Originally Posted by redatlanta

Is your wife a SAHM or does she work?

You can do this. Make plans for the weekend. Tomorrow is Saturday so aren't you taking care of the kids? Would it be possible to keep the kids at the hotel on Saturday night?

I suppose you could suggest the nesting thing if you all are going forward with the separation. I did know one couple that did that during their horrifically long divorce. They both hated it your experience may be different of course.

Originally Posted by DocSobrietist

One of the things another group member brought up to me (this particular member had 6 years sober, was also divorced himself, is amicable and friends with his ex-wife) was - and this had never occurred to me before - he asked me, "why is it you're supposed to move out when your wife asks for a separation"?

That sort of stopped me in my tracks, I was floored.

I have 11+ months sober now. If my wife had asked me to move out a 11 months ago, really, there's no argument - everyone in the world would understand why she would be asking, and I would have to say yes, and yes, I would have done it. But I've been at this sobriety thing for 11 months now, guns blazing, typically multiple meetings per week, and in my opinion, really taking ownership of my program and recovery (I really have - and I feel it too). My wife and I have been having a lot of difficulties of late, particularly the last 6-8 weeks, but I have to ask - at this point, are these problems entirely *my* fault to the point that I should be the one to leave the house, no questions asked? It occurs to me that our problems now are a two-to-tango affair. We both have a part in this.

I mean, would it make any more sense to ask my wife to leave the house? (The answer to that is a resounding NO). She's not entirely at fault here, and neither am I.

So anyways, that point really stopped me in my tracks, and also, I think it's interesting that I never even questioned this - I just unconsciously accepted the premise that morally, I am the one pretty much entirely to blame for my current relationship troubles and so THEREFORE, I should be the one making plans to move out. This is part of my so-called "disease" - accepting that I'm entirely the bad one, that when things go bad in our relationship it's my fault, I need to take the blame because really, I'm the one who made the bad choices. Black-sheep thinking is not uncommon with people with addiction problems is what I've found.

Of course, I am *not*, this coming Monday (our next couples therapy session) going to lead in with, "hey, this isn't my fault this is happening - so why don't you move out?" That would start a fight - last thing I want is another fight with my wife, particularly when we've reached this point. What I will say is, "why should either of us be moving out?" First, there have been no relapses, there is no physical abuse, there is no infidelity (at least, not as far as I know), no betrayals. It's not clear why (or even if) either of us should move out. Our problem is we fight, we're not getting along. Not saying separation is out of the question, but it's hard to argue that either of us clearly should move out based on what's been going on lately.

Also, if one of us moved out, the one who moved out would have to get another place that's at least two bedrooms in size, with extra furniture (e.g., a bunk bed, or two extra beds), and the kids would now be required to schlep their stuff to another house at least two days a week or more depending on the arrangement.

If my wife's goal in asking for a separation is she's just looking for a last-ditch way to continue to work on our marriage (which is possible), I think I'm going to suggest a couple of things. First, I'm going to point out that if we pursued a separation now, this would not be following the "no big relationship changes a year out from sobriety / beginning recovery" guideline (which applies to both of us - even though I don't do 12-step, I definitely subscribe to this).

Second, I'm going to suggest that if separation is something my wife won't back down on, the only kind of arrangement I can accept right now (assuming she still wants to work on reconciling) is something I heard suggested at last night's Lifering meeting - doing a "nesting" arrangement.

In a nutshell, a nesting arrangement is my wife and I find a room somewhere (much cheaper than a condo or a 2 or 3-bedroom place with lots of extra furniture), and we switch off with who is living with the kids. Neither parent moves out - they rotate.

I can see with my wife and I, in the first (say) three months of this we have a strict schedule with who is switching off and gets what days, etc. Date nights would be set, shared family events are set, and 1:1 communication takes place primarily by phone. Perhaps after three months, if things go well (lots of couples therapy takes place in this time), we can start easing up on a night or two. I stay and watch a TV show with her a couple nights a week. We get more face time. AND, if things get dicey between the two of us - for example, of my wife starts getting into her verbal nastiness / stonewalling thing because that's what she does - then I have an escape hatch that protects me emotionally and morally (doesn't make me the bad guy by pushing her when she she can't talk), and gives her space to breathe and collect herself. In other words, if we fight, and say my wife starts name calling, I don't sit and take it - I have an escape hatch, I get to raise my hand and say "this is not right what you're saying to me - I'm leaving now."

Also, again, with the nesting agreement, I'm not moving out (making me the bad guy and her the aggrieved party - I'm frankly *sick* of that dynamic), it's both of us flexing to try something different to make the marriage work.

Also, finally, if my wife declines this nesting arrangement suggestion - I think this will give me a lot of information as to where her head is as far as reconciliation goes - I think this will help to answer whether she wants to work on the marriage, or if she's already got a foot out the door. Which is possible. As you've seen from my other posts, she and I may have been through too much at this point for us to go back to the drawing board yet again. I'm beginning to mentally prepare for that.

What do people think?

-DrS

Originally Posted by Fathom

Hi DrS,


I recognized after the first month that I was the angriest I have ever been in my life. I didn't feel like myself at all and didn't know how to control it. I needed space from him just so my anger could stop being so triggered. It took months of individual therapy before I could calmly and rationally address my feelings. At that point, my issues had almost nothing to do with his current behavior. It was all me. On the other hand, he just could not accept that i needed the space for me. He felt like I was continuing to punish him, or I was abandoning him, or I was surely looking into a new relationship. No matter how I explained it, he could not accept that there was nothing he could do to speed up my recovery other than to just let me do it on my own. Honestly, his insistence that he be a part of my recovery and his judgement of my recovery was like a scab that he was constantly picking at. He had so often before belittled and ignored my needs when he had been drinking, that his sober behavior felt like more of the same. It reinforced my disbelief in his recovery. Yes, I recognize all of this disfunction, all of this crossing over to the other's side of the street. But that's what happens in early recovery, isn't it.