chicory

thank you , I love these cyber hugs. Good to know that stubborn headed people can recover , Amy.

love to all.

chicory

I get confused here. I hear some members, including recovering A/Addicts, say that being homeless never helped them to quit. That consequences never worked. That being homeless can actually hurt them. That they need compassion and shelters help keep them safe.

Then, other recovering members say, the active A should be put out of your home, so they can suffer consequences.

I suppose that putting our out of control alcoholic/addict out is for our own benefit, as well as probably more a/addicts are helped by consequences , than are not helped by them.

chicory

I have noticed that when son gets sober-i.e. runs out of money- he begins different things. first, he did a little smidgeon of cleaning . then begins coming out of his room , and today is sounding very unhappy. talking about so and so has a pizza place, but no one is hiring right now... then something about how miserable isolation is. it is self inflicted. all of this.

When he does this, I do not know what to say. I no longer want to encourage him to work-its a waste of time, only to work a week, get paid and call of/quit/get let go.

I would love to encourage him, but I know that unless he changes, it will always end the same way. He is miserable, and wanting to vent about it. I really don't want to listen to it anymore. He and I are on different planets, and it always ends up in a fight. He getting all negative, poor him, economy, etc. things that I know are not the real problem. but he won't agree.

Perhaps its better to say nothing. Read some more "Codependent NO More". go about my business. I don't think I should bother saying anything, or suggesting he try , because unless he sees his drinking ruining his life, nothing will change. he is angry and bitter, and I just pray that it is a little bit at his self, you know?

Yesterday, I met a recovering heroin addict. A big guy, full of joy, buying his girl flowers. He must have wanted to share. He brought up the fact. He had just seen a guy caught stealing a chicken dinner and a drink, at my store. He said how it hurt, as he knew how the guy felt. He said he had been there once, been a heroin addict, drug user. how he had been arrested for theft. how he did some of the things he did.

But he got tears in his eyes, as he mentioned that he was going to meet his pastor , in the town square on Saturday, to preach to the lost/addicts in this town(there are many heroin users here). He said that he would have a year, on Saturday, of recovery from drugs/alcohol. It touched me deeply and I told him I was so happy for him, that he is choosing life.

He said that he has lived more in this last year than he had in the last ten. That he never thought life could be so good. and that life IS good.

We talked about my son, for a few minutes. he said his parents never gave up on him. He said that homelessness would put him in more danger than he is in. and to pray for my son, and not stop.

chicory

Now he is pacing around, all nervous, and anxiety again. it makes me nervous.
he wants to talk about how his sister making 80 grand a year(hub is pharmacist) and resentful comments about her not understanding.

It is so unhealthy, how he wants to vent, and there is no reasoning with him. Is this a dry drunk? He wants to blame everything wrong in his life on the economy. On not having enough help. On no one can tell him where to find work. That one always gets me-why should anyone have to tell him?

He spends more time doing computer stuff, gaming, forums, friends, movies, etc. He is reclusive and always was.

I get very nervous when he gets all anxious, and is in withdrawals from drinking.

Live

((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))

I hope you can find something peaceful for you to do. or even somewhere to go.

Hevyn

Chic - He sounds very much like my son, but mine doesn't drink or drug. He blames it all on depression (he sees a therapist, but with no improvement yet). Mine claims he fell through the cracks at school, never felt a part of anything - and yes, the economy is at fault, the record/book store he managed closed. An endless stream of excuses & reasons why.

I'm at a loss also Chic.

I did like the story of the recovering heroin addict - very uplifting - things can change. Our guys need to want to rise up out of their misery.

chicory

Thanks Hevyn.

It is so hard, when you want to be supportive, but they will not reason. We just had a 'talk', and he is so upset. I told him that he needs to stop and see that drinking is going to ruin his life. I could see in his face that he knows the truth. even though he denies and his excuses cover all bases. but I saw in his face that he was ashamed, for an instant.

I am sorry about your son. It is wonderful though that he sees a therapist, even if there has been no obvious improvement. surely he must get some sort of reality lessons from it?

chicory

Thanks Live, didn;t see you up there

I just told him that it was no use to talk as we disagree. I am just ignorant of what to do. I need that Al-anon meeting, but there seem to be none in my area in the evenings. I work 40 hours. might have to see what is available during the day on my days off.
hugs.

