bigsombrero

Hi guys,

My dad's not an alcoholic, but you all seem to have a really solid grip on what it means to be a co-dependent and I thought I might reach out.

My father loves me, and I suppose I love him too. But honestly he's insensitive, rude, crass and sometimes downright mean - especially to his family. He's always acted as if he's been "wronged" by us somehow, and has spent his life getting back at us by hurting us when we're most vulnerable, as if we deserve it.

I spent an hour writing down all the mean and hurtful things he's done since I was 10 years old...but I deleted it. Because you guys know how it goes. Let me be clear: he's never physically harmed me or anyone else. But he's a manipulative, cruel person who is nearly impossible to be around. My mom divorced him. My sister has washed her hands of him.

Alas, I seem to have become tied up on my dad's side through it all. I've spent the better part of the last 20 years trying to defend my father to the rest of my family. I've become his defacto "PR agent" and whenever he acts like an as$shole, I jump up to defend him. Every time he ditches his own sister, daughter or his grandson, every time he crashes a wedding, every time he offends his nieces and nephews, I'm the one who has to say "I'm sorry, he didn't mean it".

The other day it was announced that my grandmother (his mother) had a stroke and would likely die within a few days. While the entire family held vigil at her bedside and cried, my father sent out an e-mail to everyone gleefully talking about how much money he'd save on her apartment costs (it was HER money, not his). This is very typical behavior. He does this for shock value, and to hurt people. When confronted, he plays the victim role and paints us all as monsters. It's borderline insanity. Any chance he gets, he seems to want to be hurtful - but yet plays dumb when confronted.

Folks, I'm done trying to clean up my dad's mess. I'm over it. I know I didn't cause it, and I can't cure it. So what can I do here to distance myself? I want OUT of this role. The funeral will be in a few weeks and I'm already getting stressed out and getting on my referee uniform. I'm just shy of 2 years sober and can't handle too much drama in my life right now. I just have to get out of this circle.

Mango blast

First off, congratulations on your sobriety! Part of me wonders how you did this with all the drama of your dad, but maybe you needed to get to this point in your recovery first in order to change these dynamics. It's great that you're aware of what you need and are prioritizing that!

I'm so sorry about your grandmother's passing, and also your father's thoughtless and cruel behavior.

Do you have a therapist or counselor? If you've been going to the same one, maybe switch up to a new one who can help with this. If you don't have one, this would be a great time to reach out for some extra support in helping to figure this out and guide you through this.

ladyscribbler

Congrats on your sobriety. Good for you. And sorry to hear about your grandma.
So your dad...sounds like he has some mental illness or personality disorder going on, or maybe he's just a pure-d @$$hole, it happens.
My mom suffers from paranoid schizophrenia, and I know it's hard to detach from a parent, especially when you have a relationship where you are very enmeshed. But for the sake of your sobriety, that may be the best thing so that you can spend the time you need to focus on your recovery. He will probably never change.
What I do with my mom is limited contact. If she's OK and not in Crazytown (that's what we call it when she has an acute psychotic episode) we talk and spend time together with my sons. If she's psychotic, no contact. Maybe try something like that with your dad. When he has an @$$hole attack, no contact.
Also remember that his behavior is not a reflection of you, however much you feel that it is. Your job is not to defend him or make excuses for his bad behavior. He's an adult, chronologically, at least, and you don't need that kind of stress when you're trying to stay sober.

bigsombrero

Thanks guys - I did make several calls today to get a psychiatrist. I haven't had health insurance for a while, and I need to start seeing a shrink for my anxiety anyway. I didn't find one (this was all done at work so it was tricky) but at least I have a better knowledge of how my health plan works and how I can find providers. I'm thankful this situation at least got the ball rolling there. If we don't take action, we can't expect a change. I'm just glad I was able to share this with you, I'd been really frustrated and just needed to vent. It was nice to see you guys respond, thanks again.

Mango blast

I'm also looking for a therapist. I thought I'd found one, but she has a full schedule and isn't taking new clients. She gave me the names and numbers of several Licensed Addiction Counselors. Even though we had good experiences with several at rehab, I'd prefer someone who understands the anxiety end of things well from another perspective, without the use of drugs. The whole Psychiatrist, Psychologist, Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor (LCPC), and Licensed Addiction Counselor (LAC) labels start to get confusing to me. Since psychiatrists are the only ones who can write medical prescriptions, I've actually been shying away from them. So far there's a couple psychologists and LCPC's I'm interested in, but by the time I got my nerve up to call today (it takes me a while), the offices were closed for the day.

