biminiblue

That's great progress, Doc.

Hold on loosely. Don't let go. If you cling too tightly you're gonna lose control.

~ 38 Special lyrics

DocSobrietist

Oh absolutely. I have had this sense over the last several months the more tightly I try to hold onto the relationship (or at least my idea of it) - the more it slips between my fingers. Here's to trying a different approach.

-DrS

DocSobrietist

Saw my wife again last night. Helped out with the kids so she could go to the gym, hit an Al-Anon meeting, and do a "ladies night out." We had a chance to briefly talk last night - I basically just asked what the plan was for today. I work on Sundays, she described the kids' activities for the day and then basically asked me if I wanted to come by after work to hang with her and the kids.

I said no. She looked briefly puzzled, maybe a little bothered, and said, "well, OK, but I really wanted to be having these pleasant events with you." I said, "there is nothing I would like more than that, but I really think I need to keep my distance." I explained I want to talk more about what the 'rules' are in terms of how we interact, because I don't want to keep breaking them (and suffer terrible consequences like the angry detachment and verbal abuse - but I didn't say that). I said it seemed like she's developed a lot of rules about how she interacts with me that have kicked in all of a sudden (aloofness, distance, etc.), and I just want to find out more about what they are. She said, "I don't think I'm sure what they are myself" (which is fair).

I went back to the hotel. Worst night of sleep since I came here. It's cooled down in the area since, and I've discovered the heater doesn't work in this room. Also, at about 3am I got woken up by a loud, banging, screaming lover's quarrel in one of the adjoining rooms. Lasted for about 30 minutes, then I couldn't get back to sleep. F**king sucked.

I said this on during an online Lifering meeting last night - something has changed in me a bit. There seems over the last week or so a big part of me that I've discovered (or created) that really, really wants some space of my own. I'm also *afraid* to be close to my wife. Maybe it's me not wanting to deal, just not wanting to go through the effort. I also feel like I've been burned so much over the years, it takes a toll. Again, I understand I've put her through unbelievable trauma - but understanding that just doesn't make these feelings I'm having go away.

Again, so much more to talk about tomorrow. I really like the idea of taking the idea of my wife's and running with it a bit. If we do this separation, the first chunk of time should be devoted to, in my opinion, doing this separation thing as fully as possible. No couples therapy. Minimal contact. No attempt at pleasant events. Open communication, but only about the children, scheduling, etc. Lots of room for us to do our groups and therapy. After some agreed-upon amount of time, we re-evaluate. Hopefully this gives us a chance to take a breath. She has resentments, anger, and trauma to work through. I have a lot of my own strong feelings to work through as well.

Anyways, that's where I am with this right now. I'm exhausted. One more night in the hotel. Monday I'm really going to say, look, I need to sleep in my own bed for a few nights. I'm exhausted. If she wants, we can get her an air mattress she can set up downstairs in the living room. Or, she can share the bed with me again - honestly, that piece of me that wants to separate, will make sharing the bed with her a lot easier right now than it was, say, a week ago. Either way, we'll work on it.

So this is where I am right now. Right, wrong, healthy, unhealthy, I'm sure I'll be in a different place in a few hours, or maybe not. I'll keep you posted as long as people keep listening.

-DrS

readerbaby71

I'm sorry, Doc, but it's not a good idea to overanalyze and dissect and assume what she's thinking or what her motivations are. Expectations about how this is going to turn out are not good for your mental health.

I wish you and your wife all the best.

DocSobrietist

Maybe this surprises you, but I actually agree with what you're saying, here.

I'll avoid re-explaining my above post. I'm trying to focus on what I want, and what I'm feeling right now. Bottom line, I'm scared to jump back into anything with my wife right now, including "pleasant events."

-DrS

Fathom

Hi Doc,

I think it's great that you are examining your own feelings right now. Keep observing them because, in my experience, they are likely to keep changing. I think readerbaby may have been responding to your discussion with your wife about her rules. I think your wife's response was very honest. It is difficult (read: impossible?) to nail down rules of engagement when your head is so befuddled. When I was going through this, I tried to keep it simple. I tried to remember, in all my interactions with him, that I loved him and wanted the best for him. That helped me with my compassion for his struggles. I was also acutely aware of my own struggles and I knew that I couldn't move forward with our relationship until I had recovered my sense of myself that had been lost. I didn't stop communication entirely, but I found that I still could not interact with him with respect and compassion in real time (like on the phone or in person). I needed time to work through my emotions and my thoughts before I could get to a healthy response, every time! I hope my situation was more extreme than yours, and that you can maintain consistent healthy loving interactions in person. But, it sounds like that may be pretty difficult for your wife right now.

I hope you have a productive session tomorrow. I am concerned for you though because you seem to have high expectations of what you two will be able to work through. It's just an hour, right? Are you looking into an individual therapist for yourself? I have found that talking through my own stuff with a professional very enlightening.

Peace,
Fathom

DocSobrietist

I think that's without a doubt - because they have, so many times, over the last week.

Right, for either one of us. I'm back to first principles here. From what I've heard from posters here (particularly on the F&F forum), here's what I understand:

1. she needs, and benefits from, lots of space right now - she's told me that in her own words, and it dovetails with what I've heard here on the F&F forum;
2. I've discovered that for now, I really want more space, because at the very least, I'm exhausted by all the negative interactions I've been having with her, particularly of late, and I'm scared if we jump back in we'll just start right back in again with the extreme negativity; and
3. her big change in behavior (aloofness, excessive formality in interactions with me) which corresponded with her request for separation is highly noticeable (what I referred to as "rules"), and I don't want to be in a position to push for her for more interactions, as that can end extremely badly (e.g., detachment with anger / verbal abuse).

I think it's difficult for both of us right now, actually.

I'm trying not to have high expectations. It is only an hour. I have a meeting with my individual therapist right after my couples therapy meeting.

-DrS