hold and know we could dust it off in a year, break all contact for a year and come back and see where we are at. You can not cryogenically freeze children though.

anykey

May I ask how old the kids are?

I take it they are almost grown??

DocSobrietist

Oh no. They are 4 and 6.

-DrS

anykey

I am sort of alarmed about that. These are important years in formation of a child. Forget about what family thinks- who is at fault- focus on those kids.

Hug your kids often and make sure they feel loved and safe. It is not possible to over do this.

Kids will pick up on anguish. It sounds like your wife should do the same thing.

I know I am late in not reading background posts- --

The here and now with your kids is urgent. College is a lifetime away.

Based on the age of your kids- I am tempted to say pay for the extra treatment.

I dont mean to lecture you. Those innocent kids did nothing to no one.

Be the best dad that you can be. Little things matter- a simple hug or playing a board game with kids- these are the formative years.

What you invest in your kids now- will pay off- what you dont invest could be costly.

yesterday is gone- you can not undo it. tomorrow is not here yet-

I dont mean you have to buy them stuff. it is important that you or your wife do not bad mouth each other in front of the kids. they are not pawns in a chess game.

These are important years. I sense that you have enormous potential in the dad department. We have today.

Some good things can be cultivated out of this.

Thumper

Then take a break and maintain your sobriety. I'm not sure what respecting that wish would look like but perhaps you just need some space and not ask anything of her either.

Honestly I had a long reply typed and I deleted it because I am extremely triggered by your post and that is not a good space to reply from. I don't think I had anything new to add to the conversation anyway. I'm only sharing that to say that even when I was in the very hardest times my first wish was always that he would just protect his sobriety. Leave me alone and stay sober. By leave alone I mean I wanted his list of things I could do/he wanted from me - to protect his recovery - to vanish. I was drowning myself. I couldn't help him if he was teetering on the edge. I could no longer make him and his addiction my problem or his recovery my fear. It was killing me. It made me hate him.

You can not lose if you strengthen your sobriety. If your marriage was meant to be, it will be there for you and the strongest most sober you will be the one that can work on it when the time is right. The same thing goes for your wife.