Good for you for making those calls! Where you able to get much info by phone? I'll be trying again tomorrow.

I haven't explored this site a lot yet: www.outofthefog.net, but have found the information interesting so far. My husband has very many characteristics of Avoidant Personality Disorder. He's always been this way, long before the alcoholism. He seemed open to therapy earlier this week, but may be changing his mind. I figure I might as well find a therapist who has experience with these traits as they've been effecting me for our whole marriage. Instead of being dragged into that yoyo-ing, I need to change myself and stop reacting to how he is.

redatlanta

Here is where you start - yes, he did mean it. This is a person who likes to hurt other people. He does so passive aggressively - I bet these are his favorite lines "can't you take a joke"? "I didn't mean it like that", "I didn't say that", "That's not what I meant", "why is everyone mad at me"? and the list can go on.

I despise this type of person.

Put some thought into WHY you defend him. Is it to keep the peace? Is it because as his child it embarrasses you and you want to try and save face?

I would try and stop being around him in as much as I could. Try and stop defending his behavior - he isn't accountable for what he does because he has you taking up for him.

Hard spot to be in when its our parents.

Croissant

Hi bigsombrero...no solutions from me, but boy, can I relate.

I used to have a reasonably ok relationship with my Dad, but firstly, he's become a cranky older man lately...and we just had his wife (my stepmother) pass away.

I have a lot of anger at how he was a passenger during her illness, and now expects everyone to make allowances for his mean, crass or insensitive comments. I've also noticed some manipulation in him as well.

He feels like a stranger to me...and I just find myself avoiding all contact purely so I don't hear a dumba$$ comment that I know is totally something I should ignore.

Well, I really just wanted to demonstrate equal frustration here! You aren't alone!

Sounds like you have some tricky terrain ahead to negotiate....good on you for recognising it and trying to mitigate. I'm trying to remember that people can only hurt me to the extent I let them...his stupid comments based on nothing are not worth my angst. It just hurts though, for sure.

bigsombrero

Yep. He'll say "I don't remember saying that" or he'll deflect criticism to other people. When called out he will just start quoting all the awful things people have said to HIM. He has some specific ones he uses over and over.

Yes, that is exactly why I defend him. Both reasons.

The strange thing is, he can be a very nice and engaging person. But for some reason when any kind of issue arises (family wedding, funeral, Christmas, etc) it's like a switch goes off. He's like Michael Scott (from the tv series "The Office") but without all the funny stuff. Basically anything and everything that's inappropriate, he'll do it.

Some family friends took action yesterday and called him since I refused. They told him that his mother just died in Minnesota, and his sister is up there dealing with it and hurting - so he needs to get his ass off the couch in Florida and fly the heck up to help out. He will be flying up there tonight, so that's good.

I guess the main thing here: I shouldn't worry about it. I shouldn't care where he is, or what he's doing. I shouldn't be getting updates on who has talked to my father, and what his plans are. Getting involved on any level for me is something I would rather avoid. I hope to improve this.

Mango blast

That sounds like he doesn't know how to handle stress and is reacting to that. Does he usually keep his feelings bottled up? If he doesn't know how to relate and deal with his own feelings, the stress can keep building and get worse -- needing his coping mechanism even more.

For my husband, it's having people come and stay with us, going to new places, having to be still with nothing to do, and a bunch of other things - mostly all things that take him out of him comfort zone. Especially one-on-one interactions where he may be judged. In his case, the greater the judgement, the worse the stress, the more the coping mechanism is needed.

bigsombrero

Correct keepingthefaith -

He is missing a gene or something when it comes to dealing with stress. Most people know that when your mother dies, you should fly home and begin to help the family with funeral arrangements. But my father's instincts don't work like that - in fact they work in the exact opposite manner. Unless he is specifically told what he should be doing, he will run amok destroying everything he touches. When my niece died he behaved so boorishly that my sister washed her hands of him.

When my cousin got married last summer, she wanted to spend 10 minutes privately with her mom & dad before she walked down the aisle. Most people wouldn't dream of interrupting that precious moment. My father (who is nothing more than a distant uncle) decided that now would be a good time to drop off his gift to the bride personally. He could not help himself, it was like he just went crazy and could not focus on anything else. It was like he needed air to breathe - interrupting their family moment became his sole focus and he was in a near panic to accomplish that goal. He left the church, went to his trunk, came back in and began pounding on the door. In doing so, he knocked over an old woman in a wheelchair. This buffoonery is maddenning. He simply cannot behave like a normal human being, he does not have the capacity. I'd like to honestly chain him down and tape his mouth shut because that's the only solution. If his mouth is open and he can move around, he will do serious damage. I have always had to be that person to "watch him" like a hawk and try and stop him. And it never works anyway.

