Response from my wife!!!
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I don't feel the need to continue to push. I got an extremely fair answer from my wife this morning. I recognize that her answer may change, and actions speak louder than words, etc. No worries.
"You need to work on yourself but you're not doing that. You're studying and dissecting and injecting meaning into a very short email."
First sentence is just a tad unfair. I've been doing a huge amount of work on myself - I wouldn't be where I am right now (and doing all this self-examination) if I wasn't. I'm not claiming perfection, however.
Regarding the dissecting of the email - I think we've all just done a bit of that. There's a lot more I need to hear from her on Monday. I still am going with my original plan - I need to spend a lot of time listening to her. Still a ton to talk about on Monday. One of the other things that just came up is that she's OK with moving out of the house, and it doesn't have to be me. That's reassuring - I was worrying about that.
I'm OK with where things are between my wife and I right now, all things considered. It's still a huge mess, a ton is going to be unsettled and in an uncertain space for a long time (necessarily), and that's going to have to be OK.
-DrS
"You need to work on yourself but you're not doing that. You're studying and dissecting and injecting meaning into a very short email."
First sentence is just a tad unfair. I've been doing a huge amount of work on myself - I wouldn't be where I am right now (and doing all this self-examination) if I wasn't. I'm not claiming perfection, however.
Regarding the dissecting of the email - I think we've all just done a bit of that. There's a lot more I need to hear from her on Monday. I still am going with my original plan - I need to spend a lot of time listening to her. Still a ton to talk about on Monday. One of the other things that just came up is that she's OK with moving out of the house, and it doesn't have to be me. That's reassuring - I was worrying about that.
I'm OK with where things are between my wife and I right now, all things considered. It's still a huge mess, a ton is going to be unsettled and in an uncertain space for a long time (necessarily), and that's going to have to be OK.
-DrS
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Sorry, I'm not trying to diminish EVERYTHING I'm talking about right now. This moment, dude. Also, don't justify dissecting her email or any of the other crap you're doing. Healthy husbands and wives don't do that. So stop. You're not helping yourself here. That's what I'm trying to say.
She responded, it was nice EVEN if it wasn't the EXACT response you wanted, it WAS nice. Now let it be and go forth and prosper.
She responded, it was nice EVEN if it wasn't the EXACT response you wanted, it WAS nice. Now let it be and go forth and prosper.
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I think that question should be completely thrown out the window.
I just went for a walk to go see my husband regarding work. On the way I thought about the "100 % committed to our marriage" question. I cannot now or in the near future see myself honestly saying that. I have no other plans at all other than staying married, so please don't jump the gun and point to that being a bad thing. What it means to me is I am 100% committed to healing myself. If at some point in time it's either my marriage or my health, I will have to chose my own recovery. I don't expect that to happen, but my priority has to be my own health. Without it, I can't fully bring good things to our marriage. I need to take care of me first, so then I can be fully present and healthy with my husband and our kids.
I just went for a walk to go see my husband regarding work. On the way I thought about the "100 % committed to our marriage" question. I cannot now or in the near future see myself honestly saying that. I have no other plans at all other than staying married, so please don't jump the gun and point to that being a bad thing. What it means to me is I am 100% committed to healing myself. If at some point in time it's either my marriage or my health, I will have to chose my own recovery. I don't expect that to happen, but my priority has to be my own health. Without it, I can't fully bring good things to our marriage. I need to take care of me first, so then I can be fully present and healthy with my husband and our kids.
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Doc, this is my experience, and my experience only. Take what you can and leave the rest. I was married 27 years. My ex is an alcoholic, and is abusive. If at any time during the period of time that I was married and asked if I was willing to be committed to working on the relationship, of course I would have said yes. After all, I'm a codie, and I already put in years and years of trying to make the marriage work, but I did all of that while I walked on eggshells. In a way, I don't think I even knew the word "no" existed.
He got so bad, that I had to leave the house, but yet I was still convinced that I wanted to work on the marriage. Thank God he filed for the divorce. (lol) He filed because, according to him, there is no relationship, if you are not living together. (But thats besides the point of all this).
I still would have worked on the relationship even after I left. I had a one-track mind at the time. It's all I knew. I didn't know my own mind any more, didn't know what "I" wanted.
