Katchie

My AH is working hard on himself, truly. I'm proud of the fact he has stayed sober as long as he has. I can't remember the last time he stay sober this long. I actually remember the guy I first married. But..we do have 4 sons; one is away at college for a couple more weeks and the younger 3 are finishing up 2 weeks remaining of their school year.

With kids there will be issues. My youngest has had a girlfriend, a cougar of a girl, who is after him making sexual advances. She's 14 for pete's sake! and my son is 15. Things had become so bad, including a lot of lying from both, that I told my son the relationship was over. I don't want to make the story too long, but I found out they have been sneaking around anyway. I've spoke to the mother and father of the young lady to no avail. So..fast forward to today. The young girl comes to my car after school and hands me a hand written note saying very sweetly that they wouldn't have been sneaking around if I hadn't punished them and hopes I can trust the two of them again real soon...really? They were disrespectful and sneaky before any punishment and have only continued against my wishes!

Ok..now to the part Im stuck on..I NEED the help of my H since he is SUPPOSE to be the man of the house, the DAD, the law man. I let him know what was going on and the audacity of this girl and requested help talking to our youngest son. His response was that he didn't think he could handle it right now. Well, news flash, he has never "handled" anything with our sons! It's ALWAYS me..ALWAYS! I need support from him. It will make a bigger impact if we work as a team, but we don't and its so dang frustrating! I just keep hoping with all hope that he HELPS raise these boys to become the men they will need to be for their future wives and children. And daggumit..I DON'T want to be a grandmother yet! I know this is all still alcohol related CRAP. Perhaps some of it is just his character flaws..I dunno...he's always had a hard time being anything other than a buddy or their coach. It is so stinking stressful on me to always be the heavy in the house. Not only be the heavy, but at the same time have a husband that doesn't have your back and the kids know it. What a disaster of parenthood.

I know there's a question in all of that somewhere. I just don't know what to do after he tells me he just cant handle this kind of drama right now. I swear I'm a freaking single parent.

Mango blast

God grant me the SERENITY
to accept the things I cannot change,
COURAGE to change the things I can,
and the WISDOM to know the difference.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...on-slogan.html

Talking to our older kids to wait for sex until marriage somehow translated in the mind of one of them to be thinking of marriage WAY too early because he was in love and wanted to have sex. He's turning 19 tomorrow and has been living with his current girlfriend for some time. She's lovely and I decided to accept her without question, as at his age and already living together I have no input. I did tell him my feelings about it. That doesn't effect my feelings about either of them.

The first girlfriend and her parents were devout Christians who kept inviting him to stay for the weekend. They didn't even freak when he ran away from home one night to be with her and they didn't even call us! I swear, I think they were hoping she'd get pregnant so he'd be a permanent member of the family.
So I doubt you want advice from me on this. I'm still trying to figure it out! Instead, some links for both of us.

How a Parent Can Help Prevent Teenage Sex | Everyday Life - Global Post
Helping Teens Delay Having Sex
Abstinence
About Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STDs)
What If My Teen Is Sexually Active? | ParentFurther

You might ask your husband for help through Band of Brothers. Maybe someone would be able to talk to all of you as a family and/or your son alone. In that case, or with the help of a youth pastor, maybe some of the info here would be of use:
The Center for Relationship Enrichment - Article
Parts of that which I relate to are asking about their values and convictions, and becoming aware of our choices. They are fighting to grow up all too soon, and if they are determined, there is nothing we can do to stop them. We can guide them as well as possible. I agree that 14/15 is crazy young. The problem is that saying "You can't. I'm not going to let this happen." is like a challenge. You can hold them accountable, set boundaries and punishments, just think it through to what you can or cannot enforce. When you've figured out what you'd like to implement, then your husband may be open to discussing this and backing you up, or discussing it more at that time. Perhaps print info for him to read, let him know what you're thinking and then ask for his input. If he doesn't know, maybe ask if he'd discuss this with his group.

