julesnpurls

Hi - I'm pretty new - posted a couple times been reading every day...

I went to an al-anon meeting the other night and received a newcomer packet - some pamphlets about getting started, etc...

One of these pamphlets is "A Guide for the Family of the Alcoholic". The overall "feeling" I've taken from this information is that the alcoholic cannot get better if the family doesn't get better first. The focus seems to be on how to fix our codependent selves so that the A can get better. I know I'm supposed to take what I want, leave the rest, but I am confused. I want to get better for me and my daughter. Reading here and going to a couple of meetings was the first time I ever felt that I wasn't responsible for his drinking or his recovery or lack thereof. It's the first time it ever occurred to me that I can't fix him, only me.

It has a list of "Don'ts" for families of alcoholics. These are a couple of them.

5. Don't allow the alcoholic to lie to you and accept it for the truth for in doing so you encourage this process. The truth is often painful, get at it.

6. Don't let the alcoholic outsmart you for this teaches him to avoid responsibility and lose respect for you at the same time.

I'm confused because getting at the truth when he lies to me is a lot of work. Obsessive, codependent work, involving things such as checking his cell phone, calling a bar to see if he's there, looking for clues as to how much he actually drank ... and on and on. And if I had a nickle for all the crazy things I've done so as not to be "outsmarted" by my AH, I'd be living on my own tropical island getting an unhealthy fabulous tan.

Is there a way to do the above without getting into the fray? Is this something that I should work on? I could use some advice since I'm trying to master Step 1. It feels like such a contradiction to what I've been trying to do.

I don't know why this felt so personal to me. I think it's because I felt such relief at letting go of all his/our garbage. It's also possible that I'm obsessing over and picking apart (please feel free to say so) something other than his drinking now - at least it's all about me.

Gabe

And I would be living on the island directly south of you.
I've never seen the pamphlet you're talking about. It's been my experience that you can't get the truth out of an active alcoholic. They aren't dealing in honesty, only in deceit. And digging around in their mess to try and figure out what they're really doing doesn't get you anywhere.
"The alcoholic can't get better if the family doesn't get better first."
Ooo, I don't like that one.
The alcoholic will only get better when the alcoholic decides to.
Does the family need recovery? Oh yeah. But the alcoholic isn't going to spring into action if the family seeks help.
These are independent roads of recovery, one doesn't come from another.

bookworm

Hi julesanpurls
I'm not familiar with the pamphlet you have - I've just been looking through my own newcomer's pack - I will tell you that just because you or the family of the alcoholic can overcome codie tendencies does most definitely not guarantee that the alcoholic will step onto the path of recovery as Gabe has said. Al-Anon is NOT about making the alcoholic stop drinking...it is about helping those affected by it cope and find serenity whether the alcoholic is drinking or not and whether they decide to stay with the alcoholic or not.

One of the pamphlets I did receive is called "So You Love an Alcoholic" - in it there are a list of "Don'ts" which really helped me on my way (I did all the don'ts before I realised I'd get nowhere with it!!)

-Don't treat the alcoholic like a child; you wouldn't if s/he was suffering from some other disease
- Don't check up to see how much the alcoholic is drinking
- Don't search for hidden liquor
- Don't pour liquor away; the alcoholic always finds ways to get more
- Don't nag the alcoholic about the drinking. And never argue while s/he is under the influence of alcohol
- Don't preach, reproach, scold or enter into quarrels

I have tried to follow this advice and even succeeded some of the time (Yay!) and all of a sudden things are a bit more peaceful. Hope you're feeling a bit less confused - we're all in a pretty confusing and maybe even crazy situation or at least we've been there. Keep going to your meetings and reading the lit. and as you say, just take what you need and take it one day at a time, one step at a time.
HugZ
Sandra

JT

I am going to have to go through my stuff and see if I can find that...the title sounds familiar but the "don't's" you listed don't.

All I can say about not allowing them to lie or outsmart you is to trust your intuition and not accept as truth something you believe is not.

Also there is a fine line between getting better for yourself and getting better to improve the overall situation. Action always causes a reaction and in my case my relationship with my husband improved as I got healthier. He did not, however, stop drinking. And through the years he has grown as a result of my recovery. Not so with my son.

I believe it AS important for the family to get healthy and in a lot of ways it is true that it promotes the alcoholic following the same path. I also believe that it would be more difficult for an alcoholic in recovery if the family stayed sick. But it is important to note that each person's recovery is independent. We can't do it so they will get sober...we have to do it for ourselves. The fact that they may follow just happens to be one of the miracles.

JT

mo

Hi Everybody

The pamphlet is "A Guide for the Family of the Alcoholic" a conference approved piece of literature from the Alanon Family Groups. I will type pages 14-15 which include the quotes discussed.

These are several rules of thumb which may be observed.

1. Learn all the facts and put them to work in your own life. (Don't start with the alcoholic.)
2. Attend Alanon meetings, AA meetings and if possible to to a mental health clinic, alcoholism information center or to a competent counselor or minister who has experience in the field.
3. Remember you are emotionally involved. Changing your attitude and approach to the problem can speed up recovery.
4. Encourage all beneficial activities of the alcoholic and cooperate in making them possible.
5. Learn that love cannot exist without compassion, discipline and justice, and to accept love or give it without these qualities is to destroy it eventually.