So months after I left, I began to think about "me". I realized that I couldn't deal with the relationship anymore, that it had destroyed "me". That the reason that I would have been committed to working on it, was not because I loved him, and wanted to spend my life with him, it was because I want validation, I wanted to prove my rightness. I would have been going into it with the wrong attitude.
I would suggest that you work on you, keep doing the next right thing, keep your side of the street clean, and give her the space and time for her to decide what she really wants, and also take that space and time to decide what you really want.
You would both be giving yourself a "gift" by doing that.
If things do work out, you will then know its because you both wanted it to work out.
By not giving the space and time, you may continue to question yourself.
He got so bad, that I had to leave the house, but yet I was still convinced that I wanted to work on the marriage. Thank God he filed for the divorce. (lol) He filed because, according to him, there is no relationship, if you are not living together. (But thats besides the point of all this).
I still would have worked on the relationship even after I left. I had a one-track mind at the time. It's all I knew. I didn't know my own mind any more, didn't know what "I" wanted.
So months after I left, I began to think about "me". I realized that I couldn't deal with the relationship anymore, that it had destroyed "me". That the reason that I would have been committed to working on it, was not because I loved him, and wanted to spend my life with him, it was because I want validation, I wanted to prove my rightness. I would have been going into it with the wrong attitude.
I would suggest that you work on you, keep doing the next right thing, keep your side of the street clean, and give her the space and time for her to decide what she really wants, and also take that space and time to decide what you really want.
You would both be giving yourself a "gift" by doing that.
If things do work out, you will then know its because you both wanted it to work out.
By not giving the space and time, you may continue to question yourself.
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Originally Posted by keepingthefaith 
All of the above. Yes, I do think it's controlling on your part to ask this and expect a straight answer to it. I think that question should be completely thrown out the window.
Originally Posted by keepingthefaith
I just went for a walk to go see my husband regarding work. On the way I thought about the "100 % committed to our marriage" question. I cannot now or in the near future see myself honestly saying that. I have no other plans at all other than staying married, so please don't jump the gun and point to that being a bad thing. What it means to me is I am 100% committed to healing myself. If at some point in time it's either my marriage or my health, I will have to chose my own recovery. I don't expect that to happen, but my priority has to be my own health. Without it, I can't fully bring good things to our marriage. I need to take care of me first, so then I can be fully present and healthy with my husband and our kids.
Again, since it seems like there's a zeal to belabor the point to me, I'll belabor a bit back - I have no interest in asking this question again. Actions speak louder than words. She just gave an answer I'm satisfied with - even though the answer was only specific to right now, this moment, only today (not guaranteeing tomorrow, and not speaking about yesterday). I understand there's no guarantees, and I understand the outcome is not certain.
I have to say - over the past week I've doubted MY commitment to give 100% effort on my marriage. But reading my wife's email, and speaking with her over the last two days, has helped me to feel more comfortable that she and I still share the same goals. That's kind of what the question is about - and we still need to flesh this out some more - what are our shared goals? I think over the last 48 hours I've been reassured that she still potentially shares a lot of goals with me, and that's extremely encouraging.
All right, let's continue.
-DrS
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Originally Posted by keepingthefaith
Same answer. I cannot be 100% committed to working on our marriage because right now I NEED to be 100% committed to working on me.
Could you guys just spend a minute or two recognizing that all of these are relatively positive developments? Sheesh.
-DrS
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Originally Posted by Stung
Sorry, I'm not trying to diminish EVERYTHING I'm talking about right now. This moment, dude.
Originally Posted by Stung
Also, don't justify dissecting her email or any of the other crap you're doing. Healthy husbands and wives don't do that. So stop. You're not helping yourself here. That's what I'm trying to say.
Originally Posted by Stung
She responded, it was nice EVEN if it wasn't the EXACT response you wanted, it WAS nice. Now let it be and go forth and prosper.
-DrS
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Ha! Ha! Some of us a faster at responding than others. Don't feel we are harping on you. What we are doing is putting some serious thought and effort into our responses to you, and sometimes the conversation runs on without us.
Try not to get defensive with us, but understand that all of these people are putting in this effort to respond to you because we care, and because we see some red flags in your approach. I have found that, usually, the posts that get me the most riled up, or the ones that I try to brush away, are the ones I need to look at a little closer.