Mango blast

It's not that he doesn't have the capacity -- it's that he currently doesn't know any other way to deal with himself. I know that kind of panic of knowing you're doing all the wrong things and not being able to stop yourself. That isn't a missing gene. It's a whole lot of other stuff. Look at it as a disease as much as alcoholism is. The brain is physically different, but can be re-wired. New skills can be learned. If the physical body is out of balance (nutrients, minerals, hormones), that can cause problems also. It takes getting help. For my husband and I, learning to reach out for help has been the hardest step of all.

The main thing is doing for yourself whatever you can. The more I've worked on my own recovery, the more I've been able to find compassion and acceptance for others and myself, flaws and all.

Mango blast

My instinct is it had nothing with trying to hurt others. He wasn't trying to ruin "their family moment". He probably didn't intentionally decide to injure someone in a wheelchair. He was in a panic. There is no way I can describe what this is like. I am so very sorry he is dealing with this. (((hugs to you and him)))

Exactly. That is codependency. Keep in mind that you didn't Cause it, you can't Control it and you can't Cure it. Being aware is being open to healing.
I'd highly recommend Alanon's book One Day at a Time. Insert your dad's problem for "the alcoholic". Maybe even some Alanon meetings if you can find a group that feels right to you. Some are more flexible than others.

bigsombrero

You are right, he does not consciously think: "I want to hurt everyone in the worst way possible" --- but he DOES. And he WILL. And it's the terror/dread of those moments that is paralyzing me as I sit in my kitchen, hundreds of miles and many days away from the situation.

It's a guarantee he will do something terrible just like this at my grandmother's funeral coming up in a few weeks.

I am trying to get out ahead of the storm here and trying to look at how my codependency hurts me so I can avoid having a panic attack at this funeral. I am thankful I posted here to get some "confirmation" that I am indeed behaving in a co-dependent manner, and that I need to work on MYSELF.

Working on my own sobriety in situations like these has been enough of a challenge. I think this is why I am feeling particularly exaspirated with being my father's keeper right now. Thanks again folks!

Refiner

Does he have a superiority complex? He's always right? He's entitled to the things he wants? If so, sounds like he has NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) and uses you and others as his "supply" like a parasite. My sister is text book NPD and I've gone NC (No Contact) with her after our mother died and I don't have to deal with her anymore and she can't use my Mom to get back at me any more. They'll move on to someone else once you go NC. Or you could try out LC (Low Contact). Alcoholics and NPD go hand in hand with a lot of people and causes the same kind of traits. But he's could just be an NPD @$$. Good luck.

Mango blast

It's okay to do anything and everything necessary to protect yourself! You're very right, knowing what's going on doesn't change the fact of it happening and that it's very abusive.

This book has helped me:
Amazon.com: Respect-Me Rules eBook: Shelly Marshall, Michael Marshall: Kindle Store

And this forum and Alanon. Knowing I'm not alone.

Lyssy just posted this link for an online workshop related to the Respect Me Rules book: www.youareatarget.com

Hopefully you can find a good therapist who can help you through this. If you'd like specific ideas for the week and day of the funeral, please do post about that. Easy does it, and one day at a time. (((hugs)))

lillamy

Love is a verb. It's an action verb. It's something you DO. Not a feeling you have. You can feel compassion, connection, responsibility (called for or not), guilt-induced care taking (aka codependency) -- and believe that it's love.

One thing I've heard quite a bit from "double winners" in Al-Anon is that they seem to be excellent at the codependent thing because they've had the experience of being the person nobody likes/loves/understands/cares about. So -- as one of my Alanannies said -- she feels like she can somehow use her experience as an alcoholic to defend other alcoholics (or abusive relatives). I found that fascinating, and understandable.

So, the stuff you've probably heard before: Your father is an adult. You stand in the way of allowing him to realize the full consequences of his behavior. You are not doing him any favors by doing this. You are protecting him from finding out that if he continues behaving the way he is behaving, he will die friendless and alone and bitter and miserable. He still has a chance to come to that insight. But if you keep defending him and taking his side, you're preventing that from happening.

But you knew that already.