Fandy

Chic, I don't think there is anything you need to do. It is his issue, you can't fix him...you have probably tried to hear and get him help 100x.
Now if it were ME I would be in the pissedoff stage...
You work hard, you clean, pay bills, your house SHOULD be your sanctuary and he is pooping it up with his drinking/withdrawal lather rinse repeat act. And I would tell him that.
We all have our saturation point...
Ask yourself what right does he have to rant and rave and upset you when YOU give him a decent place to live, food internet heat AC, etc.
Get angry? No but state the facts to him, he is all about him, he is not an invalid, he can at least be grateful and respect the fact that his mama wants her own life.
Shall I get the slapomatic? Big hugs for you and fresh latte this early morning

chicory

Fandy, I love you. Bring the slap-o-matic, oh, but don't spill the latte, please..mmmm, I need it this morning.

Will pm you later. I fear people get tired of hearing my whinings..lol.

Thank you for the latte... it is comforting.

Fandy

You can pm or email of course any time, but no one is tired of hearing you here. And many heads have good thoughts and ideas.
Patience is not my best area, I'm more patient to a certain point, then I lose my temper and say what bothers me, draw my line in the sand and try to move on..
You've heard me whine about my daughter for months too...

Hopeworks

Chic, Please don't stop posting on this thread and no one gets tired of your "whining" because you are helping us...really. You see, we were you and doing the same exact things you are doing with your A but we did what you are doing now... reaching out and every time you read a post or someone shares a story of their own you see a things a with a little different perspective... a little more clarity on your own situation.

I call it getting a "new pair of glasses" which is an AA term and even a book by that name.

Having read the thread there are a couple of things I see. One: I think you are ready for a new pair of glasses and realize that "nothing changes if nothing changes". And of course we all know that alcoholism is progressive so he isn't going to get better or change unless he does something!

What did intrigue me is that when he went to stepmom's and she set clear boundaries he got better! Of course, he knowingly broke a rule and they stuck to their guns and kicked him out. Good for them! Give that boy an inch and the slippery slope is on and its all downhill from there.

I think step mom with a bottle of Clorox in the kitchen might be just what the doctor ordered (not to put it in his food but it should keep him pretty honest in her "program" )... can you get him a second chance?

If that fails then an inpatient program ...maybe faithbased to deal with cost.... might be the ticket.

You need a vacation from all of this. And I second alanon! Really....

My XA was his age and I hovered, helicoptered, bailed him out of his scrapes with the law and KNEW he would die if I put him out of the house. I had to put him out eventually and a funny thing happened. 25 years of insane, blackout alcoholism and he gets himself sober and in recovery with NO HELP from anyone but God.

There is a powerful God and he loves A's who are serious and cry out for help. I think he sends legions of angels for those that are not quacking but are seriously on their knees begging for sobriety.

Legions and legions and all the power in the universe is available for those that want to get dry. My XA has been in over 20 jail cells all alcohol related, given death sentences 4 separate times with BAC over 50%, been chained to hospital beds, been Baker Acted twice, been to countless detoxes and rehabs (I think 7) and never, ever detoxed without a medical detox as he goes into convulsions.

He was a walking dead man I thought. A hopeless alcoholic like the Big Book describes in detail.

So... how did he just quit? No detox? No jail cell? No ME???? All powerful me did not get him sober?

He prayed. And God showed up. And only God can do miracles. We just think we can Lois nailed it. Love is not enough.

They have to "break up" with alcohol for life and mean it. Not just quacking. Not empty promises but a bottom moment of depair at depth and break up with that poison forever.

He is doing great... 2500 miles away. It's a nice distance for me. Got a job within a week of stopping drinking. Never worked when with me...too busy in jail, rehabs and hospitals! LOL.

Sometimes our "help" and "saving them from death" is killing them slowly. And please do not think I am suggesting that you are doing anything wrong or feel guilty in any way. I am telling this to set you free as you are not God and only God can help if he wants to quit.

But if he doesn't want to quit and just wants to drink and watch porn and bitch about politics and the universe do you want a life sentence of THAT? You want to be doing this in 10 years? 20 years? You can't even have friends over????

Do you want to sacrifice your life and happiness so he can drink himself to death and torture you watching?

These are just my thoughts and impressions and take what you want and leave the rest. I did the same thing you are doing for YEARS and I feel your pain darling.

I am praying for you and take your time...there is no rush to make decisions or changes. You will know as you keep on your own journey...you will be set free!

chicory

thank you , so much, ladies. It is good to be heard, and understood.

Stepmom will not give second chance. his dad isn't in the best of health, and honestly, does not need this stress.... who does?

I will be back later. and I am grateful to SR. I think God guided me here, because I was at a point back then, when I was so depressed and losing my mind.