I'm glad you are here, Doc. Stick around.
Fathom
Try not to get defensive with us, but understand that all of these people are putting in this effort to respond to you because we care, and because we see some red flags in your approach. I have found that, usually, the posts that get me the most riled up, or the ones that I try to brush away, are the ones I need to look at a little closer.
I'm glad you are here, Doc. Stick around.
Fathom
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Originally Posted by Fathom
Ha! Ha! Some of us a faster at responding than others. Don't feel we are harping on you. What we are doing is putting some serious thought and effort into our responses to you, and sometimes the conversation runs on without us.
Try not to get defensive with us, but understand that all of these people are putting in this effort to respond to you because we care, and because we see some red flags in your approach. I have found that, usually, the posts that get me the most riled up, or the ones that I try to brush away, are the ones I need to look at a little closer.
I'm glad you are here, Doc. Stick around.
Fathom
Try not to get defensive with us, but understand that all of these people are putting in this effort to respond to you because we care, and because we see some red flags in your approach. I have found that, usually, the posts that get me the most riled up, or the ones that I try to brush away, are the ones I need to look at a little closer.
I'm glad you are here, Doc. Stick around.
Fathom
But again, the underlying motivation on my part is pretty valid, I think (perhaps the way the question is phrased is just not good) - I want to know what her goals are with all of this, and how much they mesh with mine? What's the point of being married if the shared goals are minimal? Make sense?
Anyways, couples therapy will be how we get to a lot more of that. I'm looking forward to Monday.
What I'm not looking forward to is how to explain all of this to my parents. They're old fuddy-duddies, have been married for like 50+ years, and don't understand stuff like this one bit.
-DrS
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Originally Posted by DocSobrietist
I think this is starting to cross the line into belaboring the point. Again, the question was asked, and answered by my wife. She specified her answer was just regarding how she felt today, right now. It's a fair answer. I hear what everyone else is saying - I don't feel the need to ask it again. I'm not going to beat myself over the head for asking it, either. That won't help anyone.
The question isn't "100% committed to marriage." The question was, "are you 100% committed to *working* on the marriage." Those are two different questions. I would never ask the first one - the question doesn't even make sense. If she or I is not giving the work of how we interact as a couple the best effort we can make (which includes working on ourselves), this won't work.
-DrS
The question isn't "100% committed to marriage." The question was, "are you 100% committed to *working* on the marriage." Those are two different questions. I would never ask the first one - the question doesn't even make sense. If she or I is not giving the work of how we interact as a couple the best effort we can make (which includes working on ourselves), this won't work.
-DrS
I'm just going to throw this out there, because I see similarities in what you expect from your wife and what you seem to expect from responses here. It seems if you don't get the response you hope for, there is a drawn-out response to re-explain yourself. You just can't force people to think the way you want them to or answer the way you expect. People are who they are. You can't change them to meet your needs. I'm thinking of your wife when I say this.
Fathom has wisdom in her words. Folks here are only doing what you asked of them which is provide feedback. It's objective and based on collective personal experience. We care about you, Doc. Please don't be offended.
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Originally Posted by HealingWillCome
Whew. Your response is exhausting, hair-splitting, and belaboring to me.
I'm just going to throw this out there, because I see similarities in what you expect from your wife and what you seem to expect from responses here. It seems if you don't get the response you hope for, there is a drawn-out response to re-explain yourself. You just can't force people to think the way you want them to or answer the way you expect. People are who they are. You can't change them to meet your needs. I'm thinking of your wife when I say this.
Fathom has wisdom in her words. Folks here are only doing what you asked of them which is provide feedback. It's objective and based on collective personal experience. We care about you, Doc. Please don't be offended.
I'm just going to throw this out there, because I see similarities in what you expect from your wife and what you seem to expect from responses here. It seems if you don't get the response you hope for, there is a drawn-out response to re-explain yourself. You just can't force people to think the way you want them to or answer the way you expect. People are who they are. You can't change them to meet your needs. I'm thinking of your wife when I say this.
Fathom has wisdom in her words. Folks here are only doing what you asked of them which is provide feedback. It's objective and based on collective personal experience. We care about you, Doc. Please don't be offended.