More links:
10 Tips for Parents To Help Their Children Avoid Teen Pregnancy | Fact Sheets
Many Teens Don't Keep Virginity Pledges - US News
Why are teens being sexually active if we are being educated about it more than those in the past? | Youth Voices

Mango blast

I'm not real clear with typing lately. To clarify, we told them in no uncertain terms how that was never going to happen and why. The parents asked several more times and received the same answer. When he fell asleep on their couch one night and I drove a long way to go get him, they all knew I meant what I said. It didn't stop him from running away that one night a few months later. Both times led to some needed conversations.
I guess that goes back to:

Say what you mean and mean what you say. And preferably don't be mean when you say it. That last part has tripped me up a time or two.

If I could do that over, I'd have gotten us as a family into therapy then. When I brought it up, he threatened to run away again and I dropped it. I didn't realize at the time that standing my ground could have meant involving the local sheriff, if needed. I'm starting to be a big believer in finding good therapists before we see the need for them. To already be on their list of patients so not going blindly about with just anyone.

Our local school counselor said all kids experiment whether sex, alcohol and/or drugs and didn't see anything wrong with it.

FeelingGreat

Hi katchie, please excuse my remarks if they offend you, and put it down to a difference in culture and possibly religious beliefs.
- don't assume they are having a physical relationship (trying to avoid auto-censor here). This is where your husband would be useful, to have the talk.
- If you believe these 2 have a physical relationship, that ship has sailed. Make 100% sure your son has access and understands how to use condoms. I did this for my son and consequently no grandchildren. I know that sounds like approval, but think of the ramifications of unplanned pregnancy for him, her and the child.
- Point out the legal consequences to both of them. Underage. Do it in a moderate tone, and try to give them credit for understanding.
- Ask the girl into your home, not to stay overnight of course, but to meet and get to know her. You might find she's a normal nice girl. It must have taken some character to give you the note, and she has shown a wish to be open about the relationship.
- Be nice to her. A good friend of mine with 3 sons taught me this lesson, and it helped me enormously through a series of girlfriends of my son. The girls became much more relaxed and open, and I didn't put my son in a position of having to defy me. Because he wasn't defensive, he felt free to break up with them eventually. Theoretically I should have freaked over his last girlfriend - she had a child, former drug addict, criminal family - well he ended up marrying her and she is the light of our family. We all adore her.

This is a bit off topic, sorry. I suppose one way of involving your husband is for the 3 of you to sit down around the table. He may chip in at some point. I agree that a father's input is vital for your sons.

NWGRITS

To a hormone-driven teenager, you just issued a challenge that will gladly be accepted. Especially for a child of an alcoholic. As Feeling Great said, if you know they're having a physical relationship, that ship has sailed. Best to work on prevention rather than wasting your breath on abstinence in that case. The legal ramifications probably won't register to either of them. They didn't with me at that age. Try to be open with both of them, but understand that living in an alcoholic home has serious effects on children, and if he isn't in therapy now, he probably should be. It won't completely curb his teenage idiocy, but it might help him make better decisions in the long run.

As for dad... Well, this is who he's telling you he is and what he's going to do. Accept it or not, but he's probably not going to change.

BoxinRotz

All I have to say in my children's father is their Buddy Ole Pal and I have a beautiful, soon to be 1 year old granddaughter who I adore and I'm only 36! Sometimes, you just have to deal with it even if it f***ing sucks!

redatlanta

Hmmm. Well I would look into what the legal ramifications are in your state. In my state there have been many a 15 year old boy that has gone to jail for statutory rape of an underage girl - even in situation where the girl was aggressive/complied.

I agree that children don't pay attention to laws the way adults do. I am not sure that forbidding him from having contact with her is the way to go - certainly that is not working.

Lies and sneaking around would not go without punishment.

I think you are fighting an uphill battle as far as trying to stop them from having contact with each other. Without the cooperation with her parents its simply not going to happen and if if they did cooperate there are still no guarantees.

I'm not impressed that she gave you a note and said they wouldn't have had to sneak around if it weren't for you….lol very manipulative. Times have changed for sure, I was taught to respect adults and fear them. I can't imagine having done that my parents would have kicked my a**. Of course if I were doing that I also would have been put on s a lock down so tight that there would be no opportunity to sneak around except contact at school.

My suggestion would be to keep son so busy that he doesn't have time for her. I'd be looking for a job or volunteer work for him. This summer he would have so many things to do - things he wants to do too.