I look forward to change. And pray that it is shown to me what to do. I am not totally against putting him out, if it is what will help him. Mental issues are what worry me. I am going to insist he get counsel, as he promised when he first moved in here.

hugs
chicory

Fandy

He promised and did not follow through...this can be your boundary and starting point? He does it or you will have to state a firm line and not be manipulated....
Removing internet while keeping your own might be an incentive...you can do this through a smart phone and tablet, ask Amy, she paying a low rate.

chicory

I may look into that. that is one thing that I could do, since he did agree to that when he came here; he was a basket case.

Last night, I knew I was feeling that old feeling one gets when their alcoholic 'explodes', and he did keep goading me, into talking, ranting, in his frustration. finally he kicked the cats water bowl, shattering it. After that, remorse , and we talked , argued about alcoholism. I sent him the sticky here, Under The INfluence, excertps. we talked about that.
I dont know if he acknowledges his patterns or not.

I know others have felt the same. my case is not unique, I have learned that here. He does need counsel, aside from not drinking. that has been proven.

I guess playing mommy and taking away internet may be all I can do, as I don't want to send him out to the streets. he has no car, no friends in this town, none that he has not burned bridges with. he would be homeless, and being homeless does not cure mental issues,, to the contrary. We have plenty of people sleeping under the big bridge in town, to prove it.

Thank you for your replies.
hugs,
chicory

Mango blast

chicory,

The really good thing is, no decisions need to be made today. One day at a time. As we work on ourselves, things become clearer.

How far away is the nearest evening Alanon meeting? Ask a friend to go with you and drive. This reaching out thing is still hard for me, but at first it was almost immobilizing. Funny thing is, each time I do it, I am so proud of myself! The accomplishment of setting out what I planned on doing is very rewarding. It often takes multiple phone calls to many people I haven't talked to in ages, leaving voice mails, etc. It takes me a while to figure out who to call and what to say -- all great exercises for my weary brain. When I hit dead-ends, those become time to brain storm and figure out what else might work. I may not follow through on things I think of, but coming up with options for myself is very worthwhile.

chicory

I appreciate that, ktf.

The nearest one is during my work day, and not terribly far, but not a good time. there used to be one about 10 miles away, in evening. I cannot find that one. seems these meetings close , I guess due to not enough attendance. if they were advertised I wonder if more would take advantage of them? Heaven knows, there are enough people who need them.
there was one in my town, but thank goodness it closed. I never saw such dysfunction. it made me leave there thinking I did not have any real problems. one guy would talk for at least 20 minutes each night, saying the same things over and over, ,about an EX wife! over and done , but could not let go. poor guy. then another lady who did the same thing. the ones who seemed to have some real good stuff to share , never got to.

I wish I could find a way to begin a meeting. It would be cool to start one. but I guess there must be some sort of planning and leadership, to do it.

This weary brain needs some rejuvenation.

I get the feeling proud though, when we do something we have resisted, or feared. makes you think "what else could I accomplish in this world?" maybe some really good stuff.

thanks so much ktf. for being here, and caring.

hugs
chicory

Fandy

Chic he kicked and shattered the cats waterdish and you say it is out of frustration? It s o unds like you are excusing his behavior. He is not acting like an *adult*, he is acting like an alcoholic in withdrawal.
I fear that he may do more harm as he did to the door last year.
As much as you dislike confrontation, I think it is time to draw a line in the sand...your house, you pay the bills, your rules.
Take a ride over to the big Verizon store and tell them what you need, you can stay on the net with a low price and a tablet ( post from bed like me, lol)...at least the information will arm you with an action plan.
You can give fair notice and he will try to call your bluff, but bullsh.. is bullsh...His behavior is not acceptable, he can learn control. Professional help will also give him something else to focus on.

Dee74

Violence in your house, whether it be against inanimate objects or not, worries me Chic.

Please take steps to make yourself safe and, if you haven't already, take a wander through the stickys and educate yourself on violent situations and how you might handle them.

It may be you'll never have to use the information - and I hope not - but it makes sense to me to cover all scenarios.

Be safe, ok?

D

chicory

You are right Fandy. and I just don't know what to call it, aside from a-ho1e ness.
I do not know enough about alcoholism to call it, for sure. but withdrawal makes sense.

I have no trouble calling the cops. I know he loves me, he is just miserable.
He can be such a jerk.

he went crazy trying to clean it up. I did most of it, because he would not get the glass up totally, with his add or anxiety, or withdrawal.

Thanks Dee, I will look at those . I grew up in a home where people threw things, and then you pretended it didn;t happen. Like the Easter my dad threw the bowl holding our pretty easter eggs against the wall. He pretty much ruined every holiday.

I have been known to kick things in great anger, and threw a glass once, when husband pushed me down.
I think my family and I are totally f-d up, sometimes.