Sometimes I get answers I don't like. Sometimes the answers I don't like are valid. Sometimes they're not. I'm pretty good (although not always, for sure) at listening and taking in the valid stuff, even when I don't like the answers.
However, at times, I'm terrible about just letting go when I get stuff I disagree with - even when it is just flat-out invalid or unhelpful. If it doesn't apply to me, if the answers don't work for me, if someone gives me feedback that's just plain invalid - why do I spend all of the energy trying to re-explain myself (I do that with my wife too)? What's wrong with JUST LETTING GO?
Who knows. Part of my codependency / insecurity, trying to make everything OK, to get people's approval. Sometimes people (including my wife) won't understand me or approve of me, no matter how hard I explain. That doesn't make anyone necessarily wrong or right. That doesn't make me a bad person. You know what I'm saying.
Letting go of other people's views of me is hard.
-DrS
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But again, the underlying motivation on my part is pretty valid, I think (perhaps the way the question is phrased is just not good) - I want to know what her goals are with all of this, and how much they mesh with mine? What's the point of being married if the shared goals are minimal? Make sense?
P.S. the point in being married is because you love someone and just enjoy THEM. You're both working at being better individually so you can be more enjoyable to be around. Just let it happen and keep working on yourself and let your wife try to do the same.
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pressure. relentless. constant. what-iffing, need to know now, yesterday isn't soon enough, are ya?, will ya?, won't ya?, can't ya?...................
the above are tactics that my EAH yanked out of his belt like he was pointing a pistol at me.
I felt overwhelmed. I had no answers except I was trying to b-r-e-a-t-h. breathing started to feel real good.
just my experience
the above are tactics that my EAH yanked out of his belt like he was pointing a pistol at me.
I felt overwhelmed. I had no answers except I was trying to b-r-e-a-t-h. breathing started to feel real good.
just my experience
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Originally Posted by DocSobrietist
Oh, no worries.
However, at times, I'm terrible about just letting go when I get stuff I disagree with - even when it is just flat-out invalid. If it doesn't apply to me, if the answers don't work for me, if someone gives me feedback that just doesn't apply to me - why do I spend all of the energy trying to re-explain myself (I do that with my wife too)? What's wrong with JUST LETTING GO?
Who knows. Part of my codependency / insecurity, trying to make everything OK. Sometimes people (including my wife) won't understand me, no matter how hard I explain. That doesn't make anyone necessarily wrong or right.
Letting go is hard.
-DrS
However, at times, I'm terrible about just letting go when I get stuff I disagree with - even when it is just flat-out invalid. If it doesn't apply to me, if the answers don't work for me, if someone gives me feedback that just doesn't apply to me - why do I spend all of the energy trying to re-explain myself (I do that with my wife too)? What's wrong with JUST LETTING GO?
Who knows. Part of my codependency / insecurity, trying to make everything OK. Sometimes people (including my wife) won't understand me, no matter how hard I explain. That doesn't make anyone necessarily wrong or right.
Letting go is hard.
-DrS
Re-explaining is a battle I still fight when I parent my daughters. And then I have to step back and remember that they want to be heard and understood just as much as I do.
As does your wife.
See? Be patient with her, and with yourself. It really is a gift to both of you (that's me re-explaining myself as I said the same thing to you yesterday, today, and now one more time) to honor her request for space. Have trust that things will follow the path they are meant to follow.
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Now you have asked. Don't ask again. I get very tired of having to reassure my own husband constantly about life in general its exhausting.
I second if she checks out of the marriage permanently you will be first to know. Don't see that here.
I second if she checks out of the marriage permanently you will be first to know. Don't see that here.
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Dear Doc...I am going to direct my post to you from a different angle. But, I think it will have some validity.
I propose that you give some consideration to the concept of living in the now. Being fully present in the now. This is a practice that can free many a person from driving themselves crazy by obsessing about the past and tying themselves into knots by what-ifing themselves about the future. There is currently a lot of literature about being mindfully present and many therapists use this tool to help their patients. I have heard others, on this forum, speak of it.
another concept that goes along with this is meditation.....LOl....I realize that I am going all ZEN on you, right now. But, please don't discount my suggestion until you have considered it a possibly plausable idea for at least a good hour and a half.