You say husband has always been like this so I'm doubting that will change. At the very least can he sit with you while you discuss safe sex with your son? I put a bowl with condoms in sons room. Stick them in his wallet. Put them in his book bag. I might even make him watch a video of a live birth lol.

dandylion

Katchie--I feel reluctant to say this--but, I think it is a reality (that I hate). There are many men who are very PROUD of their son's sexual proclivities. I have observed this many times!!!! Ugh. Even to the point of giving the son "pointers" and a wink. Even "boasting" about it when with their all male buddy groups. These are the same men will talk about taking a baseball bat to any guy who would touch their daughter. Go figure.

I don't know if this would apply in your husband's case, at all. But, it is possible that your husband is not as completely disapproving of this relationship as you are?

With the kind of men that I am talking about--their idea of a sex talk is to tell the boy to just be sure to wear protection.!

Oh Katchie--my heart is bleeding for you. You are facing one of the biggest challenges that we can face as a parent. Hard at best--and, just horrid when facing it as practically a single parent!

The only advice that I can give you is to get some very practical help for yourself in how to navigate this subject--someone who works with this age group.

I wouldn't totally just "give up" on trying to get your husband involved with dealing with this very important matter. He shouldn't be allowed to just put his head in the sand because it doesn't "feel good" to him.....in my opinion. He at least should try to present some kind of united front.

I think you have gotten some good and interesting in-put from some of the other posters.

Katchie--I know that you are trying to do the best that you can.....

dandylion

airwick

Katchie: I thought that I was a "freaking single parent" also.....now after 13 years I am

airwick

Let me add: your AH is trying to correct his behavior, we all need support. I think it is when support is offered and not taken that we (the supporter) have the choice to stay or leave.

freetosmile

I have a thirteen year old daughter...(graduating 8th grade tonight in fact). I often worry about this type of scenario.
I have no advice, I just wanted to say that my heart goes out to you. It must be make the situation seem overwhelming without the back up of your husband.
I guess the only thing I could really say is to pray for your son. Pray that all the good values you've instilled in him will pop into his head before he makes his choices.

Fandy

I once walked into my house earlier than planned after work, my aerobics class was cancelled so i was wearing work-out clothes and sneakers....I came upon my 15 year old daughter and her 19 year old BF about to have sex on my NEW living room couch.

I did not take the high road....I chased him out the door through the neighborhood but he was faster than me, i threw a stake i found on the ground at him and threatened/yelled to beat the stuffing out of him. I called his mother (who I did not know) and told her in no uncertain terms that her kid will stay away from my kid, PERMANENTLY or I would file a civil suit...(i didn't even know what I could do legally but I had lost my sanity at this point). I lost my temper loudly and made my point. If they can't control their child, I would hit back and drag them to court, embarrass all of them and cost them time and $$$.

my Xhusband was alive at the time and he did back me up.
Eventually my daughter outgrew this boy.

hopeful4

It's so hard Katchie. It's a sad realization to have to realize you are the only parent, so all you can do is be the best one you can be.

XXX

ladyscribbler

It's possible that this girl has other issues that are leading her to behave in such a manner. As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, sex was the only way I knew how to engage with a male for a very long time. I also started at 14. It was more of a compulsion than any real desire on my part. I didn't know how to be any other way, and I didn't know how to say no to doing things I didn't want because I had been groomed from the time that I was very small not to have sexual boundaries. I actually used to think it was weird when a guy didn't want sex, like there was something wrong with me. Now I am aware of that and working through these issues, but at 14 I was probably a lot like this girl.
Your children have grown up in an alcoholic home. That does a lot of damage as well. Doesn't it make sense that two broken souls seek one another out to try and make themselves whole with a relationship? That's almost the basis for this entire forum, really.
No real advice here, just another perspective. Good luck.

MissFixit

HI,

I don't think the lax dad is unique to A's. THe majority of my friends with kids divide the duties with kids so that the mom is the boss and the dad is the fun guy. Don't know figures, but in my neck of the woods...probably around 80% of the moms are the disciplinarian while the dad is their friend. The men are just grown children themselves, but your area might be different. Anyway, I wouldn't blame alcoholism for that one, just you husband's personality.