It is easier to find a list of don'ts in dealing with alcoholics for it is easier to understand why you fail than to know why you succeed. The follwing list is not inclusive but it makes a good beginning.

1. Don't lecture, moralize, scold, blame, threaten, argue when drunk or sober, pour out liquor, lose your temper or cover up consequences of drinking. You may feel better but the situation will be worse.
2. Don't lose your temper and thereby destroy yourself and any possibility of help.
3. Don't allow your anxiety to compel you to do for alcoholics what they must do for themselves.
4. Don't accept promises, for this is just a method of postponing pain. In the same way don't keep switching agreements. If an agreement is made stick to it.
5. Don't allow the alcoholic to lie to you and accept it for the truth for in so doing you encourage this process. The truth is often painful, but get at it.
6. Don't let the alcoholic outsmart you for this teaches him to avoid responsibility and lose respect for you at the same time.
7. Don't let the alcoholic exploit you or take advantage of you for in so doing you become an accomplice in the evasion of responsibility.
8. Don't try to follow this as a rule book. It is simply a "guide" to be used with intelligence and evaluation. Attend Alanon meetings and if you feel the need, you can also seek good professional help. You may find you nee d this help as well as the alcoholic.
9. Don't put off facing the reality that alcoholism is a progressive illnes that gets inceasingly worse as drinking continues. Start now to learn, to understand and to plan for recovery. To do nothing is the worst choice you can make.
Many family members no longer live with an alcoholic but feel their lives have been deeply affected by the disease or their family's reactions to it. THey find their adult lives have become unmanageable because of the heavy emotional involvement they continue to have with the past. they too have found comfort and recovery in Alanon. ALanon Family Group


From my perspective it is about setting limits or having boundaries. Putting the emphasis on what YOU are willing to do or accept. I know if I am honest with myself I have chosen to accept the lie rather than have an angry confrontation or have to justify why I feel like I do. It all takes alot of energy to be real. .I for one have a long way to go.

I broke a boundary a few weeks ago when I gave my adult daughter money for a room. My boundary was never ever give an addict money. When she took off that same night on a bus to Boston I learned a valuable lesson about boundaries.

Blessings Mo

Morning Glory

Thank you Mo. I'm printing this one.

Some lessons we learn with a mental light bulb and some we learn through hard knock experience.

Hind sight is always easier than when we are in the middle with all the emotions screaming at us. I refused to give my son money one time and he still managed to hitch hike a couple of thousand miles away and land in jail there. When he makes his mind up there is no stopping him.

I will continue to pray for your daughter.


Hugs,
MG

freya

Read number 8 very carefully.

Unfortuantely, this is the way most of the very best "rules" in life work -- they are really guidelines, not hard-and-fast rules. In my experience the important thing in figuring out how to "follow" any rules is to try to understand what the spirit/intent behind the rule is and focus on that. That way, even when you get into a situation where the literal, hard-and-fast interpretation of the rule clearly doesn't work, you can still figure out what to do by looking for the solution that comes closest to honoring the spirit of the rule.

To "reduce" al anon to the simplest of terms, it is about taking care of yourself and getting what you need, regardless of what the A chooses or doesn't choose to do. So, as regards accepting, believing and/or allowing yourself to be lied to, what behavior and action on your part is best going to allow you to take care of yourself and get your needs met?

During the recent period when my A (who has been sober for 20+ years started up with another addiction) my personal experience was that when I spent my time trying to figure out and catch every single lie my A might tell me and trying to keep tabs on what she was doing with whom and when so that I would "know" the truth, I was really just making myself crazy. Allso I became so obsessed that I didn't have any time or energy to devote to taking care of me or seeing to it that my needs were met (or even keeping in touch with what my needs were). When I behave like that, I let it be all about her -- and in some sick sense, this feeds into her disease perfectly.

So, I choose not to do that.

This doesn't mean that I accept being lied to, that I ignore lies, that I collude in lies, or that I cover up lies. In fact, I have now set some very strict boundaries with my A around lying -- and as painful as it could be for both of us if I have to enforce those boundaries, I have every intention of doing so should the need arise. But I am not out there 24/7 making myself crazy, wasting my time and energy, and ruining what good time we might have together trying to ferret out lies that may or may not be there.

That's just my take on it and what works for me right now -- trust yourself, your higher power and time and you will figure out what works for you. Good luck -- freya

Dazimae

Don't treat the alcoholic like a child; you wouldn't if s/he was suffering from some other disease
- Don't check up to see how much the alcoholic is drinking
- Don't search for hidden liquor
- Don't pour liquor away; the alcoholic always finds ways to get more
- Don't nag the alcoholic about the drinking. And never argue while s/he is under the influence of alcohol
- Don't preach, reproach, scold or enter into quarrels

I have learned the more I searched,poured out, snuck to find the more I got sick!!
in my mind 1 is to many way to many.