This is for you, Doc.......YOU......regardless of other issues in your life, right now.
This might be the perfect starting point to beginning to connecting with Doc.
What do you think...........?
dandylion
I propose that you give some consideration to the concept of living in the now. Being fully present in the now. This is a practice that can free many a person from driving themselves crazy by obsessing about the past and tying themselves into knots by what-ifing themselves about the future. There is currently a lot of literature about being mindfully present and many therapists use this tool to help their patients. I have heard others, on this forum, speak of it.
another concept that goes along with this is meditation.....LOl....I realize that I am going all ZEN on you, right now. But, please don't discount my suggestion until you have considered it a possibly plausable idea for at least a good hour and a half.
This is for you, Doc.......YOU......regardless of other issues in your life, right now.
This might be the perfect starting point to beginning to connecting with Doc.
What do you think...........?
dandylion
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Dear Doc...I am going to direct my post to you from a different angle. But, I think it will have some validity.
I propose that you give some consideration to the concept of living in the now. Being fully present in the now. This is a practice that can free many a person from driving themselves crazy by obsessing about the past and tying themselves into knots by what-ifing themselves about the future. There is currently a lot of literature about being mindfully present and many therapists use this tool to help their patients. I have heard others, on this forum, speak of it.
another concept that goes along with this is meditation.....LOl....I realize that I am going all ZEN on you, right now. But, please don't discount my suggestion until you have considered it a possibly plausable idea for at least a good hour and a half.
This is for you, Doc.......YOU......regardless of other issues in your life, right now.
This might be the perfect starting point to beginning to connecting with Doc.
What do you think...........?
dandylion
I propose that you give some consideration to the concept of living in the now. Being fully present in the now. This is a practice that can free many a person from driving themselves crazy by obsessing about the past and tying themselves into knots by what-ifing themselves about the future. There is currently a lot of literature about being mindfully present and many therapists use this tool to help their patients. I have heard others, on this forum, speak of it.
another concept that goes along with this is meditation.....LOl....I realize that I am going all ZEN on you, right now. But, please don't discount my suggestion until you have considered it a possibly plausable idea for at least a good hour and a half.
This is for you, Doc.......YOU......regardless of other issues in your life, right now.
This might be the perfect starting point to beginning to connecting with Doc.
What do you think...........?
dandylion
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I hadn't read your responses when I responded last but my response doesn't change.
I will say please keep in mind that the group on here that is responding to you is probably not reading just this thread about you. Most of us will go back and read ALL your threads. Even the threads under your last profile which you couldn't access.
From that collective we are able to see a whole picture. When you start a new thread perhaps your mind is solely in focus on that situation or question. What may seem a bit like brow beating really isn't - it is that over a number of threads you have mentioned that you have asked her this same question many times.
We are her. Most of us anyway there are some RA's and some double winners but most of us are the spouse/partner/child/family member the non addict. All different yet all the same. We know what its like to be pushed into a corner so there is most likely a little triggering from that standpoint.
But we all want you to be happy. That's for sure.
Good she answered you. I am glad she is willing to work with you on who moves where. She seems in this week to have relaxed some. You have made a sacrifice by staying in the hotel it seems she appreciates the space. All in all congrats, you are making headway to get wherever it is you are supposed to be!
I will say please keep in mind that the group on here that is responding to you is probably not reading just this thread about you. Most of us will go back and read ALL your threads. Even the threads under your last profile which you couldn't access.
From that collective we are able to see a whole picture. When you start a new thread perhaps your mind is solely in focus on that situation or question. What may seem a bit like brow beating really isn't - it is that over a number of threads you have mentioned that you have asked her this same question many times.
We are her. Most of us anyway there are some RA's and some double winners but most of us are the spouse/partner/child/family member the non addict. All different yet all the same. We know what its like to be pushed into a corner so there is most likely a little triggering from that standpoint.
But we all want you to be happy. That's for sure.
Good she answered you. I am glad she is willing to work with you on who moves where. She seems in this week to have relaxed some. You have made a sacrifice by staying in the hotel it seems she appreciates the space. All in all congrats, you are making headway to get wherever it is you are supposed to be!
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