I waited until I was 18 and in college to have sex, but MOST/MANY/almost ALL my friends did it in high school. My best friend was the daughter of a respected minister and she did it at 15? Her mom got her protection and she made all A's, is a doctor now. I don't know. I grew up in a small southern city and although people talk the talk and made good grades, went to college, went to church and were pretty nice people...most were drinking, drugging and sexually active from about 14-15 onward. They just kept it on the low down.

I would promote abstinence as a ideal, but maybe talk realistically about pregnancy and std's. Get him and his brothers condoms. I know you hate it. I would too. Better to be safe and hate it, than sorry.

Hugs to you

BlueSkies1

Parents stopping young hormonal kids from having sex has never happened in the history of mankind.
I understand what you are saying about your husband, but I think the talk needs not to happen with him, but with your son.
How about renting one of those crying fake babies and making him take care of it for a month?

Thumper

I have not had time to read the thread and don't want to forget so I'm going to reply so I have the reminder. So selfish - sorry.

I don't have advice - some commiseration though. I haven't come into the girlfriend issue yet (but will soon - I have a 13yo and 15yo!). I have asked my ex to talk with his boys about birds and the bees stuff and he won't do it. I'm not even a tiny bit surprised by that. I'm divorced though and he lives far away. I'm sure if he was close or if I was still married I'd be extremely frustrated too.

Katchie

Thank you for all the advice. I've taken every bit and will apply it the best way I can. I have spent the larger portion of the morning writing the girl back. I will hand the letter over to her mother after school. I do not feel good giving it directly to her since she isn't my child and is still a minor. I put a little message in it to her parents as well. I just cannot imagine a mother and father not protecting their daughter better than this. I know there shouldn't be a standard difference between boys and girls, but there is and I find their behaviour handling this unfathomable from a parental perspective.

I'm admonishing them from a Christian stand point since her family and ours are of that faith. I am not forbidding them to see one another, but they do have some work to do before I will ok anything more than their contact at school. Integrity is a must. I don't think that's asking too much. I don't appreciate being lied to and I don't appreciate pictures being sent to my son that could ruin him for a lifetime. I will not tolerate it, sucky AH or no sucky AH. My son will know that if he gets this girl pregnant, he will not be shirking his responsibility. I have the example of another home school family with a daughter who was quite pushy of the limits until she became pregnant. Bad deal, but I'll share their story with my son. One can sure make things harder on themselves than they have to and it sure seems my son and this girl are heck bent on making their life hard.

AH says he will back me up...he promises. Yeah, well..I'll believe it when I see it.
This will give me a new topic to share with my therapist. I may very well send my son to see her. She had given me a sheet of paper outlining the family roles of an alcoholic household. My son could be fulfilling the roll of the rebel. I don't know. I'm just so p*ssed to think some things/troubles (I know not all) could be avoided if it wasn't for the presence of alcohol. With kids there will be issues, but dang it...it could be a little easier, but AH's problem has only compounded them over the years. Ok..Im gluing my hair back to my head now..

Thumper

If she is sending him nude pictures I would take his phone and/or block picture texts. Lots of ways to get pictures other than text message. There are indeed very serious consequences to having nude pictures of underage girls on your phone - even if that girl is your girlfriend and you are underage yourself. If he takes that phone to school - the consequences go way up. If he shares that picture with someone - he is distributing child pornography. It is so easy for our boys/children to fall into quick and life altering traps when instantaneous technology combines with impulsive natures.

OK - off to read the thread.

MissFixit

Oh Katchie,

A fifteen year old boy wanting to get busy with a 14 year old girl doesn't have anything to do with alcoholism. I want to give you a great big hug b/c I can feel your pain and anger.

I might be reading this all wrong, but I see myself in your writing. I too wanted things/life/family a certain way. I worked hard to get it that way. The problem was that everybody else had their own way too. I could not control everybody or make them do what I wanted.

Your boy has older brothers as examples as well as his dad. As long as you give him all the information about what has been listed above and try to be a place for him to discuss honestly how he feels, that is about all that you can do. You run the risk of a romeo and juliet situation if you make her out to be the bad guy. Your son has to figure girls out on his own. I bet if you establish yourself as someone he can talk to about ANYTHING, you can have more influence on him. It might not be your ideal situation, but times are a changing, ya know. What if you tried to embrace this girl? If she is important to your son right now, then you get to know her one on one? Is that too weird?